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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.08.06 14:09:00 -
[31]
It's a disgrace that what should be the second most important role in any gang or fleet - that of scout - is so often devalued into "look at local, move to next system".
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Leighanne
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Posted - 2009.08.06 14:17:00 -
[32]
Local will not be removed UNTIL everything in system has to be scanned down, belts complexes etc (excluding planets the sun and the moons).
The reason for this is PVP people can hunt miners far more easily then miners can protect themselves. Why? Because PVPers know where miners are (in the warpable to belts) but Miners have no way of telling aside from local if people are coming for them or merely passing through. If PVPers had to scan down the belts the miners were in then the miners could see them coming by using the directional scanner to look for probes. This means the PVPers have to be skilled to catch miners who are not watching the scanner or be really skilled at keeping your probes out only for a short time (People boast about being able to do this and it does work if your worth anything).
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker. This is exactly why no local in Wormholes works and why it is awesome.
I'm a huge carebear and I support no local and no warpable belts in space. I mine in lowsec, 0.0 and everywhere but ONLY in mining complexes because I can see PVPers coming if I'm not being a useless sack of goo and that's the way it should be.
Attackers have to be sneaky to get the drop and defenders have to be vigilant to survive.
Also it would be nice if probes were selectable as an overview setting so that I don't have to scroll through 50million Angel wrecks to find the bit that talks about what probes are currently enroute to obliterate me, but one thing at a time.
Also I would like to point out that PVP setups do not work for mission running partially because NPC's are rubbish and do small dmg over a long time so passive regen or medium perma tanks work well, where as in PVP players are rubbish only 50% of the time and do large dmg for a short period of time, requiring a large high EHP buffer tank. Secondly, Deadspace usually disallows MWD's which means short range "PVP type" weapons such as torps and Blaster etc can't work because NPC's can use MWD's to keep you out of range but you can't use MWD's to get back into range.
Simply - PVP setups don't work in PVE and PVE setups don't work in PVP.
The exception to this is Wormhole space, where sleepers are more creative and running a RR buffer tank gang can be very effective therefore farmers can be prepared for both PVP and PVE at the same time. Wormhole space is what 0.0 may eventually become when CCP rolls out their future patch ideas as outlined in the Dev blogs for the future.
Until then Local must remain to prevent horrific unbalancing in favour of the attacker AND horrific unbalancing in favour of the defender.
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Gwydion Telcontar
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2009.08.06 14:28:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: King Rothgar
That's actually kinda the point, if you remove local, then there is no point in afk cloaking.
Sure there is. Penetrate the area when defences are at their lowest (bad timezone, whatever), and strike later when the ratters/miners/whatever are out in force. AFK cloaking would be even worse with local gone.
It wouldn't be so re-tardingly easy if invaders had to go through scouted gates to get to the soft targets every time.
But as I said, with other mechanic changes, I'm all for local being gone as an intel tool.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 14:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gwydion Telcontar
Edited by: Gwydion Telcontar on 06/08/2009 13:57:24
I'd support local removal in 0.0 when sov holders get better tools to defend their space from afk cloakers. Until then, no way.
Edit: spelling
Make using the scanner deactivate the cloak for T1/T2 Improved cloaks tbh. That gives you 30 seconds.
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Biggi Raeubertochter
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.08.06 14:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: King Rothgar
/pile of crap
I agree and that's a good thing. Player skill should trump skill points. There are defenses, it's called warp core stabs or you know, actually putting guns on your ship. That works too.
/end pile of crap
Your Pile of Trash gets the golden award for the stupiest post of the day.
As for the warpstabs: /facepalm
If i wanted to fit warpstabs id attach them to a transporter which isnt ever supposed to get into any combat activities. You cant have warpstabs fitted AND do any reasonable combat activities at the same time, since one warpstab is not enough.
Its true that the victim has no defense at all. Theyre either ratting or doing plexes or whatever, and dont have the time to hit their scan button every 5 seconds.
Where the griefers (and in this case its only stupid grievers who want local removed) have all the advantages, they have enough time to get the proper ships, fit the proper setups, and/or get a buddy, so they cant possibly lose the engagement.
More so because the victim is only partially pvp fitted for the most parts, or not pvp fitted at all, if theyre running missions.
So all those morons are wanting is a "I GANK" Button with zero risk.
so:
just shut up you geeks, they will never remove Local from low sec or 0.0. And now you all can crawl back into your cellars where you belong.
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Descrambled
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:00:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Malcanis
Um, some 0.0 dwellers would be delighted to have delayed local. Like me.
If local were removed for 0.0, I'd move there and never leave.
One of *the* largest problems with blobs is local. Being able to know the EXACT location and number of your enemy with 100% accuracy is why blobs are such a massive problem in Eve.
If local didn't exist as it does now then I think you'd see more guerilla warfare and small unit tactics as those smaller forces will be able to hide from the larger ones more effectively. There would also be the possibility of splitting one large force into several smaller strike teams to attack multiple targets at once.
The #1 problem with non-consensual PVP in Eve is the local channel. It needs to be changed. W-space works fine without it. If delayed local were applied to 0.0 it would scale just as easily. Sure, all the carebears would cry foul at first- new ways of thinking would have to evolve to adapt player tactics to the new environment but it would stabilize within a few weeks I'm sure.
Watch this thread closely. Everyone who is against the idea is most certainly a carebear.
Excellent post yo. I love that last line haha. It's the sad truth tho (that last line)
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Biggi Raeubertochter
Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 06/08/2009 14:48:19
Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 06/08/2009 14:45:28
/pile of crap
Originally by: King Rothgar
I agree and that's a good thing. Player skill should trump skill points. There are defenses, it's called warp core stabs or you know, actually putting guns on your ship. That works too.
/end pile of crap
Your Pile of Trash gets the golden award for the stupiest post of the day.
As for the warpstabs: /facepalm
If i wanted to fit warpstabs id attach them to a transporter which isnt ever supposed to get into any combat activities. You cant have warpstabs fitted AND do any reasonable combat activities at the same time (as in ratting or plexing or what), since one warpstab is not enough to safe you from an antiwarp effect.
The fact is, if theyd remove local, the victim had no defense at all. Most people would be either ratting or doing plexes or whatever, and dont have the time and nerves to hit their scan button every 5 seconds.
Where the griefers (and in this case its only the cowardly sissis who cant possibly stand a fair 1v1, who want local removed) have all the advantages on their side, they have enough time to get the proper ships, fit the proper setups, and/or get a buddy. all in all, for these cowards its a guaranteed kill without any risk.
More so because the victim is only partially pvp fitted for the most parts, or not pvp fitted at all, if theyre running missions.
So all those morons that are wanting a "I GANK" Button with zero risk: GROW SOME BALLS!
all in all:
just shut up you geeks, they will never remove Local from low sec or 0.0. And now you all can crawl back into your cellars where you belong.
So you think that no amount of player skill should have an effect on EVE?
I too hold your views. I believe my millions of skill points should make up for all my personal failings as a dumbass, and save me and my pixels at every possible point in time.
I also hold your belief that the defenders should ALWAYS hold all the cards, silly "grief players" trying to turn MY EVE into a battleground all the time, when all I want is to mine in peace!!!
In short...
Go play in traffic you douche
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zartanic on 06/08/2009 15:19:05
Edited by: Zartanic on 06/08/2009 15:17:18
Im a carebear and Im for the idea. I like WH's and the fact not only do I have to scan to work out who is in it but so do they. I have wandered around a lot of WH's untouched as they can't scan me fast enough and I'm sure many times they simply did not even know I was there. I played cat and mouse in a WH with two ships yesterday and with local that would have been no fun at all. In fact it helps all players as I can wander around in a pure PVP fit If I want.
EDIT: They would have to fix the 'hit scan every 5 seconds' thing though as honestly my fingers simply give out doing that. I'm waiting for the first RSI law suits against CCP for this stupid requirement
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Biggi Raeubertochter
Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 06/08/2009 14:48:19
Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 06/08/2009 14:45:28
/pile of crap
Originally by: King Rothgar
I agree and that's a good thing. Player skill should trump skill points. There are defenses, it's called warp core stabs or you know, actually putting guns on your ship. That works too.
/end pile of crap
Your Pile of Trash gets the golden award for the stupiest post of the day.
As for the warpstabs: /facepalm
If i wanted to fit warpstabs id attach them to a transporter which isnt ever supposed to get into any combat activities. You cant have warpstabs fitted AND do any reasonable combat activities at the same time (as in ratting or plexing or what), since one warpstab is not enough to safe you from an antiwarp effect.
The fact is, if theyd remove local, the victim had no defense at all. Most people would be either ratting or doing plexes or whatever, and dont have the time and nerves to hit their scan button every 5 seconds.
Where the griefers (and in this case its only the cowardly sissis who cant possibly stand a fair 1v1, who want local removed) have all the advantages on their side, they have enough time to get the proper ships, fit the proper setups, and/or get a buddy. all in all, for these cowards its a guaranteed kill without any risk.
More so because the victim is only partially pvp fitted for the most parts, or not pvp fitted at all, if theyre running missions.
So all those morons that are wanting a "I GANK" Button with zero risk: GROW SOME BALLS!
all in all:
just shut up you geeks, they will never remove Local from low sec or 0.0. And now you all can crawl back into your cellars where you belong.
As per my earlier post- *carebear detected*.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Ace2001
Caldari
Steele-Moose Astrodynamics Research
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:42:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ace2001 on 06/08/2009 15:46:07
*Raises hand.*
Uhm, yes. From what I've seen, the reason why local will never be removed is because of stargates, yes? I recall reading somewhere (either from back-story or RolePlay perspective) that when you go through a gate, the operators at said gate alert everybody in-system of the new arrival. (Or something like that.) The reason why you don't show up in WH local unless you talk is beacuse there are no stargates to alert anybody of your arrival. So only way anybody would know you are there is if you transmit something. (Talk/Type, and of course the second you warp in ontop of them and start shooting at them.)
So if they DID decide to someday remove local, how would they explain that? That all 0.0 stargate opperators quit their job because it was too dangerous out there with no defences/turrets to protect them against the insane pod-pilots?(And the Rats that decide to spawn at the gate.)
Now, maybe giving a timer to it; like waiting 10-15 seconds could be explained and delt with alright. But full out removing it? No, I don't ever see that happening nor being explained. D:
P.S. I apologize if I've said anything that's already been stated here. :D I only read about 1/3 of the posts.
Edit: Huh. Y'know, it may be my half asleep brain, but "Stargate" doesn't seem like the right word usage here. ...Eh, I'm sure if I'm wrong somebody will correct me.(Read: Flame.)
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:58:00 -
[41]
Here's a little mission running story that illustrates my point-
A while back I decided that I wanted to do some high sec war stuff so I started running some missions in the Uphallant area. Everything was going just fine until *gasp* some dirty nasty pirates spied my ship on scan and decided they were going to do me in. 
So my buddy and I were sitting there, running a L4 mission (Blockade or something), he in a Drake and me in my Dominix. In warps two PVP fit Sleipnirs. Uh oh.
Long story short- they died. Quickly. And they were faction fit. I think all told they lost about a billion ISK that fight between the two newly built Command Ships.
Now, if I can do it, anyone can. The only difference between me and all the rest of the failures out there who can't seem to not be killed in missions is this: skill and competence. A few other factors also come into play: not being a greedy mission ***** and not being lazy. Having a friend along doesn't hurt either.
I'm sick of hearing about how horrible it is for mission runners. That they can't mission in a PVP fit ship. My Dominix that I was running the mission with *WAS* PVP fit. Hence the two dead Sleipnirs. The majority (not all, but most) of the mission runners out there want ISK for free. They don't think they should have to take personal responsibility for defending themselves. And frankly, most of them are simply too stupid to do it with any degree of competence anyway. But is this a bad thing? Of course not. It's simply natural selection at work. The people who are resisting the removal of local are just trying to retain their safety blanket at all costs because they're too lazy to operate without it.
Probably the *only* reason that could possibly justify keeping local chat is the social issue, and that's a non issue because of two things: 1, it's delayed mode, not removed. If you still want to talk, you can. 2, Constellation chat. If you want to run your mouth that bad, there's a WHOLE CONSTELLATION that you have access to your garbage drivel. Have at it.
Slightly off topic- some dood in a Curse can flipped me while I was missioning in Dodixie a while back, thinking he'd get an easy kill on my Abaddon. One dead Curse later he found out that wasn't such a good idea.
Honestly, I can't see how everyone has so many problems with 'pirates'. It's not that difficult.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Borntorule
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:01:00 -
[42]
removing local in 0.0 would suck.
You have to spend endless hours to claim a territory and establish your alliance there. System owners should have clear advantages over some pirates. I would even say, remove local for not alliance members only in sov 4 systems. This Local thingy would only favor the "wanna be pirates".
Plus we need more reasons to get ppl out to Low sec and 0.0 and not another nerf to leave high sec that profitable as it is today.
And tbh, if you are a low sec pirate and can't find any targets then you're doing something wrong |
DJ Obsidian
New Eden Technical Institutes
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:03:00 -
[43]
WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE!!!!
posting in another ****** remove local thread because i can!!!
As I said in the other 13513 remove local threads, just pull out local from your chat box, turn blink off and minimize it and dont look at it.
OMG WHAT A CONCEPT OF NOT LOOKING AT IT!!!
Within a week or two you will be looking at local again and wearing your tinfoil hat at the same time.
you say you want local removed, you all know you look at local for intel and to see who is there and who you want to gank.
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STRK52ND
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:40:00 -
[44]
Pirate tears! So sweet, and yet so bitter.
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Dravius Luxor
Minmatar
Phoibe Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:51:00 -
[45]
Yeah... this again!
I used to spend most of my time roaming through 0.0, now it's wh-space.
The reason? Of course, no local. There are so many valid points in this thread (and all the others) it's simply staggering that CCP haven't removed it yet.
There are still a lot of macro-ratters out there, only visible of course because of local, but also protected by it.
I also agree with the 'carebear' aspect too - because of one little chat channel - 0.0 is safer than highsec. Talk about risk vs reward... 3 X 1.5 mil BS's are unlikely to down your Raven, and you can avoid everyone else!
I think I saw an afk cloaker post in here somewhere??? Is that not a 'meme' or 'pun' by now? Either way, if you don't know he's there you don't need to sit biting your fingernails, in case your faction tower suddenly explodes without warning  .
Anyway, local ruins 0.0, impairs lowsec, and is irritating in highsec. That's my opinion, for the record. It also allows some of the worse aspects of this game to continue unhindered 23/7.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:01:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Heavy Influence
Atropos.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:04:00 -
[47]
While I understand that the removal of local in 0.0 could have some profound and unsuspected changes, I think a 30 second delay while jumping in to a system before showing up in local would be an awesome change to the current dynamic.
Or even a delayed local until your initial jump cloak is broken. This would give you time to report intel back to your FC while you remain hidden, or to scan down a couple nearby belts. As soon as you break cloak, you pop into local.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Soporo
Quote:
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker.
So move all belts to exploration. I'm all for it.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Argounova
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:09:00 -
[49]
Do you use local to determine if a system has any targets for you to pirate? I realize it's not that hard to scan around looking. I'm all for getting rid of it in 0.0.
I'm just wondering if you're taking into account that without it, you'll have to search down targets, and know nothing about the ship your about to hit.
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: TimMc on 06/08/2009 17:10:05
I would love local to be removed, but then I would never ever live in 0.0 again and simply harvest tears while mission running in empire. Profits of risking 0.0 should increase too.
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Arte
Damage over Time
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:28:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Arte on 06/08/2009 17:36:52
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Soporo
Quote:
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker.
So move all belts to exploration. I'm all for it.
This, and make it like WH space - in 0.0.
But...give sov-related ability to scan local through modules at POS's, such as an anchorable module that has to be manned to give intel. A POS gunner qualified person (same skill set) can open up the module interface, see who is in system (like local now) and report. If it isn't manned, the intel isn't there.
I'd support session change stily restrictions on display of local in low-sec.
Reasons being, in low-sec, there are navies so they may report entry and exit, just not as quick as in hi-sec. The time for the display of local can be related to the sec rating so once and for all, that makes a palpable difference
This might mean that there is a scaleable difference between low and hi-sec and in null-sec, manning space gives intel but only by applying live assets to it. Yes I'm probably a carebear Bellum, but I think there has to be some compromise between current functionality and the desire to make it more like WH space; initially at least.
Thoughts on the module idea?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Whisper
"So you're going to have to do some actual thinking..."
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Argounova
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:38:00 -
[52]
Scenario w/out local:
Pirate warps into system. Takes some time to scan around. Finds a target and proceeds to it. In the meantime.. anyone with an ounce of sense now has a cloak and has learned, out of necessity, how to scan constantly (it's not *that* hard). Sees you nearby and cloaks out. Now where are you? Are they sitting there cloaked? Did they cloak and go get a sandwich? Did they logout? Hmm.. next system I guess.
While you might catch them, I think you'd find it might actaully be harder then it originally was with local on. People have away of adapting in this game.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nikolay Tesla
Originally by: Ghoest
Unless they nerf scanning there is no way they can remove local.
Good scanning depends largely on player skills(beyond skill points) and there is no defense to it a highly competent player other than local.
Carebear spotted.
Ive probably been playing in low sec and 0.0 longer than you.
Just because I dont think gankers should always win doesnt mean Im wrong.
And for the guy that suggested fitting guns and Mag stabs - I dont think he even knows what the conversation is about.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Arte
But...give sov-related ability to scan local through modules at POS's, such as an anchorable module that has to be manned to give intel. A POS gunner qualified person (same skill set) can open up the module interface, see who is in system (like local now) and report. If it isn't manned, the intel isn't there.
I'd support session change restricted display of local in low-sec.
Reasons being, in low-sec, there are navies so they may report entry and exit, just not as quick as in hi-sec.
This might mean that there is a scaleable difference between low and hi-sec. Manning space gives intel but only by applying assets to it. Yes I'm probably a carebear Bellum, but I think there has to be some compromise between current functionality and the desire to make it more like WH space; initially at least. Thoughts on the module idea?
Quite frankly I'm 100% against anything that allows an already heavily entrenched alliance to further protect itself from attacks as the game is horribly stagnate already, but I'll concede that there has to be a little reciprocity with respect to some sort of defensive intel tool.
A manned POS module would be ok but it should have high fuel requirements, use some sort of isotope per use and have a fairly long cooldown between uses, say 10-20 minutes. Being able to take an exact snapshot of everyone's bodycount in local is an extremely powerful tool. It should be expensive to use.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Arte
But...give sov-related ability to scan local through modules at POS's, such as an anchorable module that has to be manned to give intel. A POS gunner qualified person (same skill set) can open up the module interface, see who is in system (like local now) and report. If it isn't manned, the intel isn't there.
I'd support session change restricted display of local in low-sec.
Reasons being, in low-sec, there are navies so they may report entry and exit, just not as quick as in hi-sec.
This might mean that there is a scaleable difference between low and hi-sec. Manning space gives intel but only by applying assets to it. Yes I'm probably a carebear Bellum, but I think there has to be some compromise between current functionality and the desire to make it more like WH space; initially at least. Thoughts on the module idea?
Quite frankly I'm 100% against anything that allows an already heavily entrenched alliance to further protect itself from attacks as the game is horribly stagnate already, but I'll concede that there has to be a little reciprocity with respect to some sort of defensive intel tool.
A manned POS module would be ok but it should have high fuel requirements, use some sort of isotope per use and have a fairly long cooldown between uses, say 10-20 minutes. Being able to take an exact snapshot of everyone's bodycount in local is an extremely powerful tool. It should be expensive to use.
Being manned means there will be an alt for the job, with a macro if a button needs to be pushed once in a while.
While I agree with the sentiment of stagnating space with entrenched alliances, I don't think it would be too much if constellation capitals had instant Local via some pos modules or outpost upgrades (that can be destroyed).
...
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:23:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Amitious Turkey on 06/08/2009 18:26:25
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Soporo
Quote:
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker.
So move all belts to exploration. I'm all for it.
I like it, but only if barges get an extra highslot and a bonus so they can fit a Core probe launcher.
I used to love 0.0 because it seemed so big. Now I rarely go at all because I don't always have the "connections". I say let sov 4 systems have standard local (or even 1-2 jumps around that sov 4 system), everywhere else should be fair game.
My sig was fail, but now it isn't.
Originally by: CCP Navigator
We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
CAPSLOCKBROKE
Exploratory Technologies
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Gul Tural
Better start a topic called: "Why topics about local removal will never stop" ....
Sigh ....
Done.
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"ACH! HANS, RUN! ITS THE TROLL!"
~CAPSLOCKBROKE, last words |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:31:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Amitious Turkey
Edited by: Amitious Turkey on 06/08/2009 18:26:25
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Soporo
Quote:
Until Miners have to scan down belts that do not appear on the overview there must be local otherwise ALL favour lies with the attacker.
So move all belts to exploration. I'm all for it.
I like it, but only if barges get an extra highslot and a bonus so they can fit a Core probe launcher.
I used to love 0.0 because it seemed so big. Now I rarely go at all because I don't always have the "connections". I say let sov 4 systems have standard local (or even 1-2 jumps around that sov 4 system), everywhere else should be fair game.
No, just make all belts probable with the on-board built in scanner.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: King Rothgar
During a very slow night of piracy...
Let's wonder why it was a very slow night... (hint: it's not about local)
Quote:
...Rest of badly tought out stuff...
Where is the part of your reasoning about the previsible consequences of removing local?
Oh, that's right, you stopped before that part. That's why you fail.
Quote:
Null sec is supposed to be the place of empire building and truly unrestricted pvp. The factions have no interest in this area and it's allegedly lawless other than those the players make themselves. Here it should be possible for a lone pirate in a cloaked ship to wreak absolute havoc on the ill-defended. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Every carebear worth his tears has a cloak and instantly warps to a safe spot as soon as a potential hostile enters system. He puts no effort into it, he merely payed attention to the list of pilots in system. At this point he is completely safe, it is impossible as a game mechanic to catch him. Should we nerf cloaking? No, that only grants more power to the major powerblocks and further encourages blob warfare. The solution is to remove local as an intel tool.
Removing local as an intel tool allows people to attack with total surprise as in w-space. It forces ratters/plex'ers to consider pvp in their setups. It also forces alliances to actually enforce their claims on their space and defend it rather than just spamming POS's everywhere. However removing local from null sec will never happen. This is why: nearly everyone in null sec is a carebear. They want null sec to be just as safe as 1.0 space so that they can amass huge amounts of isk in total safety. You see this argument made in every thread about this topic, it's not about fair or gameplay, it's about isk farming in safety. Local is so powerful that guys in Pandemic Legion are using ratting bots in their own space so they can farm isk without even being at their computer. How do I know? Real players don't warp to a safe spot, cloak and stay there for an hour because of a neutral shuttle, bots do and I've tested it a few times.
Local will never be removed because null sec is 100% safe and that's the way 90%+ of the player base wants it. I hate it, it's unfair and bad for the game long term. But the game is run by majority whinage and so it will remain unchanged.
Edits: Just some typos, nothing major.
tl,dr version:
- carebear pirate: "WHAAAA, I can't roam freely in other's people empires, they are blobbing, NOT FAIR!"
- random reader: "You're alone, they're ten camping that gate, why shouldn't they catch you?"
- carebear pirate: "BECAUSE THEY'RE TEN! They blob! They're carebears!"
Joke aside, here's the previsible consequence of just removing local:
- Raomers have a field day. Because they know where the good ratting systems are, no local advantage them big time.
- Ratters do a quick calculation, find out that grinding missions in empire bring decent money, without the chore of updating the scanner every 5 seconds.
- 0.0 become mostly empty except in alliances peak times, pirates have the choice between wandering around without any prey in sight, or being chased by large gangs of bored pvpers.
- High-sec become even more populated, null-sec even more empty. CCP doesn't want that.
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MrJohn Shaft
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:35:00 -
[60]
I just love the idea of roaming through 0.0 and having to warp 300au around the system just to see that there is a ship at a POS unmanned. Let's do it!
Honestly, from roaming 0.0 now, you'll find hundreds of empty systems (which would then take an extra 10 minutes to pass through with this change).
Also for whoever thinks that removing local will reduce blobs... uh yeah... people will just bring more just because they cant get an accurate number of hostiles. Something along the lines of "They might have 50 if we only go with 30 we're gonna get spanked, get another 30 guys and we can go" Rather than "They've go 30, get 40 and let's go"
The whole ratter being safe because of local thing is pretty moot too. Any ratter paying attention will be 100% safe anyway, just stick an alt on the gate and you are golden, where as the roamer has to warp around for hours just to see if theres anyone around.
Having done WHs too, 75 percent are empty, but you still have to spend the time warping around and probing. The clever ones have an alt sat in the entrance gate so they can warp out anytime they want.
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