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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Avalon Champion The Order of Odin	Posted - 2009.08.06 12:28:00 - [31] Not to mention, Expanders and rigs wont effect the balance. Imagine a base cargo bay of 80K which with skills, expanders and rigs would give you somewhere between 200 and 250K of cargo space. Plus the 40K from the corp hanger. I like the sound of the change, keeps it nicely balanced and doesnt impact on the roles of freighters of both kinds.
Iece Quaan Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.08.06 13:34:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Chronotis The Rorqual and Orca will receive ore holds initially. The ore hold accepts any type of ore, compressed or not which includes ice as this is a type of asteroid. Core functionality is available which allows us to add new specialised bays where we want to with whatever cargo restrictions we want (we have many available to use already) and what we are doing currently is mainly deploying fuel bays onto a few ship classes and the ore holds here for now and then in the future as we get chance to review each ship group combined with some eventual additional usability improvements with accessing the containers in a ship. Make the ore bay accessible by gangmates, like the ship bay and corporate hangar. Thanks.
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade Matari Visionary Coalition	Posted - 2009.08.06 14:59:00 - [33] I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here?
Unity Love Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.06 17:37:00 - [34] Edited by: Unity Love on 06/08/2009 17:38:57 Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here? Doesn't make JF more valuable but doesn't decrease their worth either is what I think people are saying. Also shouldn't have to be accessable by fleet members. Easy enough to put in corp hangars than the pilot to drag to wherever.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.06 19:16:00 - [35] Bascialy the idea was to get away from "Cargo warships" while allowing them to introduce specialised ship subtypes(sutch as ship transporters) or to go back and allow existing ships to have "ammo bays/magazines" that dont take up cargo space so they can go back and make ammo sizes be a bit more realistic for example. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2009.08.06 20:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here? Here's the logic: Because of the volume per unit of ore and the massive quantities mining ops get, it would be useful if both the Rorqual and the Orca had bigger holds to handle the ore from these ops since they are mining op command ships at their core. BUT increasing the standard cargo hold would turn them into better freighters than freighters (orca because it's faster, rorqual because it would become effectively a T1 jump freighter and what would be the purpose of the jump freighter then???). So by adding specialized bays, this increases the amount of ore these ships can handle (and they are supposed to be mining support ships so this make sense) without impacting their current "general cargo" capacity (and making them better than the current freighter and jump freighter).
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience New Eden Hardware Emporium	Posted - 2009.08.06 23:20:00 - [37] would really love to try out the sisi changes, it sounds like a great addition to the orca role and as mentioned above increase cargo space without making it a generalised freighter won't unbalance things at all. Perhaps the next step is to give Amarr and cap dependant ships, a cap battery bay as well? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061197&page=1 is the EXP-L Eve Industrial Organiser thread. Thank you support full text forum today.
Xessej	Posted - 2009.08.07 04:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Sidrat Flush Perhaps the next step is to give Amarr and cap dependant ships, a cap battery bay as well? Cap booster charges fit in the ammo bays the dreads are getting. If BS and smaller get ammo bays I assume the same would apply.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.08.07 06:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here? It allows CCP to make specialised ships. That's all. The Orca is a mining command ship, it should be able to hold ore for the small mining ops it supports, without turning it into a mini-freighter. Similarly putting a fuel bay into a carrier would allow it to carry plenty of fuel, without turning it into a mini-jump-freighter. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Recruitment Closed until mid-Sept.
Forranz Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.08.07 06:14:00 - [40] I still think they should allow freighters to hold rigged ships.

Jonathan Calvert Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade Matari Visionary Coalition	Posted - 2009.08.07 12:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here? It allows CCP to make specialised ships. That's all. The Orca is a mining command ship, it should be able to hold ore for the small mining ops it supports, without turning it into a mini-freighter. Similarly putting a fuel bay into a carrier would allow it to carry plenty of fuel, without turning it into a mini-jump-freighter. Yeah, I get it now. Seems like they should reduce the cargo hold to near nothing in order to buff the ore bay though. Otherwise, your still going to be putting ore in the cargo bay, the ore bay, and the corp hangar to maximize capacity. Also make it so miner can put ore directly in the ore bay to avoid having to jetcan.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.07 15:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Jonathan Calvert Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Originally by: Jonathan Calvert Yeah, I get it now. Seems like they should reduce the cargo hold to near nothing in order to buff the ore bay though. Otherwise, your still going to be putting ore in the cargo bay, the ore bay, and the corp hangar to maximize capacity. Also make it so miner can put ore directly in the ore bay to avoid having to jetcan. They dont want to ** off the people who are currently fitting and useing them as mobile exploration/Whole bases to hold the probe and combat ships and all the other stuff that people want to lug around with them. . . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience New Eden Hardware Emporium	Posted - 2009.08.07 15:40:00 - [43] Edited by: Sidrat Flush on 07/08/2009 15:40:26 Originally by: Steve Thomas ... (3) Irionicaly makes unrefined ore more valuable on the open market in part due to the added cargo capacity for people who use them as mini freighters ... Actually Ore should only reflect the current mineral prices that can be obtained from them, in most instances a lot less than what could be earnt but then not everyone has the refining skills with the corp standings as well. Still that's opening a can of worms we don't need here. I look forward to the specialised ship roles that they could implement and am glad to hear that cap boosters fit in to the ammo bay of the ships that have it. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061197&page=1 is the EXP-L Eve Industrial Organiser thread. Thank you support full text forum today.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.07 17:44:00 - [44] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 07/08/2009 17:46:17 Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I dont understand the point of the ore bay. More space is always good, but what does it solve or improve that simply increasing the orca cargo space wouldnt? From what I have read, GSCs can't be used anymore. (confirm? or is it just in the ore bay?) In a T1 cargo rigged Orca, one can stuff 25 to 30 GSC (depending on skill), so that is a 22,500 m3 to 27,000 m3 in the cargohold alone. I'm not sure if the corporate hangar is affected (confirm?), and that is another 13 GSC or 11,700 m3. It is a lot more convenient to NOT have to use GSC for ore.
Mr McMoneybags	Posted - 2009.08.07 20:44:00 - [45] The Rorqual will now get 70k m3 for POS fuel/modules?! CCP is nerfing the best logistics platform in the game. There will no longer be a ship that can anchor, stront, fuel, and online a large POS (with mods) in one sitting. Fan-*******-tastic.
Mr McMoneybags	Posted - 2009.08.07 20:47:00 - [46] CCP hates the logistics folks that pay to play this game, amirite?
Egwenne Minmatar Excessive Mining and Production	Posted - 2009.08.07 23:41:00 - [47] The Ore Bay addition is nice, I would love to see an Ammo/Charge bay on the Exhumers, allow it to hold the Mining Crystals so as not to affect the cargo space these things have (tiny holds given the yields you can get) Can't wait to see these go live in any case :-) ------------------------------------------ Excessive Force!! Why use anything less??
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.08 01:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Sidrat Flush Edited by: Sidrat Flush on 07/08/2009 15:40:26 Originally by: Steve Thomas Actually Ore should only reflect the current mineral prices that can be obtained from them, in most instances a lot less than what could be earnt but then not everyone has the refining skills with the corp standings as well. a lot of people dont bother with buying ore because its a pain to lug around compared to the minerals especialy when you need to hump it from a 30%base and or 5%tax station to where you can refine it. but if your useing an orca then you have some dead space for ore anyway so why not. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Ynot Eyob Minmatar Nisroc Angels	Posted - 2009.08.17 11:49:00 - [49] I really hate this Idear and i dont see the point in a ore bay. My alt uses the Orca to move ships build for the market. And the 90k cargo helps with that. After next patch the only benifit for the orca are joined mining ops, where now it can be used for alot more. Today i use it as a mini freighter after patch i will only use it once a week in our united mining op. ________________________ www.danskteamspeak.dk Authorized TeamSpeak host
Arous Drephius	Posted - 2009.08.17 12:55:00 - [50] Edited by: Arous Drephius on 17/08/2009 12:55:54 Originally by: Ynot Eyob I really hate this Idear and i dont see the point in a ore bay. My alt uses the Orca to move ships build for the market. And the 90k cargo helps with that. After next patch the only benifit for the orca are joined mining ops, where now it can be used for alot more. Today i use it as a mini freighter after patch i will only use it once a week in our united mining op. You do know that the cargoholds aren't getting resized, right? For the Rorq and Orca, this patch is nothing but a boost.

PossesedOne	Posted - 2009.08.17 15:22:00 - [51] i have my alt use it to move my ships. i fly a BS and it takes all my cruiser/frig hulls, plus cans containing all the ammo and mods i could ever want. thank to this i only have to make 1 trip to move all i own. i had predicted long ago people would do this, and im still working for more converts. for high sec people it is the ability to be totally nomadic, and thats a high value. i even use it for gang bonus' for a fight. what i do not do is use it for mining ops. this change will mean very little to me, unless maybe i decide to haul ore/minerals and some frig BPs to save me the paltry amount i may lose to a frig loss.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.17 15:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Ynot Eyob I really hate this Idear and i dont see the point in a ore bay. My alt uses the Orca to move ships build for the market. And the 90k cargo helps with that. After next patch the only benifit for the orca are joined mining ops, where now it can be used for alot more. Today i use it as a mini freighter after patch i will only use it once a week in our united mining op. um they did not toutch the rest of the ship it still has its cargohold and corp hanger. the only thing they did was Add the ore bay. your complaint is a lot like complaining about them adding a non missle launcher highslot + some power and CPU to all missle boats and saying there now usless as missle boats therefor you will not be useing them for npcing just the occasional cargo run. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Blasphemour	Posted - 2009.08.18 09:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Ynot Eyob I really hate this Idear and i dont see the point in a ore bay. My alt uses the Orca to move ships build for the market. And the 90k cargo helps with that. After next patch the only benifit for the orca are joined mining ops, where now it can be used for alot more. Today i use it as a mini freighter after patch i will only use it once a week in our united mining op. There is no change to cargohold so no reason to complain. That said, you DO realise it is an industrial command ship, specialized mining ops? You use it for something else, good for you. But don't complain about ships being adapted to fit their intended purpose even better.
Elrinarie Gallente Northern Lights Industries	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Blasphemour There is no change to cargohold so no reason to complain. That said, you DO realise it is an industrial command ship, specialized mining ops? You use it for something else, good for you. But don't complain about ships being adapted to fit their intended purpose even better. Exactly. I was worried here too at first when I heard about this change. The cargo bay is unaffected (thankfully) and a new ore bay is introduced. SO using the orca for ANY other purpose it isn't getting any benefit, but using it for it's intended purpose, the orca just got 50k more space. That's a win for miners. --------------------- Creator of another Mining Calculator
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.18 14:03:00 - [55] Originally by: Letrange Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I still dont get it. How does this make jump freighters more valuable? Furthermore is the ore bay accessible by fleet members? That would make sense for an orca if it replaced the cargo bay. Maybe thats what Im missing here? Here's the logic: Because of the volume per unit of ore and the massive quantities mining ops get, it would be useful if both the Rorqual and the Orca had bigger holds to handle the ore from these ops since they are mining op command ships at their core. BUT increasing the standard cargo hold would turn them into better freighters than freighters (orca because it's faster, rorqual because it would become effectively a T1 jump freighter and what would be the purpose of the jump freighter then???). So by adding specialized bays, this increases the amount of ore these ships can handle (and they are supposed to be mining support ships so this make sense) without impacting their current "general cargo" capacity (and making them better than the current freighter and jump freighter). It is obvious that 50K is small on a Orca and it will fill up in matter of few minutes while a Rorq's 250K goes the same way with/without compressed ore. Beggers to believe the point if these ships with such small ore holders if their supposed fuction is to support mining operations. 27k is a flipcan that fills up in space of a minute or two, Orca's 50K better than 27K no doubth but ok 3 minutes and Reorq's with 250k a little better and full in matter of 10/20 minutes I guess that Orca will be support for two max 3 miners and will constantly be back and forward to empty its cargo. So CCP do please biff up that small ore holds on both industrial ships if they are meant to be miner support ships. Thanks
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.18 14:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Elrinarie Originally by: Blasphemour There is no change to cargohold so no reason to complain. That said, you DO realise it is an industrial command ship, specialized mining ops? You use it for something else, good for you. But don't complain about ships being adapted to fit their intended purpose even better. Exactly. I was worried here too at first when I heard about this change. The cargo bay is unaffected (thankfully) and a new ore bay is introduced. SO using the orca for ANY other purpose it isn't getting any benefit, but using it for it's intended purpose, the orca just got 50k more space. That's a win for miners. It will depend if 50K "more" is in fact "more" Since currently a Orca can hold depending on skills+modules but for the argument lets say 40K on its cargo hold plus 40K on hangar. So in reality Orca currently holds 80K of ore/minerals/modules/etc So if the new 50K ore hold means losing the ability to fill up with ore the cargo hold and hangar... then isn't "more" but a big "less"
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:49:00 - [57] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 18/08/2009 18:48:55 Originally by: WeaponsHot It will depend if 50K "more" is in fact "more" Since currently a Orca can hold depending on skills+modules but for the argument lets say 40K on its cargo hold plus 40K on hangar. So in reality Orca currently holds 80K of ore/minerals/modules/etc So if the new 50K ore hold means losing the ability to fill up with ore the cargo hold and hangar... then isn't "more" but a big "less" I don't think you've been reading these posts right. 50k "more" is in fact 50k more. Not sure where the problem is...it's a whole new hold, in addition to the ones that exist. Sure, it's Sisi, and can change. But seems like CCP is doing nothing but improving the ships here. I'm not sure how anyone is finding a way to complain about this, I think it's great.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:58:00 - [58] Im just glad were not hearing "its a Bay like the Drone bay wtf is up with that since were going to need to dock to put ore into it anyway? Lame." type coments. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Xessej	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:58:00 - [59] I don't see how this is so hard to understand. At present an Orca maxes out at around 130k cubic meters of cargo hold and corp hangar. On Sisi it gets no change other than a 50k ore hold. Which means it now maxes out at 180k m3 when hauling for a mining op. So that's about 40% more cargo capacity when used for its primary role. And its done without pushing the Orca's cargo hold over the 120k m3 mark which CCP clearly feels would make it too big a competitor with the freighters.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Xessej I don't see how this is so hard to understand.. I blame the moron who titled this thread with the word nerf in it twice. . . **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.



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