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Sue Malorie
Caldari
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2009.07.29 21:55:00 -
[1]
It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now".
Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc.
Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others.
There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all.
Cheers,
SM
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Kirra Liu
Cybertech Developments
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:10:00 -
[2]
What you say is incorrect I think. The thieves and scammers of Eve are a minority and always has been. The long-term scammers and thieves work hard at what they do and put a lot of time into it. Age has nothing to do with it, and saying that it's the under thirties is kinda lame as you have nothing whatsoever to back that figure up.
There is always a way to protect your own assets and your corps assets, and that is to use your brain, most people don't seem to do that. I'm not talking about 100% securing a corps assets but making it so that if a member goes rogue that the corp is protected enough so that he cannot do extensive long term damage.
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guska Cryotank
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:10:00 -
[3]
Just do what I do, and decentralise all my assets across multiple alts/accounts.
uhhh...
I mean...
I have 17mil can I help?
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:15:00 -
[4]
The people that post and read the forums make up a very small percentage of the player population, it's true for all games out there.
What you see on the forums in not representative of the game as a whole I don't think. I doubt that corp theft is running rampant in EVE, and it's the director's fault for ****ing up the roles if it happens in most cases.
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Haunting
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:16:00 -
[5]
can I join your corp ?
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Kirra Liu
Cybertech Developments
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:29:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Haunting
can I join your corp ?
Obviously trying to get in and steal from you. If you like I can join your corp and ensure that all security is taken care of. All I require is Directors roles.
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Sue Malorie
Caldari
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:33:00 -
[7]
Well, I can agree that is not huge problem with corp theft, but it's more common these days than before. Specially when there are legal way to earn alot of isk in a fast way. I do not like the direction it takes.
Me thinks more and more corp and alliances set themselves invite only, but it makes harder for honest peoples to join.
Cheers,
Sm
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Xiao LoPan
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:53:00 -
[8]
Personally, I think scamming is good for eve,
I didn't follow eve at all until I read about the GHSC heist,
how many new players did eve get from the ebank scandal? I would guess quite a few. Getting scammed sucks, but if ccp were to take action against scammers it would really break down the freewheeling nature of eve.
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Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sue Malorie
It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now".
Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc.
Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others.
There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all.
Cheers,
SM
"Sadly I do blame the [age, sex, race, class] for [problem] (sad, but true). [And by the way, I offer nothing in the way of proof to back up my claim.]"
Bigot.
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Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Haunting
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kirra Liu
Originally by: Haunting
can I join your corp ?
Obviously trying to get in and steal from you. If you like I can join your corp and ensure that all security is taken care of. All I require is Directors roles.
Petioned for great justice and truth!
I am the most honest person in c&p.
Can I join your corp ?
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Jonny 101
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:08:00 -
[11]
What on earth are you talking about, people are more law abiding and honourable than ever before.
Eve-online - A game where you can trust people!
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Taram Caldar
GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sue Malorie
It's seems like from reading all these posts in C&P and some in COAD that there are less honest player left in the game. EvE seems to be more like a zone where "everyone scams everyone" and "let's see what corp I can theift now".
Some folks have an idea of a corp or an alliance, build it by step_by step, hire some trustworthy players and work hard to setup POS, stations, getting high SOV in 0.0 etc.... buying expensive BPOs (Caps etc) and start production of caps they want to use in pvp (fleet combat). Suddenly there one lamah empty corp / alliance wallet, steals cap ships etc.
Sadly I do blame the young players for that (sad, but true). When I roam space from high sec to 0.0 I do speak to alot of folks and it seems the adult ones (age above 30 - take or give a few year) seems more honest and play more fair, meaning they don't steal or doing any theft to harm others.
There may be som dissagrement inside a corp / alliance that leads to such huge theft, but corp / alliance theft is low life business whatever corp / alliance get looted. Anyway, this theft business will kill alot of fun of working hard to form a corp / alliance and I hope CEOs around the internet spaceship spacesystems (high sec to 0.0) are more carefully to give out roles. There are no honour by stealing, it's a work of worms, dirty, bad smelling worms whitch do no good at all.
Cheers,
SM
Actually if you were paying attention most of the recent corp thefts were by people who weren't even supposed to have roles in the first place.
Seriously... giving a Dread to a brand new corp member? Giving a 24 day member roles that allow them to access corp hangars AND to offline and unanchor pos???
Even the, now infamous, alliance disbandment of BoB was caused by someone being given roles they shouldn't have had in the first place.
No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game.
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Panzram
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:25:00 -
[13]
let's see what corp I can theift now
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Panzram
let's see what corp I can theift now
I think your already in the best corp to theift from TBH....
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game.
This.
A thousand times this. It's not hard to avoid scams and corp theft in Eve. You just have to pay attention to what's happening around you.
Of course it probably helps that I'm a cynical wench with a paranoid streak wide enough to land a jumbo jet on it.
--Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Herty
The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:51:00 -
[16]
People dont really scam they just have people saying they do. Infact I give people double the isk they send me and sometimes even triple!!!
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Taram Caldar
No, I'd say the recent rash of corp theft is just a symptom of a greater number of stupid CEO's in the game.
This.
A thousand times this. It's not hard to avoid scams and corp theft in Eve. You just have to pay attention to what's happening around you.
Of course it probably helps that I'm a cynical wench with a paranoid streak wide enough to land a jumbo jet on it.
Paying attention will stop the smash and grab.. As thats pretty much all im seeing these days I would say you've hit the nail on the head.. REAL corp thieves spend months to even years infiltrating a corp and clean out EVERYTHING when they leave.. These are hard to spot as they intentionally went in with the concept of fooling you and will play nice to do it.
There comes a point in a corps life where it has to trust some of its members. That point ISN'T when they are a 5 man operation with 500M in assets, but when you have a 1000 man alliance, it just cant all be done by one person.. The current spate of corp theft can easily be stopped.. Real thieves will never be stopped.
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Anorganic
Gallente
Dark Revival Synergy
deadspace society
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Posted - 2009.07.30 02:17:00 -
[18]
can i have your stuff?
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Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.07.30 08:29:00 -
[19]
I like how you blame new players, yet the news of classic heist's and scams attracted a good percentage of honest newcomers. Maybe its just the internet and anonymity making buttheads out of people.
One 'problem' is it's ridiculously easy to extract money from the playerbase. 2 days ago I offered to buy a faction laser for 8m and the guy contracted me the laser + a payment of 8m  I repaid him since I'd just sold 3 frigs for 200-250m each through legitimate means.
Scammers should die (ingame)
Assets are a privelige not a right. If you grant someone the means to take them don't be surprised if they are reallocated.
I'm going to eve general now to find your QQ about losing mission running ships to NPC griefers.
----
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Xelios Xarxes
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Posted - 2009.07.30 08:34:00 -
[20]
All I got from this post was, "I'm old and bitter."
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:58:00 -
[21]
I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.30 13:13:00 -
[22]
Can you imagine what it would look like if everybody who has NEVER been corp thieved posted on these forums?
Seriously. Try to imagine it.
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sir gankalot
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Posted - 2009.07.30 16:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Can you imagine what it would look like if everybody who has NEVER been corp thieved posted on these forums?
Seriously. Try to imagine it.
Confirming I've never been corp thieved.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.07.30 18:06:00 -
[24]
Here is how you reduce risk.
1. Compartmentalize.
2. Record risk factors on a spread sheet, include behavior, past incidents with players, include their friends and associates, and all of their past corps and past CEO and known associates.
3. Compare data sources and every link to a risk factor, track it down and verify it.
4. Find ways to draw out information, perform a very complete interview, ask leading questions and draw them out.
5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on.
6. Do not ask for advanced information right away, ask for it as you need it. Most people will not maintain these records, so if you ask for it as you see the need, a fake profile may begin to fall apart.
7. Not everyone who fails a background check is a thief or spy. Too bad. Get rid of them anyway.
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Jonny 101
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.30 18:11:00 -
[25]
Our policy in exalted. was always to recruit the worst s****we could possibly find, the more corp thefts and scams the better.
Worked fantastically, hardly anything to robbed and that all got robbed by people with "honest" pasts, all the directors were thieves and scammers, you can always trust those guys <3 at least they're honest! :)
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Kirra Liu
Cybertech Developments
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Posted - 2009.07.30 18:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image.
I tried that with lego but ran out of bricks after I built the police station 
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General Discontent
Caldari
XERCORE
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.07.30 18:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I have taken the world, and rebuilt it in my own image.
There is probably some truth to that. You showed what could be done.
BUT. EVE is a lot of different things to alot of different players. I don't think scamming or corp thievery is as big a problem as an hour reading through the forums would make it seem. My experience with most of the players in the corps I've been in have been positive, and I would classify corpmates as often very helpful, and to this point trustworthy.
But then I may have gotten lucky with the first bunch of "friends" I made in game.
Don't get me wrong, Security is taken seriously, the CEO's seem to be fairly reserved in giving roles / rights, and I'd hesitate before contracting all my stuffs to someone for transport even in corp or alliance that wasn't a "known quantity". But if you practice a little common sense, you are pretty safe from petty thieves. If you leave the garage door open in RL, your bicycle will eventually be stolen. Count on it. Pretty much the same thing here.
If a "professional" thief targets you all bets are off, but there are only a handful of them in game.
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Madman Alhazred
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Posted - 2009.07.30 19:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tesal
Here is how you reduce risk.
1. Compartmentalize.
2. Record risk factors on a spread sheet, include behavior, past incidents with players, include their friends and associates, and all of their past corps and past CEO and known associates.
3. Compare data sources and every link to a risk factor, track it down and verify it.
4. Find ways to draw out information, perform a very complete interview, ask leading questions and draw them out.
5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on.
6. Do not ask for advanced information right away, ask for it as you need it. Most people will not maintain these records, so if you ask for it as you see the need, a fake profile may begin to fall apart.
7. Not everyone who fails a background check is a thief or spy. Too bad. Get rid of them anyway.
If you really take this game so seriously that you think you need to have their "name, address, phone, facebook and so on", to be secure, then you really shouldn't be playing this game. There would be no reason for you to need that unless you plan on using it to "get even" in real life... which takes it quite a bit past a little too far.
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Kirra Liu
Cybertech Developments
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Posted - 2009.07.30 19:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tesal
Here is how you reduce risk.
5. If you need absolute security you need to consider out of game methods, like name, address, phone, facebook and so on.
Why would you ask for their home address, telephone number and facebook details. If a corp requested that from me I would tell them where to stick it. So.... someone steals from your corp, what you going to do? Turn up at their home and teach them a lesson, harass them with calls day and night and post crap on facebook about them? That is the only reason I could see someone wanting this info and people like that need to take their medication.
Oh and if I added you to my facebook group, you would see that I am have a good group of friends and that I like to play farmville (level 18 WOOT), but it doesn't mean I wouldn't take you for everything you own in Eve if given the chance. 
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Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:14:00 -
[30]
I'm sorry, The only reason any corp gets robbed is due to the CEO's being stupid. You have 100% control over who has access to what. Now It's true at some point you have to trust someone to help you, but its not going to be that guy that joined my corp 6 months ago or 2 years ago, its going to be that guy I made friends with, and knew before I started this corp, not 100% but just because you do time in a corp, doesn't mean you have earned the trust needed.
Now, since it is true and you do have to trust some people to run a corp well, there are measures to take to limit what you lose.
1. Lock all bpo's and never allow take access from the bpo hangers
2. Never give the director role to anyone you don't know and trust in real life.
3. When giving roles to people, only give them what they need, Titles make this very easy after its all setup. If they are the mining director, give them access to the mining hanger and wallet, nothing else. if they are fleet or combat/security director give them access to the fleet hanger and wallet and nothing else. Of course these are examples but you get the point.
4. Always preform a back round check, get there api, check how much isk they have for there age, and see if they have the skills they claim to have, check the forums to see if they have been sold, or are a listed thief, have said or done anything stupid or sloppy that you don't want in your corp. Check Greifwatch and Battleclinic's KB's and see if they have popped anything that might have got posted.
5. Never grant temp access to anything that a member normally wouldn't have access to, ever.
6. Don't give out shares, I know this is something that takes a little thinking, but its not worth the hassle, if you want to vote on things, then use a forum poll option.
7. Don't share account info, with anyone, (duh you say? I know a moron that lost everything like this) (yes he got banned after he petitioned it lol)
8. Don't use SMA's to store corp members ships, and if you do, don't allow access to it by anyone but a director in your corp.
9. Use common sense when someone is acting like to much of a nub, or someone know's to much for there age (I have seen obvious older players, playing nub pilots stealing stuff)
10. Last and most important, is never give anyone access to more then 1/2 of the corps assets.
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Swalesey
Prosperity Through Violence
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:54:00 -
[31]
Well, to be honest what do you expect? this kind of behaviour is EXACTLY why I like eve. Not because people do it, but because people are allowed to do it. The further eve moves away from been a harsh version or real ligfe with little or no consequence for your actions the less I will like it.
Give people tools to build, andf it's only gonna be a matter of time before they break the safety guards off and smash each other to death with em. Game on! 
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:19:00 -
[32]
There were two large "story" threads by pirates, each a few years apart. I read both of them last year.
The first one was pretty good. Lots of stories of rich industrialist types getting ransomed, major PVP battle upsets, tables turned, and surprises brought about by good tactics and calling bluffs.
The second one was mostly about people befriending noobs, luring them out to lowsec, and killing them, all the while making fun of them.
Once, while haunting a WH, I noticed the gank and spank Americans logged off (my fellow failed countrymen of this fallen ....ah I'll spare it this time) and the eastern Europeans logged on, and the ganking stopped. Heck the guy with the low sec stats in the covops started to help the noob missioners. There was no reason to kill each other, therefore... though the Russians are always better at PVP.
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Ace Secunda
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.08.08 12:57:00 -
[33]
So far we have had over a 100 members in corp and only 2 corp thieves. 2% isn't an unbearable amount of criminality as long as you learn from the thefts and try to make the corp more secure.
CCP really needs to fix ship arrays and corporate hangars so that every time a member takes an item or ship it audits this so that you can post screenshots on this forum PROVING without a doubt who the thief is. This may not make the area physically anymore secure but its a much bigger deterant for scumbags.
'If I can't blow it up It don't exsist'
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Corporate Thief
Caldari
Code Triage
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Posted - 2009.08.08 21:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ace Secunda
So far we have had over a 100 members in corp and only 2 corp thieves. 2% isn't an unbearable amount of criminality as long as you learn from the thefts and try to make the corp more secure.
CCP really needs to fix ship arrays and corporate hangars so that every time a member takes an item or ship it audits this so that you can post screenshots on this forum PROVING without a doubt who the thief is. This may not make the area physically anymore secure but its a much bigger deterant for scumbags.
Secure Audit Log Containers (name is similar, at least) already exist as a way to track who takes what. Just because you don't want to deal with the cans doesn't mean CCP should hold your hand on the issue. If you want more anti-thief tips, contact me in-game (a small fee applies, teaching people how to stop me from doing my job hurts business  ).
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.08.08 21:46:00 -
[35]
3 Things come to mind about this subject
1: Its a minority thing because most thefts are small and pathetic.
2: The ones you hear about are typically drama queens and rarely true to begin with (except for that Got Cofee one... wow)
3: Security... honestly... if you give power to a member without the test of time and effort... and your foolish enough not to employ security tools such as API and what not... your a moron waiting to get picked clean.
There are far worse things in this game than thieves.
Anyone with half a brain will take the time to plan out an effective system to stop them.
But no system is perfect... the ones that ruin the game are the people who stay with you for over 6 months... with established trust... fun times... good times... good memories.. then screw you over.
THAT... ruins the game.
Not the theft itself mind you... but the mentality of some of the people who would go so far as to do such filthy things? Thats wrong.
But 9 times out of 10 its just an idiot leaving his front door to his house unlocked screaming for justice.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Joseph Foster
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.08 21:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kirra Liu
The thieves and scammers of Eve are a minority and always has been.
This is true. If you browse C&P for long enough, you'll notice that it's really the same 100-or-so people that are posting their nefarious deeds or are being posted about. A very minute number when you consider there's 200,000+ players in EVE.
Originally by: Xiao LoPan
Personally, I think scamming is good for eve,
I didn't follow eve at all until I read about the GHSC heist.
Also true. It was reading about this particular scam on CNET that got me into playing this game in the first place. And since playing, I've found a niche of my own that I like to play that is not scamming/pirating. In fact, I'm working up to start my own small transport/shipping business, a rather common job that's a world away from the posts normally found here.
Oh yeah, to would be pirates: This is NOT the alt I plan on running this little entrepreneurship through, so don't bother. 
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