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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
or it might.
who knows?
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:12:00 -
[32]
We might find WMDs in Iraq, too.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
and vote more times
reproduce and increase sate population
buy some goods and have a influence on jobs
etc etc etc
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:19:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
We might find WMDs in Iraq, too.
good comeback actually
in all honesty, I'm with you in the bit of the people that get healthcare paid from the pockets of the others. I live in a country like that, but the diference is that if you're rich, then you go for private medical care. us poor bastards have to contempt with public healthcare which means not that bad doctors over-worked, "100 patients per day" overworked , which actually scares most people, leaving only the elders on the hospital.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:20:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
Basically this.
No offense intended, but you Europeans learn about this stuff through your Media which no matter how you put it is going to be bias in some way or another due to the difference of circumstance (You being more socialist, us being more Capitalistic).
This healthcare reform crap is trying to inject Socialist methods into a Capitalistic Society. You guys assume that all those who would get that welfare and free healthcare are going to be very thankful for it, when in reality the majority are going to take it for granted and abuse it, it's like that with our Welfare system today, with parents having 5 or 6 kids and getting money for each of them, hell they swing it around. They claim welfare for the first 3 of their kids for 5 years, then their next 3 kids for the next 5 years (Welfare under normal circumstances has a 5 year limit, at least here in Vegas, when you add kids into the equation, Welfare mom's like to begin claiming on their kids at different times, re-starting the 'timer' so to speak).
If you guys lived under the same conditions as Possum and I, I do believe your minds would change very quickly, when you see 8 different families move into that Section 8 housing across the street in 5 years. All with at least 5 kids, all putting spinners on their rusted out El Camino's instead of feeding their kids and giving them a Bicycle to go play.
Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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MaxxOmega
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:24:00 -
[36]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 17:25:27
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 15/08/2009 17:03:52
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Originally by: Kurfin
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Your final point is crap and you know it. "Free" healthcare will cause the same amount of inflation.
The state should be able to provide the same service for less money as there would be no advertising expenditure or dividends to share holders. And since the state scheme would probably be larger than any existing health insurance provider it would be in a better position to negotiate with the suppliers to secure the heathcare for less too.
One problem I can see as a possibility is that the state would have to use private doctors to deliver their state provided health care. So the state would have to do what we do here in Canada. We have fee limits and a doctor can only charge x amount of dollars for a service and can't go above that. But then waht happens is that the crummy governments in an attempt to save money, they start to de-list dservices that they paid for in the past. So now, you have a system that is mostly government but partially private. Then people all freak out because "we used to get that for free before", waa, waa, waa. And the doctors get ****ed off because they see their ability to charge what they want has now been stopped...
or probably state-employed doctors? still, that one also opens another can of worms, that can go either if they get paid below average, in wich case, you can see a drop in quality and quantity, or above average, where you all of the sudden see like half of your country's students wanting to become a well-paid, in a relatively stable work as a state doctor.
Yeah, assuming of course the money is good enough to attract doctors to work for the state. Here in Canada, we just go to a regular doctor in a practise and the government pays for the care. There are some out of pocket exceptions for example to get a PSA test for detecting Prostate Cancer cost me $25 bucks out of my pocket at the visit...
Worth it I guess to see if my nutz are gonna swell up and explode...
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:25:00 -
[37]
In terms of reducing costs there is more than just the doctors that can be squeezed. Hospitals and pharmaceutical companies would be the prime targets for rate negotiation. For example a previous posted pointed out pharmaceuticals can cost 5 times more in the us than canada, a government scheme would be large enough to negotiate a huge discount with the pharmaceutical companies or buy in supplies from abroad for the hospitals to use for government scheme patients.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
Basically this.
No offense intended, but you Europeans learn about this stuff through your Media which no matter how you put it is going to be bias in some way or another due to the difference of circumstance (You being more socialist, us being more Capitalistic).
This healthcare reform crap is trying to inject Socialist methods into a Capitalistic Society. You guys assume that all those who would get that welfare and free healthcare are going to be very thankful for it, when in reality the majority are going to take it for granted and abuse it, it's like that with our Welfare system today, with parents having 5 or 6 kids and getting money for each of them, hell they swing it around. They claim welfare for the first 3 of their kids for 5 years, then their next 3 kids for the next 5 years (Welfare under normal circumstances has a 5 year limit, at least here in Vegas, when you add kids into the equation, Welfare mom's like to begin claiming on their kids at different times, re-starting the 'timer' so to speak).
If you guys lived under the same conditions as Possum and I, I do believe your minds would change very quickly, when you see 8 different families move into that Section 8 housing across the street in 5 years. All with at least 5 kids, all putting spinners on their rusted out El Camino's instead of feeding their kids and giving them a Bicycle to go play.
and that's what I'm trying to convey
the problem is not the plan, but the people
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
MaxxOmega
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:29:00 -
[39]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 17:31:09
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 17:29:35
Originally by: Kurfin
In terms of reducing costs there is more than just the doctors that can be squeezed. Hospitals and pharmaceutical companies would be the prime targets for rate negotiation. For example a previous posted pointed out pharmaceuticals can cost 5 times more in the us than canada, a government scheme would be large enough to negotiate a huge discount with the pharmaceutical companies or buy in supplies from abroad for the hospitals to use for government scheme patients.
Yeah that was my post and your suggestion is exactly what happens here. The government basically tells the pharma companies what they are gonna sell their drugs for here.
But the companies also get huge tax breaks I believe and infact have manufacturing facilities right here in my city...
I am hoping for the day I can just go up to a drive thru window with a paper bag and yell fill er up...
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 17:01:06
Originally by: Kurfin
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Your final point is crap and you know it. "Free" healthcare will cause the same amount of inflation.
The state should be able to provide the same service for less money as there would be no advertising expenditure or dividends to share holders. And since the state scheme would probably be larger than any existing health insurance provider it would be in a better position to negotiate with the suppliers to secure the heathcare for less too.
One problem I can see as a possibility is that the state would have to use private doctors to deliver their state provided health care. So the state would have to do what we do here in Canada. We have fee limits and a doctor can only charge x amount of dollars for a service and can't go above that. But then what happens is that the crummy governments in an attempt to save money, they start to de-list dservices that they paid for in the past. So now, you have a system that is mostly government but partially private. Then people all freak out because "we used to get that for free before", waa, waa, waa. And the doctors get ****ed off because they see their ability to charge what they want has now been stopped...
Very simple - the doctors work for the health service and rather than charging the government a fee, they draw a salary each month.
If you think that the government won't pay, a friend of mine is a GP/family doctor and a few years after graduating now earns around $180,000 per year.
Also, doctors are still free to work for private hospitals if they want - that's entirely up to them.
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MaxxOmega
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
If you guys lived under the same conditions as Possum and I, I do believe your minds would change very quickly, when you see 8 different families move into that Section 8 housing across the street in 5 years. All with at least 5 kids, all putting spinners on their rusted out El Camino's instead of feeding their kids and giving them a Bicycle to go play.
They should put spinners on the kids and let them drive away...
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
Basically this.
No offense intended, but you Europeans learn about this stuff through your Media which no matter how you put it is going to be bias in some way or another due to the difference of circumstance (You being more socialist, us being more Capitalistic).
This healthcare reform crap is trying to inject Socialist methods into a Capitalistic Society. You guys assume that all those who would get that welfare and free healthcare are going to be very thankful for it, when in reality the majority are going to take it for granted and abuse it, it's like that with our Welfare system today, with parents having 5 or 6 kids and getting money for each of them, hell they swing it around. They claim welfare for the first 3 of their kids for 5 years, then their next 3 kids for the next 5 years (Welfare under normal circumstances has a 5 year limit, at least here in Vegas, when you add kids into the equation, Welfare mom's like to begin claiming on their kids at different times, re-starting the 'timer' so to speak).
If you guys lived under the same conditions as Possum and I, I do believe your minds would change very quickly, when you see 8 different families move into that Section 8 housing across the street in 5 years. All with at least 5 kids, all putting spinners on their rusted out El Camino's instead of feeding their kids and giving them a Bicycle to go play.
Whilst similar, welfare reform is a completely different topic than health care reform.
I agree that welfare needs to be looked at (we too have problems with "welfare mums" in the UK and families that take the ****), but I don't begrudge anyone free health care from my taxes.
I believe that access to health care is a basic human right and whilst I may not agree that a family has more and more kids and lives off the state (and consumes my income tax in their benefits), I'm not going to deny them the basic right to see a doctor when they are sick, regardless of how much money they have or don't have.
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kurfin
In terms of reducing costs there is more than just the doctors that can be squeezed. Hospitals and pharmaceutical companies would be the prime targets for rate negotiation. For example a previous posted pointed out pharmaceuticals can cost 5 times more in the us than canada, a government scheme would be large enough to negotiate a huge discount with the pharmaceutical companies or buy in supplies from abroad for the hospitals to use for government scheme patients.
There's a reason for this. I don't agree with it, but that's up to the drug companies that produce the drugs.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I believe that access to health care is a basic human right and whilst I may not agree that a family has more and more kids and lives off the state (and consumes my income tax in their benefits), I'm not going to deny them the basic right to see a doctor when they are sick, regardless of how much money they have or don't have.
Actually it isn't. It costs a lot of a person's time and money to become a doctor. They should have the right to charge whatever they see fit as recompense for that investment.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:45:00 -
[45]
Basically the mindset is as follows...
Government run healthcare will bring forth even more unneeded bureaucracy and red tape that will actually end up making it more expensive for the common man and woman, and in this it is not "free" because you will be paying for it with your taxes(just the rich cannot hold such a burden as President Obama might tell you).
This on top of a rather lack of reasons behind how they will fund such an undertaking makes people nervous, if we are to have a government healthcare system it is imperative that there must be much consideration to how to pay for it and unpack it into the general public.
Another reason is congress wishes to push this bill through asap, in their minds it is best to at the very least read the bill before it is passed in congress, and possibly given much consideration to how to implement it as we are in a tough economy and if they send the bill through and it lacks ground for funding then it could be catastrophic.
There is also a worry about such a bill turning down people with bad illnesses that might have had survived if they received the proper care, in fact on page 30 I believe of this bill there is a clause to elect a board of electives to study whether the person should receive care or not.
There is also a belief that healthcare is not a right offered by the constitution, and thus should not be provided by with the government.
Another worry is such a bill without fiscal backing will force our congress to borrow even more money and put America into even more debt which will mean more expenditures.
That is my understanding of it anyways.
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Captain Hudson
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:48:00 -
[46]
America's healthcare future lies somewhere between free and paid insurance, perhaps a huge boost in medicare(thats the free one right) would be the best solution?
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:54:00 -
[47]
Movie
Americans are scared of Free Healthcare because it contains some Socialism, yes. But they think Socialism means Communism and that brings me to their good o' Red Scare.
Bunch of ****ers: Get free healthcare.
_____________
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MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I believe that access to health care is a basic human right and whilst I may not agree that a family has more and more kids and lives off the state (and consumes my income tax in their benefits), I'm not going to deny them the basic right to see a doctor when they are sick, regardless of how much money they have or don't have.
But as a Doctor I have the right to refuse treatment to whomever I desire. If I don't want to serve bums, I don't have to and no law will make me, I can always find a reason to turn someone away...
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Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lt Forge
Movie
Americans are scared of Free Healthcare because it contains some Socialism, yes. But they think Socialism means Communism and that brings me to their good o' Red Scare.
Bunch of ****ers: Get free healthcare.
We were having a nice discussion until you chose to spit out stupidity from your mouth. I'm an American and I know socialism does not equal communism, as do the majority of other Americans
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:05:00 -
[50]
Edited by: goodby4u on 15/08/2009 18:06:22
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Lt Forge
Movie
Americans are scared of Free Healthcare because it contains some Socialism, yes. But they think Socialism means Communism and that brings me to their good o' Red Scare.
Bunch of ****ers: Get free healthcare.
I know socialism does not equal communism, as do the majority of other Americans
I agree with the post, just not this last part.
Unfortunately our educational system can use work..... I mean if Americans have trouble naming who our vice president is and what the 3 parts of our government are I highly doubt they know the difference.
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Fux Orgasma
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
Yeah, I guess all of the countries that have socialized healthcare (aka EVERY CIVILIZED country on the planet) have REALLY lazy and FAT people  . I don't see where having TAX PAYER-based health care has ANYTHING to do with "fat and lazy asses". I don't see Japanese people getting "fat and lazy" living in the streets and "living off of your taxes", I don't see people in Sweden getting "fat and lazy" and living in the street and "living off of your taxes".
This is nothing but tired conservative thinking. Just because you don't like to have your taxes go to keeping your fellow countrymen healthy doesn't mean it's wrong. After all, my taxes bailed out all of your "conservative" thinking banks and failed insurance companies, and I didn't like that ONE ****ING BIT. And guess what? It cost WAY MORE to bail those pathetic vampies out than it will cost to run a health care system in the America. Oh, I guess all those bankers weren't living off of the tax payers dime huh because they weren't "fat and lazy and didn't do any work"........oh wai......thats right, they were fat and lazy and didn't do ANY work! People like you assume that if one is out of work then that makes them lazy and fat. And that they shouldn't get a helping hand. Guess what my angry and conservative friend, I have been working for 17 years straight and my job went over to China and I didn't get JACK SQUAT. And I am out of work. I guess that means sense I left the "job market" my rights end huh? I guess that means I don't WANT a job huh? That our society needs to be "darwinistic". I wished all of you hypocrites with your "darwinistic outlook" would actually understand what Darwinism is and why it is NOT the ideal way to run a society.
The real problem with health care is that insurance companies have too much say in what and when we get health care. Health care should no more be purely market-based than our justice system. All of the arguments against socialized medicine fail when brought up to the light of LIVING proof of how other countries health systems do compared to ours and how much more HEALTHY their citizenship is compared to ours. I think every country in Europe has socialized medicine.....I don't see Europeans doing worse than Americans, far from it. I see them as more fit than the average American. Why you ask? Could it be that education and less greed actually makes a society more healthy, and in return more efficient and more prosperous? Show me where a society with bad general health = a more happy and productive society? I am all ears. Because happy people is what we should aim for, not the angry "not in my backyard" low IQ mentality that the majority of conservatives seem to want.
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Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Fux Orgasma
Angry rant
I consider myself a conservative and I was unhappy with my taxes being used to bail out companies that screwed up. I was also unhappy that I was paying my own paycheck while in the military. As for being out of work, there are jobs out there you know, as there are local, state, and federal programs out there to help you get another job. The real issue is are you willing to put them to use, work in a field you never thought you would and possibly take a pay cut or move to somewhere else in the country or are you gonna try to get on welfare?
As for helping others out, I can't help them if they aren't willing to help themselves unless the government forces me to but I guess freedom is ok to sacrifice as long as everyone benefits from it, am i right?
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:36:00 -
[53]
While I personally don't know much about healthcare. The insurance I get for me and my father is increased 3 times a year in cost. One on his birthday, one on mine, and one just because.
________________________________________________
My Music
Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity. |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:38:00 -
[54]
Edited by: ceaon on 15/08/2009 18:38:49
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
as do the majority of other Americans
after so many years of anti communism propaganda i dont bet my money on that
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Fux Orgasma
I don't see Japanese people getting "fat and lazy" living in the streets and "living off of your taxes", I don't see people in Sweden getting "fat and lazy" and living in the street and "living off of your taxes".
Japan is full of Japanese (no mention of how racist Japs are? s'Ok, its not on topic). Sweden is full of Swedes.
America is full of lazy no good whites, blacks, hispanics, etc who were raised to milk the system for everything its worth.. What? This isn't 'fact'?. So mister socialist, why did the welfare system fail so miserable? You gave the poor billions, why are they still poor, malnourished, and badly educated? Oh that's right, its all the fault of the white/jewish elitists I bet... Is that your opinion? If not, what is.
You're right, most of Europe has socialized medicine. They also pay higher taxes. That's less money for the individual to pay for whatever they need/desire, just so that the less deserving can continue to milk off them.
I refuse to get a job just so half my money can go to other people, its bad enough 25-35% of it does now. I would rather sit at home all day and let other people pay half their wage to support me. I'm only American after all.
I snipped the rest of your rant because its nothing but whining.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:47:00 -
[56]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 18:47:48
Originally by: Fux Orgasma
Guess what my angry and conservative friend, I have been working for 17 years straight and my job went over to China and I didn't get JACK SQUAT. And I am out of work. I guess that means sense I left the "job market" my rights end huh?
Please show me where health care is a right...
Quote:
The real problem with health care is that insurance companies have too much say in what and when we get health care.
No the problem is that so many people who believe themselves to be honest become lying s****sucking thieves when it comes to dealing with insurance companies. Just look at the stories where a bus get hit and suddenly there are twice as many claims as there is seats.
I have worked in IT for insurance companies for 30 years. I have seen stories after stories dozens of times where people try to rip off Insurance, continuing to lie even when our private investigator shows video of them water skiing one day after coming into the office in a wheel chair.
When you get an insurance policy, you sign a form that allows the company to get ALL your medical information to see what kinds of health problems you have. We have to do this because the liars drive up the costs for the honest.
Problem examples:
Application says: "My heart is perfectly healthy."
Reality: Person has had 3 heart attacks.
Result: Policy cancelled, premium refunded.
Person's whine "It's not fair, thos guys are crooks"
Application says: "No insurance if injury is gotten in the commission of a crime"
Claim: Person is shot in back.
Reality: Person was shot running away from bank he just robbed.
We used to provide out of country insurance so when you travel you are covered.
Scenario: Old person drives to Florida. Has heart attack.
Action: Policy provides that you are brought back to Canada to avoid high American health prices. Spelled out clearly in the application.
Whine: " I rented out my house for the winter, where will I live" Idiot, of course that is Insurance companies fault/problem.
Additional Action: Policy allows for ONE person to fly (as cheap as possible) to Florida to return with victims car.
Od mans son's responce: Takes entire family by plane to Florida for 6 nights and tries to pass expenses for air fare for 5 people and 6 nights of hotel and meals back to the insurance company.
Whine: Company says "get ****ed" and son snivels about "those insurance bastards are crooks"
And on and on it goes...
The company has doctors and nurses on staff and services are provided on tha application signed. You get the MINIMUM amount allowed to get well, not a private room in the best hospital in Beverly Hills.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.08.15 18:59:00 -
[57]
scrap welfare I say, replace with public works projects. Because you get **** like this oh you have kids in school and you are on welfare, okay, have $200 for school supplies. yea sure that will work great
You want to collect unemployment benefits do you? okay here is a job do it and you get money. don't do it and well have fun eating out of the bin.
then we can have public heath care.
and if you are really afraid of public care, start up (or I guess keep) your own private care.
I don't understand all the general outrage, health care was one of the main things obama ran on, and now that he is doing it (or well trying to at least) people get all upset.
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Jacob Mei
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.15 19:09:00 -
[58]
Considering the bill is what, over 1000 pages, I dont think it can easyily be summed up in a few short paragraphs for as why we americans are so divided on it, hell id be surprised if those in Congress have fully read and understood the whole thing.
I may be wrong but I believe this is the bill in question.
I would have to say the "problem" (for lack of a better word) is that americans are for the majority hyper sensitive when it comes to anything that is perceieved to be socialist and unfortunitely alot of people are not above playing that card. Its like someone calling another person a racist. Even if that person didnt do anything that is defined as racism simply being called that ussually puts the person on the defensive and they often times will do whatever it takes to correct the "mistake".
On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
Iasius
Mercurialis Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 19:10:00 -
[59]
imo if USA did'n t spend so much money on militery spending it could spend it on more healthcare. But USA seems to have a strategic model of being no #1 in the world by lower taxation, the petrodollar and high militery spending.
And the price for that is a large underclass. Many of whom resort to crime.
If USA didnt have such a presence in western Europe during the cold war. The Europeans would have to cough up for high militery spending themselves and would have to sacrifice some of their welfare state.
Its weird, most Americans don't give a toss about what goes on elsewhere in the world. But the political elite do. And i wonder often is that why the political elite in USA have made terrorism such a bogeyman it is.
A USA think tank said in the late 90's that USA needed a catalyst event like Pearl Habour to make it more focused on asserting it power around the world. 911 was that.
I have gone off topic but imo healthcare and militery spending conflict with each other.
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MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 19:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Iasius
I have gone off topic but imo healthcare and militery spending conflict with each other.
Ah I get it now. a certain percentage of sick people should be driven over in a tank !!!
I like it...
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