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Duke Dantez
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
0
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Posted - 2012.05.25 01:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, let me tell you where IGÇÖm coming from.
I have been in the Minmatar militia for almost 7 months. Pre-Inferno I spent a good amount of time gate camping with my fellow TRIAD members, going on small to mediums size roams and doing the occasional handful of missions to make some quick isk. I never Plexed! In fact I had no clue how plexing worked until about a month before the patch when there was a sudden need to plex like mad before the new changes.
So how have things changed?
Post-Inferno has seen a huge difference in how I play. I am almost exclusively plexing. Running in small gangs and getting into lots of fights. Most of them are small in scale. And the best part of all of this is that the PVP and plexing have earned me a good chunk of LP without doing missions. I may never do another FW mission again as the plexing/PVP is actually generating isk for meGǪ A lot of isk.
Before the patch, plexing was boring and pointless. Now I get a fight almost every time I start plexing. Sometimes IGÇÖm run out by a bigger fish, other times I am able to hold my ground and get a kill in the process. Either way I now feel like I am in a war. There are clearly defined GÇ£front linesGÇ¥ where all the action is. The fights have been great and I am actually looking forward to logging on more than ever before.
I want to know how others feel. I know itGÇÖs only been 2 days but I canGÇÖt help but feel that CCP actually hit a home run with this patch. They may need to tweak a few things here or there but the warzone atmosphere right now is just awesome.
Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel? |

Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 01:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Duke Dantez wrote:First, let me tell you where IGÇÖm coming from.
I have been in the Minmatar militia for almost 7 months. Pre-Inferno I spent a good amount of time gate camping with my fellow TRIAD members, going on small to mediums size roams and doing the occasional handful of missions to make some quick isk. I never Plexed! In fact I had no clue how plexing worked until about a month before the patch when there was a sudden need to plex like mad before the new changes.
So how have things changed?
Post-Inferno has seen a huge difference in how I play. I am almost exclusively plexing. Running in small gangs and getting into lots of fights. Most of them are small in scale. And the best part of all of this is that the PVP and plexing have earned me a good chunk of LP without doing missions. I may never do another FW mission again as the plexing/PVP is actually generating isk for meGǪ A lot of isk.
Before the patch, plexing was boring and pointless. Now I get a fight almost every time I start plexing. Sometimes IGÇÖm run out by a bigger fish, other times I am able to hold my ground and get a kill in the process. Either way I now feel like I am in a war. There are clearly defined GÇ£front linesGÇ¥ where all the action is. The fights have been great and I am actually looking forward to logging on more than ever before.
I want to know how others feel. I know itGÇÖs only been 2 days but I canGÇÖt help but feel that CCP actually hit a home run with this patch. They may need to tweak a few things here or there but the warzone atmosphere right now is just awesome.
Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel?
Personally, I agree. I feel like a lot of other people in Minmatar Militia feel the same way. I'm interested to hear what the Amarr think, and also how it is over in the frog-squid fight.
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |

Tekitha
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
33
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Posted - 2012.05.25 01:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Personally I'm not particularly keen on plex fighting, ship size limitations feel a little bit too much like "battlegrounds" to me. Much of the strategy is removed from combat and it becomes a game of either numbers or raw DPS / range. I prefer fights where it's possible to fight bigger numbers than youself and the thrill of not knowing what is going to warp / cyno in at any moment, much of this is removed inside plex's.
That said plex's are now meaningful to some degree and I'll do what I can to help hold them where previously I wouldnt have, so it has added an extra dimension to the game, I'm gonna have to relearn how to fly T1 dessies and cruisers again.
As to the actual FW changes, unless you rely on the militia LP store for your main source of income (I don't) I see it that little has changed. I eagerly await some more useful sov upgrades to the FW system (cyno jammers and such) otherwise as far as I'm concerned it's basically business as usual. |

Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 02:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tekitha wrote:Personally I'm not particularly keen on plex fighting, ship size limitations feel a little bit too much like "battlegrounds" to me. Much of the strategy is removed from combat and it becomes a game of either numbers or raw DPS / range. I prefer fights where it's possible to fight bigger numbers than youself and the thrill of not knowing what is going to warp / cyno in at any moment, much of this is removed inside plex's.
That said plex's are now meaningful to some degree and I'll do what I can to help hold them where previously I wouldnt have, so it has added an extra dimension to the game, I'm gonna have to relearn how to fly T1 dessies and cruisers again.
As to the actual FW changes, unless you rely on the militia LP store for your main source of income (I don't) I see it that little has changed. I eagerly await some more useful sov upgrades to the FW system (cyno jammers and such) otherwise as far as I'm concerned it's basically business as usual.
I do think that a lot of the Plexing strategy now revolves about who can get into the actual deadspace zone first, which isn't the best system for encouraging tactical creativity. However, the need to utilize multiple hull classes, the need to position yourself inside the plex, outside the plex, in multiple plexes, and all across multiple systems does create a unique environment where there are many opportunities to innovate.
I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
195
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 10:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:
I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone.
Brilliant ideea. +1 |

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 11:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would like 2 entrances for the plexes that are already ative (someone already visited it).
And would like a GIANT Compound. Where even battleships can enter. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
134
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 11:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv Just treat the warp-in as a regional gate, have entry happen within a 30km sphere or larger even. Or the wet dream, have a ship size check when initiating warp to plex and get rid of the gates entirely .. ie. all plexes akin to unrestricted in regards to entry point.
|

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
134
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 12:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Duke Dantez wrote:..Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel? After having tried to get through the thick Icelandic skulls about the extremely lop-sided balance of the Amarr/Shakorite conflict (NPCs, Geography) for going on four years, I had no intention of staying on when they decided it was a good idea to do what they did without first addressing that .. Fortunately for me the Admiralty decided it was time for some R&R (first official break since war started \o/) so didn't have to leave PIE Inc. to show my disdain for CCP and their gross mishandling of what held such enormous promise for the small scale pew and RP in Eve.
Have fun being guinea pigs when CCP starts changing **** willy-nilly when preparations for the null sovereignty starts .. my guess is that they will start "tweaking" before they actually do anything to fix FW (throwing money at/in a problem doesn't fix anything, just hides the stink).
Vordak Kallager wrote:I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv Just treat the warp-in as a regional gate, have entry happen within a 30km sphere or larger even. Or the wet dream, have a ship size check when initiating warp to plex and get rid of the gates entirely .. ie. all plexes akin to unrestricted in regards to entry point.
Petition: Rename FW to FV to more accurately reflect the FarmVilleGäó tie-in of infini-LP and gaping holes waiting to be exploited.
Not Bitter. Just Pissed. |

Destru Kaneda
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 12:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Busy comms and plenty of fights. 9/10. Will be interesting to see how long this can continue. http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/ http://binaerpilot.no/ GMU d-(---)pu s+++:-- a-- C++++$ U>+++ P+ L+ E---- W+++$ w PS+++ PE-- Y++ PGP-- t+ tv-- b+ D++ G e- h r++ y+* |

Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 13:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players. |
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
235
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Posted - 2012.05.25 13:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.
Run four minors, buy a slicer. I think they can afford it. Anything bigger will be an issue. |

Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
40
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Posted - 2012.05.25 13:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's VERY busy. I was on late last night with a buddy from Hawaii, and if you don't have much in the way of back up, then you're 1/2way screwed in the main contested systems. I'd call that working as intended.
I've also seen MANY new faces in the FW warzone on both the Gallente and Caldari side.
I believe that it's going to take a concentrated effort by multiple corps/alliances to get something done.
I've never clicked on the militia office as much as I am now. Ever. It's actually useful. *side note: the % contested column is screwed up. 5% is next to 51%*
Not being able to dock is creating new tactics and logistics.
I've rarely done FW missions, and am glad that I can get LP from doing what I want. This WILL be my main way of making ISK.
increased LP prices make up for the increased amount of LP earned by the normal Militia member (I think) -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |

Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 13:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.
In theory if you need more LP for the same object then the price for the object should rise over time which should compensate the higher need of LP. We will see how this will work out in practice for example on Slicer prices. |

Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 13:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Jones Bones wrote:One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players. In theory if you need more LP for the same object then the price for the object should rise over time which should compensate the higher need of LP. We will see how this will work out in practice for example on Slicer prices.
I think we will see the demand for those products drop; especially when prices for pirates ships (which tend to be superior) are holding steady.
|

Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 13:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv
The new plexing mechanics really make a lot of fun, however you are right the rise of the blob in low sec worries me a bit. Several entry points into one plex would be great. It would be also cool if a plex would consist out of several pockets so that people are split up. For example an large military plex could consist out of two to five pockets, each one having a button. You can count the plex down by sitting at at least in one pockets at the button, but if the enemy sits somewhere in a different pocket on a different button then counting stops which means you have to search him and wipe him out. Could result in funny cat & mouse games. |

Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 13:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Jones Bones wrote:One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players. Run four minors, buy a slicer. I think they can afford it. Anything bigger will be an issue.
40 minutes of PVE to buy a Frigate. With the way prices are rising (a T2 fit Armor Cane runs 80m) you can see how problematic this could become. Or maybe you don't.
|

Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
279
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 14:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
From some of the amarr: The inferno patch has been a nice change to the casual pvp however since the Amarr hold so few systems and the minmatar on a crusade to make sure it takes us an eternity to take any back - Its been a logistical nightmare for a lot of us getting ready for this.
As soon as everyone settles in im sure we can start to see some of that isk you talk about being so readily available from pvp and plexing.
Unfortunately it will take a little time to get to a point where exchanging the LP is going to be worth it since the number of upgrading systems directly alters the LP exchange prices.
A long road ahead. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |

Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.25 14:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've been thinking about returning to faction warfare, because of these changes. I wont depend on it for pvp, but It will add to the mix. Caldari and Amarr side for sure. Maybe Minmatar.
I wonder if these changes have made farming faction warfare missions difficult? |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Its called an unrestricted major, they just are not part of the 30 min respawn group so getting them is a bit random and infrequent
Seishi Maru wrote:
And would like a GIANT Compound. Where even battleships can enter.
Enjoying the expansion, getting loads of small gang fights
Is sexy time? |

David Campbell
Colonial Marines EVE Division Villore Accords
8
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Posted - 2012.05.25 15:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
The new patch is a good addition to faction warfare and it addressed some issues that really needed fixing.
However, I am a bit concerned by how easy it is to downgrade a system. On the Gallente front, there were 5 or 6 lvl V system when I went to sleep last night, only one remained when I woke up. Renarelle went from V to III in that same time. The consequence is that even though we own a lot more systems than the squids, we are having the same bonuses on lp gains and the same prices in the lp store. And because there are so much more systems for the squids to run offensive plex, it's kind of like the loosing side wins.
But overall, it's great patch yeah and as long as there are fights to be found you won't hear me complain.
EDIT : And please CCP fix the fact that a system 31% contested is between a 2% and a 4% contested. Even better allow us to create filters to sort them, like we could set a search for systems contested over 20% within 5 jumps above lvl III and I would give us a list. |
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Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
120
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have been having a blast. I plexed before to get fights, but the activity has increased. I ran missions occasionally before, but now I don't have to. Considering re-rigging and re-fitting my Ishtar...
And I disagree about plexes taking the strategy out of it. I think there is far more. It forces you to make due with a limited set of tools, and not just the 'Jesus Blob' or 'Put a cyno on every ship' paradigm. Plexes make ships like blaster ships, griffins, Keres, Celestis, caracals, etc useful. And you can still nano fleet and armor fleet and use logi, etc. more than one fight has come down to the attackers charging in and trying to push while the defenders are trying to run the last 30 seconds off of the button.
Jesus blob and cyno bait fleets still fight outside just like they did before, but the plexes add a whole new dimension. I'm loving it. |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
As it should be, people have been complaining about no diminishing returns if you are winning...before even thinking about it. We can't possibly keep upgrades in place with all our systems, its impossible to effectively maintain. I like that as it helps the pendulum swing the other way. Its good design IMO. We get LP bonuses and discounts, but they get far more offensive plexing and the ability to grief us by downgrading systems. A turn in the sovereignty war is happening as we speak with the hundreds of new caldari carebears. And I thank CCP for making these changes as I am loving all the fights :)
David Campbell wrote: it's kind of like the loosing side wins.
.
Is sexy time? |

BolsterBomb
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
I love the patch, its keeping me busy (more so on militia admin) trying to get caught up from spending 4 18 hour day sitting on eve.
The new patch has so many small scale fights its unbelievable. I am trying to test new ship types that allow for the pelxing of the lp (farming) but also allow you to fight instead of run.
Example I was flying the malediction and can speed tank majors and mediums. I cant get into the minors (problem) bt the biggest problem is if something were to come at my I have to fly off. So striking a new balance is important. Fight and speed.
I disagree with who gets in the pelx first wins. It is that way now, yes however tactics need to be adjusted to manage this.
For example Nexx and his dang 110k cormorant. Well how do you combat that. Damps. We will be seeing lots of new strategies.
The other thing is if you are taking systems that you do not own you will have to coordinate small minor fleets with the other two. It will make for interesting fights.
The thing I like that IMO makes this work, is people do not want to share their LP from the plexes with others. So you get more 2s and 3s out in the areas spreading people out.
I love it. Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
235
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1, massive numbers of fights. Let's hope it lasts.
Rewards based on being active. Being active leads to pew.
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
CORMI O DOOM!
BolsterBomb wrote: For example Nexx and his dang 110k cormorant. Well how do you combat that. Damps. We will be seeing lots of new strategies.
Is sexy time? |

BolsterBomb
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:+1, massive numbers of fights. Let's hope it lasts.
Rewards based on being active. Being active leads to pew.
QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset" Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
433
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
This expansion has definitely increased the amount pvp and plexing. I would do plexing before the patch - allot of it. However, I would just use the plexes to get pvp and not really run the timer.
I did get to participate in some of the fights in and around kam and Kourm that happened before the changes took effect. It was allot of fun but I really hope we don't just end up with the old "blob kourm" is the only pvp to be had mechanic. I used to like to pvp in the back waters like in frerstorn etc. Now I would be easily camped in there via the hoff cooridor so I donGÇÖt go there anymore. Looking at the killboard its pretty clear there is precious little pvp more than 2 jumps outside kourm.
However I also missed allot of the fun in kam and kourm because I had to move tons of stuff out of the war zone (including drugs that can't be contracted) and still do. It was stuff I had spent a good amount of time planting there throughout the zone so I could get more pvp. Having to spend time undoing this work really leaves a bitter taste.
And I am not done yet. I still have allot more stuff to move around and *allot* more logistics to do to get ships into the new base. This sort of shuffling work makes me dread signing on the game. Being a casual player I know I will never base out of the faction war zone again. Not unless ccp removes this no docking rule and gives some assurance they wonGÇÖt implement it again.
Moreover fighting in plexes is a real pain when you can't repair rat damage except by going a few jumps out and coming back. (or using alts. yes there are options but none of them are good) The enemy warps in you have to warp out because half your tank is gone. The enemy sees you leave local assumes you are gone for good and by the time you come back he is gone too.
There is lots of new and newb blood. I don't think I have killed this many t1 fit ships in pvp ever. It has been described as a turkey shoot.
As far as the 16x multiplier yes it makes the losing sides lp pretty much worthless. But so long as there is no lp for defensive plexing I think the tides may turn.
So I don't mind it too much and I would be willing to wait to see what happens here - if they would undue the no docking rule.
But really even if they undue the no docking rule there would still not be enough to balance things out without help from a bigger alliance. If nothing else changes I think the losing side is stuck having to negotiate with a large alliances to bail them out, or just hope one decides to turn the tides for their militia for the lulz. (although I think caldari may be able to change the tides for other reasons and once/if they do gallente will basically be in the same boat)
The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes. Perhaps it was the shock ccp needed to get people to do plexing again. But itGÇÖs no longer anything but a detriment to pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
235
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset" No point. A certain Amarr roleplayer who shall remain nameless but has a last name of "Yoshida" will be bitter about everything associated with FW.
To be fair we'll need to see how long this lasts, but for now the pew is great and I expect lots of players to sign up as FW is reaching some sort of pew pew harmonic convergence.
To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes! |

BolsterBomb
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:[quote=BolsterBomb]
To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!
Explain Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
433
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 15:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote:I've been thinking about returning to faction warfare, because of these changes. I wont depend on it for pvp, but It will add to the mix. Caldari and Amarr side for sure. Maybe Minmatar.
I wonder if these changes have made farming faction warfare missions difficult?
The no docking rule has made farming missions easier - at least for the winning side. You will find that wartargets can't even dock in many of the systems you are sent to mission in.
The lp from the losing side is pretty much worthless so yeah there would be no point in running missions for them anyway. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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