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ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 11:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Drexciyian Edited by: Drexciyian on 04/08/2009 10:16:42 Originally by: Ambo Looks nice. Unfortunatley, the returns are just way too low to justify the risk imo. 3% for the 'about-as-safe-as-you-can-get' ebank is the lowest I really consider worthwhile. With this, I can only get 3% if I leave isk there for 12 months and that won't even be compounded. Otherwise, it's just 1.5%. So if I put 10 billion at risk for a month then I'll earn around 150 mil. Not even enough to cover GTC. The fact that I can only put 1 billion in makes it even more pointless. I'm sure you'll find many who will be happy to throw their isk at you though. Good luck with it. I pointed this out before and got told they do it because they can due to theres alot of stupid people with alot of money out there ps Hi Ho And who from EVCR told you that? We are not here to prey on people we are here to provide people with isk, another isk steam.
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 11:35:00 - [32] Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 04/08/2009 03:32:59 Nice to see EBANKs plans and development placed in another Banks hands LOL Sorry for the small troll, but I can't help but notice a rather large list of things that are already in place or on the table for implementation at EBANK. Not that its a bad thing. Like I have said many times over EBANK is a testament to the fact that there is too much ISK in EVE, and that EVE needs more Banks. I noticed this line here - Bank-Level Deposit Cap: The ability to set a cap on how much ISK can be in interest-bearing savings and CoD accounts, per account type and for the bank as a whole. Care to elaborate on this? The way it reads is you set a limit to say 10b in CoDs and it's whomever gets that 10b in first wins? Because I see this - 12-Month CoD (3.0%): Unlimited This is the same as the 3-month term-limit CoD except it has a 12-month term-limit and pays more interest. And think people would simple invest in the 12-month CoD to fill up the Bank's level and prevent the bank from actually being able to be used for anything else?. Or am I reading this wrong? I assume you're starting small as the Savings account is 1B limit, I assume you're gambling on the fact people will choose 12month Bond for 3% and not worry about anything else. Edit:- Spelling error, could have been confusing. Bank Level Deposit Cap This is our way of controling how much intrest is paying out. Currently the Cap is set at 500b isk. It is an internal control to prevent us from having more intrest bearing isk than we have income to cover it. We have weekly reviews planned for our cap and it should never be bit where it would hinder a users ability to get money into a intrest bearing account of there choice.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.04 11:49:00 - [33] Promising. I'm a fan of being agile about things. So pushing out this many services all at once is, to me, worrying. It's nice to see Grendell onboard. I think with him being very visible in the general community through his give-aways and the like is very nice. I wish you good luck.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.08.04 12:49:00 - [34] Edited by: Selene D''Celeste on 04/08/2009 12:50:07 Originally by: LaVista Vista Promising. I'm a fan of being agile about things. So pushing out this many services all at once is, to me, worrying. It's nice to see Grendell onboard. I think with him being very visible in the general community through his give-aways and the like is very nice. I wish you good luck. Thanks LVV. And yeah I had a nice post in reply and then EVE-O ate it, and now I have to go. Later I guess =(
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Thanks LVV. And yeah I had a nice post in reply and then EVE-O ate it, and now I have to go. Later I guess =( Hurray for the iPhone. Even it has copy and paste for when EVE-O om nom's your posts
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:09:00 - [36] Edited by: Lecherito on 04/08/2009 17:13:27 Am I the only one who thinks that 1.5% is more than quite a bit low for a new bank, especially considering the incredibly low amount allowed in the savings account? -L Just read the bottom of page 1, apparently I'm not the only one
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Lecherito Edited by: Lecherito on 04/08/2009 17:13:27 Am I the only one who thinks that 1.5% is more than quite a bit low for a new bank, especially considering the incredibly low amount allowed in the savings account? -L Just read the bottom of page 1, apparently I'm not the only one I disagree. Did you read the about page? This is clearly not a commercial bank in the same sense that ebank is(e ven if I think it's more the same than they make it out to be, just with more different services) And let's face it. There is plenty of room for competition in the bank market atm. Even at low rates due to dbank and ebanks recent drama. Also the fact that it's fairly trustworthy and wellknown people who's running if justifies if even better
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:31:00 - [38] Originally by: eVaLF Per the first part :) EBANK has had those plans for how long now and we have yet to see them, over a year now, maybe even going on 2 years. Can't blame another bank for doing it before you. I wasn't saying it's a bad thing, just a carbon copy. Actually if Mr.H ever actually completed his side it would have been done a long time ago. Apart from a few bugs here and there, if I was in charge I would have released the Exchange a LONG time ago, like over 12 months ago. It has seen zero development since until recently. None the less, there is nothing wrong with a second bank offering up the same services as the first. Like I have wished in the past for Banks, welcome to the party, please stay awhile :) ECT - Good to see you're starting so small. So the 500B is a bank level cap, I assume this includes all saves, CoDs etc. Is there a 12month Bond cap as well? Because as Selene can tell you, 500b at 3% is a big nut to swallow. Assuming it's non-compounding that's almost 500mil a day every day. I'm more concerned about running yourself into the ground bigger is not really better. I'm a strong believer in More Banks. So please don't consider this a troll in any way. Amarr for Life
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:58:00 - [39] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: eVaLF Per the first part :) EBANK has had those plans for how long now and we have yet to see them, over a year now, maybe even going on 2 years. Can't blame another bank for doing it before you. I wasn't saying it's a bad thing, just a carbon copy. Actually if Mr.H ever actually completed his side it would have been done a long time ago. Apart from a few bugs here and there, if I was in charge I would have released the Exchange a LONG time ago, like over 12 months ago. It has seen zero development since until recently. None the less, there is nothing wrong with a second bank offering up the same services as the first. Like I have wished in the past for Banks, welcome to the party, please stay awhile :) ECT - Good to see you're starting so small. So the 500B is a bank level cap, I assume this includes all saves, CoDs etc. Is there a 12month Bond cap as well? Because as Selene can tell you, 500b at 3% is a big nut to swallow. Assuming it's non-compounding that's almost 500mil a day every day. I'm more concerned about running yourself into the ground bigger is not really better. I'm a strong believer in More Banks. So please don't consider this a troll in any way. I dont count you as a troll, We welcome all the feed back from everyone. The 12 month bond is truly cap free with regards to the end user. But it still must fall under the bank cap . Any account that is paid intrest will stay under the cap as a sum of all ammounts in all the accounts. . Is it meor does the stupid text box when full allways flip around while your typing... Stupid forums
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:59:00 - [40] Originally by: ECR Tomw Originally by: Ambo Looks nice. Unfortunatley, the returns are just way too low to justify the risk imo. 3% for the 'about-as-safe-as-you-can-get' ebank is the lowest I really consider worthwhile. With this, I can only get 3% if I leave isk there for 12 months and that won't even be compounded. Otherwise, it's just 1.5%. So if I put 10 billion at risk for a month then I'll earn around 150 mil. Not even enough to cover GTC. The fact that I can only put 1 billion in makes it even more pointless. I'm sure you'll find many who will be happy to throw their isk at you though. Good luck with it. I am not sure where your getting your information but our basic savings account is the excat same intrest rate as EBANK's Checking account 1.5%. We then go on to offer even higher if your willing to leave the isk with us for longer periods of time up to 3.0%. You have no option of that with ebank. If your one of the lucky ones with a 3% savings account with the 3b cap thats good for you as not many people have them out 3% Account has no cap but does have a withdrawl limitation. But since all your intrest is paid directly into your sweep account you have instant access to your profits. So if you really compare us for the general population we do pay higher intrest rates on our accounts. I am indeed one of those with access to a 3% savings account. If it helps, I have exactly the same opinion of ebank's 1.5% account. It's simply not worth it. Even 3% is pushing it in my eyes. I'm not really interested in you being better or worse than anything else out there. Simply stating that for me, I can't see enough return to entrust you guys with my isk. As I say though, I'm sure you'll find plenty who are willing to do so. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:00:00 - [41] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Lecherito Edited by: Lecherito on 04/08/2009 17:13:27 Am I the only one who thinks that 1.5% is more than quite a bit low for a new bank, especially considering the incredibly low amount allowed in the savings account? -L Just read the bottom of page 1, apparently I'm not the only one I disagree. Did you read the about page? This is clearly not a commercial bank in the same sense that ebank is(e ven if I think it's more the same than they make it out to be, just with more different services) And let's face it. There is plenty of room for competition in the bank market atm. Even at low rates due to dbank and ebanks recent drama. Also the fact that it's fairly trustworthy and wellknown people who's running if justifies if even better Your right in that sense we are very much a bank at heart, With just alot of things that banks dont currently offer and a allot of new funcaility coming soon that no other banks are offering.
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:05:00 - [42] To : Ambo Well it comes down to income vr's outlay. While still in the young building phase conservation is key. While we are ready and finacily able to take on large sum's of isk we wanted to ensure our stability and continued Growth. With that said thought we do offer the 12 month cd with unlimited deposit ability. While this is about 1-2% less then a MD forum Bond now days it seems its a secure investment with no risk to your isk. (Well Almost). We Felt having the CD's Pay high intrest would help to ensure allways being solvent and preventing huge spikes and drops in cash flow while at the same time paying customer what there isk is worth. If you feel the rates are 2 low what would you say they should be at?
Carrie Mehome Misfitz Brigade	Posted - 2009.08.04 19:02:00 - [43] A couple of questions about this. 1. Are you still a member of the Eve Bank's board? 2. How many of these ideas where or still are on Eve Bank's drawing bored? 3. Did you originally think of these ideas or did you appropriate these from Eve Bank? 4. If you did appropriate these ideas, did you do it with Eve Bank's consent? 5. Will you still run you Casino after the bank is open?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.04 19:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Carrie Mehome A couple of questions about this. 1. Are you still a member of the Eve Bank's board? 2. How many of these ideas where or still are on Eve Bank's drawing bored? 3. Did you originally think of these ideas or did you appropriate these from Eve Bank? 4. If you did appropriate these ideas, did you do it with Eve Bank's consent? I think that your questions are irrelevant. No, Selene left EBANK months ago. However, while most of the things that ECR is going to do was either done by EBANK, or under progress, it doesn't matter. What EBANK has done isn't rocket science, and most services have been seen in other shapes and forms. Selene doesn't need consent to do something that wasn't exactly invented by EBANK. And Selene left of good terms with EBANK. So he's a good friend of EBANK, as far as I'm aware. I'd be happy to share my advice with Selene at very least.
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 19:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Carrie Mehome A couple of questions about this. 1. Are you still a member of the Eve Bank's board? 2. How many of these ideas where or still are on Eve Bank's drawing bored? 3. Did you originally think of these ideas or did you appropriate these from Eve Bank? 4. If you did appropriate these ideas, did you do it with Eve Bank's consent? 5. Will you still run you Casino after the bank is open? 1. No Selene Left a while ago on good terms 2. At least half that i know off. But i know some of the things on our list to do are not. 3. Alot of our Ideas came form what we think a bank should have. So while not directly appropriated i am sure a few of them came from his knowldge of ebank. 4. Ideas are just that ide's and its a free market... 5. Oh yes EOH Poker is very much alive and well and is not going anywhere.
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 19:25:00 - [46] Comment Correction. Our Launch Cap will be 200b not 500b. Our current Cap for beta is 20b. Just wanted to ensure everyone knows the real numbers. Thanks...
Daeva Vios New Eden Credit Bureau	Posted - 2009.08.04 19:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Carrie Mehome A couple of questions about this. 1. Are you still a member of the Eve Bank's board? 2. How many of these ideas where or still are on Eve Bank's drawing bored? 3. Did you originally think of these ideas or did you appropriate these from Eve Bank? 4. If you did appropriate these ideas, did you do it with Eve Bank's consent? 5. Will you still run you Casino after the bank is open? I don't think EVE has anything resembling a binding Non-Competition clause. ------------------------------------- NECB
Carrie Mehome Misfitz Brigade	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Daeva Vios Originally by: Carrie Mehome A couple of questions about this. 1. Are you still a member of the Eve Bank's board? 2. How many of these ideas where or still are on Eve Bank's drawing bored? 3. Did you originally think of these ideas or did you appropriate these from Eve Bank? 4. If you did appropriate these ideas, did you do it with Eve Bank's consent? 5. Will you still run you Casino after the bank is open? I don't think EVE has anything resembling a binding Non-Competition clause. True enough, However. Morals, ethics?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Carrie Mehome True enough, However. Morals, ethics? In the interest of growth, this would be one of those things that really doesn't matter. It would akin to Rome complaining to Constantinople that they too built roads with bricks.
Daeva Vios New Eden Credit Bureau	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Carrie Mehome True enough, However. Morals, ethics? In the interest of growth, this would be one of those things that really doesn't matter. It would akin to Rome complaining to Constantinople that they too built roads with bricks. This. When the field is this open, these two banks can exist together without any harm coming to either. They can take lessons from each other and advance together. Even if EVE had too many banks, however, the 'morals' and 'ethics' that would come into play would be which bank is better suited to survive amid the competition? Generally this works in favor of the consumer and is in no way a bad thing, except for those who found that they could not compete. ------------------------------------- NECB
Carrie Mehome Misfitz Brigade	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:51:00 - [51] This is probably why I will never get far ahead in eve lol. To me, I look at it as "stealing" an idea. You where trusted, you where apart of something. I have no idea why he left EBANK, nor does it matter I guess. But, he took the ideas others offered but where not acted upon and he is acting upon them. So, maybe not such a bad thing after all. Good luck, Im sure you will be seeing some of my isk :)
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.08.04 23:13:00 - [52] Looks like some good discussion and thanks for the positive feedback and useful critiques. Get ready for a very long post of replies, but luckily, Tom answered a bunch today. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Basically a corporate prospectus and strategy beyond the welcome message. Tom answered a bunch but let me expand on that. POS setups are yet to be determined, partially based on expected need, as well as the needs of directors moving their operations to the ECR corporation in order to have BoD BPO lockdown. Remember, this is being designed with security in mind and (trying) to take as little as possible for granted. Further ideas on increasing security without completely nerfing money-making ability are always great to hear. The %s on accounts and CDs are probably going to stay, the caps are likely to come up for discussion in the near future. One concern brought up since yesterday is that without a per-account cap, a small group could fill up the reserve to its current limits, not letting anyone else in. So that can be discussed. Overall though, the design of long-term ISK lockdown with a bank-level cap on all basic interest-bearing vehicles (savings, CDs) means that a minimal amount of ISK is needed in reserve to keep liquidity. Additionally, this means the bank should never have much more ISK that it is paying interest on than it has out in loans, thus preventing a situation where the bank is barely breaking even or losing money. Uncontrolled growth is not a good thing. By "Institution facilities" I am not sure what you mean, so a clarification would be useful. There is a good chance that loan rates will have to be tweaked. However, less than 110% collateral on a loan is foolish for several reasons when the goal is actual security and not hoped-for security. By not taking into account fame and reliability of those we lend to, the system is designed to provide modest loan rates for maximum security. Obviously this rate has to stay above the highest offered to customers, and customers need an inventive above the "baseline" of 1.5% in order to keep their ISK locked down. So it is a fine line to walk in order to be profitable. Obviously this loan setup isn't for everyone, and is probably only for a smaller subset of players. In the end though, we think there will be plenty of business, and future opportunities to make different vehicles or services that deal with less secure loans. Also Tom, your spelling is as terrible as always =P Originally by: LaVista Vista pushing out this many services all at once is, to me, worrying. Honestly, there's not a lot being pushed out at once. At launch there will be basic bank functions: accounts, CDs, loans, and we'll make sure they all function as intended. The stock market won't be good to go with all the bells and whistles for a few more weeks afterwards most likely, since we'll want all bits thoroughly tested. If you think this is a lot then looking at the future to-do list would probably make you pass out. Originally by: LaVista Vista It's nice to see Grendell onboard. I think with him being very visible in the general community through his give-aways and the like is very nice. It's good that at least two of the five are known forum *****s, but the focus here is on the implementation and the utility, not the personalities. While both Grendell and I profit in other businesses that are partly or heavily used purely due to reputation, ECR isn't meant to be such a beast. We have had plenty of businesses and banks run on reputation, and fail due to disappearances and other issues. We want this business to stand on its own merit, and have failsafes at every level. No, it can't be perfect, but god damnit we're going to try. Basically, if I or anyone else can't be replaced by a new face without crippling the reserve in one or more aspects, then we're doing it wrong.
ECR Tomw	Posted - 2009.08.04 23:24:00 - [53] Also Tom, your spelling is as terrible as always =P Best way to tell its me every other word is spelled wrong..
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.08.04 23:39:00 - [54] Originally by: Ambo Unfortunatley, the returns are just way too low to justify the risk imo. 3% for the 'about-as-safe-as-you-can-get' ebank is the lowest I really consider worthwhile. There are a few bits here I will contest. First, we all know the limitations on the 3% EBANK accounts. EBANK also isn't as safe as you can get. No really, it's not. That's not an insult to EBANK, and I think even most of the current BoD there would admit that. Even without the suggested improvements we're already getting via user feedback, the security design for ECR is beyond what most any other EVE business here has had. I'm not saying this to brag, it's simply part of the design philosophy. And if we're not being as safe as possible in some aspect, then we want to be told, and then try to plug it if it's within our means. That's a huge goal behind ECR. Every business makes assumptions based on reputation and the cleverness of those who run it to make ISK, and that's part of the sell to customers, but ECR wants to minimize that effect in exchange for actual security and transparency. The goal is to have no single point of failure, redundant eyes at every level, and group-secured assets at every level to prevent any possible issue of disappearance, loss of interest, or rogue activity -- all three of which burn MD investors on regular basis. A recent complaint lately by newcomers has been that the established players don't play by the rules they want everyone else to play by. If nothing else, this is an experiment as to the result when that complaint is addressed in earnest. ECR's design isn't to solve everyone's woes, it's designed to do a specific job, and to do it right. And that job is to provide an ultra-secure banking and service institution. I certainly don't begrudge you not wanting to invest for that level of interest, but we both know that EBANK reached a good 2 Trillion or so in 1.5% accounts for the reason that not everyone has that same concern. =D Originally by: Carrie Mehome Questions! A bunch of people, including Tom, already addressed your questions but I can add a little more at least: I'll tackle EOH first. EVE Online Hold'Em is not affected by this business venture, and will continue to run as it has for the last 1.5+ years. Part of moving to this project was that EOH is pretty stable and while there is more to do, some variety is needed to keep things fresh. I don't always want to be "that poker guy" and Tom doesn't want to be stuck developing new EOH admin reports for me forever =P I left EBANK shortly before the Ricdic scandal, and was pretty much inactive for a while before that. As I've told some members of EBANK in private, since several of us still talk, my regrets from that time period were letting apathy get to me in the Ricdic years (I gave up after X number of arguments) and then moreso, coming back earlier this year when I really shouldn't have. I was already disenchanted, and wasn't motivated to do anything on those terms. When I finally quit, I decided it was time to just go back to poker .... but that wasn't to be. I grumbled one day to Tom about how we should find people to start a bank, and later found out that Niraia (who has worked with both myself and Grendell) had been talking to Grendell and Roric about just such a thing. Shortly after the Ricidc incident, our group chatted and hashed out fundamentals to see if this was a viable venture. And things went from there. Now we're here. Obviously a lot of ideas in the initial launch were mentioned at EBANK. And on the MD forums, and in real life, and by the many people we talk about market stuff with. Lots of ideas came from every board member. This initial launch and expansion (banking + exchange) obviously overlaps heavily used ideas a lot because they are fundamental. But, I promise you, a lot of the services we have in the works, are going to be brand new or have a unique twist (I hate emoticons but that one was perfect.)
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.08.05 01:51:00 - [55] On a small note.. Selene.. You and your info on the website need to use headers, for the (tl;dr) crowd.. I like reading forums, but even I sometimes get shocked at your post length. I am looking forward to this novel project. Might want to push a bit in communicating the investment banking aspect more.. ? Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo...
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.08.05 03:15:00 - [56] All in good time. There is a lot to do, so can't do it all at once. But yes, making everything more accessible and user-friendly information-wise is high on the list. Considering how fluid design is now since it's been .... a day since people started playing and giving feedback .... waiting a little bit is probably a good idea!
Ulecese Ihatalo Research and Development Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.05 04:20:00 - [57] I'm one of the closed beta-testers and I must say I have been impressed with this sofar. Uber transparency and accounting is a step in the right direction for the market. Looking forward to Integrating IHAFS. p.s. EOH, mail me ------------------------------------ CEO, Ihatalo Research and Development Ihatalo Cartel Banking and 3rd Party Transaction Service : http://ihafs-eve.co.uk/
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.08.05 04:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Ulecese I'm one of the closed beta-testers and I must say I have been impressed with this sofar. Uber transparency and accounting is a step in the right direction for the market. Looking forward to Integrating IHAFS. p.s. EOH, mail me Uh Oh.. I sense the coming together of the great bankers... On that note is Bohemian Grove meeting still the same location? Seriously. More transparency and cooperation between the financial groups is really a huge benefit.. Now the natural next step is "delegating" and helping each business to stand out with the product line they are servicing.. As I see it Ebank is the old institution, with all the known features and functions.. Ithalo is the novel transactions and payments wiz? EVECR will be a universal bank with a high degree of shared information and obviously much transparency. The days of new stuff in EVE surely isnt over yet... Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo...
Mynxee Minmatar Hellcats The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.08.05 05:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Mynxee on 05/08/2009 05:18:58 As one of the more recent senior bankers at EOH and now a closed beta tester for EVECR, gotta say I'm very impressed with the vision, organization, management, responsiveness, and customer focus that I've observed on the part of everyone involved in both projects. I'm proud to be associated with them and glad I'm able to contribute in however small a way to the success of both EOH and EVECR. All good wishes for success in this venture, guys. Based on what I've seen so far, I think it's going to be pretty special. Bump It! \| My Blog: Life in Low Sec
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2009.08.05 13:41:00 - [60] Here confirming my involvment as a director, sorry for the late post, I am away for work in japan and have been for the last 2 weeks. Incase anyone is interested Japan is a beautiful country!

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