I've been thinking about returning to faction warfare, because of these changes. I wont depend on it for pvp, but It will add to the mix. Caldari and Amarr side for sure. Maybe Minmatar.

I wonder if these changes have made farming faction warfare missions difficult?

QCATS, the all time leading private corporation in FW kills, has quadrupled its daily number of kills since the patch. We've had no problems fighting 4 jumps into enemy territory. It seems the increase in pew vastly outweighs the costs in reshipping (so far).

Arguments I am seeing:

Permise 1: CCP made 15 different changes to faction war.

Premise 2: PVP and plexing has increased.

Conclusion: Therefore each and every one of the 15 changes was good and none of them could be bad.



While I agree that premise 1 and 2 are true the logic is horrible.


This is why the idea of lets "wait and see" what happens is illogical. The data won't answer what changes are causeing which results because there are simply too many changes at once. They are essentially confounding variables.

No point. A certain Amarr roleplayer who shall remain nameless but has a last name of "Yoshida" will be bitter about everything associated with FW.

To be fair we'll need to see how long this lasts, but for now the pew is great and I expect lots of players to sign up as FW is reaching some sort of pew pew harmonic convergence.

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

Seems to me that datacore market manipulation by the reduced LP faction would be the way to go. Added bonus if you have ties with invention. But that is just a theory. vOv

Emphasizing that cost associated with not being able to reship is acknowledged. Also emphasizing the cost is less than the benefit of the 14 other things CCP has implemented.

Geez, have some fun and quit nitpicking game design. You have the fights you've always claimed you've wanted for the past 3 years. Enjoy them while you can.

I'm a casual player and even though I'm on the opposing side, I have a similar problem.

This change has focused the war and created front lines where most of the action is.
These front lines can, and will, move. That will create lots of logistic issues, as you point out.
And that's what was needed - an incentive to fight!

Yes, I find myself away from the current front line and will have to deal with that to get fights. And that's just what I'll do.

Both sides will be trying to ship their stuff to (or possibly away from) the front lines, whereever they may be.
And that provides more targets (and a different play style) for everyone.

I just want to emphasize that I am sayin YOU are nitpicking, not the Amarr. There are several Amarr corporations still based in low sec (Kamela, Sahtogas), as well as the hordes of Amarr in Eggelhende. It doesn't look like they will e kicked out any time soon.

Im not sure how Amaar works, but up here in Caldari space I can go into almost any system and get a 3 man fight. If I go into the main system areas yes blobs occur, but I usally go 6-15 jump in fw and always get a fight.

Logistics, shouldve thought about moving your stuff prior patch and if you really dont want to haul. Black Frog 40m

Erm, why can't you (or a fleet mate) fit reps? You don't have to dock up somewhere to repair.

[


That will be one of the balances, I think.
We have lots more plexes to defend, gaining no lp for doing it. Plus putting the lp we do get into upgrades.
You gain lp from the abundance of plexes you have to choose from.

And of course, we all now gain lp from shooting each other. \o/

So your bad planning doesn't make the patch bad it makes your situation bad. Your fault you didnt think about the logistics prior to patch. There is a 2 week long forum post about your view on station lockout. Theres no excuse you can make no saying "I cant get my stuff out" You knew about it and were a big proponent against it.

Do any players based in Kamela and Sahtogas care to respond to this post? How long until you guys think you'll get kicked?

And it seems to me that Eggelhende is a great place to base out of. My corp did so last year and had no trouble reshipping since it's right next to the front lines of the fighting.

Again your poor planning doesnt make the patch crap it makes your planing crap. Its not about liking to haul its about being smart......

Anyway I am not going to keep saying the same thing over and over in reply to your post.

Our stuff is cheaper, but you have the opportunity to get more (spendable) lp, as I posted.

To be honest, you are sounding like you are whining because things changed and you can't carry on the same way you used to.

I just want to emphasize that I am sayin YOU are nitpicking, not the Amarr. There are several Amarr corporations still based in low sec (Kamela, Sahtogas), as well as the hordes of Amarr in Eggelhende. It doesn't look like they will e kicked out any time soon.

From the May 9th Dev Blog:



I wasn't even in FW at the time and I saw this coming.

What part of "No Surrender, No Retreat!" did you not understand?

Take your defeatist attitude somewhere else please.

If we are to prevail, then we should believe it, instead of giving up.
This last week before patch has shown that the Amarr are more than capable of fighting back, despite being horrendously outnumbered. And while you were busy running to the hills with your stuffz I was out there fighting for my home and that of my allies.

I can only hope you find the will to do the same.

- Capitol One

Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple.

Pretty much :this:

I've seen in the last couple of weeks that the Amarrian Faction is quite capable of putting up one hellova fight when it needs to but it suffers from a lot of vocal naysaying and defeatist claptrap. I can only imagine how annoying it would be to try to organize in that environment and be told by one's allies "it can't be done", "its impossible" "no chance!" all the time.
.

FYI, logged in this afternoon... picked up ship in Nenna. Straight away Fight No. 1:
5 Thoraxes in Medium Plex

Then we started moving to Tama . Low and behold, a nano-Zealot wanted to engage on gate in Hikk (under protection of gate guns). (He had a Gila and another buddy who chickened out)

Well, we might as well keep going. A Loki wanted the same sort of protection in Kedama on the Hirri gate:
Loki+Purifier, plus there was another fight we weren't involved in.

After losing drones to gate guns I dock up in Nisuwa and added to the wealth of the excellent fellow in SoTF who sells drones on market, and then head back to Nenna and our boys point a Drake.

We move to Aivonen to run some guys out of a plex, but there's another Drake.

Nonstop action all within an hour. Greatest expansion ever!

I like this idea I heard a couple of nights ago concerning capturing plexes: Must kill all npcs inside a plex to capture it in addition to the timer. Or at least have to kill certain 'triggers.'

-Pro: Station lockout. I hated the whole thing at first, but it does bring more tension to FW, as evidenced by the vastly larger and more heated fights just prior to patch. Additionally it definitely gives that 'supply lines' feel.

My impressions so far have been largely positive.

That being said, I want to say I fundamentally believe Cearain is wrong in his objections.

The station lock out is bringing a front line and concentrating where the fighta are occurring so people can find them. It is also giving some consequences. The "casual" pvper who logs in once a week needs to adjust to base out of high sec. That's a given. If you can't log on/monitor the war zone to see if a system you base in is getting close to flipping, base where it can't flip. Otherwise, you can log in casually, get a few fights and/or run a few plexes (worst case defensive plex to save your system!!!) - this hasn't changed.

Yes, the Amarr are in a tight corner at this point in time. But we CAN fight out of it and push the minnies back IF people log in and fight. Yes Raa fell. It was too far away from 7th fleet to actively defend and that was also possibly the case for the people in Kamela. The strategic objectives will now be more defined around supply routes.

If we have to return to a station we can dock in to reship - it potentially limits your ability to rapidly ship up/ship down. Hence you will potentially stay closer to your systems when offensively plexing.

As for the PvP corps - if you hit those systems hard enough, you will get fights coming to you when they come to chase you out and/or decontest.

It's nice to see someone else understanding the 'bigger picture', even if they are the enemy.
You're right - Amarr can offensive plex all over the place now (possibly with a bit of travel time). You gain LP, take it away from us, and make us defensive plex for which we get nothing and pull us back from the front line. That is the balance.



I totally agree.

Cearain on the other hand, seems to want to have a pile of ships in a station, undock and pvp. Nothing else.
Which is fine. There are places you can do that (RvB comes to mind). FW now has more than that - those that want to will adapt as required.

Raa has no stations for you to have been locked out of. Build a POS..

Mehatoor is high sec next door to Raa - and has a station. The reason Raa was lost was because more Minmatar farmed it than Amarr who thought it was worth defending.

You're going to see tons of systems with no stations flipping because they aren't worth defending. Time is better spent farming offensive plexes elsewhere, or defending important systems like Kamela and Sahtogas.

Really Cearain, sometimes it seems like you don't understand the fundamental concepts involved with playing the FW occupancy game.

I guess I'll take your word for it, but in the end last week I saw one person (Cynthia + her alt) occasionally in Raa whereas I saw 10 to 20 in Kamela and Sahtogas at all times.

Let's see who has more kills, Cynthia or Cearain.....

Cearain

Cynthia

Yup. Seems like Cynthia - a player more interested in plexing (allegedly) - has more kills than a player more interested in fights (allegedly). In the past two weeks, anybody in my corp has been able to get 20 kills in one night.

So wait, do you just have a REALLY limited time to play Cearain? Cause I have less than 2 hours a night, and have only been back on since the 18th from a couple of months of RL stuff. Yet I have more kills than you this month as well? OK, so the carrier wasn't in a plex, but most of the war target kills were in systems with plexes active or on plex gates, or inside the plex themselves. Just sayin.

Garr Earthbender

The reason Raa was lost was it was isolated from the people defending the saht area and trying to push back down that part of the pipe and for whatever reason (since I wasn't in contact with them), the people closer such as kam didn't defend it. I don't know if there are legitimate reasons or not.
Regardless of the fact, saying you don't want to pve for a week around Auga is a strawman argument. Either get yourself to the front line or hit their backyard. Just don't assume they will rush to defend it when occupancy is still well in their favour. When you get it closer to flipping, which shouldn't be that long if you are not contested in the plexes you will find the following
1) Lots of LP ready to go in the FW store when things are in your favour
2) The fights coming to you left right and centre as the blob moves to decontest those systems
3) The militia pilots fighting to save/push back around kam/saht will probably come for the mother of all battles vs the minnies.

Auga is perhaps the key to the fight at the moment - take it and some of those systems and the blob has to be in two places at once...

I do hope that is not the 'official' website of the Amarr player faction? The forums look completely dead

Btw, 3-6 hours per week playing EVE is *very* casual. Most people spend 2+ hours every day mindlessly watching TV, family or no. If you're smart, you have entirely dropped the bad habit of watching TV and spend all the gained time on EVE instead

For what it's worth, it's about the same for me.

It's certainly possible to play that amount and still have fun and be involved with things.

It can also be really frustrating when the hour or so you've got to play ends up with nothing happening. Or joining just after the fleet disbands. But there's not much that can be done about that.

Son, that amarr killboard is about as 'not up to date' and 'broken' as can be and we really can't be bothered to use it because of that simple fact. Iirc it also doesn't recognize alliances in Amarr FW.

You should look up things on eve-kill for a more accurate picture.

This month we went/are going past 2000 kills as a corp/alliance. There has never been this much action.

Oh and i'll rally myself on Lock Out's opinion. CCP dealt a hand - you either play it or you fold.

Some of us, rumor has it, are really good at poker

I assumed we all know by now that eve is far from what you can call "a game for casual players ?"

Also, you can't realistically expect to be rewarded for not playing. While other games reward you for playing with XP , Eve (on the pvp side at least) rewards you with quantity and/or quality of kills. If you are expecting to play 8 hrs/week and get the same results or benefits as the guy playing 8 hrs/day, then you are in for dissapointment.

Yes, FW was designed for casuals, it didn't work because, well ...casuals aren't active enough to provide a good environment, so CCP redesigned it. We like it or not, we have to deal with it, they are not gonna scrap all their investment in developement time/money. Hell, they are not even giving up on that crap inventory because they put development time in to it, allthough that's a far more obvious fiasco.


TL;DR We play the cards we are dealt . CCP dealt some cards, we can either play them or fold and leave the table.

In the current landscape, if you are too casual to risk basing out of saht/kam because you don't think we can hold them, base out of Egg, plex/mission/pvp behind the enemy lines and enjoy your couple of hours here and there.

There may be VERY MINOR inconviences for the casual pvp'er and the low sec station camper, but the benefits to everybody else (MASSIVE AMOUNTS of PVP) has been well worth it, IMO.

Sorry you guys had to take it on the chin. Hopefully CCP will implement a "kill all rats in plexes" requirement so you won't be able to complain about Occupancy Warfare any longer (not that you ever participated in it anyways) either.

What makes you think it will make a difference this time around? We have been feeding them "live data" since Empyrean Age was launched and have prior to this fiasco had negligible improvements made.
They claim that all is well and they are focusing on spaceships again .. but what good does that do when fixing what has grown into a fairly large niche "end-game" with no clue as to how it works (when it works) and what makes the participants tick?

They dropped the ball years ago and in their fervour to make amends after the ridiculous Jita-statue emo-rage debacle picked up the nearest ball-shaped item and ran with it .. problem is that item was giant round'ish turd.

Station lock out is absolutely critical to maintain the current state of constant pvp that is going on in FW. Right now Lamaa is averaging around 70% contested and I would assume that it will take a great effort for us in the Minmitar militia to hold onto it.
...

Ignorance is bliss. Raa has no stations, and there's a high sec station next door to Raa that could have been used.

Bottom line: Amarr don't have the personnel right now to spend defending a non-contiguous system (not in the Kamela/Sahtogas pipe) like Raa.

Raa fell because Minnies timed it right (later USTZ) in which they have a significant advantage with Late Night Alliance. As teamwork improves between the Amarr militia I think you will see them able to hold strategic systems while taking some systems during EUTZ. At this time we simply do not have the pilots in late USTZ to match Late Night.

My one concern with the FW changes continues to be the LP multiplier for the losing side. I understand the benefits to the victor, but punishing the loser with a 4x multiplier is crippling. Right now it makes more sense for Amarr FW pilots to create Minnie FW alts (with new, improved 0.0 standings) to grind their missions for much higher isk/lp rewards.

I was FCing our fleet that night and this simply is not true. There could have been 20 available stations in Raa and the surrounding systems. We did not have enough pilots online to combat their BC/Logi fleet. This is a perfect example of something Amarr FW needs to work on as a group, making sure systems are not closing to being vulnerable come late USTZ.

There is an Amarr system next door to Raa with a station. Thanks for proving my point.

Funny you say that; how much defensive plexing did we do in Raa? I know I did 0. Yet I see plenty of defensive plexers in Lamaa, Sis, Vard, etc. Sometimes war is boredom :P

Raa is right next door to Amarr high sec bro.

Did you really want to keep Raa out of Minmatar hands? If so, then you would have based out of Amarr high sec.

Edit: Stupid question, and I apologize. You guys aren't intereested in Occupancy Warfare. You're interested in pvp - not "orbiting buttons".

There's plenty of pvp to go around, so I really don't know what you're complaining about tbh.

It was a complete lack of cohesion on Amarr's part that Raa fell so easily. You'll notice that Said/Oyo are seeing much more fighting and Kamela is pretty much a safe haven. We'll turn this thing. And they will remember us. We fought here alone and gave up our lives, so that this empire should not perish from the earth.

This^^^^

Caerain - you have done nothing but ***** about changes that many of us are ok with (apart from the fact CCP could have been a little more balanced in how they implemented it - i.e. balance NPCs and change VP payouts in Escalation vs not doing it yet and doing it in Inferno).

Get into a ship, and go plex for a few days, like the rest of us are and get some fights as and when they come.

The changes have given us frontlines which both sides are now pushing hard to extend/hold. Get on them (hint - base in saht or kamela). Or open up a THIRD front in Auga and the surrounds by basing out of Egg and accept that you will have to plex to make the minnies react. We wanted consequences in FW and we got some. Now use that fact and make the minnies choose to keep pushing saht/kam OR defend some of their backwater. All I am hearing is that your corp has no interest in helping the militia... Jones on the other hand, makes me think that some in your corp DO want to help.

Incidently, the reason so many wanted to hold Kamela vs going to high sec is
1) they didn't want to lose another system (we have some pride)
2) they have substantial assets (i.e. caps) that they cannot relocate to high sec (no friendly GMs around unfortunately!!!)
3) some cannot due to sec status, but to say that is the only reason is unfair

I will not sacrifice the Kamela and Sahtogas. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, and no farther! And I will make them pay for what they've done!

This

We are trying to hold the pipe and extend it rather then save the one isolated system that holds little value.

Again I say

HIT AUGA AND THE OTHER BACKWATER SYSTEMS AND MAKE THE MINNIES REACT TO US FOR ONCE instead of complaining!!!

Not 100% certain but I think it only counts final blow and only if the victim is FW

RL vacation i think

And here's the catch: WTB a mechanic that gives as much incentive to fight as the station lockouts do, but still allows the losing side to stay in the fight.

Maybe station lockouts are a bad idea. On one hand I hate them out of principle OTOH I love the increased fighting.

Re: Sitting on station in Machariels!

Do you guys really not understand that a large part of the station lockout was to create an actual battleline?

.

All I heard was, "NO! I DON'T WANNA CHANGE! WHAAAA!"

Funny, because I' m pretty sure that's the reason why you spend all of your time whining on the forum while Fweddit does all the heavy lifting for Amarr militia.

Raa IS worthless to us at the moment compared to OTHER systems.

BTW - us holding the pipe and pushing from there has won back Lamaa...
Oyo is now a valid target, or a push can be made for Tzvi as well perhaps???
The point is, there are BATTLE LINES like I have been saying. You work around them... Think WWI trench warfare if you don't get it...

Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...

The only reason I got was a sec status issue which is NOT an issue for everyone and COULD be fixed with some belt ratting IF you really wanted to make that difference...

I know people are running defensive plexes for this reason. You think Wolfsbrigade ignores their system being taken? You think 7th fleet ignores Sahtogas?

Right now the station lockout rule is the only thing encouraging players to pause the movie they are watching, and engage an enemy in their home system. Sense of urgency leads to more fights.

You have no clue whats going on. There was a build up in action leading to larger and larger fights before Lamaa was finally recaptured by the Amarr. Your comment just proves that you are no longer an active member of FW.

Just quit FW already. Yourself, Maud'dib, and the handfull of others do nothing but complain about change. You realize how weak and impotent you sound? I don't even have to argue with you guys on this thread because there are more Amarians on here that disagree with you.

CCP are not going to roll back the station lockout. It is the number 1 reason why there has been such an improvement in small gang pvp. Fact.

It was said beforeGǪ Adapt or die.

You guys have already been replaced by newer Pilots (tenfold) in the Amarr faction. Soon you will quit and no one will care. Just disgruntled has-beens.

^^^^ this

You are ignoring basic guerrilla tactics, expecting to have lazy PVP just because you are in FW. I was against the changes prior because the station lock outs are a pretty big inconvenience....

Not with that attitude...

Why would it be so terrible for station lock outs to be removed again?

Do you think that everyones fighting right now JUST because it will lock the other guys out? If they are that in itself is not the goal to fight for... sooo kinda proves even more that its a dumb 0.0 mechanic thats got no place in low sec FW.

If you hate a mechanic just because it's in 0.0, you're the one whose dumb.

I like the change, and I don't understand why it gets so much hate. If someone's offensively plexing a system, it is absolutely ridiculous that they just dock up whenever someone so much as comes near them. Station games are awful, boring, and pretty much a waste of everyone's time.

The change encourages pvp. If you're in a roaming gang or plexing in an opposing faction's system, you either engage (pvp) or get to a gate to get out (decent chance of pvp). Or you can warp to a safe and get scanned down.

Do this in Okkamon or Eha, or soon in Ladistier (where Caldari live). You'll get fights, or eventually you will be able to grief them because they will have lost their system.

He IS online 23/7.

Seriously, we need a new form of station lockout rant to keep this thread going.

Yeah you're right. ...

...Caldari are plexing more that gallente by literally 150+ plexes a day. There is no PvP in 99% of those. All their successful bunker busts bar one are done when there is no opposition during 6am-10am tz.. When we are on there is usually a gf.

....

As it is, we repel half a dozen busting attempts and run a few plexes but we still have 150 more plexes to run just to uncontest the system thats basically 4 days of round the clock deplexing lol.

....

I dont know what the perfect solution is, i just fall back to where i was before the update, that station lockout is a terrible idea and that the lp value sea-saw is far too harsh and penalises newer players on the losing side far too much and is far too expensive to maintain and far to vulnerable to attack. We arnt a cohesive null sec alliance. It should be possible for one hard working corp or individual to do well in a faction even if the rest of the faction chooses to sit on their asses. As it stands that is not possible,

Plexing war is best done in a pure pve ship IN BACKWATER systems or when other side is not online. PVP content increases as you get closer to home systems and the home system's timezone.

I challenge you to take Kourm with PvE ships.

Solution under current mechanics is to base out of a system with more FW players in it like Heyd or Nis, or Nenna where you would only have to do one plex at your leisure (while others do the other 16). Or base out of high sec Mesybier next door if you have a sec status above -5.0.

I love the current 4x pvp on steroids, and I wish there was an easier way to get it.

You're the guy who wants pvp "on demand", and is only interested in plexing to get fights, remember? You know how to get it. Go to Kourm. You don't want pvp? Go to todifraun.

sasawong is interested in occupancy warfare and knows how to win it. He also has a sh**ton of kills.

And then they run once we make 11 jumps to get there to stop them from plexing. Same problem, solves nothing. Look, we have alts all over the map, and we report these afk plexers all the time. The issue is that they run away instead of fight most of the time. 11 jumps for nothing. After a while, nobody bothers to go out there.

Crosi never has to orbit a single button to keep his stuff safe (by not stationing in low sec FW system). He has to orbit a huge number of buttons if he is the only guy basing out of a targeted system. Or, he has to run an occasional button if he is based out of a system with many other FW players.

Crosi's biggest complaint is that we kick the Caldari's ass every day in fights, but they are capturing more systems than us because they are more willing to orbit buttons than we are - which is a valid point.

If you're complaining about not getting enough pvp action in this game through FW, then quit playing. FW, right now, is the most pvp-intensive part of Eve Online.

Sasawong has a sh**ton of time.
How many kills per hour do you think he gets?

Talk about a seriously devolving thread. You realize that you're not going to convince the other that you're right don't you?

Nobody wants to live in Athounon because there are no fights out there on a regular basis. Nor in Covryn. Nor in Villasen. Nor in Hasama, nor Hysera. Never have been. The fights are all near the "front lines" from Eha to Tama to Heyd. Living outside this area leads to no fights. There were some fights to be had in Agoze area when Damar would base down there on occasion, but otherwise people like to be where the action is, and the action is currently wherever Caldari base out of in low sec......

Yeah, maybe I've got a skewed perspective.

I remember when the rewards for FW really sucked. No bonused FW LP items. FDU standings would go down if you failed a mission. No rewards for plexing other than tags if you shot all the NPCs (and standings gain for one time epic arc mission). Isk was made by running non-FW missions on the side or running anomalies when things were slow. .

Residual PvE while PvP'ing. We've still got it easy.

It's so much worse nowadays...

Son, that amarr killboard is about as 'not up to date' and 'broken' as can be and we really can't be bothered to use it because of that simple fact. Iirc it also doesn't recognize alliances in Amarr FW.

You should look up things on eve-kill for a more accurate picture.]