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Haack Mah
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.08.03 01:28:00 -
[1]
To many times have I seen an enemy jump through a gate, and burn back while being double webed by a rapier. MWDing Bs'es still go 100m/s + Vaga's 500m/s +. Rapier needs its usless target painter bonues change to a web strength bonus. Seriously who fits a target painter to a rapier anyway.
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Orb Lati
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.03 01:34:00 -
[2]
And whats really makes this a slap in the face to Mini Pilots.
Amarr Paladin: 10% bonus to velocity factor of Stasis Webifers per level. 
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.03 01:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/08/2009 01:36:16
Bump the enemy away? Use a third web on another ship? Apply more damage?
I see several solutions to your problem. None of them includes a change to the Rapier.
Granted, target painters should be boosted, a bit on the module itself, and a bit on the ships which have a bonus.
But that's about it.
-edit-
Fit a warp scrambler on any of your ships..
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.03 03:32:00 -
[4]
Rapier has been obsolete sense the Great Nano Nerf
It'd be better if CCP reversed all of those horrible game changes.
Otherwise, it needs a web bonus similar to Paladin and Kronos - to be truly useful as pvp ship
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AngryMax
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.08.03 03:35:00 -
[5]
Yes CCP, reverse the nano nerf. Problem solved.
I still try to fly the Rapier, but unless its T2 frig or T1 cruiser its pretty much a useless ship. Where before i tackled everything, including other HAC's.
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TentPegg
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:50:00 -
[6]
Gotta agree. Give the Rapier/Huginn a bonus to what its good at....It hasn't got the DPS to be anything but a tackler, and due to the web nerf its failing in this task as well
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Dex Timor
Forza Di Colpo
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Haack Mah
... MWDing Bs'es still go 100m/s + Vaga's 500m/s +...
Warp scramblers don't shut off MWD anymore ? Did I miss a nerf ?
Seriously, I think every ship should be a solowtfbbq-mobile. Would make eve much better.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:13:00 -
[8]
Minmatar EW boats exist to make it easier to hit ****.
If your fleet is flying fast things (like cruisers or frigates), then you use TPs since it helps you hit regardless of whether the angular velocity is caused by you or the target.
If your fleet is flying slower things and fighting against fast things, then you use a web since the angular velocity is being caused solely by the target.
If your fleet is fighting BC/BS and you have absolutely no issues with hit quality whatsoever...then why bring a rapier?
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Barrus Inane
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:27:00 -
[9]
I don't see what is bad about the rapier aside from you cannot be a cloaking solo gankboat.
longer range web, powerful painter, looks like an arti ship to me, when with other large gun ships, would make an immense difference for a battleship to hit smaller targets. It is a more support ship, boo hoo?
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Anna Hansson
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:24:00 -
[10]
yeah hell, the rapier got hit with the nerf bat, but look at the damn falcon, they cut it's range to a quater.
The rapier ain't worse then any other recon now, they are all diffrent but they all have there fields where they shine
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It'd be better if CCP reversed all of those horrible game changes.
No.
Nano was stupid, anyone who can not see that has no real percpective of the game as a whole.
As for all the changes thy made, well, they hit webs a tad too hard imo, as did they a few missile systems.
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:59:00 -
[12]
Disagree.
Webs were way, way, way overpowered. You're biasing your opinion on how it used to be. To a new player webs on rapiers/huginns look just fine.
The web change prevents targets being fully immobilised and puts the rapier/huginn back in line with other ewar cruisers, at least the amarr/gallente ones....not sure about the falcon or rook yet as I've not been able to play since the ECM change.
Minnie e-war cruisers are there to dictate the range of an engagement with their webs, not to immobilise every ship they web. They still do this.
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Schmell
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:26
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:17
Originally by: Barrus Inane
looks like
That`s the point, it does not help really. Tp`s are useless **** as they were before nano nerf
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Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:14:00 -
[14]
Don't be lazy... use a drag bubble and be one with the Rapier. 
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:24:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/08/2009 15:25:19
Originally by: Schmell
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:26
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:17
Originally by: Barrus Inane
looks like
That`s the point, it does not help really. Tp`s are useless **** as they were before nano nerf
They could be useful if they had DOUBLE the range. Then they could help fleet battleships. Also their bonus must be a bit higher. A Bellicose hull should make 60% painting with a t2.
Other option that woudl make LOTS of people happy. Give scripts to TP. One works like now.
Then add a Defensive script. that LOWERS the signature of the ship you painting. That woudl be very helpful to support the ships in your gang.
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Anna Hansson
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/08/2009 15:25:19
Originally by: Schmell
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:26
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:17
Originally by: Barrus Inane
looks like
That`s the point, it does not help really. Tp`s are useless **** as they were before nano nerf
They could be useful if they had DOUBLE the range. Then they could help fleet battleships. Also their bonus must be a bit higher. A Bellicose hull should make 60% painting with a t2.
Other option that woudl make LOTS of people happy. Give scripts to TP. One works like now.
Then add a Defensive script. that LOWERS the signature of the ship you painting. That woudl be very helpful to support the ships in your gang.
If you would give rapiers that kind of range, then we are back with the falcon problem.
Force recons shouldn't be able to slugg it ut with battleships, thats why they nerfed ECM and the falcon in the first place.
Rapiers are good as they are, great tacklers and realy good at restricting movement, they won't stop you dead,
but will take away 3/4 of your speed, that is enough to let your cruisers and hacs catch up to the target or stop it from catching up to your long range elements.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Anna Hansson
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/08/2009 15:25:19
Originally by: Schmell
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:26
Edited by: Schmell on 04/08/2009 15:02:17
Originally by: Barrus Inane
looks like
That`s the point, it does not help really. Tp`s are useless **** as they were before nano nerf
They could be useful if they had DOUBLE the range. Then they could help fleet battleships. Also their bonus must be a bit higher. A Bellicose hull should make 60% painting with a t2.
Other option that woudl make LOTS of people happy. Give scripts to TP. One works like now.
Then add a Defensive script. that LOWERS the signature of the ship you painting. That woudl be very helpful to support the ships in your gang.
If you would give rapiers that kind of range, then we are back with the falcon problem.
Force recons shouldn't be able to slugg it ut with battleships, thats why they nerfed ECM and the falcon in the first place.
Rapiers are good as they are, great tacklers and realy good at restricting movement, they won't stop you dead,
but will take away 3/4 of your speed, that is enough to let your cruisers and hacs catch up to the target or stop it from catching up to your long range elements.
target painter effect is nowhere near the effect of ECM they do not disable anyone. THey amke you 30% larger LOL at comparing that to ECM. A falcon could disable 2 BS from a fight. A rapier with extended range target paitenrs could HELP sniepr ships hit cruisers.. A HUGE difference.
TP as of now are almost useless unless you use torpedoes. Specially in a rapier that can fit a web that is far more efficient than a painter into making a target easy to hit.
There is simply NO WAY to compare ECM, Neutralizers track disruptors agaisnt target painters. Webs and Points are on same level of strenght. Target painters are the least powerful of ALL ewar. They should have the longest range.
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Acobar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:36:00 -
[18]
Rapier does need a small bonus to its web, I believe. Right now, two webs are enough only to control range, not to pin the tackled ship down. The latter can be done with three webs, but then Rapier is a one trick pony, which a) is a way too severe reduction from its previous role and b) is not really on par with the other three recons (there can be discussion about it, but all in all, it's not).
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:05:00 -
[19]
I've often thought target painters would me better as a high slot item.
I know its annoying but rapiers aint ment to allow you to insta gank everything that comes though a gate, webs ae a bit underpowered I think, but it should be webs given a small boost without the rapier requireing a special bonus.
Besides boosting web strenght wouldn't prevent other ships bolting back to the gate as often its the inertia they've achieved before you lock them that carries them back into jump range.
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There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:06:00 -
[20]
Acobar pretty much nailed it in his post. Webs (and thus Rapier/Hugginn) are no longer the Alpha-Omega of tackle gear.
All of the gate burning fools are stopped dead by a single web AND a scrambler. While using a scrambler may not suit the stand-off'ish play style of the average Rapier pilot that in itself does not make the Rapier "useless".
The 24-30km point and uber-web are things of the past, the Rapier can no longer solo over half the ships in game with impunity .. the 90%-iWin button is gone and good riddance.
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AngryMax
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.08.05 11:10:00 -
[21]
Nanoes werent overpowered as they werent really that heavy on DPS to begin with. It was very effective way to tackle blobs with some success. It was never an "i win" button.
A well picked target is always an "i win". Nano allowed for jumping into middle of unknown chaos and being able to actually have some success without sitting there for hours gathering intel to make sure there arent gangs in nearby systems, waiting, wasting time.
Maybe to some people this is the EvE they love, i prefer to log in kill something and move on with my day.
GIVE US SPEED BACK CPP.
Quote:
No.
Nano was stupid, anyone who can not see that has no real percpective of the game as a whole.
As for all the changes thy made, well, they hit webs a tad too hard imo, as did they a few missile systems.
No. Nano was not stupid, anyone who can not see that has no real percpective of the game as a whole.
Thanks for your solid reasoning. Its a pleasure to see such deep penetrating intellect grace the forums.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.05 12:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AngryMax
Nanoes werent overpowered as they werent really that heavy on DPS to begin with. It was very effective way to tackle blobs with some success. It was never an "i win" button.
A well picked target is always an "i win". Nano allowed for jumping into middle of unknown chaos and being able to actually have some success without sitting there for hours gathering intel to make sure there arent gangs in nearby systems, waiting, wasting time.
Maybe to some people this is the EvE they love, i prefer to log in kill something and move on with my day.
GIVE US SPEED BACK CPP.
Quote:
No.
Nano was stupid, anyone who can not see that has no real percpective of the game as a whole.
As for all the changes thy made, well, they hit webs a tad too hard imo, as did they a few missile systems.
No. Nano was not stupid, anyone who can not see that has no real percpective of the game as a whole.
Thanks for your solid reasoning. Its a pleasure to see such deep penetrating intellect grace the forums.
Same to you.
Nano was indeed bad. Fly in, and fly out, unharmed. Either you nano or gtfo. Or use a spesific setup to counter nano.
That makes bad game play.
Now you need dedicated ships, and its more focused on ship roles. Speed is till importent, and rang now plas a role as well.
If you do not see that, I suggest you get a small ship and just try it. "Nano" is still alive when done right, but one gotta dictate range as well.
It used to maby not be "I win", but it was "I win, or gtfo".
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.05 12:29:00 -
[23]
Rapier, and Arazu. 2point mwd disabling scram.
problem solved.
Dark Materials |
Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.08.05 14:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Rapier, and Arazu. 2point mwd disabling scram.
problem solved.
This.
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Pearly Whites
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Posted - 2009.08.05 14:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Nano was indeed bad. Fly in, and fly out, unharmed. Either you nano or gtfo. Or use a spesific setup to counter nano.
That makes bad game play.
Now you need dedicated ships, and its more focused on ship roles. Speed is till importent, and rang now plas a role as well.
tbh, and not wishing to revive a nano debate, but nano's where "easely" countered by just fitting neuts...
Its because people never adapted/where stuck in they way of thinking ("bring moar gunz kk ?) that everything went to hell.
Just fitting neuts on a Raven for instance used to counter:
- Nano
- Active Tanks
- Interceptors
just you had to choose to fit for the eventuality...
Anyways, having the rapier get a 5% buff to its webs per level WOULD be nice though.
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4THELULZ
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:27:00 -
[26]
Please contract your Rapiers over to my friends who have a clue how to use it. Thanks.
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rubico1337
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Posted - 2009.08.05 19:09:00 -
[27]
rapiers dominate the wet dreams of stelthbombers 
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.06 01:12:00 -
[28]
Agreed that Rapier/Huginn/Hyena should get at least a 5%/level bonus to web strength. Alternatively, a rig that increases web strength might work.
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Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 01:55:00 -
[29]
since we are actually in the F&I board I thought I'd throw an idea into this thread.
new webber module: Breaker
unlike the current webber module it has a instant effect on the targets current speed rather than a constant effect on the targets max speed. It would basically be like throwing up a brick wall in front of the enemy that they hit smash through then try to get back up to speed.
Give it a rof of about 20-30 seconds otherwise same stats as the current webbers.
Would be useful for a few things.
- preventing enemies from warping by delaying them reaching warp speed (would need more than 1 breaker to hold any ship permanantly).
- gives you something to stop enemies just using momentum to get back to the gate.
- Gives ships like the rapier an extra option, could go breakers + webbers for lots of stopping power and avoiding the stacking nerf you get from 4 webs.
- if timed with a volley from heavy guns (paladin) could make interesting combo.
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ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.08.06 05:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Haack Mah
Rapier needs its usless target painter bonues change to a web strength bonus.
Signed. No confidence that the Rapier can actually hold a target anymore. This ship used to be feared. Not any more.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.08.06 08:40:00 -
[31]
web is not supposed to stop the target completely! It's a WEB for slowing down ships and its done well by the rapier. Rapier != No solopwnmobil
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Antiquus Altercor
Minmatar
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
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Posted - 2009.08.06 10:36:00 -
[32]
Agreed the target painter bonus is useless on a Rapier. Surely CCP could have come up with something useful for the Rapier.
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