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New era for corp theft / thieves, bad for EvE

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Sue Malorie Caldari Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.07.29 21:55:00 - [1] It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now". Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc. Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others. There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all. Cheers, SM
Kirra Liu Cybertech Developments	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:10:00 - [2] What you say is incorrect I think. The thieves and scammers of Eve are a minority and always has been. The long-term scammers and thieves work hard at what they do and put a lot of time into it. Age has nothing to do with it, and saying that it's the under thirties is kinda lame as you have nothing whatsoever to back that figure up. There is always a way to protect your own assets and your corps assets, and that is to use your brain, most people don't seem to do that. I'm not talking about 100% securing a corps assets but making it so that if a member goes rogue that the corp is protected enough so that he cannot do extensive long term damage.
guska Cryotank Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:10:00 - [3] Just do what I do, and decentralise all my assets across multiple alts/accounts. uhhh... I mean... I have 17mil can I help?
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:15:00 - [4] The people that post and read the forums make up a very small percentage of the player population, it's true for all games out there. What you see on the forums in not representative of the game as a whole I don't think. I doubt that corp theft is running rampant in EVE, and it's the director's fault for ****ing up the roles if it happens in most cases.
Haunting	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:16:00 - [5] can I join your corp ?
Kirra Liu Cybertech Developments	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Haunting can I join your corp ? Obviously trying to get in and steal from you. If you like I can join your corp and ensure that all security is taken care of. All I require is Directors roles.
Sue Malorie Caldari Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:33:00 - [7] Well, I can agree that is not huge problem with corp theft, but it's more common these days than before. Specially when there are legal way to earn alot of isk in a fast way. I do not like the direction it takes. Me thinks more and more corp and alliances set themselves invite only, but it makes harder for honest peoples to join. Cheers, Sm
Xiao LoPan	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:53:00 - [8] Personally, I think scamming is good for eve, I didn't follow eve at all until I read about the GHSC heist, how many new players did eve get from the ebank scandal? I would guess quite a few. Getting scammed sucks, but if ccp were to take action against scammers it would really break down the freewheeling nature of eve.
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.29 23:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Sue Malorie It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now". Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc. Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others. There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all. Cheers, SM "Sadly I do blame the [age, sex, race, class] for [problem] (sad, but true). [And by the way, I offer nothing in the way of proof to back up my claim.]" Bigot. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Haunting	Posted - 2009.07.29 23:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Kirra Liu Originally by: Haunting can I join your corp ? Obviously trying to get in and steal from you. If you like I can join your corp and ensure that all security is taken care of. All I require is Directors roles. Petioned for great justice and truth! I am the most honest person in c&p. Can I join your corp ?

Jonny 101 Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.29 23:08:00 - [11] What on earth are you talking about, people are more law abiding and honourable than ever before. Eve-online - A game where you can trust people!
Taram Caldar GK inc.	Posted - 2009.07.29 23:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Sue Malorie It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now". Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc. Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others. There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all. Cheers, SM Actually if you were paying attention most of the recent corp thefts were by people who weren't even supposed to have roles in the first place. Seriously... giving a Dread to a brand new corp member? Giving a 24 day member roles that allow them to access corp hangars AND to offline and unanchor pos??? Even the, now infamous, alliance disbandment of BoB was caused by someone being given roles they shouldn't have had in the first place. No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.30 00:25:00 - [13] let's see what corp I can theift now
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.30 01:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Panzram let's see what corp I can theift now I think your already in the best corp to theift from TBH....
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.07.30 01:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Taram Caldar No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game. This. A thousand times this. It's not hard to avoid scams and corp theft in Eve. You just have to pay attention to what's happening around you. Of course it probably helps that I'm a cynical wench with a paranoid streak wide enough to land a jumbo jet on it. --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Herty The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention	Posted - 2009.07.30 01:51:00 - [16] People dont really scam they just have people saying they do. Infact I give people double the isk they send me and sometimes even triple!!!
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.30 01:53:00 - [17] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Taram Caldar No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game. This. A thousand times this. It's not hard to avoid scams and corp theft in Eve. You just have to pay attention to what's happening around you. Of course it probably helps that I'm a cynical wench with a paranoid streak wide enough to land a jumbo jet on it. Paying attention will stop the smash and grab.. As thats pretty much all im seeing these days I would say you've hit the nail on the head.. REAL corp thieves spend months to even years infiltrating a corp and clean out EVERYTHING when they leave.. These are hard to spot as they intentionally went in with the concept of fooling you and will play nice to do it. There comes a point in a corps life where it has to trust some of its members. That point ISN'T when they are a 5 man operation with 500M in assets, but when you have a 1000 man alliance, it just cant all be done by one person.. The current spate of corp theft can easily be stopped.. Real thieves will never be stopped.
Anorganic Gallente Dark Revival Synergy deadspace society	Posted - 2009.07.30 02:17:00 - [18] can i have your stuff?
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.30 08:29:00 - [19] I like how you blame new players, yet the news of classic heist's and scams attracted a good percentage of honest newcomers. Maybe its just the internet and anonymity making buttheads out of people. One 'problem' is it's ridiculously easy to extract money from the playerbase. 2 days ago I offered to buy a faction laser for 8m and the guy contracted me the laser + a payment of 8m I repaid him since I'd just sold 3 frigs for 200-250m each through legitimate means. Scammers should die (ingame) Assets are a privelige not a right. If you grant someone the means to take them don't be surprised if they are reallocated. I'm going to eve general now to find your QQ about losing mission running ships to NPC griefers. ----
Xelios Xarxes	Posted - 2009.07.30 08:34:00 - [20] All I got from this post was, "I'm old and bitter."

Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.07.30 12:58:00 - [21] I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image.
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.30 13:13:00 - [22] Can you imagine what it would look like if everybody who has NEVER been corp thieved posted on these forums? Seriously. Try to imagine it.
sir gankalot	Posted - 2009.07.30 16:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Tiny Tove Can you imagine what it would look like if everybody who has NEVER been corp thieved posted on these forums? Seriously. Try to imagine it. Confirming I've never been corp thieved.
Tesal	Posted - 2009.07.30 18:06:00 - [24] Here is how you reduce risk. 1. Compartmentalize. 2. Record risk factors on a spread sheet, include behavior, past incidents with players, include their friends and associates, and all of their past corps and past CEO and known associates. 3. Compare data sources and every link to a risk factor, track it down and verify it. 4. Find ways to draw out information, perform a very complete interview, ask leading questions and draw them out. 5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on. 6. Do not ask for advanced information right away, ask for it as you need it. Most people will not maintain these records, so if you ask for it as you see the need, a fake profile may begin to fall apart. 7. Not everyone who fails a background check is a thief or spy. Too bad. Get rid of them anyway.
Jonny 101 Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.30 18:11:00 - [25] Our policy in exalted. was always to recruit the worst s****we could possibly find, the more corp thefts and scams the better. Worked fantastically, hardly anything to robbed and that all got robbed by people with "honest" pasts, all the directors were thieves and scammers, you can always trust those guys <3 at least they're honest! :)
Kirra Liu Cybertech Developments	Posted - 2009.07.30 18:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image. I tried that with lego but ran out of bricks after I built the police station
General Discontent Caldari XERCORE Cult of War	Posted - 2009.07.30 18:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image. There is probably some truth to that. You showed what could be done. BUT. EVE is a lot of different things to alot of different players. I don't think scamming or corp thievery is as big a problem as an hour reading through the forums would make it seem. My experience with most of the players in the corps I've been in have been positive, and I would classify corpmates as often very helpful, and to this point trustworthy. But then I may have gotten lucky with the first bunch of "friends" I made in game. Don't get me wrong, Security is taken seriously, the CEO's seem to be fairly reserved in giving roles / rights, and I'd hesitate before contracting all my stuffs to someone for transport even in corp or alliance that wasn't a "known quantity". But if you practice a little common sense, you are pretty safe from petty thieves. If you leave the garage door open in RL, your bicycle will eventually be stolen. Count on it. Pretty much the same thing here. If a "professional" thief targets you all bets are off, but there are only a handful of them in game.
Madman Alhazred	Posted - 2009.07.30 19:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Tesal Here is how you reduce risk. 1. Compartmentalize. 2. Record risk factors on a spread sheet, include behavior, past incidents with players, include their friends and associates, and all of their past corps and past CEO and known associates. 3. Compare data sources and every link to a risk factor, track it down and verify it. 4. Find ways to draw out information, perform a very complete interview, ask leading questions and draw them out. 5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on. 6. Do not ask for advanced information right away, ask for it as you need it. Most people will not maintain these records, so if you ask for it as you see the need, a fake profile may begin to fall apart. 7. Not everyone who fails a background check is a thief or spy. Too bad. Get rid of them anyway. If you really take this game so seriously that you think you need to have their "name, address, phone, facebook and so on", to be secure, then you really shouldn't be playing this game. There would be no reason for you to need that unless you plan on using it to "get even" in real life... which takes it quite a bit past a little too far.
Kirra Liu Cybertech Developments	Posted - 2009.07.30 19:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Tesal Here is how you reduce risk. 5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on. Why would you ask for their home address, telephone number and facebook details. If a corp requested that from me I would tell them where to stick it. So.... someone steals from your corp, what you going to do? Turn up at their home and teach them a lesson, harass them with calls day and night and post crap on facebook about them? That is the only reason I could see someone wanting this info and people like that need to take their medication. Oh and if I added you to my facebook group, you would see that I am have a good group of friends and that I like to play farmville (level 18 WOOT), but it doesn't mean I wouldn't take you for everything you own in Eve if given the chance.
Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.07.30 20:14:00 - [30] I'm sorry, The only reason any corp gets robbed is due to the CEO's being stupid. You have 100% control over who has access to what. Now It's true at some point you have to trust someone to help you, but its not going to be that guy that joined my corp 6 months ago or 2 years ago, its going to be that guy I made friends with, and knew before I started this corp, not 100% but just because you do time in a corp, doesn't mean you have earned the trust needed. Now, since it is true and you do have to trust some people to run a corp well, there are measures to take to limit what you lose. 1. Lock all bpo's and never allow take access from the bpo hangers 2. Never give the director role to anyone you don't know and trust in real life. 3. When giving roles to people, only give them what they need, Titles make this very easy after its all setup. If they are the mining director, give them access to the mining hanger and wallet, nothing else. if they are fleet or combat/security director give them access to the fleet hanger and wallet and nothing else. Of course these are examples but you get the point. 4. Always preform a back round check, get there api, check how much isk they have for there age, and see if they have the skills they claim to have, check the forums to see if they have been sold, or are a listed thief, have said or done anything stupid or sloppy that you don't want in your corp. Check Greifwatch and Battleclinic's KB's and see if they have popped anything that might have got posted. 5. Never grant temp access to anything that a member normally wouldn't have access to, ever. 6. Don't give out shares, I know this is something that takes a little thinking, but its not worth the hassle, if you want to vote on things, then use a forum poll option. 7. Don't share account info, with anyone, (duh you say? I know a moron that lost everything like this) (yes he got banned after he petitioned it lol) 8. Don't use SMA's to store corp members ships, and if you do, don't allow access to it by anyone but a director in your corp. 9. Use common sense when someone is acting like to much of a nub, or someone know's to much for there age (I have seen obvious older players, playing nub pilots stealing stuff) 10. Last and most important, is never give anyone access to more then 1/2 of the corps assets.



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