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What is so great about non-consensual pvp?

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EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:34:00 - [1] The more time passes, the less i get it. What is the point of a game? having fun, getting better at it the more you play it. Emulation: learn from your adversary, improve yourself when you see he's better. So we have non-consensual pvp in EvE, and let's face it, we should rather call it ganking or griefing, since the purpose is not to see purdy explosions -go play freespace2- but reap EMORAGE from some unknown dude over the internet. While it may be enjoyable for the dealing end of the process, it's mostly infuriating for the receiving end. Enter endless complaints about this or that, and armchair tough guys' 'welcome to eve' The community is steadily becoming worse and worse. The gaming community at large, btw. See DOTA gameplay and its clones: deny and gank, which is basically annoy the hell out of your enemy and revel in its rage. Non-consensual pvp doesn't make players good. People who would fight but don't wanna spend hours dodging camps or assessing whether situation a6b25 is a trap, just stay in highsec. They don't improve at dogfighting. Pdople who like pvp indulge in cheap tactics to get the upper hand. This is not improving, this is taking advantage of deficient gameplay (dock forever, unevolved police AI). Non-consensual pvp is a good idea in a MMORPG that actually has a self-sufficient setting, a universe where npcs act amongst themselves and regulate crime. Also, alts: biggest problem in EvE. Non-consensual pvp would work if the playing field was level, if there were consequences for your actions and if tactics you could use actually made sense. At the moment, it does not. What we have is ganking, griefing, and endless forum garbage. This has to end. In b4 witty(?) one-liners, randroids huff and puffing, gankers enjoying online spotlight, and Malcanis.
Quantar Raalsken Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:38:00 - [2] i c what u did thar.....EpicFailTroll ======= Homeworld Hamachi Network
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:43:00 - [3] I give it 3 more replies before someone falls for it.
Bestofworst Worstofbest Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:44:00 - [4] 2 more replys ________________________________________________ My Music
xXxSatsujinxXx Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:46:00 - [5] stuffz?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:46:00 - [6] Originally by: EpicFailTroll In b4 witty(?) one-liners, randroids huff and puffing, gankers enjoying online spotlight, and Malcanis. sup
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:48:00 - [7] Originally by: xXxSatsujinxXx stuffz? WWIFAT? does not make sense Still no customer? who can prove EFT wrong?
Clementina Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:53:00 - [8] The more time passes, the less I get it. What is the point of the forums? Learning Eve, getting better at it the more you read them. Literacy: learn from your fellow players, improve yourself when you see they are better. So we have low-quality posting on the forums, and let's face it, we should rather call it trolling or flaming, since the purpose is not to see enlightenment -go play Eve- but reape EMORAGE from some unknown dude over the internet. While it may be enjoyable for the dealing end of the process, it's mostly infuriating for the receiving end. Enter endless complaints about this or that, and armchair tough guys' 'welcome to eve' The community is steadily becoming worse and worse. The forum community at large, btw. See CAOD forums and their clones: troll and flame, which is basically annoy the hell out of your enemy and revel in its rage. Low-quality forum posting doesn't make players good. People who would read but don't wanna spend hours filtering trolls or assessing whether post 128 is a flame, just don't read the forums. They don't improve at Eve. People who like forums indulge in cheap tactics to get the upper hand. This is not improving, this is taking advantage of deficient moderation (mods on vacation, unevolved forum AI). Low-quality forum posts are a good idea in a thread that actually is nothing but a troll, a thread where posters act amongst themselves to mock ****-posters. Also, alts: biggest problem on the forums. Low-quality forum posts would work if the playing field was level, if there were consequences for your actions and if topics that were made actually made sense. At the moment, they do not. What we have is trolling, flaming, and endless forum garbage. This has to end. In after witty one-liners, huff and puffing, gankers enjoying online spotlight, and Malcanis.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Clementina srsly guy How do you debate on gameplay? by playing the game? does not work. Since i don't live in Iceland and cannot explain time and time again to the faces of devs why their game goes terribly wrong, despite the financial success (eg Monsanto), EFT's only hope is forum warfare, despite the overwhelming odds.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:59:00 - [10] The OP is sp right this game need to learn so much from games like hello kitty online and even WOW!!! just using wow as an example there you got lots of consentual pvp. As soon you leave a city you can find hundreds of opposing faction members holding the instance gates, Camping oh noes!! they are just waiting in line for the next chance to ninja a saved isntance from the other 100 groups across the server. Also you must check Wow forums ppl not whine about gank or unbalanced things, they simply discuss all the matters like any mature community should do. We have to learn sooo much from games like wow -------------------------------------- You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:03:00 - [11] LMAO. Humour. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Sadayiel The OP is sp right this game need to learn so much from games like hello kitty online and even WOW!!! just using wow as an example there you got lots of consentual pvp. As soon you leave a city you can find hundreds of opposing faction members holding the instance gates, Camping oh noes!! they are just waiting in line for the next chance to ninja a saved isntance from the other 100 groups across the server. Also you must check Wow forums ppl not whine about gank or unbalanced things, they simply discuss all the matters like any mature community should do. We have to learn sooo much from games like wow I give you one Tigole point for WOW analogy. It's a horrible game where you use other people to fulfill your goals (and they're very dumb, loot), instead of getting stuff done as a team, which does in fact happen in EvE, and is great when it's not about getting cheap ganks. The catastrophic atmosphere of the community in Blizzard's game stems from this very egoistical-driven gameplay. People raid with other people, but they are not as much fellow gamers as they are tools to get tokens. Note: this is not true if you play with RL friends. But then again, even DOTA is not rage-inducing with RL friends. But playing with RL friends kind of defeats the magic of online gaming.
Clementina Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Clementina Trolling our troll How do you debate on gameplay? By playing the game! It does work. Even though I don't live in Iceland and cannot explain time and time again to the faces of devs why their game goes terrifically right, despite their financial success (eg SOE), EFT warrior's only hope is forum warfare, due to their underwhelming skills.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Sadayiel The OP is sp right this game need to learn so much from games like hello kitty online and even WOW!!! just using wow as an example there you got lots of consentual pvp. As soon you leave a city you can find hundreds of opposing faction members holding the instance gates, Camping oh noes!! they are just waiting in line for the next chance to ninja a saved isntance from the other 100 groups across the server. Also you must check Wow forums ppl not whine about gank or unbalanced things, they simply discuss all the matters like any mature community should do. We have to learn sooo much from games like wow don't think I've even played an MMO without nonconsenual PvP. Whole thing seems a bit silly really (I mean it's like, playing a game but not actually playing it) - Contagious -
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Slave 2739FKZ on 09/08/2009 17:13:00 Op, long time no see, just resubbed? Quit again plz.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Rawr Cristina don't think I've even played an MMO without nonconsenual PvP. Whole thing seems a bit silly really (I mean it's like, playing a game but not actually playing it) Online play in FPS is consensual pvp, with an even playing field. That is why they are really fun, they conform to the definition of what a game is. They're not that massive yet due to technical limitations. But take Planetside for example, most people who played it found it extremely fun, if only for a few months.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:20:00 - [17] Originally by: EpicFailTroll Online play in FPS is consensual pvp, with an even playing field. You mean just like EVE? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Blastrodamus	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:21:00 - [18] non-consensual pvp is like non-consensual sex, it's only good for the person initiating it.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:29:00 - [19] There were rumours bound that things were due for change. People lobbied their own view points, hoping to be noticed. Things fell silent as the last hammer fell. Some people were disgruntled, others cheered on as the changes came through, one by one. The world everyone knew was changing, things no longer related to the ways of the old and oft accepted consensus of how things should be done. Some were scared, trying to run away or ignore the signs, which often led to many an unexpected "Oh" moment. The ignorant pleaded malice to the omnipresent gods of the land, hoping to have things restored to the way of the "norm". One by one, the ignorant either left willingly or were forced out by the wave known as change... Fakeedit: Ohwait this isnt the random post thread? Crap. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:33:00 - [20] Quote: While it may be enjoyable for the dealing end of the process, it's mostly infuriating for the receiving end. Wait, what? You need to reevaluate your priorities if you get ****ed off when you lose an internet spaceship.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:37:00 - [21] Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 09/08/2009 17:38:11 Originally by: Kahega Amielden Wait, what? You need to reevaluate your priorities if you get ****ed off when you lose an internet spaceship. Valuable time lost acquiring the ship and modules. People have every right to be angry, especially if they've been ganked, and have no way to get even (disposable alts, dock forever, meaningless negsec status on ganker, etc) You also cannot ask people to stay level-headed when your get your kicks precisely from their emorage. It's self-defeating. Think again.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:47:00 - [22] I was going to post something witty and insightful about the nature of the game and why PvP should be allowed to continue, and so on and so forth, ad naseum. Then I found the bag of pretzels I had been looking for, decided I didn't care, and went back to grinding up rocks. Stupid troll is stupid. And lame. --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:49:00 - [23] Good troll. So good in fact, I didn't get it. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:49:00 - [24] Originally by: EpicFailTroll People have every right to be angry No they don't. Ships are meant to explode. If they don't the game ceases to function. The reason people emorage is because they fail to see this fundamental fact about how the game works. If they can't stand the thought of losing what they've spent "valuable time acquiring," they have two options: don't spend the time, or don't make the time spent so valuable. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.09 17:52:00 - [25] Originally by: EpicFailTroll Also, alts: biggest problem in EvE. Pretty much the only part I agree with.
Lee Dalton Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.08.09 18:04:00 - [26] Schadenfreude. *** You're only as good as your last fight.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.08.09 18:21:00 - [27] Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 09/08/2009 18:23:33 Originally by: Tippia Ships are meant to explode. If they don't the game ceases to function. The reason people emorage is because they fail to see this fundamental fact about how the game works. If they can't stand the thought of losing what they've spent "valuable time acquiring," they have two options: don't spend the time, or don't make the time spent so valuable. I advise you to read up the definition of what a game is. Yes, ships are meant to explode, that not what EFT is discussing, but the fact that non-consensual pvp is dumb, since you spend a lot of time preparing for what they expect to be "acceptable somewhat unbalanced yet foreseeable engagements". People have every right to be angry when they get ganked at a gatecamp, gang war dec griefed, or the umpteenth variations discovered by griefers. Then, they either unsubscribe or go back to highsec, leaving you to play tough guy on the forums. Game = fun Getting ganked = not fun Ganking = not fun, but Schadenfreude, revelling in others' misery. Does not compute with the general idea of 'fun'. In b4 absolute relativists.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.09 18:30:00 - [28] Originally by: EpicFailTroll Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 09/08/2009 18:23:33 Originally by: Tippia Ships are meant to explode. If they don't the game ceases to function. The reason people emorage is because they fail to see this fundamental fact about how the game works. If they can't stand the thought of losing what they've spent "valuable time acquiring," they have two options: don't spend the time, or don't make the time spent so valuable. I advise you to read up the definition of what a game is. Yes, ships are meant to explode, that not what EFT is discussing, but the fact that non-consensual pvp is dumb, since you spend a lot of time preparing for what they expect to be "acceptable somewhat unbalanced yet foreseeable engagements". People have every right to be angry when they get ganked at a gatecamp, gang war dec griefed, or the umpteenth variations discovered by griefers. Then, they either unsubscribe or go back to highsec, leaving you to play tough guy on the forums. Game = fun Getting ganked = not fun Ganking = not fun, but Schadenfreude, revelling in others' misery. Does not compute with the general idea of 'fun'. In b4 absolute relativists. Who said you get to dictate what i find fun and what i do not find fun? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
ShadowGod56	Posted - 2009.08.09 18:37:00 - [29] Originally by: EpicFailTroll Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 09/08/2009 18:23:33 Game = fun Getting ganked = not fun Ganking = not fun, but Schadenfreude, revelling in others' misery. Does not compute with the general idea of 'fun'. In b4 absolute relativists. confirming i am a sociopath and i enjoy killing people (ingame)
Sir Muffoon Debitum Naturae	Posted - 2009.08.09 18:39:00 - [30] Originally by: EpicFailTroll I advise you to read up the definition of what a game is. Yes, ships are meant to explode, that not what EFT is discussing, but the fact that non-consensual pvp is dumb, since you spend a lot of time preparing for what they expect to be "acceptable somewhat unbalanced yet foreseeable engagements". People have every right to be angry when they get ganked at a gatecamp, gang war dec griefed, or the umpteenth variations discovered by griefers. Then, they either unsubscribe or go back to highsec, leaving you to play tough guy on the forums. Game = fun Getting ganked = not fun Ganking = not fun, but Schadenfreude, revelling in others' misery. Does not compute with the general idea of 'fun'. In b4 absolute relativists. Kudos on getting people to reply seriously to your trolls, even when you're name is so blindingly obvious.

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