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McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2009.08.04 13:50:00 - [1] isn't really going down, is it? I thought the devs adjusted drop rates of needed materials quite a while ago. How comes theyre still so insanely expensive? Is it the stupidity of ppl to buy them at that price or the common agreement that theyre worth it and ppl are willing to pay that price? I'd like to buy a loki for some plexing and the comfort to have a scanning and combat ship all in one but no way in hell i'm gonna buy it at current prices.... are there any tendences or chances that the price might drop in he near future?
Drakan290	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:19:00 - [2] lol, funny T3 ships used to be 1.5-2 billion isk to fit out properly, and it can now be done around 900m with proper faction reps/boosters.
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:26:00 - [3] I dont know dude...current price in Rens for example is around 500 million for the hull alone. Add the subsystems and proper fitting and you are well over 1 billion still. Even if its not 2 billion any more, still way over the top.
hobo deluxe	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:39:00 - [4] Try and find a nice manufacturer , i can order any susbsystem for the price of 100m and a hull for 300m . But you will have to be patient for them to be made =)
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:39:00 - [5] Edited by: Durzel on 04/08/2009 14:40:04 People are still paying the hull + subsystem prices as they are right now. While that continues to be the case the prices will stay broadly the same, but eventually it should correct itself. No offence intended but this seems about as valid as complaining about "overpriced" PLEX prices. If people are prepared to pay the amount then that's what the market is willing to bear. People aren't suddenly going to sell it to you under market value unless you're a good friend of theirs or you chance upon someone looking to raise ISK fast by liquidising their T3 assets.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.08.04 14:47:00 - [6] Originally by: McRoll Rens Jita EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2009.08.04 15:08:00 - [7] Edited by: McRoll on 04/08/2009 15:10:34 Yeah if people are ready to accept the current prices theres nothing to do but to accept it...i wonder why though. Is t3 really THAT good to justify the prices? Sure you can build an uber tank on them but with those officer modules needed you can do the same on other ships. Then there is bubble invulnerability and covert ops cloak...well if you use this for scouting, why not just take a covops? You can take this ship behind enemy lines and maybe rat in it without the fear of getting blown up in a gatecamp, but thats about it. What do you use your t3 for?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.08.04 15:51:00 - [8] Originally by: McRoll Is t3 really THAT good to justify the prices? With very few exceptions, NO, they're not worth the pricetags. The exceptions are: * people with low skills - it takes less training to fly a strategic cruiser than it takes to fly a HAC, but they can match the effectivenes of command ships in some configurations * people with too much ISK - they simply don't care how much they cost, they fly them for the novelty value alone * covert ops cloak + immunity to bubbles = uber-blockade-runner * solo plexing (and solo wormholes) - not many other ships can match the effectiveness of strategic cruisers there EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.04 15:57:00 - [9] Quite a lot of the current buyers are still the people that buy just to have one. That will not pvp on it. Therefore will not loose them. This makes sure that this buyers will likely not be available in near future. When these are out of the price game, then you will see another adjustment trend based on how much the RECURRENT buyers accept to pay. Also t3 supplies from wrom space not goign to go down, only up from more players. Could easily see complete ships on the 500M range next year.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 16:57:00 - [10] I love my loki and it was worth the price I paid for it (About 1.3 billion isk and I bought it pretty early into the T3 game, you just have to shop around, TALK with the people producing the parts) because I have had a lot of fun flying it solo and with my friends. My word of advice though, don't just fit for Cloak/probe/interdiction because that's the most boring fit there is and also the most used, what's the point of a ship so versatile when everyone uses the same fit? A setup I've been using recently: [Loki, ROaTF] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Salvager II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Now it's certainly not going to be one of the popular loki setups you see around and it makes use of some of the less popular subsystems but god-damn does it feel good to swat a frigate at 20km with autocannons. 750m/s (1000+ overloaded) 500dps tank (~600dps overloaded) 1.54 RoF 25km web (32.5km overloaded) and great overheating bonuses all go together to make this one of my favoured loki fits. Admittedly the dps is perhaps a little poor in some people's opinion at only around 300dps (~400 if you overload and I DO love to overload ) but there's space for a bunch of light or medium drones too. Definitely a FUN ship to fly. All in all, this setup plus the many many more that I have saved make the Loki very fun and worthwhile, in my opinion, totally worth the cost. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Nikolay Tesla Minmatar Nomadic Angels	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Benco97 I love my loki and it was worth the price I paid for it (About 1.3 billion isk and I bought it pretty early into the T3 game, you just have to shop around, TALK with the people producing the parts) because I have had a lot of fun flying it solo and with my friends. My word of advice though, don't just fit for Cloak/probe/interdiction because that's the most boring fit there is and also the most used, what's the point of a ship so versatile when everyone uses the same fit? A setup I've been using recently: [Loki, ROaTF] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Salvager II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Now it's certainly not going to be one of the popular loki setups you see around and it makes use of some of the less popular subsystems but god-damn does it feel good to swat a frigate at 20km with autocannons. 750m/s (1000+ overloaded) 500dps tank (~600dps overloaded) 1.54 RoF 25km web (32.5km overloaded) and great overheating bonuses all go together to make this one of my favoured loki fits. Admittedly the dps is perhaps a little poor in some people's opinion at only around 300dps (~400 if you overload and I DO love to overload ) but there's space for a bunch of light or medium drones too. Definitely a FUN ship to fly. All in all, this setup plus the many many more that I have saved make the Loki very fun and worthwhile, in my opinion, totally worth the cost. Sooo, you need to use over billion of isk just to kill frigate... Wich you even can't do since you do not have a point...
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.04 17:29:00 - [12] The devs said that they should be around the price of t2 cruisers (alltogether, not just hull..), and from the single wormhole anomaly I've done, the rewards seem fairly low. Sounds like doubling the drops didn't do all that much, because ATM wormholes don't seem too "worth it" and prices are still right under a bil.
Capt Oconell	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:00:00 - [13] I think part of the reason why they are becoming so cheap is the fact that they are next to useless in the open field, their ship bonuses are surely not worth billions while the mods have a tendency of getting quickly destroyed when a random pirate gang decides to drop in uninvited. Dont foget, just cause you are flying t3 doesnt mean that you can kill a hac, cause 75% of the time you cant. There are some exceptions however, such as the 30% additional web range mod for the rapier, everyone can surely find a place for one of those.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Nikolay Tesla Sooo, you need to use over billion of isk just to kill frigate... Wich you even can't do since you do not have a point... No, you don't need over a billion isk to kill a frigate (Despite the fact that this ship is perfectly good at killing cruisers, BC's and BS's too, not sure why you focused on frigs) and that wasn't my point in the slightest also I don't believe I said that setup was for PVP so unless you are so scary you make rats warp off I don't think there is much of a need for a point. I certainly didn't buy my loki to be a solopwnmobile and I wasn't expecting T3 to be as such, infact T3 is currently more powerful than I was expecting it to be. It seems to me that you just want it to be mathematically better than anything cheaper? Of course there are cookie-cutter builds out there with no character but I think you missed the point of T3. But please, continue to misunderstand what I said with all your heart, I'm sure it makes you happy. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Merbusent	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:06:00 - [15] Originally by: AstroPhobic The devs said that they should be around the price of t2 cruisers (alltogether, not just hull..), and from the single wormhole anomaly I've done, the rewards seem fairly low. Sounds like doubling the drops didn't do all that much, because ATM wormholes don't seem too "worth it" and prices are still right under a bil. So there kinda like the fun option to production by industrialists rather than an ultimate elite weapon of choice by an pvp'r i cant wait till those industiralists get bored and there priced good
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.04 18:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Seishi Maru Quite a lot of the current buyers are still the people that buy just to have one. That will not pvp on it. Therefore will not loose them.on the 500M range next year. They may not have any choice in it really. I know of a corp who has killed 5 T3 ships in the past couple of weeks, and I doubt they're the only ones. T3 ships fighting in wormholes are still worthy of people dropping what they're doing to get in on the killmail, even at the current (lower) prices.
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:11:00 - [17] Edited by: McRoll on 04/08/2009 20:15:42 Definitely gonna buy one of those in the future.... only thing i hate is the fact that the covert module doesnt provide a dronebay. I might find myself in a situation where i am webbed and scrambled and cant hit the darn frigate. And i want to use the covert module because im gonna scan for plexes in lowsec. Thats a problem where i didnt find a solution... does anybody know a good fit for a plexing loki? should include covert reconfiguration subsystem and a probe launcher slot. I did come up with something in EFT but im not happy at all with the DPS :( Seems that you cant really fit that ship for exploration if you want the cloak..without i am pretty much restricted to highsec then, too risky to visit lowsec in it
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Benco97 I love my loki and it was worth the price I paid for it (About 1.3 billion isk and I bought it pretty early into the T3 game, you just have to shop around, TALK with the people producing the parts) because I have had a lot of fun flying it solo and with my friends. My word of advice though, don't just fit for Cloak/probe/interdiction because that's the most boring fit there is and also the most used, what's the point of a ship so versatile when everyone uses the same fit? A setup I've been using recently: [Loki, ROaTF] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Salvager II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Now it's certainly not going to be one of the popular loki setups you see around and it makes use of some of the less popular subsystems but god-damn does it feel good to swat a frigate at 20km with autocannons. 750m/s (1000+ overloaded) 500dps tank (~600dps overloaded) 1.54 RoF 25km web (32.5km overloaded) and great overheating bonuses all go together to make this one of my favoured loki fits. Admittedly the dps is perhaps a little poor in some people's opinion at only around 300dps (~400 if you overload and I DO love to overload ) but there's space for a bunch of light or medium drones too. Definitely a FUN ship to fly. All in all, this setup plus the many many more that I have saved make the Loki very fun and worthwhile, in my opinion, totally worth the cost. That is a pve fit right? Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 20:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega That is a pve fit right? Of course, Silly Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.04 22:54:00 - [20] (sorry for bad format) Just for excample: Legion Defensive - Warefare Processor Fullerene Intercalated Sheets113.447.500,00 Metallofullerene Plating1300.750,00 Nanowire Composites1196.900,00 Neurovisual Output Analyzer1196.900,00 Reinforced Metallofullerene Alloys12.081.000,00 BPC1670000 16.893.050,00 ISK That's the price if you buy all needed stuff via contracts or direct-buy in Amarr. So no WH-trip needed, no invention needed, absolut no risk! If you use buy-orders out of Amarr/Jita you might get the components far cheeper. So a production price around 12 to 13 mil might be posible. Now go and compare this ~17 mISK with the actual price in Jita/Amarr/elsewhere. If you are very lucky, you might get it for maybe 60 mISK. I did the calc for several moduls. The warefare is one of the cheeper, the expensive one are about 45 to 50 mISK (and are set to 150++ mISK sell on the market) if you buy the rdy BPC over contracts and all components peer direct buy. I did not calculated the hull-price, but it likely they have the same price difference between REAL build- and INGAME sell-price. Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
Psade	Posted - 2009.08.05 00:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/08/2009 22:58:56 (sorry for bad format) Just for excample: Legion Defensive - Warefare Processor Fullerene Intercalated Sheets113.447.500,00 Metallofullerene Plating1300.750,00 Nanowire Composites1196.900,00 Neurovisual Output Analyzer1196.900,00 Reinforced Metallofullerene Alloys12.081.000,00 BPC1670000 16.893.050,00 ISK Uh, Bzzt. Neurovisual Output Analyzers require 4 Melted nanoribbons (12 mil) and 10 Carbon-86 Epoxy Resin, (16.5 mil) putting the cost of defensive subsystem materials around 50 mil. Put more time into the math, less into the complaints.
Letifer Deus Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.08.05 02:39:00 - [22] Originally by: AstroPhobic The devs said that they should be around the price of t2 cruisers MM, no. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.05 02:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: AstroPhobic The devs said that they should be around the price of t2 cruisers MM, no. Meh… 300mil, so more like T2 BCs + premium. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.05 03:17:00 - [24] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 05/08/2009 03:21:59 Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: AstroPhobic The devs said that they should be around the price of t2 cruisers MM, no. You sound like you know what you're talking about. And I quote Originally by: CCP Nozh While IÆm at it I might add something about the prices of Strategic Cruisers. The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers. The subsystem cost will be about 1/8th of the hull itself, we want people to own multiple subsystems to mix and match as they see fit. If the price gets out of hand (we canÆt even predict it accurately ourselves) weÆll do something about it. and I link http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1008374&page=5#150
Solid Prefekt Haven Front	Posted - 2009.08.05 04:40:00 - [25] The price of a T3 is whatever CCP wants it to be. They proved this beyond a doubt when they tinkered with the build requirements and drop rates. Do not kid yourself that this is purely supply and demand. Early on, CCP said they wanted it to cost around the price of a T2 cruiser. It looks like they have reversed this position. It happens. Deal with it.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.05 06:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Jack Jombardo For me 300 to 450 is a FAIR price. Anythink above is scam! Whilst your math is probably sound it's kinda academic. In the real World thing seldom sell for only slightly more than the cost of their constituent parts + "a small profit". Look at the iPhone, do you think it costs Apple anything like what they sell it for to make? Of course not. I'd be surprised if it costs them more than $100 per unit. Market forces dictate prices. If people weren't prepared to pay the current T3 prices, or PLEX prices, or whatever then the prices would creep downwards towards the "mineral value + small profit" margin. Until that happens, or there's significantly more competition, that's not going to happen overnight.
khazak mokl	Posted - 2009.08.05 06:40:00 - [27] Hi I found the easyist way to get into a T3 is to join a WH corp that manufacture them. I have 2 atm with loads of spare subs for each and they only cost me around 525-575Mil each. Whats more you might actually find you like the corp and stay about coz there a good bunch of people and have some fun. Of course the optional faction fits are gonna cost the big money but there not nessasary depending on the ships role. My first T3 was a legion with a T2 fit using covert sub so it had low dps but it still managed to fit a cloak,probe launcher,tractor beam and salvager and also had a code breaker/analyzer in the mids. Even with this gimped fit it could still solo c1 and c2 and salvage the wrecks as I pew pew. It doesnt need to be an uber fit dps/tanking machine just good enough to do its intended job which were soloing c1 & c2 and not keepe switching ships between scanning/dps and salaving. It could also easily complete all the sites it found in highsec/lowsec with ease. took me less than 5 mins to do a DED 4/10 and get the A-type loot. Even the t2 fitted tank never went below 90%. It makes about 80-100 mil an hour doing low lvl annoms so i can buy a new one every week or so including faction fits. I may even use 1 for pvp soon as alot of our corp do already. To me its not about the isk cost of a ship its about having fun as Eve is a game and sometimes I think that people forget this. Back to the topic I dont know if the price will drop much on the open market as something is worth what other people are willing to pay for it and there are lots of people willing to pay the going rate.
Letifer Deus Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.08.06 01:09:00 - [28] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/08/2009 01:13:50 Originally by: AstroPhobic You sound like you know what you're talking about. And I quote That is a post from February. Their desired price point is more around 300 mil. I am way too lazy/don't care enough to dig up that (more recent) post. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.06 04:32:00 - [29] Even if I forgot (some very expensive) parts, the build-price is still about 1/2 to 1/3 of the actual sell-price if you use direct buy and no buy orders. With buy orders (or contacts) Submoduls can be build for about 40 mil while they are sold for around 100 to 150 mil. I do understand, that producer are very happy to have somethink to earn money with (as nearly no T1 or T2 provides any win anymore). But it's not to far from "make some win" to "scam people". And it is very short vision if you try to keep the price like it is now. The higher the win, the more people train for it. And suddenly there are so many T3 producer, that the price will drob dramaticly until the margin is compareble to T1/T2 (so nearly zerro). On the other hand, if you hold the win moderat, it will not be enough for the "mass" to join the production and you can hold this moderat win for a very loooong time. The good think is, the price is going down pritty fast atm. People catch up with needed producer skills and the monopol of high skill producers vanishs allready :). Plus more and more people learn how much the real production price is (mine was to low but many get T3 for around 500 mils ... and they talk about it). You can't keep this semi-scam secret to long anymore ;). Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
Bonebreaker Monk	Posted - 2009.08.06 04:57:00 - [30] no offense, but i keep reading about "a hull with subsystems and proper (faction) fittings will end up to..." and would like to remind those who add all the pricetags together, that absolutely no fitting-stuff is associated with t3 in itself, as a wh does not drop mods. as a sidenote i'd like to add, everything that's better will cost more, hence t3 will allways be more expensive or if it drops to t2 prices should be considered redundant modding t2 with an unneccessarily complicated production-chain.

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