| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
   |
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:25:00 -
[1]
During a very slow night of piracy, I and my corp mates were talking about problems with piracy in eve. Our #1 hindrance is of course local channel. The fact that everyone in the system instantly knows about everyone else in the system, their corp history, sec status, character age and so on very heavily favors the defender. A true surprise attack, like in w-space, where often the first sign of an enemy is him decloaking 2km away from you heavily favors the attackers. This I don't think anyone disputes.
Now, why won't CCP ever change local no matter how much sense it makes? It's simple. High sec is supposed to be relatively safe. The single most powerful defensive item in the game is not concord, it's local channel as an intel gathering tool. Not only will it tell you about any outlaws, it also tells you about war targets and those with kill rights on you, concord doesn't care about those last two. I actually don't mind this, high sec is supposed to be noob friendly after all.
Low sec is mostly a PvP arena with a bit of carebear food scattered in. Here you can argue that local should stay as it could be considered a stepping stone to null sec. I don't agree with this but the argument can be made. Bubbles and doomsdays don't work there after all and as I low sec pirate, I think that's actually a good thing as it allows for much more small gang and solo pvp.
Null sec is supposed to be the place of empire building and truly unrestricted pvp. The factions have no interest in this area and it's allegedly lawless other than those the players make themselves. Here it should be possible for a lone pirate in a cloaked ship to wreak absolute havoc on the ill-defended. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Every carebear worth his tears has a cloak and instantly warps to a safe spot as soon as a potential hostile enters system. He puts no effort into it, he merely payed attention to the list of pilots in system. At this point he is completely safe, it is impossible as a game mechanic to catch him. Should we nerf cloaking? No, that only grants more power to the major powerblocks and further encourages blob warfare. The solution is to remove local as an intel tool.
Removing local as an intel tool allows people to attack with total surprise as in w-space. It forces ratters/plex'ers to consider pvp in their setups. It also forces alliances to actually enforce their claims on their space and defend it rather than just spamming POS's everywhere. However removing local from null sec will never happen. This is why: nearly everyone in null sec is a carebear. They want null sec to be just as safe as 1.0 space so that they can amass huge amounts of isk in total safety. You see this argument made in every thread about this topic, it's not about fair or gameplay, it's about isk farming in safety. Local is so powerful that guys in Pandemic Legion are using ratting bots in their own space so they can farm isk without even being at their computer. How do I know? Real players don't warp to a safe spot, cloak and stay there for an hour because of a neutral shuttle, bots do and I've tested it a few times.
Local will never be removed because null sec is 100% safe and that's the way 90%+ of the player base wants it. I hate it, it's unfair and bad for the game long term. But the game is run by majority whinage and so it will remain unchanged.
-----------------------------------------------------
|
small chimp
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:28:00 -
[2]
So should the highsec local also be removed or what!!
|
Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:31:00 -
[3]
All I ask for is a 30Sec delay, like the session timer on you showing up in local.
|
Macky Alcaz
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:34:00 -
[4]
very good point, Hisec and lo-sec should have local (due to the concord presence in form of ships / sentry guns)
NULLSEC should be like really dangerous with no local.
I mean, if i would run a plex with my ships and there was no local, i wouldnt panic! id just keep my scanner up and scan for probes and stuff. The intel will be much more important too, you cant really tell whos in the ship until you actually right click it and look at pilot.
I.e. if you see yourself and two other in a system and you know the other one is afk you easily know what type of ship the other one is moving in if you get him on scan. Maybe they should change local to a alliance/fleet/friends display only?
It ruins the sneak up factor, i mean, a black ops creating a black op cyno isnt so black op if hes already spotted by jumping into local -.-. Imagine a full fleet of SB's sneaking up onto a mining operation and dropping bombs while a dictor uncloaks and drops a bubble??
Things would get a bit harder but i think thats why i like eve so much, its complicated to learn but when you get good at something you really rock.
Oh yeah besides that, macro ratters would dissapear too since their program doesnt work without a local lol.
|
small chimp
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:35:00 -
[5]
I am so angry because every 0.0 elite pirate say that even highsec local should be removed. That would mean no dodixie local anymore :(
|
Beer Consumer
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:37:00 -
[6]
The idea that Local should be removed (or turned into "show up only when typing in chat") in 0.0 but left as-is in hisec has been touted so often on these boards I lose count. Ultimately, changing Local functionality would hugely affect the game balance, probably in unpredictable ways. It would also require a lot of test work that would override the introduction of other features. As a result, I expect the status quo to remain for a good while yet. |
Gul Tural
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:39:00 -
[7]
Better start a topic called: "Why topics about local removal will never stop" ....
Sigh ....
|
rubico1337
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:50:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: King Rothgar
This is why: nearly everyone in null sec is a carebear. They want null sec to be just as safe as 1.0 space so that they can amass huge amounts of isk in total safety.
you should run for CSM next time around
im not trolling im being super serial, id vote for you
|
Discrodia
Gallente
Guardian Legion
SCUM.
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:50:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Discrodia on 06/08/2009 12:50:56
/signed for the local-removal idea
Since alliances lack the resources (or ability) to set up the comm hubs, local in 0.0 should be like local in W-space. Would actually encourages some *gasp* border patrolling rather than PvE until the air raid siren goes off.
___________________________________________
MUFFINS :D |
Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:54:00 -
[10]
Local goes a long way to making this feel like an arcade game. That sucks. Also, what you said.
|
|
|
rubico1337
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Discrodia
Edited by: Discrodia on 06/08/2009 12:50:56
/signed for the local-removal idea
Since alliances lack the resources (or ability) to set up the comm hubs, local in 0.0 should be like local in W-space. Would actually encourages some *gasp* border patrolling rather than PvE until the air raid siren goes off.
i agree, but there needs to be a change in static belts, WHspace is perfect in that in order to catch someone you have to scan either them or the site out first instead of just warping cloaked to the belts using dscanner. static belts i think give a bit to much to the attacker, scannable spawned grav sites however would be perfect.
no local would work both ways the attacker would not be sure if someone is in system till he gets a hit on scanner.
|
Nikolay Tesla
Minmatar
Nomadic Angels
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:58:00 -
[12]
Make local chat everywhere like in W-space. If you talk, then you pop up and unveil yourself, if you keep your wide mouth shut, nobody knows that you're there if not docked ofc.
|
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 06/08/2009 13:04:32
I agree that belts should cease to be static and require probing. That would go a long ways to balance things out as if you remove local from null sec without changing anything else, I can enter system in a pilgrim, find you on directional, warp to belt at 100km to get exact location and then warp out and come back to you in range. You have zero warning and the only way to get by it is to have scouts at the gates. However, make all the belts require probing and suddenly you have a chance to see probes before I get you. That I think is fair.
Edit: As said before, this will never happen. There are far too many people who want to remove non-consensual pvp from eve.
-----------------------------------------------------
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:03:00 -
[14]
Unless they nerf scanning there is no way they can remove local.
Good scanning depends largely on player skills(beyond skill points) and there is no defense to it a highly competent player other than local.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
xXThunder StruckXx
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:06:00 -
[15]
then take your sorry whinging arse out of decon and into WH space. All you guys seem to do is whine that the game doesn't suit the way you wish to play it. Learn the tactics needed or STFU ( and btw, suicide ganking miners won't assist you in the learning of the required skillz department. )
|
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ghoest
Good scanning depends largely on player skills(beyond skill points) and there is no defense to it a highly competent player other than local.
I agree and that's a good thing. Player skill should trump skill points. There are defenses, it's called warp core stabs or you know, actually putting guns on your ship. That works too.
-----------------------------------------------------
|
rubico1337
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: xXThunder StruckXx
then take your sorry whinging arse out of decon and into WH space. All you guys seem to do is whine that the game doesn't suit the way you wish to play it. Learn the tactics needed or STFU ( and btw, suicide ganking miners won't assist you in the learning of the required skillz department. )
did you even read any of the thread?
oh thats right, ninja edit 4tw right?
|
Erinyes Nazgul
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:11:00 -
[18]
Quote:
that's the way 90%+ of the player base wants it.
Since EVE is a BUSINESS, that sounds like a good plan. 
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:14:00 -
[19]
Um, some 0.0 dwellers would be delighted to have delayed local. Like me.
|
Nikolay Tesla
Minmatar
Nomadic Angels
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ghoest
Unless they nerf scanning there is no way they can remove local.
Good scanning depends largely on player skills(beyond skill points) and there is no defense to it a highly competent player other than local.
Carebear spotted.
|
|
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: small chimp
I am so angry because every 0.0 elite pirate say that even highsec local should be removed. That would mean no dodixie local anymore :(
Socializing is what Constellation chat is for. Imagine Dodixie's local, only spread across the entire constellation for a player group. It's a social buff, not a nerf.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
rubico1337
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Malcanis
Um, some 0.0 dwellers would be delighted to have delayed local. Like me.
then its a win-win!
whent is the patch date? ill bring pizza, who has the beer?
|
Gunnanmon
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:19:00 -
[23]
Great summary of the situation, and why it should be changed.
However, you might as well have posted it in the Waste Of Time Forum. aka Ideas Discussion, or whatever it's called nowadays.
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
|
Roxanna Kell
SandStorm.
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:23:00 -
[24]
I whined about local in 0.0 sicne 2004 :P.
but, its liek speaking thru deaf ears. CCP simply believes that removing local in 0.0 will suddenly create huge lag in empire, or completly destroy their player base somewhat.
Let us never forget, they are a business, thats why we get lied to all the tiem about release dates, and content that never comes to be just to make us stay in the game. we re just droens hooked on the only true pvp world, and yet.
CCP lacks the freaking balls to say, screw you carebears, we re removing local in 0.0.
CCP unfortunetly have become a carebear themselves. so op is right, local will enver be removed, and i will never go back to nl sec again, iam having a way more fun in low sec this year since i resubscribed after a year break casue of the mentioned problem.
Least here, we can play unrealistic dock and undock games, and tank bait with maurauders.
Quote:
Knowledge is having a forward scout in a roaming op, wisdom is to scout the rear as well.
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
Um, some 0.0 dwellers would be delighted to have delayed local. Like me.
If local were removed for 0.0, I'd move there and never leave.
One of *the* largest problems with blobs is local. Being able to know the EXACT location and number of your enemy with 100% accuracy is why blobs are such a massive problem in Eve.
If local didn't exist as it does now then I think you'd see more guerilla warfare and small unit tactics as those smaller forces will be able to hide from the larger ones more effectively. There would also be the possibility of splitting one large force into several smaller strike teams to attack multiple targets at once.
The #1 problem with non-consensual PVP in Eve is the local channel. It needs to be changed. W-space works fine without it. If delayed local were applied to 0.0 it would scale just as easily. Sure, all the carebears would cry foul at first- new ways of thinking would have to evolve to adapt player tactics to the new environment but it would stabilize within a few weeks I'm sure.
Watch this thread closely. Everyone who is against the idea is most certainly a carebear.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:41:00 -
[26]
I'm a carebear, and i support the removal of local.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
|
Count Helmchen
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:45:00 -
[27]
fail pirates will stay fail pirtates ... removing local does not change it
|
Gwydion Telcontar
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 13:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Gwydion Telcontar on 06/08/2009 13:57:24
I'd support local removal in 0.0 when sov holders get better tools to defend their space from afk cloakers. Until then, no way.
Edit: spelling
|
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 14:05:00 -
[29]
That's actually kinda the point, if you remove local, then there is no point in afk cloaking. There are two reasons to afk cloak in a hostile system. One is to mess with the locals, remove the channel and it doesn't work because they don't know you're there. The other is to setup a gank. The reason to afk cloak for a gank is local tells everyone you are there. You cannot kill anyone at that point. You must wait for several hours (hopefully afk) until they settle down and start ratting/missioning again. At that point you can attack with at least a hope of success. Even then if they are paying attention, the attack will probably fail but only about half the people playing this don't pay attention. So it's afk cloak for 2-3 hours for a 50% chance of a fight, no guarantees your "victim" won't kill you rather than the other way around.
-----------------------------------------------------
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 14:08:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mag''s on 06/08/2009 14:16:41
Originally by: Gwydion Telcontar
I'd support local removal in 0.0 when sov holders get better tools to defend their space from afk cloakers. Until then, no way.
Yea those pesky afk cloakers are always blowing up ships, more tools like this man are needed.
On topic, 0.0 local removal would work I guess, but the whole scanning system needs an overhaul.
Regards
Mag's |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |