First, let me tell you where IGÇÖm coming from.

I have been in the Minmatar militia for almost 7 months. Pre-Inferno I spent a good amount of time gate camping with my fellow TRIAD members, going on small to mediums size roams and doing the occasional handful of missions to make some quick isk. I never Plexed! In fact I had no clue how plexing worked until about a month before the patch when there was a sudden need to plex like mad before the new changes.

So how have things changed?

Post-Inferno has seen a huge difference in how I play. I am almost exclusively plexing. Running in small gangs and getting into lots of fights. Most of them are small in scale. And the best part of all of this is that the PVP and plexing have earned me a good chunk of LP without doing missions. I may never do another FW mission again as the plexing/PVP is actually generating isk for meGǪ A lot of isk.

Before the patch, plexing was boring and pointless. Now I get a fight almost every time I start plexing. Sometimes IGÇÖm run out by a bigger fish, other times I am able to hold my ground and get a kill in the process. Either way I now feel like I am in a war. There are clearly defined GÇ£front linesGÇ¥ where all the action is. The fights have been great and I am actually looking forward to logging on more than ever before.

I want to know how others feel. I know itGÇÖs only been 2 days but I canGÇÖt help but feel that CCP actually hit a home run with this patch. They may need to tweak a few things here or there but the warzone atmosphere right now is just awesome.

Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel?

Personally I'm not particularly keen on plex fighting, ship size limitations feel a little bit too much like "battlegrounds" to me. Much of the strategy is removed from combat and it becomes a game of either numbers or raw DPS / range. I prefer fights where it's possible to fight bigger numbers than youself and the thrill of not knowing what is going to warp / cyno in at any moment, much of this is removed inside plex's.

That said plex's are now meaningful to some degree and I'll do what I can to help hold them where previously I wouldnt have, so it has added an extra dimension to the game, I'm gonna have to relearn how to fly T1 dessies and cruisers again.

As to the actual FW changes, unless you rely on the militia LP store for your main source of income (I don't) I see it that little has changed. I eagerly await some more useful sov upgrades to the FW system (cyno jammers and such) otherwise as far as I'm concerned it's basically business as usual.

I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone.

I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv

..Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel?

I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv

One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.

One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.

In theory if you need more LP for the same object then the price for the object should rise over time which should compensate the higher need of LP. We will see how this will work out in practice for example on Slicer prices.

I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv

Run four minors, buy a slicer. I think they can afford it. Anything bigger will be an issue.

And would like a GIANT Compound. Where even battleships can enter.

it's kind of like the loosing side wins.

.

For example Nexx and his dang 110k cormorant. Well how do you combat that. Damps. We will be seeing lots of new strategies.

+1, massive numbers of fights. Let's hope it lasts.

Rewards based on being active. Being active leads to pew.

QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset"

[quote=BolsterBomb]

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

I've been thinking about returning to faction warfare, because of these changes. I wont depend on it for pvp, but It will add to the mix. Caldari and Amarr side for sure. Maybe Minmatar.

I wonder if these changes have made farming faction warfare missions difficult?

The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes. Perhaps it was the shock ccp needed to get people to do plexing again. But itGÇÖs no longer anything but a detriment to pvp.

Explain

Incursus gets a 50% bonus to repping power and you can fit two of them into your low slots. This leads to massive repping power. You need to blob or neut these things to kill them.

QCATS, the all time leading private corporation in FW kills, has quadrupled its daily number of kills since the patch. We've had no problems fighting 4 jumps into enemy territory. It seems the increase in pew vastly outweighs the costs in reshipping (so far).

Arguments I am seeing:

Permise 1: CCP made 15 different changes to faction war.

Premise 2: PVP and plexing has increased.

Conclusion: Therefore each and every one of the 15 changes was good and none of them could be bad.



While I agree that premise 1 and 2 are true the logic is horrible.


This is why the idea of lets "wait and see" what happens is illogical. The data won't answer what changes are causeing which results because there are simply too many changes at once. They are essentially confounding variables.

I think we will see the demand for those products drop; especially when prices for pirates ships (which tend to be superior) are holding steady.

How do you get 4 for 10k lp. I know the ship.....

No point. A certain Amarr roleplayer who shall remain nameless but has a last name of "Yoshida" will be bitter about everything associated with FW.

To be fair we'll need to see how long this lasts, but for now the pew is great and I expect lots of players to sign up as FW is reaching some sort of pew pew harmonic convergence.

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

Seems to me that datacore market manipulation by the reduced LP faction would be the way to go. Added bonus if you have ties with invention. But that is just a theory. vOv

How are you getting 10k comets? I thought you were at the same warzone control as us (tier 1) . What am I missing?

And I am not done yet. I still have allot more stuff to move around and *allot* more logistics to do to get ships into the new base. This sort of shuffling work makes me dread signing on the game. Being a casual player I know I will never base out of the faction war zone again. Not unless ccp removes this no docking rule and gives some assurance they wonGÇÖt implement it again.

The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes.

Moreover fighting in plexes is a real pain when you can't repair rat damage except by going a few jumps out and coming back. (or using alts. yes there are options but none of them are good)

As far as the 16x multiplier yes it makes the losing sides lp pretty much worthless. But so long as there is no lp for defensive plexing I think the tides may turn.

Emphasizing that cost associated with not being able to reship is acknowledged. Also emphasizing the cost is less than the benefit of the 14 other things CCP has implemented.

Geez, have some fun and quit nitpicking game design. You have the fights you've always claimed you've wanted for the past 3 years. Enjoy them while you can.

Of course your side of the war is not 59 systems to 11 so you don't understand, but keep pretending amarr are just "nitpicking."

This will work if all the people with research agents are dumb and don't have their research alts getting the amarr datacores. How long do you think that will last?

I'm trying to in between trying move all my crap out of the war zone. With 2 pvp characters that I purposely spread fit ships and modules out throughout the zone it is not so easy. I don't have a carrier alt.

I'm a casual player and even though I'm on the opposing side, I have a similar problem.

This change has focused the war and created front lines where most of the action is.
These front lines can, and will, move. That will create lots of logistic issues, as you point out.
And that's what was needed - an incentive to fight!

Yes, I find myself away from the current front line and will have to deal with that to get fights. And that's just what I'll do.

Both sides will be trying to ship their stuff to (or possibly away from) the front lines, whereever they may be.
And that provides more targets (and a different play style) for everyone.

We have lots of incentives to fight under this new system. There is no need to create logistical issues to get pvp, or create mechanics where all the fighting only takes place in a few systems.



Good for you. If you are happy to be a space hauler I won't knock it. Its just not why I sign on.

I just want to emphasize that I am sayin YOU are nitpicking, not the Amarr. There are several Amarr corporations still based in low sec (Kamela, Sahtogas), as well as the hordes of Amarr in Eggelhende. It doesn't look like they will e kicked out any time soon.

Im not sure how Amaar works, but up here in Caldari space I can go into almost any system and get a 3 man fight. If I go into the main system areas yes blobs occur, but I usally go 6-15 jump in fw and always get a fight.

Logistics, shouldve thought about moving your stuff prior patch and if you really dont want to haul. Black Frog 40m

FYI Eggelhende is out of the war zone. So those hordes have already been kicked out. As for the others I guess it will depend on what you mean by "anytime soon."

Erm, why can't you (or a fleet mate) fit reps? You don't have to dock up somewhere to repair.

[


That will be one of the balances, I think.
We have lots more plexes to defend, gaining no lp for doing it. Plus putting the lp we do get into upgrades.
You gain lp from the abundance of plexes you have to choose from.

And of course, we all now gain lp from shooting each other. \o/

So your bad planning doesn't make the patch bad it makes your situation bad. Your fault you didnt think about the logistics prior to patch. There is a 2 week long forum post about your view on station lockout. Theres no excuse you can make no saying "I cant get my stuff out" You knew about it and were a big proponent against it.

Yes both get the same lp for the same types of ships but your lp is several times more valuable than mine.

Oh I thought about it. And I took measures so I can get my stuff out. It just meant that I couldn't pvp as much.

I don't really like spending my time on eve hauling **** around. Its a tedious pain in the ass. If you like doing that, then certainly you will like the no docking rule.

Do any players based in Kamela and Sahtogas care to respond to this post? How long until you guys think you'll get kicked?

And it seems to me that Eggelhende is a great place to base out of. My corp did so last year and had no trouble reshipping since it's right next to the front lines of the fighting.

Again your poor planning doesnt make the patch crap it makes your planing crap. Its not about liking to haul its about being smart......

Anyway I am not going to keep saying the same thing over and over in reply to your post.

Our stuff is cheaper, but you have the opportunity to get more (spendable) lp, as I posted.

To be honest, you are sounding like you are whining because things changed and you can't carry on the same way you used to.

And it seems to me that Eggelhende is a great place to base out of. My corp did so last year and had no trouble reshipping since it's right next to the front lines of the fighting.

Is it not asinine to need to base out of a system that cant be taken, to be able to fight for ones that are?

However, I am a bit concerned by how easy it is to downgrade a system. On the Gallente front, there were 5 or 6 lvl V system when I went to sleep last night, only one remained when I woke up. Renarelle went from V to III in that same time.

No. It's smart, especially when you are currently out-manned.

I am surprised that *anyone* is upgrading their systems at all given how easy it is to siphon LP off, but people do it.

There is an LP bonus for upgrading that may make it worthwhile. Haven't done the math on it, but everybody would need to contribute as a team to get it done.

Well not only are you NOT in a fw system to fight in fw, but since minnies cant take it they CAN dock, so all the docking games and camping is going to be exactly the same as it was anywhere else before the patch.

So, in summary, you would rather play docking games in Auga rather than Eggelhende? Is that the argument you're making?

Im all up for making fw worth fighting in and for, but with a change in mechanics vs. the overpowering forces, its actually broken fw in just one week, hardly a shining vision of what everyone wanted and had in mind with this patch and not very encouraging for the future - however im going my best to try.

Broken, really? Kills have increased by 5x since the patch. Casual pew with consequences FTW. If somebody told me I had to move to Yvangier in order to get 5x as many kills as I did before the patch I'd help my 100 man corp move there as fast as possible.

Sadly I anticipate both are kicked out in the next 4 months. Kamela has a better chance but I think the future is looking dim.

Eggelhende is close unless of course the kourm auga gate is camped. Its a regional gate but if you are trying to come back to the fight in anything larger than a dessie you may not make it back. The other way takes about 8 jumps.

And how long do you expect that to last, sooner or later the noobs will run out. Do you think that little of your enemy?

Station lock-outs are perfectly in line with how null works .. except we don't have a Titan in every constellation, a bridge in every system, bubbles or bombs .. all part of what makes null outposts "workable". And no I do not want those heinous things in FW, just pointing out that CCP chose the wrong damn thing to implement from their long list of "atrocious stuff in null".

NPC null is commonly referred to as the place to be outside FW (old) for casual pew, a state made possible almost exclusively by 'free docking' .. how do any of you snowballs think FW can keep up steam when that is removed and actual balance is not even addressed?

...It was different when CCP was asking for feedback but at this point all the whining is ********. Nuff Said...

When did they? As I recall practically all members of FW wanted restrictions on what can be done in stations or a reshuffle of stations + lockouts so that it was possible to actually stay in FW land when the inevitable snowball hit.

This blanket lockout, when the rumours started just prior to Fanfest, had me whoring the forums in a big way as it is quite literally game-breaking. They had a "roundtable" (someone give CCP a dictionary so they can look the word up) at FF which as it turns out was nothing more than a presentation (as I expected given their knowledge of FW) and changes were made pretty much exactly as they were shown way back then.

PS: Notice how I no longer solely blame CCP Sound Fail. Came to the realisation that for a moronic concept of lock-outs in low-sec the entire corporation must be in the wrong .. or someone would have shouted foul surely!

And how long do you expect that to last, sooner or later the noobs will run out. Do you think that little of your enemy?

Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple. For every voice yelling no there was a voice yelling yes.

The yes's won and it is working properly. Your job is to adapt now.....but from the sounds of it there are a bunch of bitter vets that didnt even read the patch notes or if they did care about acting on it before the lockout.

I am just glad that others see the light and the few people like yourself are just stuck in the mud refusing to leave. It IS a case of bitter vet.

...December expansion was awesome - we saw a significant upswing in plex fighting. This patch has increased plex fighting even more.

No there really wasn't. I have been very involved in each and every FW thread since the beginning and have started several of my own and the only "request" for total lockout came from null dwellers. They may have had an alt in FW, but really no way of knowing so can't and won't base perception on that.

No longer involved in FW, so I did act by using the only tool available to me .. you see, I do not have a horde of alts to handle logistics and arrange for rehips in 'hostile' systems like you probably do.

Oh I am out of the mud, first time in four years of fighting an uphill battle against bugs, exploits and imbalances I am free of CCPs stupidity (as pertains to FW).

No you saw station/gate games and gank squads move to plexes .. there is a distinct difference. The volume of fights remained constant past December, locations shifted that is all .. good thing to be sure as plex fights are preferable to just about anything else in Eve.

Honestly, you guys knew station lockouts were coming weeks ago. The fact that you didn't take the necessary precautions speaks volumes.

Honestly, you guys knew station lockouts were coming weeks ago. The fact that you didn't take the necessary precautions speaks volumes.

with all the other changes and the sides as uneven at the time, we kinda thought they were joking also - no one knew weather a system reset would happen too.

Stations denying docking

As such, with Inferno, all stations within a low-security Factional Warfare system will now deny docking to any factional enemy (neutrals will remain unaffected). That means restricting any kind of service or agent access to all pilots in opposing militias.

I just want to emphasize that I am sayin YOU are nitpicking, not the Amarr. There are several Amarr corporations still based in low sec (Kamela, Sahtogas), as well as the hordes of Amarr in Eggelhende. It doesn't look like they will e kicked out any time soon.

The threat of lock out is ok, gives you something to fight for.

From the May 9th Dev Blog:



I wasn't even in FW at the time and I saw this coming.

I don't think that is much time to move 2 years worth of fit ships boosters and mods that I had planted. Moreover, I don't think we ever got an answer on whether they would reset sov. (I could be wrong on this though)

Yes you did I specifacclly asked about it in the patch thread by CCP and was answered by CCP. I then posted another thread here saying no sov reset.

This is simply delicious.

*WORKING AS INTENDED*

What part of "No Surrender, No Retreat!" did you not understand?

Take your defeatist attitude somewhere else please.

If we are to prevail, then we should believe it, instead of giving up.
This last week before patch has shown that the Amarr are more than capable of fighting back, despite being horrendously outnumbered. And while you were busy running to the hills with your stuffz I was out there fighting for my home and that of my allies.

I can only hope you find the will to do the same.

- Capitol One

Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple.

.....then why are you here complaining?

The current system might not be the absolute ideal, but it is a) certainly a lot better than it used to be and b) the station lock out might be inconvenient for some people, but it doesn't break the faction warfare system.

I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as you do. I am not really the "rah rah" type.

We were pretty seriously outmanned in the system we were basing out of, and I don't really play that often to make much of a difference. Real life and that stuff that keeps me from going to sov null, or playing eve that way. I don't think any amount of positive thinking would have changed that.

Stuff

Stuff

From EVE-Kill.net it's quite obvious I have no actively played EVE in over a year.

...To each their own, you just seemed to me like you cared a great deal, with how much you lamented over our "defeat and imminent destruction/eviction". Also, I'd like to think it was our [Amarr] beliefs and spirit that made us prevail where others would've fallen :)...

Troll

The right attitude.



The wrong attitude.

Funny how that coincides with T3 alts maturing thus completely breaking the game for all pew enthusiasts who don't meta-game or alt spam. Been playing, just stayed away from the neutral boosted blobbo-rama that FW turned into.
Also coincides with all the high and mighty promises of :awesome: improvements for FW to be included in Incursions only to be axed when CCP realised it would actually require work.

Players like Veshta did absolutely nothing to fight for their side on the run up to Inferno and spent the entire time prepping for evac while posting complaints on the forum is the brutal reality.

And even now I think the single biggest problem facing the Amarr is too much negativity and not enough "can do" as demonstrated effectively by those of their comrades who did actually fight last week

The Faction Warfare "as was" mythologised by Veshta was about pointing lone war targets in defensive plexes with navy slicers and letting the npcs do much of the kill...

You sound like you don't enjoy EVE. Why bother playing?

Pretty much :this:

I've seen in the last couple of weeks that the Amarrian Faction is quite capable of putting up one hellova fight when it needs to but it suffers from a lot of vocal naysaying and defeatist claptrap. I can only imagine how annoying it would be to try to organize in that environment and be told by one's allies "it can't be done", "its impossible" "no chance!" all the time.
.

Because I keep hoping beyond all reasonable hope that CCP will wake the **** up and actually look at and think about what they doing instead of ticking boxes in the database after consulting nothing but metrics.
Can you imagine the ****-storm that would arise if they pulled something like Inferno on the NPC null regions .. no docking based on standings/sovereignty with one party being able to achieve said standings/sovereignty 3-4 times easier than everyone else? .. yeah, that would go down smooth like

FYI, logged in this afternoon... picked up ship in Nenna. Straight away Fight No. 1:
5 Thoraxes in Medium Plex

Then we started moving to Tama . Low and behold, a nano-Zealot wanted to engage on gate in Hikk (under protection of gate guns). (He had a Gila and another buddy who chickened out)

Well, we might as well keep going. A Loki wanted the same sort of protection in Kedama on the Hirri gate:
Loki+Purifier, plus there was another fight we weren't involved in.

After losing drones to gate guns I dock up in Nisuwa and added to the wealth of the excellent fellow in SoTF who sells drones on market, and then head back to Nenna and our boys point a Drake.

We move to Aivonen to run some guys out of a plex, but there's another Drake.

Nonstop action all within an hour. Greatest expansion ever!

Congrats wolfs brigade for letting raa flip.
I know no matter what's said about it you guys will claim it as a win.
Just like wen we took all them systems pre patch u guys somehow won.

I told you guys to drop the Logi and I'd get together a group of BCs to brawl mode. If you wanted a fight in late night USTZ like that you wouldn't have had brought all dem Guardians.

According to the Amarr Killboards:

Veshta is the top killer of the player corp with the 3rd highest number of kills in amarr faction war. 2772 faction war kills.

Muad 'dib is the Ceo of the player corp with the 2nd highest number of total kills in amarr history and has 2189 individual faction war kills recorded with that corp.

People who are upset with certain of these changes know the faction war mechanics.

Confirming two Guardians is "all dem Guardians". Confirming open militia fleet with half the #s being newbs in crap-Thrashers is very "frightening".

::shrug::

We had 15 in fleet and you had over that just in BCs. Again, without Logis I would have suicided a fleet into you. But you got to shoot a structure while I spun my ship sooooooo faaaaaast.

4 years as opposed to your 4 months .. that is why my opinion matters more than yours .. nublet.

The only thing I am saying, ie. repeating ad nauseum, is that FW balance is broken and has been for as long as I remember .. it should have been so high up on the list that crap like incentives/consequences were but dots on the horizon.

Until the fundamentals are addressed there can be no push-back at all .. it is quite literally not theoretically possible .. Amarr would need 3-4x the Mime numbers to offensive plex with no repair/dock available.
We are talking plus 3-400 actives across times-zones to be able to deal with logistics, NPCs, Mimes, Neutrals et. al. at the same time .. and no, a swarm noobs will not make much of a difference against what will likely be 100% faction fitted faction hulls flown by multi-year veterans.

So if you want that mythological push-back you speak of, then go convince a medium sized null alliance to join up to a side where ISK is scarce, you have to fight with no immediate support available (docking) and enemy has equal numbers and devastatingly broken NPCs on their side.

So if you want that mythological push-back you speak of, then go convince a medium sized null alliance to join up to a side where ISK is scarce, you have to fight with no immediate support available (docking) and enemy has equal numbers and devastatingly broken NPCs on their side.

4 years as opposed to your 4 months .. that is why my opinion matters more than yours .. nublet..

4 years + 4 months. I trump you, and therefore my opinion means more than yours. nublet.

..Has any one figured out the distance we should be from the capture point to still be rewarded for our efforts?

A bit Wall-of-Texty, a few more spaces between paragraphs would be good .. but not unreadable

Re: Defensive Plexing. Having it fill up 'damaged' LP would make the LP drain a one time deal (until system flip) so counter productive .. have defensive plexes repair 25-50% of damaged LP however so that you at least get a bit while still requiring a re-investment.

Re: FW Missions. Has that been confirmed, that missions can go to any system that originally had hostile Sov? If so .. Holy Screw Up Batman!

- No NPC balancing. Amarr faction NPCs are terrible.

I like this idea I heard a couple of nights ago concerning capturing plexes: Must kill all npcs inside a plex to capture it in addition to the timer. Or at least have to kill certain 'triggers.'

..Crap.. I agree with everything you just said...

I like this idea I heard a couple of nights ago concerning capturing plexes: Must kill all npcs inside a plex to capture it in addition to the timer. Or at least have to kill certain 'triggers.'

I like this idea I heard a couple of nights ago concerning capturing plexes: Must kill all npcs inside a plex to capture it in addition to the timer. Or at least have to kill certain 'triggers.'

-Pro: Station lockout. I hated the whole thing at first, but it does bring more tension to FW, as evidenced by the vastly larger and more heated fights just prior to patch. Additionally it definitely gives that 'supply lines' feel.

Way to make me sound like a raving maniac .. I may have a stable full of dead'ish horses that I spend quite some time flogging, but outside the stable I am rather ordinary.

That idea is as old as the discussion about FW NPC balance ... one of the many "proofs" that CCP has been glossing over (read: ignoring) everything related to FW the past four years
Would be such a simple fix and solve some of the imbalances in that regard .. remaining would be the question of eWar and the NPCs tendency to involve themselves in the pew.

A bit Wall-of-Texty, a few more spaces between paragraphs would be good .. but not unreadable

Re: Defensive Plexing. Having it fill up 'damaged' LP would make the LP drain a one time deal (until system flip) so counter productive .. have defensive plexes repair 25-50% of damaged LP however so that you at least get a bit while still requiring a re-investment.

Re: FW Missions. Has that been confirmed, that missions can go to any system that originally had hostile Sov? If so .. Holy Screw Up Batman!

Again the intense fighting that occured before the patch was due to several different factors. Including the large economic incentives to owning systems, and the 5x shorter flip times. (yes the station lock out almost certainly contributed to this but that is theory crafting that we can't say is based on data because we don't have the other 2 major variables controled) If the intense fighting was due only to the station lock outs we would still see the intense fighting we saw before the patch.

I like all the changes.
Buff titans

-That crappily written story about militia "deserters". That thing pissed me off. I'm not a RPer, but the whole thing had a tone of "you don't like the changes that we're making without listening to any of your complaints, requests, pleading,begging, or posting for the last 4 years? You don't like that we ignored every single bug with FW that we have been made aware of for years and only created more, refuse to reset the warzone, and plan to lock you out of assets? You plan to leave militia because we blithly ignored you? well screw you! We'll right xan RP piece to call you 'deserters'!" Seriously its just an 'up yours' piece to the people who had for years hoped for some needed attention to FW only to get ham-handed and misguided responses. The attitude of the game creators to their customers represented by this little 'newspiece' is just sad.

For what its worth I read that RP piece as a teaser for DUST514 to suggest that members of the groundside empire militias were slipping away into the shadowy attractions of merc lifestyle.

My impressions so far have been largely positive.

That being said, I want to say I fundamentally believe Cearain is wrong in his objections.

The station lock out is bringing a front line and concentrating where the fighta are occurring so people can find them. It is also giving some consequences. The "casual" pvper who logs in once a week needs to adjust to base out of high sec. That's a given. If you can't log on/monitor the war zone to see if a system you base in is getting close to flipping, base where it can't flip. Otherwise, you can log in casually, get a few fights and/or run a few plexes (worst case defensive plex to save your system!!!) - this hasn't changed.

Yes, the Amarr are in a tight corner at this point in time. But we CAN fight out of it and push the minnies back IF people log in and fight. Yes Raa fell. It was too far away from 7th fleet to actively defend and that was also possibly the case for the people in Kamela. The strategic objectives will now be more defined around supply routes.

I realize that if we all log in more we can win this. But realistically I am not going to be able to log in more. If I wanted to face a situation where I had to either log in more often or be kicked out of my space I would be in null sec.

I don't understand how strategic objectives are defined along "supply routes." Don't neutrals bring most of your supplies in? They aren't effected by sov. I am not sure what you mean.

The question I must ask of those living in Egghelende is why we are not seeing more contesting of Auga and the other system BEHIND the current front lines? Go offensive plex the crap out of those systems and make the minnies split their focus or risk losing Auga etc... Downgrade their system upgrades so their LP bonus is reduced. Its currently at 4x. Drop their system upgrades and it will come down and make their LP worth less. You get LP for hitting these systems. They don't. They have to expend their LP to keep them at level 5...

I'm sure I will get some flames from some people for this. That's fine. Forums are for discussion. The main point is that for the first time in a long time, I am enjoying fighting in FW as there are consequences to my actions. That means there is sand in the sandbox, Eve FW is real and I AM THERE!!!

If we have to return to a station we can dock in to reship - it potentially limits your ability to rapidly ship up/ship down. Hence you will potentially stay closer to your systems when offensively plexing.

As for the PvP corps - if you hit those systems hard enough, you will get fights coming to you when they come to chase you out and/or decontest.

It's nice to see someone else understanding the 'bigger picture', even if they are the enemy.
You're right - Amarr can offensive plex all over the place now (possibly with a bit of travel time). You gain LP, take it away from us, and make us defensive plex for which we get nothing and pull us back from the front line. That is the balance.



I totally agree.

Cearain on the other hand, seems to want to have a pile of ships in a station, undock and pvp. Nothing else.
Which is fine. There are places you can do that (RvB comes to mind). FW now has more than that - those that want to will adapt as required.

I want FW to be improved and to have consequences added. I just didn't want it turned into null sec where it involves more grinding that fighting. I want the consequences to be tied to pvp not to pve.

In other words the vast majority of the fighting still has very little to do with any of the consequences of the occupancy war. There is still a wall between pve plexing and pvp. I want that to change. Others are just so busy cheerleading that they are missing this.

Bottom line is Raa was lost without a fight due to station lock outs. If we could still dock in lost systems we could have planted a bunch of plexing ships there. That way even if we lost the system that effort wouldn't be wasted because we could still use those ships to start offensive plexing and starting to take it back. However with the current mechanic if we moved ships there it would have had a large potential to be a wasted effort and lead to us having to move all that stuff back out again.

(Docking in mehator is not an option for the low sec status pilots and even if that weren't a problem that gate could be easilly camped.)

Re: FW Missions. Has that been confirmed, that missions can go to any system that originally had hostile Sov? If so .. Holy Screw Up Batman!

CCP need to add rewards for defensive plexing as well, to ensure people actually have a proper incentive to hold on to their systems once they've captured them.

I joined FW to have "PvP available" but not really be commited full time. I have PvP'd for years and am just burnt out on it atm. I wanted to ISK up and just chill for a month or two. I did a ton of missions and did just that.

Along the way, I notice that many dedicated militia members kind of hate the mission runners.

Now: The mission LP have dropped in value, but ppl like me can plex for ISK, and the plexing helps the cause/whole militia. I put major dents in a lot of systems occupancy/contested levels. And I keep the enemy distracted along the way.

Raa has no stations for you to have been locked out of. Build a POS..

You're going to see tons of systems with no stations flipping because they aren't worth defending. Time is better spent farming offensive plexes elsewhere, or defending important systems like Kamela and Sahtogas.

Mehatoor is high sec next door to Raa - and has a station. The reason Raa was lost was because more Minmatar farmed it than Amarr who thought it was worth defending.

You're going to see tons of systems with no stations flipping because they aren't worth defending. Time is better spent farming offensive plexes elsewhere, or defending important systems like Kamela and Sahtogas.

Really Cearain, sometimes it seems like you don't understand the fundamental concepts involved with playing the FW occupancy game.

No. Amarr are short the number of systems we'd need to get out of Tier 1 warzone control even if we upgraded all of them. We were already short before we lost Raa. Without Raa, we're even farther from using our LP as other than toilet paper. We haven't a single system that isn't worth defending. The reality of the Amarr/Minmatar front is that the Minmatar won. There's a lot to be said about the ridiculous and artificial nature of their victory, but anyway the Amarr militia is defeated, have the bearing of the defeated, speak as the defeated, behave like the defeated, and although this may not be obvious, although there are efforts to disguise it, it's discernible enough.

I guess I'll take your word for it, but in the end last week I saw one person (Cynthia + her alt) occasionally in Raa whereas I saw 10 to 20 in Kamela and Sahtogas at all times.

[quote=X Gallentius]Yeah allot of us are more interested in pvp rather than pve.

Let's see who has more kills, Cynthia or Cearain.....

Cearain

Cynthia

Yup. Seems like Cynthia - a player more interested in plexing (allegedly) - has more kills than a player more interested in fights (allegedly). In the past two weeks, anybody in my corp has been able to get 20 kills in one night.

I joined FW to have "PvP available" but not really be commited full time. I have PvP'd for years and am just burnt out on it atm. I wanted to ISK up and just chill for a month or two. I did a ton of missions and did just that.

Along the way, I notice that many dedicated militia members kind of hate the mission runners.

Now: The mission LP have dropped in value, but ppl like me can plex for ISK, and the plexing helps the cause/whole militia. I put major dents in a lot of systems occupancy/contested levels. And I keep the enemy distracted along the way.

Do you want me to explain all the reasons why someone might have more kills over a 2 week period than someone else? Or can you think this through yourself and realize this is not in any way proof that closing plexes is not the best way to find pvp in faction war?

By all means let's hear them. Your kill totals / month are pretty subpar at best. It doesn't seem to me like you try very hard to get fights at all - whether in plexes or roaming pipes. In all seriousness, any one of the 100+ guys I've flown with over the past three weeks (in both Gallente and Minmatar FW space) easily get into more fights than you seem to find.

So wait, do you just have a REALLY limited time to play Cearain? Cause I have less than 2 hours a night, and have only been back on since the 18th from a couple of months of RL stuff. Yet I have more kills than you this month as well? OK, so the carrier wasn't in a plex, but most of the war target kills were in systems with plexes active or on plex gates, or inside the plex themselves. Just sayin.

Garr Earthbender

The reason Raa was lost was it was isolated from the people defending the saht area and trying to push back down that part of the pipe and for whatever reason (since I wasn't in contact with them), the people closer such as kam didn't defend it. I don't know if there are legitimate reasons or not.
Regardless of the fact, saying you don't want to pve for a week around Auga is a strawman argument. Either get yourself to the front line or hit their backyard. Just don't assume they will rush to defend it when occupancy is still well in their favour. When you get it closer to flipping, which shouldn't be that long if you are not contested in the plexes you will find the following
1) Lots of LP ready to go in the FW store when things are in your favour
2) The fights coming to you left right and centre as the blob moves to decontest those systems
3) The militia pilots fighting to save/push back around kam/saht will probably come for the mother of all battles vs the minnies.

Auga is perhaps the key to the fight at the moment - take it and some of those systems and the blob has to be in two places at once...

Btw, 3-6 hours per week playing EVE is *very* casual.

I do hope that is not the 'official' website of the Amarr player faction? The forums look completely dead

Btw, 3-6 hours per week playing EVE is *very* casual. Most people spend 2+ hours every day mindlessly watching TV, family or no. If you're smart, you have entirely dropped the bad habit of watching TV and spend all the gained time on EVE instead

For what it's worth, it's about the same for me.

It's certainly possible to play that amount and still have fun and be involved with things.

It can also be really frustrating when the hour or so you've got to play ends up with nothing happening. Or joining just after the fleet disbands. But there's not much that can be done about that.

Stuff about game time.

I would note that I assume that Wolfsbrigade does not seem to use it.

The Website is the most official killboard I know of. I didn't even really know it had a forum. I just use it as a killboard. I would note that I assume that Wolfsbrigade does not seem to use it. They would likely be at the top of the list. They are really the only major amarr corp I have heard of not using it. But like you say I am very casual so I might be wrong.

Son, that amarr killboard is about as 'not up to date' and 'broken' as can be and we really can't be bothered to use it because of that simple fact. Iirc it also doesn't recognize alliances in Amarr FW.

You should look up things on eve-kill for a more accurate picture.

This month we went/are going past 2000 kills as a corp/alliance. There has never been this much action.

Oh and i'll rally myself on Lock Out's opinion. CCP dealt a hand - you either play it or you fold.

Some of us, rumor has it, are really good at poker

I assumed we all know by now that eve is far from what you can call "a game for casual players ?"

Also, you can't realistically expect to be rewarded for not playing. While other games reward you for playing with XP , Eve (on the pvp side at least) rewards you with quantity and/or quality of kills. If you are expecting to play 8 hrs/week and get the same results or benefits as the guy playing 8 hrs/day, then you are in for dissapointment.

Yes, FW was designed for casuals, it didn't work because, well ...casuals aren't active enough to provide a good environment, so CCP redesigned it. We like it or not, we have to deal with it, they are not gonna scrap all their investment in developement time/money. Hell, they are not even giving up on that crap inventory because they put development time in to it, allthough that's a far more obvious fiasco.


TL;DR We play the cards we are dealt . CCP dealt some cards, we can either play them or fold and leave the table.

.....Or we can give feedback like they asked us to.....

In the current landscape, if you are too casual to risk basing out of saht/kam because you don't think we can hold them, base out of Egg, plex/mission/pvp behind the enemy lines and enjoy your couple of hours here and there.

There may be VERY MINOR inconviences for the casual pvp'er and the low sec station camper, but the benefits to everybody else (MASSIVE AMOUNTS of PVP) has been well worth it, IMO.

Sorry you guys had to take it on the chin. Hopefully CCP will implement a "kill all rats in plexes" requirement so you won't be able to complain about Occupancy Warfare any longer (not that you ever participated in it anyways) either.

What makes you think it will make a difference this time around? We have been feeding them "live data" since Empyrean Age was launched and have prior to this fiasco had negligible improvements made.
They claim that all is well and they are focusing on spaceships again .. but what good does that do when fixing what has grown into a fairly large niche "end-game" with no clue as to how it works (when it works) and what makes the participants tick?

They dropped the ball years ago and in their fervour to make amends after the ridiculous Jita-statue emo-rage debacle picked up the nearest ball-shaped item and ran with it .. problem is that item was giant round'ish turd.

But whatever. They implemented this station lockout and said they will reevaluate it later. I just want to know what criteria they will use to evaluate it. It seems to me there were so many changes to faction war that it will be impossible to tell what is causing what in any rational way.

[quote=Tekitha]

I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv

I think you can hold them.

There is no reason for the minmatar to take them. They already have more than enough systems to have a level 5 lp store to cash out their lp. If they haven't done that already, it is just due to a shortage minimal organization and or math skills.

stuff complaining about station lock out.