There's no such thing as PvE in EvE Online, everything you in this game is a form of PvP competition.

EVE is a PVP game, not Minecraft single player on easy mode in space. The PVP should, and always will, take priority with the PVE content being supplemental. And lets face it, if you play EVE solely for its PVE content then you really should go find another game to play, because PVE in EVE has always been a bit sucky. I should also say that I am a Carebear who has in the past been a pvp'er and is now trying to get back in to it, mostly because I realised that PVE is a waste of -ú10 a month.

I rather enjoy the PVE aspect as do my friends so for me it isn't a waste of money. Telling someone they should go to another game is really stupid. I have played for years and find it enjoyable. How does the existence of PVE content hurt the PVP content by the way?

What you're likely to see is more cooperative pve all down the line, from hisec down to null. Incursions are actually a great feature besides the fact that they spewed out far too much isk in hisec compared to basically every other isk-generating activity. You will likely see more activities like incursions, but with a better balance of risk and reward across the security sectors.

What you are unlikely to see is any effort at all being spent on more solo pve content like lvl 4s. If you just want to run missions by yourself in your pimp golem, you're still going to just be saving the damsel in distress for the 10000th time.

The PvE aspect of this game is utterly horrible.

Judging from your attitude toward the PVP'ers, it seems clear that you consider PVE to be on an equal footing with PVP content, which is not the case. As I said, PVE is a supporting member of the EVE universe, and while CCP will give little buffs here and there, and tries to maintain a minimum of content, it will never ever get the same treatment as combat oriented PVP. This will eventually lead you to become disillusioned with the game, so to save yourself the tears and stress I suggested looking for another game.

You also seemed to completely miss the bit where I said I am a Carebear myself, and after years fo doing it I realised that it was never going to be any better than it currently is, and that I was bored out of my mind, so now I am going to start switching back to doing the thing this game is built for. I'm going to re-learn how to kill people.

PVE is my money maker. I make isk to PVP. I would very much like it if CCP went and re-imagined the PVE part of the game. At the moment for me it's just a dull grind for isk/sec status, nothing more. If they added an element of variation and unpredictability it'd be a lot more bearable and hopefully fun. Please make PVE fun CCP, it gets a bit repetitive once youve ran missions/sites a few dozen times...

Also it has been said that they are reducing and/or eliminating 'gun mining' so that the minerals gained from missioning will be greatly reduced or removed and I don't know if that is true or just forum gossip.

stopped reading here.

they already did and you didn't notice.

Ya, it is utterly horrible. As long as they maintain risk/reward balances, everybody wins from better pve. Better pve means more people logged in and in space. The more people logged in and in space, the better the game for everyone.

Creating interesting, dynamic, and balanced pve is by far one of the best ways ccp could spend resources to improve eve as a whole, if not the actual best.

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

people would be furious that their efficiency at grinding went way down (due to increased variation) and they now have to spend more time on an activity that is still unfun to them.

WoW players asked extremely vocally for more challenging and interesting dungeons - and when they got dungeons that couldn't be completed in 20 minutes and required some basic tactics & cooperation they punished Blizzard harshly for it.

EVE is a PVP game, not Minecraft single player on easy mode in space. The PVP should, and always will, take priority with the PVE content being supplemental. And lets face it, if you play EVE solely for its PVE content then you really should go find another game to play, because PVE in EVE has always been a bit sucky. I should also say that I am a Carebear who has in the past been a pvp'er and is now trying to get back in to it, mostly because I realised that PVE is a waste of -ú10 a month.

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

people would be furious that their efficiency at grinding went way down (due to increased variation) and they now have to spend more time on an activity that is still unfun to them.

WoW players asked extremely vocally for more challenging and interesting dungeons - and when they got dungeons that couldn't be completed in 20 minutes and required some basic tactics & cooperation they punished Blizzard harshly for it.

It's understandable that bad players were unhappy but why did even the hardcore players cry for nerfs?
because a dungeon (as opposed to raiding) is a means to gear up for the "real" game (raiding) and as such a chore that people want to get done with asap.

The same holds true for PvE in EVE for the type of person Aruken describes - a chore will always remain a chore no matter how you dress it up and the game developer making you less efficient at getting done with it only pisses you off.

edit: and this ISN"T a PvP game. This is a sandbox. It is designed to let people decide for themselves what they want to do inside the box. CCP has been moving farther and farther away from the true sandbox aspect and listened too much to what the CSM says. That is why you see a constant push for people to PvP and why CCP is moving the entire game in that direction, and has been for some time.

EVE is a PVP game, not Minecraft single player on easy mode in space. The PVP should, and always will, take priority with the PVE content being supplemental. And lets face it, if you play EVE solely for its PVE content then you really should go find another game to play, because PVE in EVE has always been a bit sucky. I should also say that I am a Carebear who has in the past been a pvp'er and is now trying to get back in to it, mostly because I realised that PVE is a waste of -ú10 a month.

The PvE aspect of this game is utterly horrible.

It could encourage more people to play together and possibly against each other, which is what EVE is and always should be about. There's a lot of potential to flesh out the backstory here with a system like that. CCP is sitting on a wealth of backstory that isn't represented too well, if at all, in the game.

Basically the future for PvE is bleak. Why? The CSM is controlled by the PvP players that have been pushing their own agenda for years. They don't like having to leave the security of their Sov to rat or run missions so they ***** and moan to get more and more taken from high and put into null sec.

There in lies the biggest problem though. There is supposed to be a risk vs reward system in place. You risk being attacked at any moment in low/null sec so your reward should be high, right? Well in my experience the Sov space of alliances is MUCH safer than high sec. You run little to no risk of being killed by another player. If for some reason you do have someone that isn't friendly pop into your system you knew he was coming 10 minutes before from intel channels.

Most people will try to say that it takes a lot of effort to keep a sov system safe, but that is incorrect. It takes a lot of people in an alliance to keep Sov safe. If you have numbers, and can field a fleet you will rarely if ever find yourself needing to do so to defend your space.


The risk needs put back into Null to justify the rewards, i.e. remove local from null and leave it in low/high. Remove gate fire so you can't see when someone pops into your gate camps, etc, etc. That would be a step in the right direction.




edit: and this ISN"T a PvP game. This is a sandbox. It is designed to let people decide for themselves what they want to do inside the box. CCP has been moving farther and farther away from the true sandbox aspect and listened too much to what the CSM says. That is why you see a constant push for people to PvP and why CCP is moving the entire game in that direction, and has been for some time.

There's no such thing as PvE in EvE Online, everything you in this game is a form of PvP competition.

yeh,yeh we've heard it before blah blah blah, everythings PVP so there. This argument is technically correct

...which is the best kind of correct

CCP like to talk out of both sides of their mouth. We seem to be forgetting they just nerfed the only fleet based PvE in the game because too many people were doing it. (Incursions)

I really would hate to be a Dev for this game. I don't envy them. It's the only game on the entire internet that is designed to not be played. The more we do it, the more they nerf it.

I think the issue was with the whole skewed risk vs reward thing. The fact that people were running hisec alts for incursions to earn isk for pvp out in null was a bit of an issue. Nothing wrong with incursions its just their payout was way too high for hisec when compared to the income out in null.

No idea where you got your knowledge about nullsec and sov gameplay but I must say, I have never heard such a complete load of utter stupidity in all my time in Eve.

First of all I would like to point out that there is no PVE in Eve. At least there is no PVE that doesn't involve PVP. Everything you do will to some degree be affected by other players. Those who do not understand this tend to receive a rather unpleasant surprise from time to time, be it a nasty suicide gank, a war dec, scam, or some form of harassment. And that is exactly what makes Eve so unique. No instanced content. Just a single shard, sandbox.

About 95% of my time in Eve is spent on exploration. I'm not a role playing type of person but I have since childhood had a fascination with space. That's the reason why I play Eve. I don't really care for playing with others, but one of the main reasons why I play Eve is the constant threatening presence of people. It gives New Eden a faint, dark & dystopian pulse. Something you can't get from NPCs. It needs real human beings and all their potential evil.

Now, the main issue with PVE for me is reward. I don't really care that much about isk, or finding some rare spawn that will reward me with even more isk. I want PVE to reward me with story and lore. And in this regard Eve has a lot of room for improvement. Obviously, there's a lot of people who don't care about story & lore and just want to pew or mine or whatever. That's good for them and so story should not be forced on them. Those who do have interest in the story on the other hand, should be rewarded with it through PVE which as far as I'm concerned is mainly exploration. Agent missions have too much in common with tripe like WoW fetch quests and the like. This doesn't fit in the Eve universe.

You could argue that story & lore in Eve comes from the player driven politics. But let us be honest here. I do not care for the antics of autistic neckbeards with attention issues who have too much time on their hands. And I doubt that anyone outside of a select few cares about what happens in the political side of null. But that doesn't mean that story & lore cannot be in some way player drive. Eve has fanfiction featured on their website. Why not find a way to incorporate parts of those stories & shorts into the game itself? When I run into some rare NPC and kill it, I want to find documents, secrets, history, etc.

The story of Eve has so far evolved extremely slowly. Despite the good books that have been written, little to no lore & story advancement has took place within the game itself. Apocrpypha was a step in the right direction, but was rather underwhelming in my opinion. Sleeper sites had too much in common with L4 missions and gave very little background information, history, lore and so on.

TL/DR: let PVE rewards focus with more on story & lore and less on fetch style wow quests and isk farming

if you want people to get involved into PVP more, first get them involved with other people.

Make Missions so ungodly hard for the same level of reward, (sans maybe L1 and L2) that people have no choice but to gang together and socialize, therefor increasing the likelyhood they will see PVP rather than sitting in an NPC corp or farming millions in L4's solo.

...so that they can enjoy the real fun of the game. The sooner people realise that, the better.

PvE in EVE is nothing more than a scantily clad ISK faucet. It's sole purpose is to provide players with money to fund their PvP exploits. That's why it is repetitive and progression in it is simple. You go from level 1's to either 4's or 5's, from there to Wormholes and Sleepers and then in to PvP Combat. Making PvE anything other than the way it is would be a disaster.

Why do you think websites like EVE-Survival exist? Because people for the most part don't want to spend hours and hours everyday being forced to guess their way through ****** missions to earn the ISK to buy the ships and ammo so that they can go kill real people. They want it over and done with as quickly as possible so that they can enjoy the real fun of the game. The sooner people realise that, the better.

I rather enjoy the PVE aspect as do my friends so for me it isn't a waste of money. Telling someone they should go to another game is really stupid. I have played for years and find it enjoyable. How does the existence of PVE content hurt the PVP content by the way?

They removed drone alloys, that is a pretty big chunk of gun mining gone right there. That said I wouldn't mind seeing a slight overhaul on the missions aswell, and have for a long time been in favor of introducing sleeper ai into missions. Don't need any bigger reward, just want a greater challenge.

Take away Mission names, redo the entire set of missions so that its a randomly generated field/complex/grid with 1-5 gates, even race of enemies are randomized, the Lvl will determine the size and frequency of evil peeps.

Make Missions so ungodly hard for the same level of reward, (sans maybe L1 and L2) that people have no choice but to gang together and socialize, therefor increasing the likelyhood they will see PVP rather than sitting in an NPC corp or farming millions in L4's solo.

very least all missiosn NEED to stop payign out bounties.

raise the lp one gets from missiosn and sell your faction items from the lp store to other players.

imo best way would to make ALL high sec missions be anti faction
bounties belong in low sec and null sec onl, including secruity gains..

dont liek it stfu

Again you are forcing a subjective view upon others. You clearly don't like the PVE aspect of the game and that is fine, you don't need to like it. Others do and want to have it made even more enjoyable or at least know the direction CCP plans to take it. If it is going to be dumbed down further to make it merely a stepping stone into PVP so be it, just let us know so we can make an informed decision as to continue playing or not. A blue response would sure go a long way towards this.

And you, quite clearly, do not know how to read. The fact that PVE in EVE is nothing more than a glorified ISK faucet is not a subjective view, it is a plain and simple fact. The reason for its existence is as I stated, and not a subjective view point. Those two facts combined mean that PVE in EVE will always come second to PVP, it will always be fairly dull and considered a grind fest by most and is unlikely to ever attain the level of complexity that you appear to desire.

Missions will almost certainly remain simple and easily completed entirely because of their function in the game, which is to provide a relatively simple way to earn money. If that fact has escaped you for this long then I think you already have your answer.

very least all missiosn NEED to stop payign out bounties.

raise the lp one gets from missiosn and sell your faction items from the lp store to other players.

imo best way would to make ALL high sec missions be anti faction
bounties belong in low sec and null sec onl, including secruity gains..

dont liek it stfu

Why do you think websites like EVE-Survival exist? Because people for the most part don't want to spend hours and hours everyday being forced to guess their way through ****** missions to earn the ISK to buy the ships and ammo so that they can go kill real people. They want it over and done with as quickly as possible so that they can enjoy the real fun of the game. The sooner people realise that, the better.

The PvE aspect of this game is utterly horrible.

Nice post OP, i agree. PVP-ers need to realize that even though eve is a pvp-oriented game there are all sorts of people in the world who like different things.

I don't like "pointless" pvp aka looking for randomers to kill and then troll them in local about how "lolfit" their fit is or how "terribad" they are and how they should go play "hello kitty".

(@PVPers) You are playing this game for adrenaline rush that comes with pvp
Others are playing this game because:
1. It has pretty graphics and spaceships
2. You like the concept of "sandbox", no limit to what you can do(see my point later)
3. You like the feel of your character progressing(flying bigger ships, using better weapons, getting richer, having more SP)
4. People might not have time to grind(like other mmos) so they just log, change skills, log off and get on with their busy life while they are still "investing" something in this game.
5. There isn't a similar game


Now, about point number 2, thats the whole concept of sandbox, you are not limited to just pvp if you don't like it. Sure people will try and ruin your day but thats their choice(way of having fun) and how you deal with it is up to YOU.


In the end, nobody should tell others how to play something that they enjoy playing their own way, especially in a sandbox game that is eve.


Know why I play this ? For chat and relaxation at the end of the day(some chilled beer, good music and shooting npcs helps me relax at the end of the day)
If i wanted a crazy, competitive, fast action then i would probably play a first person shooter or go pvp.

If it was me, I'd shoot for improving ALL aspects of the game, to preserve the existing community and build on it.

Yep, there's no sort of issue getting more and more coding done.

No real scarcity of manpower there ...

Well if they continue to cator only to the goon mentality they will have even less manpower in the future.

Yup. You should graduate from the learning process right into cooperative/competitive pve with varying degrees of risk and reward, allowing you to get a feel for the larger game while still in hisec. Then it's a natural transition from that out into low, null, or whs, if and when you want.

I like this idea. So much in 0.5+ is solo. Encouraging people to socialize is a plus period. ....
In EvE you get the same old solo content that is more than 2 years old and perish the thought of reaching out to fellow capsuleers to meet, socialize, and succeed with.