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Gen JebStuart	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:37:00 - [1] Being a new player I am training up for a Minmatar bs. I figure I am still a ways off for this but I would like to start planning for my purchase of my first bs. Is one better then the other or is the Maelstorm the best for lvl 4 missions? Any comments would be welcome. Thanks in advance
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:40:00 - [2] Stop now, before it's too late. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Gen JebStuart	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Stop now, before it's too late. Why do you say that?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Gen JebStuart Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Stop now, before it's too late. Why do you say that? The typhoon is good for pvp, the rest of them suck at everything. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:42:00 - [5] At this point, and in all honesty as a Minmatar pilot.. Train Amarr or Gallente. Especially if you plan to do Level 4 missions down the road (Paladin and Kronos are top of the line Marauders). In the meantime, the Maelstrom is probably the best for mission running. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Gen JebStuart Being a new player I am training up for a Minmatar bs......... Wherever you went - Here you are.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Orakkus At this point, and in all honesty as a Minmatar pilot.. Train Amarr or Gallente. Especially if you plan to do Level 4 missions down the road (Paladin and Kronos are top of the line Marauders). In the meantime, the Maelstrom is probably the best for mission running. I think you meant dominix or golem, the kronos is terrible. If you plan to go as far as caps/marauders the vargur is actually good, although only against angels, and the niddy and nag are good. They're also the best looking caps imo. The problem is while you're training there, you have to deal with their craptastic bs. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Gen JebStuart Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Stop now, before it's too late. Why do you say that? The typhoon is good for pvp, the rest of them suck at everything. I agree that the Phoon is good for pvp and the Tempest is pretty sucky but you are wrong on the Maelstrom for pve. I'm not a big time mission runner but having tried a Maelstrom out when the rest of the corp where afk I was seriously impressed at how fast it does Minmatar missions. You need to understand how artllery works to get good results but for isk per hour the Maelstrom is very solid with good skills.
gordon cain Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega The problem is while you're training there, you have to deal with their craptastic bs. this just showes how little you actually know about minni bs. just stop posting please Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Yakov Draken I agree that the Phoon is good for pvp and the Tempest is pretty sucky but you are wrong on the Maelstrom for pve. I'm not a big time mission runner but having tried a Maelstrom out when the rest of the corp where afk I was seriously impressed at how fast it does Minmatar missions. You need to understand how artllery works to get good results but for isk per hour the Maelstrom is very solid with good skills. Yeah, Mael's probably the best mission runner for Minmatar... but I wouldn't say it's great compared to the other race's battleships.

Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:04:00 - [11] Originally by: gordon cain this just showes how little you actually know about minni bs. just stop posting please And just which BS do you say is fantastic? I've got ~40M SP and can't fly the phoon well enough to be better than a Geddon with 15-20M SP. The Maelstrom? Eeeeh, it's passable I guess. I don't like it because it tries to shove active tanking down your throat and handles like a whale. The Tempest? Don't make me laugh. Or cry. :-/
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:06:00 - [12] Originally by: gordon cain Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega The problem is while you're training there, you have to deal with their craptastic bs. this just showes how little you actually know about minni bs. just stop posting please And who are you exactly? Minmatar have the worst battleships, end of story. Don't believe me? Check the devblog (id:666) on battleship sales figures over the past few years. Add in some DPS and EHP figures, and we'll have a real party over here.
gordon cain Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Kismo Originally by: gordon cain this just showes how little you actually know about minni bs. just stop posting please And just which BS do you say is fantastic? I've got ~40M SP and can't fly the phoon well enough to be better than a Geddon with 15-20M SP. just because you suck at flying a ship with your 40mill sp doesnt mean everyone does and when it comes to the maelstrom its one of the best pvp ships in the game Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:08:00 - [14] Minmatar BS's are fine, it's Large Artillery that suck. Stick to Autocannons and you'll be golden. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:09:00 - [15] Originally by: gordon cain just because you suck at flying a ship with your 40mill sp doesnt mean everyone does and when it comes to the maelstrom its one of the best pvp ships in the game Didn't say anything about the "motion in the ocean" - it's strictly by the numbers. The Phoon simply requires more SP than I have to have to surpass a typical Geddon pilot. It requires specialization in many different areas, and you simply can't pull it off without having a really high SP character.
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Benco97 Minmatar BS's are fine, it's Large Artillery that suck. Stick to Autocannons and you'll be golden. Autocannons are rather horrendous too. The laser mael outdamages the AC mael past 11km... on a projectile ROF bonused ship. Oh and lol @ mael being one of the best PvP ships. Maybe for station games, but then we can call the Moros pwnsauce too.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:13:00 - [17] Originally by: gordon cain Originally by: Kismo Originally by: gordon cain this just showes how little you actually know about minni bs. just stop posting please And just which BS do you say is fantastic? I've got ~40M SP and can't fly the phoon well enough to be better than a Geddon with 15-20M SP. just because you suck at flying a ship with your 40mill sp doesnt mean everyone does and when it comes to the maelstrom its one of the best pvp ships in the game 0/10 troll harder Originally by: Benco97 Minmatar BS's are fine, it's Large Artillery that suck. Stick to Autocannons and you'll be golden. Large autocannons aren't as broken as artillery, but they're still pretty crappy compared to lasers and missiles. The maelstrom is decent, but only on angel missions. It's kind of sad that even against the faction it's designed to kill a raven or domi will easily outperform it. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:17:00 - [18] Typhoon is good for PVP.. after you get 30+mil SP. You have to really train up three seperate weapon systems (Drones, Missiles, Projectiles), as well as some utility skills (Energy Emission, Large Armor Repping) to make this ship viable for PVP. It does however get you prepped for the Naglfar which has the same style configuration. Tempest is currently either second to last or last battleship in comparison to all other battleships. This ship should be a brawler, but it has so many faults to it (and there are currently no less than three or four active threads espousing to CCP about the problems with Tempests) that it should be avoided, even though it is sexy! Maelstrom is a simple battleship that is good for mission running. Its easy to fit, easy to figure out, and isn't bad for small gang PVP. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Ecky X	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:22:00 - [19] When I hit 50mil SP, I had Minmatar dread and carrier at 4, with all BS support skills reasonably maxed. I'm now at 54mil SP and training lasers and Amarr BS. Already Amarr BS perform as well for me in some areas as my Minmatar ships, though I'm not going to retire the Typhoon for a while.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:47:00 - [20] Obvious "minmatar BS sucks" troll dedtected Minmatar BS is not too good atm because of their weapons, tho imo some of them perform well with good skills.

AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:55:00 - [21] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 10/08/2009 21:55:21 Originally by: Lindsay Logan Obvious "minmatar BS sucks" troll dedtected Minmatar BS is not too good atm because of their weapons, tho imo some of them perform well with good skills. Considering the OP was referencing missions, I doubt it. Have you been in the brutor corp chat before? Every time I'm there I get into an argument with the other players because they seem to think the mael is a better mission runner than the CNR. At the end of the arguments I either end up with a few keyboard letters stuck to my forehead or wonder why natural selection spares so many.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.10 22:08:00 - [22] Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 10/08/2009 21:55:21 Originally by: Lindsay Logan Obvious "minmatar BS sucks" troll dedtected Minmatar BS is not too good atm because of their weapons, tho imo some of them perform well with good skills. Considering the OP was referencing missions, I doubt it. Have you been in the brutor corp chat before? Every time I'm there I get into an argument with the other players because they seem to think the mael is a better mission runner than the CNR. At the end of the arguments I either end up with a few keyboard letters stuck to my forehead or wonder why natural selection spares so many. When I first started eve, I held hope that the infamous learning cliff would keep the general population relatively intelligent. Boy was I disappointed. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Lili Lu Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.08.10 22:53:00 - [23] Ok, it's like this. You have to know the rats in each mission. A raven or a Domi are the best all purpose level 4 BSs (not Marauder, not faction). They can tailor the damage to the rat quite easily, and both can sport a tank more or less up to the task. In general Angels and Guristas you shield tank, Blood and Sansha you armor tank. Slight advantage to Domi in tanking adaptability, slight advantage to Raven for dealing damage and not worrying about losing expensive drones to mismanaged aggro. Serps are sorta either/or. For em weak rats a laser boat, i.e. Amarr BS is your best bet. For kinetic weak rats rail-gun BSs are ok. So where does this leave Minmatar BSs. Well the Mael can tank explo and kinetic damage quite handily. Guristas like to maintain range which Arty can deal with fairly well, and Angels tend to get close so you go autocannons against them. For the other rats a phoon can be set up with a decent armor tank and still deal em or thermal damage back at the rats. Long-story short Minmatar ships are not as time efficient. However, I love missioning in a Phoon. If you are real concerned with the "best" efficincy in missions a Raven or a Domi is probably the way to go. If you want to stay true to Minmatar, have some fun, and hope and wait that projectiles are the next weapon system to recieve a buff. Get a Mael and a Phoon. Avoid the Tempest unless the ship itself is fixed in some way. There are other threads on that.
Yonos GK inc.	Posted - 2009.08.10 23:09:00 - [24] caldari is easy mode. minmatar is hard mode. If dont think you will be playing this game looooooong term then do anything but minmatar. Amarr is pretty good atm. golem is best marauder :P
gordon cain Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2009.08.10 23:29:00 - [25] Edited by: gordon cain on 10/08/2009 23:30:45 Originally by: AstroPhobic or wonder why natural selection spares so many. yeah i wonder about that myself everytime i read one of your posts tbh. i will however agree that for pve none of the minmatar bs can compete with the other races, but to say they are not good for pvp showes how little u actually know Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.10 23:38:00 - [26] I hope this isn¦t a troll and I wasting a lot of time typing this down here. I have flown any turret BS(-rohk) in L4 missions and the Maelstrom is the right choice to pick for minmatar(if you don¦t have the max Phoon skills). Does the Mael deal less damage than gallente/amarr gunships? Simple awnser is "Yes!", but since you can change the damage type you are on par with the Mega(+variants) and with a Abaddon in a scenario it faces high EM resists. Plus points of the Mael are a good tank(by a large margine), while gank fitted(what you won¦t have in a Mega or Abaddon), a easy handling of the cap and quite easy to fitting compared to the Mega. My Mael fit looked like this(gave it to a corpmate some time ago as a gift): [Maelstrom, PVE] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Ogre II x3 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 This fitting can actualy match the perfomance of my Kronos most of the time, while tanking better. The only drawback is, that it loses out at long range(60km+) because it lacks sentrys but it is still quite a nice ship. You also can use a large booster T2 with a extra Amp, but you will need a cap mod instead of the tracking comp for it(if you are lazy and not max skilled). T2 shield tank is more or less a must have, T1 guns are ok for the beginning but T2 will give you a big improvement. You might be wondering about the tons of tracking mods this fit has, but trust me you will need them to make it effective(simlar to a Mega) and able to put your ok EFT DPS on the traget. The AB and get your ship in a good position fitting/playstyle is simply inferior to it, since it wasts to mutch time and is not realy practical in some L4 missions. It performs very simlar to a good fitted Mega in PVE and this isn¦t to bad in my personal opinon. Also from someone that used a Domi for over a year in PVE, it is overrated. It lacks tracking if fitted with guns and it lacks gank without them. Cruise Raven is simlar a very overhyped ship, it is very solid and reqire not this mutch SP but it can¦t match the DPS of a well fitted and flown turretship(Torp CNR and Golem are a diffrent story, but this is another topic). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.10 23:39:00 - [27] Originally by: gordon cain Edited by: gordon cain on 10/08/2009 23:30:45 Originally by: AstroPhobic or wonder why natural selection spares so many. yeah i wonder about that myself everytime i read one of your posts tbh. i will however agree that for pve none of the minmatar bs can compete with the other races, but to say they are not good for pvp showes how little u actually know I'd like to see your setups. Wait, no, they're secret aren't they. It's always the same story.
Bomberlocks	Posted - 2009.08.10 23:43:00 - [28] I'm a Minmatar pilot with currently just under 14 million sp, but they're all over the place so not very indicative of great skill at anything. I have an alt that flies Gallente and while the Dominix is truly a massive tanking ship, I much prefer actually flying the Minmatar BSes even though they are not easy and require skill (and duct-tape?) to fly well. I solo all my level 4 missions in either a typhoon or a maelstrom. The maelstrom is truly impressive in the amount of damage it unleashes and can generally wade through any mission with ease and it has a huge tank and can also be passively tanked if you're worried about your cap running out. With an EM-Shield rig it has no major weaknesses apart from the reliance on cap boosters that active shield tankers have. That said, I do the major part of the missions in the typhoon, simply because the thing is so schizophrenic with its split weapons that it truly is fun to fly, long range (cruise missiles, large Arties and a drone link augmenter) or short range (large ACs, torps) or even a mix (ACs and cruise), and its drone bay is smaller only than a Dominix'or ishtar's bay, both specialised drone ships. There are even people who passive shield tank the typhoon. This ship, along with rifters, thrashers, ruptures and hurricanes are part of what make Minmatar t1 ships so much fun. They might not be the best ships in the eve universe, but they're solid. The people who have said that the tempest is a poor ship are sadly right. While it's very flexible (shield or armor tank - I generally use it armor tanked), it just doesn't have the effective tank of either the typhoon or the maelstrom to be as useful. That said, I've solo'd a good few missions in a semi-cap stable armor-tanked Tempest with ACs, cruise missiles and an AB on it and as long as you don't get webbed for too long it works very well.
Aemilus Brutus	Posted - 2009.08.11 00:40:00 - [29] As with most things in Eve the answer depends on your situation. Just to give you some idea of where I'm coming from.... I love flying battleships, in about two weeks I'll have all my battleship skills at 5. I have flown a Raven, Apoc, Abaddon, Hyperion, and Maelstorm solo in many different types of lvl 4 missions. 1. Are you running missions for fun, or is it to earn isk for other activities such as PvP? If for fun, go with the ship you most enjoy flying... The Maelstorm isn't a bad choice from that stand point. I find it on par with the Hyperion for mission running. Not the best/easiest ship but not bad. 2. Are your tanking skills shield or armor focused? Can you use tech 2 guns? If you have a good shield tank, training for a Raven if the Maelstorm doesn't work out would not be hard at all. Good armor tank and Amarr and Gallente are good way to go. Tech 2 weapons make things easier but aren't required for someone just starting lvl 4s. Give me a little more info on what you're looking to do I can give you better feedback.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.08.11 00:47:00 - [30] The maelstrom, panther and typhoon are very good while the tempest, machariel, fleet tempest and vargur are absolutely awful.



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