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Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 19:45:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Kravick Drasani on 15/08/2009 20:01:59
 Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 15/08/2009 17:49:30
Basically the mindset is as follows...
Government run healthcare will bring forth even more unneeded bureaucracy and red tape that will actually end up making it more expensive for the common man and woman, and in this it is not "free" because you will be paying for it with your taxes(just the rich cannot hold such a burden as President Obama might tell you).
Thats propaganda from the insurance companies. Did you know that your insurance claim is already being limited by bureaucracy and red tape? Only, instead of a government official who could care less if you get the health care or not since they are not paid by how much "profit" the company makes you get that exact same thing happening with corporate bureaucrats. They are less likely to approve your claim and will tell you to **** off, we've dropped you from our insurance plan because you cost to much money and would hurt our profits.
This happens every day with the current system. People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice. Where do you think the multi billion dollar profits these companies are reporting are coming from? Its because they're not helping the people who are paying them money for health care. The worst part is this is all perfectly legal. Health insurance companies here in America have the right to drop you as a policy holder for any reason at any time without a justifiable reason. Its in the fine print on that contract you signed. If you think thats unfair and try to take them to court over the matter they have hundreds of high priced lawyers at their disposal to lengthen the court process to the point where you have to drop the case because you can't afford your 1 not so high priced (but still expensive) lawyer.
Obviously this means I'm for the socialized health care. You could say its for selfish reasons but I've needed to see a doctor for over a year. I have a certain problem that has been getting worse and needs to be looked at, but can't because I can't afford health insurance. My job doesn't allow me to use the company health insurance plan because they give me just under the amount of hours needed per week to qualify me for full time work status. I also don't have a kid, am single, and live on my own. I'm also a white male so its impossible to get "charity" as they tend to only help the minority. I cannot get state funded assistance ether for this same reason. I have a job so they won't help. It would cost me $150 just to have a doctor look at me. Then another $75 for him to write a prescription should I need it, which is most likely. Then I'd have to pay any where from $35-$80 for the damn drugs depending on how expensive they are. I don't have this kind of money since I'm barely scraping by as is.
You might think that I would be worse off if I had to pay an additional tax to cover socialized medicine but I guarantee you it wouldn't. I'd most likely have to cancel my EVE subscription but hey, at least I get a simple problem taken care of that I can't now.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Originally by: Iasius
I have gone off topic but imo healthcare and militery spending conflict with each other.
Ah I get it now. a certain percentage of sick people should be driven over in a tank !!!
I like it...
I like it as well, we should by more tanks that way we can run over more sick people and cure them of their illness
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:09:00 -
[63]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:15:49
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
Quote:
Where do you think the multi billion dollar profits these companies are reporting are coming from? Its because they're not helping the people who are paying them money for health care.
Wrong again. They make their money from investing the premiums they get into the market. The premiums are not anywhere high enough to make the money they make. I know as I see our annual statement that show income from premiums vs company profit from investments on the market.
Quote:
The worst part is this is all perfectly legal. Health insurance companies here in America have the right to drop you as a policy holder for any reason at any time without a justifiable reason.
Again, not necessarily true. there are policies that you can buy in America that are GUARANTEED renewable
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:22:00 -
[64]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
And this is why healthcare should NEVER be a business.
A few years ago a guy from my guild on SWG came down with cancer. He was not a bum but owned his own shop that he built up from nothing. Upon finding out that he had cancer his insurence company refused to pay for his treatment dispite the fact that they happily took 20 years worth of payments. In the end the poor guy had to sell literally everything he owned, his shop, his house, his car, everything to pay the $500,000 needed for treatment. Treatment which is free on the NHS.
Im sorry but from over here it looks like the USA has the third world healthcare system.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
Edited by: Kravick Drasani on 15/08/2009 20:01:59
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 15/08/2009 17:49:30
Basically the mindset is as follows...
Government run healthcare will bring forth even more unneeded bureaucracy and red tape that will actually end up making it more expensive for the common man and woman, and in this it is not "free" because you will be paying for it with your taxes(just the rich cannot hold such a burden as President Obama might tell you).
Thats propaganda from the insurance companies. Did you know that your insurance claim is already being limited by bureaucracy and red tape?
I never said our current policy is worth holding, infact if you read more then one line of my post you will know I think it does need reform, but if you dont like apples, and you are being sent apples daily from some company, why turn around and ask the government to give you apples instead of the government.
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MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:29:00 -
[66]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:32:49
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
And this is why healthcare should NEVER be a business.
A few years ago a guy from my guild on SWG came down with cancer. He was not a bum but owned his own shop that he built up from nothing. Upon finding out that he had cancer his insurence company refused to pay for his treatment dispite the fact that they happily took 20 years worth of payments. In the end the poor guy had to sell literally everything he owned, his shop, his house, his car, everything to pay the $500,000 needed for treatment. Treatment which is free on the NHS.
Im sorry but from over here it looks like the USA has the third world healthcare system.
Yes those stories are common, however there is only one side to the story here. There are two possibilities. 1). The insurance company was crooked or 2). They had a perfectly legitimate reason for doing this, quite often (but not always) due to some lie or more likely omission that was told when the insurance was applied for 20 years ago. If he had the dreaded "pre-existing condition" that would make his cancer coverage exempt, the insurance company may have discovered this when they received his medical records after he made his claim. Of course everyone wants the cheaper "no-smoking" rates but think they deserve them when they are a 3 pack a day smoker. Easily determined these days with a swab from the inside of your cheek.
But in any case there is likely more to the story here I'd be interested in hearing. I've been in IT for 30 years, mostly in Insurance companies and I have heard it all...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
And this is why healthcare should NEVER be a business.
A few years ago a guy from my guild on SWG came down with cancer. He was not a bum but owned his own shop that he built up from nothing. Upon finding out that he had cancer his insurence company refused to pay for his treatment dispite the fact that they happily took 20 years worth of payments. In the end the poor guy had to sell literally everything he owned, his shop, his house, his car, everything to pay the $500,000 needed for treatment. Treatment which is free on the NHS.
Im sorry but from over here it looks like the USA has the third world healthcare system.
Yes those stories are common, however there is only one side to the story here. There are two possibilities. 1). The insurance company was crooked s****or 2). They had a perfectly legitimate reason for doing this, quite often (but not always) due to some lie that was told when the insurance was applied for 20 years ago. If he had the dreaded "pre-existing condition" that would make his cancer coverage exempt, the insurance company may have discovered this when hey received his medical records after he made his claim.
But in any case there is likely more to the story here I'd be interested in hearing. I've been in IT for 30 years, mostly in Insurance companies and I have heard it all...
The reason was that they "dont cover that type of cancer anymore"
I just find this whole thing disgusting.
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Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:45:00 -
[68]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
And this is why healthcare should NEVER be a business.
A few years ago a guy from my guild on SWG came down with cancer. He was not a bum but owned his own shop that he built up from nothing. Upon finding out that he had cancer his insurence company refused to pay for his treatment dispite the fact that they happily took 20 years worth of payments. In the end the poor guy had to sell literally everything he owned, his shop, his house, his car, everything to pay the $500,000 needed for treatment. Treatment which is free on the NHS.
Im sorry but from over here it looks like the USA has the third world healthcare system.
It does. Cuba has a better health care system then we do. ****ing CUBA. We had some 9/11 rescue workers go down there to get health treatment about a year or two ago because under our system they couldn't get treatment.
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Yes those stories are common, however there is only one side to the story here. There are two possibilities. 1). The insurance company was crooked or 2). They had a perfectly legitimate reason for doing this, quite often (but not always) due to some lie or more likely omission that was told when the insurance was applied for 20 years ago. If he had the dreaded "pre-existing condition" that would make his cancer coverage exempt, the insurance company may have discovered this when they received his medical records after he made his claim. Of course everyone wants the cheaper "no-smoking" rates but think they deserve them when they are a 3 pack a day smoker. Easily determined these days with a swab from the inside of your cheek.
But in any case there is likely more to the story here I'd be interested in hearing. I've been in IT for 30 years, mostly in Insurance companies and I have heard it all...
I'm sorry but you're a ****ing idiot. You do not have cancer for 20 ****ing years as a pre-existing condition. The ONLY way I can conceivably see this being the case is if he smoked for 20 years thus causing lung cancer. I'm paying an insurance company to cover medical expenses then I better damn well have my medical expenses covered! ****s sake if they're just going to drop me the minute I need to use them then what the hell is the point of me paying them money to begin with?
Originally by: MaxxOmega
The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.
Yes, guilty. When someone takes money from you that has not been donated by you without giving you goods or services in return is commonly known as stealing. Stealing is a crime in every country on this planet.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 20:48:00 -
[69]
Ran out of room in above post.
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Wrong again. They make their money from investing the premiums they get into the market. The premiums are not anywhere high enough to make the money they make. I know as I see our annual statement that show income from premiums vs company profit from investments on the market.
I know this not to be the case because when the stock market crashed there for a while after the mortgage crap they where still reporting record profits.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 21:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
It does. Cuba has a better health care system then we do. ****ing CUBA. We had some 9/11 rescue workers go down there to get health treatment about a year or two ago because under our system they couldn't get treatment.
It is still illegal for US citizens to visit Cuba, with specific exceptions, so link please.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 21:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kravick Drasani
Ran out of room in above post.
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Wrong again. They make their money from investing the premiums they get into the market. The premiums are not anywhere high enough to make the money they make. I know as I see our annual statement that show income from premiums vs company profit from investments on the market.
I know this not to be the case because when the stock market crashed there for a while after the mortgage crap they where still reporting record profits.
No you don't know **** and I can guarantee I am not an idiot. I thought we were actually having a nice discussion and then you started the name calling and disrespect.
I never said he had cancer for 20 years but I can assure you that it is common for people to lie and omit illness on their application. It happens all the time. SO,e idiots have actually said to us "how are you gonna catch me" lol
And I don't care what you think. The insurance companies were not investing in those mortgages, most of them stopped doing that decades ago. For insurance companies to make huge profits with out investing premiums they would have to charge very very high premiums that would mostly be unaffordable. But you have the typical attitude about most people. You seem to believe that insurance companies have some kind of obligations thay they don't actually have and when you find out they don't you get angry at them and call them names (or anyone else who doesn't agree with you).
Those idiotic tv lawyer ads imply that they can make every loser rich but when 9 out of 10 insurance cases that actually reach the courts go in favor of the company, it is because the person involved in the suit is simply in the wrong.
I would love to keep up the discussion if you can have a little respect so we can talk. Otherwise, whatever I guess...
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Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 21:50:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Kravick Drasani on 15/08/2009 21:52:45
Originally by: Awesome Possum
It is still illegal for US citizens to visit Cuba, with specific exceptions, so link please.
Theres a whole documentary dedicated to it. Its called Sicko. You and that Maxx guy should watch it. And please, don't try to debunk it as something that isn't true. Nothing that was shown in that documentary has been faked. I mean no offense by this of course but its just the way things are on the internet. People are stubborn and tend to ignore or disregard everything that conflicts with their point of view. BTW, yes those people did go to Cuba illegally. They didn't have a choice.
Its 2 hours 3 minutes and 12 seconds long. I'd be very surprised if you actually took the time to watch it though. Most people tend to ignore evidence on the internet.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6646340600856118396&ei=T65_SuLkOZrwqAO2t9HlDg&q=sicko
Originally by: MaxxOmega
No you don't know this to be the case and I can guarantee I am not an idiot. I thought we were actually having a nice discussion and then you started the name calling and disrespect.
Yes I do and I can guarantee that you are. You just defended insurance companies with the LOLpreexistingcondition response without actually knowing the details yourself. You jumped to a conclusion which is very idiotic.
Quote:
I never said he had cancer for 20 years but I can assure you that it is common for people to lie and omit illness on their application. It happens all the time. Some idiots have actually said to us "how are you gonna catch me" lol
But why do people feel that they have to lie? Do you think it might have everything to do with the fact insurance companies (not just health ones) in America are notorious for cheating their customers? They get away with it because insurance companies have 2 things on their side. Money to pay for high priced lawyers, and time. With these two things they can delay court hearings long enough that its not possible for the victi... er, excuse me, I mean average working adults to be able to afford the required legal council to proceed on these matters. It has nothing to do with "something emotional" thing you so eloquently put below.
Quote:
And I don't care what you think. The insurance companies were not investing in those mortgages, most of them stopped doing that decades ago. For insurance companies to make huge profits with out investing premiums they would have to charge very very high premiums that would mostly be unaffordable. But you have the typical attitude about most people. You seem to believe that insurance companies have some kind of obligations thay they don't actually have and when you find out they don't you get angry at them and call them names (or anyone else who doesn't agree with you).
Those idiotic tv lawyer ads imply that they can make every loser rich but when 9 out of 10 insurance cases that actually reach the courts go in favor of the company, it is because the person involved in the suit is simply in the wrong but because they are dealing with something emotional they believe they should win regardless.
I would love to keep up the discussion if you can have a little respect so we can talk. Otherwise, whatever I guess...
They ARE obligated. I am PAYING them for a service and they turn around and refuse said service when its time to provide it. I do have respect for people who disagree with me. Awesome Possum disagrees with me. I have respect for him because he makes logical arguments and doesn't resort to LOLassumptions like you have. He does not insult me by implying that honest hard working people are trying to "cheat" the system. They are only trying to get what they ****ing paid for. Yes, you are an idiot. This is why I called you an idiot. You act like one. You gave no respect so I give no respect. |
TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Fact is, all this 'free' healthcare is going to do is keep poor stupid people alive longer, to drain our taxes quicker.
But just like the welfare system; the poor, lazy, and stupid will just milk this for all its worth and be even more comfortable and healthy while sitting on their lazy asses getting fat at the expense of the hard working.
This system would be great, if it were only for people who were in a short rut (myself) and only needed it for a limited amount of time (guess what? There's already 'emergency temporary health insurance' out there).
Its not going to work.
hah but then all of us Europeans gave up, deciding to enjoy ourselves more and be lazy. Americans (and eastern europeans) are known for their good work ethic, while we are not.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Dark Ascendancy
The Council.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: TimMc
Americans are known for their good work ethic
You're kidding right? Did I just get trolled? 
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Iasius
Mercurialis Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:24:00 -
[75]
The 'i want to have my cake and eat it' public don't like being told what to do by the government. But when it comes to healthcare maybe they should. Why not have a 50/50 regime where people can get healthcare if they sort themselves out to some extent as well. For example if an obese person wants healthcare they should loose some weight. And if someone gives up smoking they could get extra healthcare benefits.
Myself i do smoke. So maybe i should be told give up smoking or i will loose priority for the heart issues i have. I am 34 and did'nt expect to make it to this age anyway haw haw!
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. ~Saint |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:24:00 -
[76]
American's are happy giving Mr.mohammed allah ackbar's country millions of dollars year on year but not wanting any money spent on helping their own countrymen, the mind does wonder, but then again america does seem to suffer from 'we want it but dont want to pay for it!' syndrome.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:28:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Thorliaron
American's are happy giving Mr.mohammed allah ackbar's country millions of dollars year on year but not wanting any money spent on helping their own countrymen, the mind does wonder, but then again america does seem to suffer from 'we want it but dont want to pay for it!' syndrome.
Bah if you want irony go for the anti-abortion lot who dont like the NHS idea. Honestly the irony is so sweet it would render any brit into a histerical fit 100 miles in every direction.
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Something Random
Gallente
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:32:00 -
[78]
British - Happy
and hell the NHS saved my life twice already, for free. You guys make me laugh sometimes, seriously 
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:46:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Iasius
imo if USA did'n t spend so much money on militery spending it could spend it on more healthcare. But USA seems to have a strategic model of being no #1 in the world by lower taxation, the petrodollar and high militery spending.
Its pretty funny that USA and UK taxes are pretty much the same, but we are socialist.
Not to the extent that holland and others are though...
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Thorliaron
American's are happy giving Mr.mohammed allah ackbar's country millions of dollars year on year but not wanting any money spent on helping their own countrymen, the mind does wonder, but then again america does seem to suffer from 'we want it but dont want to pay for it!' syndrome.
HAHAHA
Actually I'd be more inclined to agree with national welfare/health care if it was paid for with money we give away to foreign nations.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
MaxxOmega
Caldari
Rukongai
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:50:00 -
[81]
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 22:55:37
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 22:53:06
My God Kravick do you actually read what I am posting? The LOL Pre-existing condition clause is a reality and people lie to get around it. But they get caught. And your asinie respone is Quote:
But why do people feel that they have to lie? Do you think it might have everything to do with the fact insurance companies (not just health ones) in America are notorious for cheating their customers?
No, they lie becaue they are dishonest. Like the same peole who download music and movies. All thieves, and quite acceptable by a people who have learned to believe they are entitled to pretty much anything they want as long as someone else pays for it when they cannot.
So are you condoning lying to get service and justify it with accusations of crooked companies. And what facts can you produce to prove that American Insurance companies are cheating their customers? How many are being cheated? All of them some of them? And you know this for sure because? Your evidence is Michael Moore and the Internet? How am I disprepectful? Because I don't agree with you. What a goof ball...
And listen and read carefully if you can. There is a BIG difference between REFUSING SERVICE and DROPPING YOU AS A CUSTOMER. Can you comprehend this difference?
You mentioned "this emotional thing" down below? You really don't understand do you? Please how old are you and what is your education level? Maybe run this past your mom, she might be able to explain to you how business works in the real world... In the meantime go find some kids toys to play with and come back when you grow up a little...
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:55:00 -
[82]
Originally by: TimMc
but we are socialist.
There's an awful long line of kings and queens waiting to butt **** liz the 2nd when she kicks the bucket.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 22:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Iasius
imo if USA did'n t spend so much money on militery spending it could spend it on more healthcare. But USA seems to have a strategic model of being no #1 in the world by lower taxation, the petrodollar and high militery spending.
Its pretty funny that USA and UK taxes are pretty much the same, but we are socialist.
Not to the extent that holland and others are though...
America is more socialist than America realizes though. Police, fire fighters, social security, libraries, public schools, medicare. These are all socialist systems in place to better our society that we take for granted. These, of course, are not perfect and without problems. But ohnoes, we don't want our sick or injured people getting healthy now do we?
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Cridil
Caldari
Cloned from the Gibbet
Aggressive Therapy
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:00:00 -
[84]
Ok someone please explain this "With free Healthcare their will be poor people who will milk the system" arguement.
If you are sick you see a doctor. Doesnt matter if you have millions in the bank or nothing in the bank.
Unless of course you are saying poor people dont deserve the right to healthcare because they are poor.
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Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Demon Theory
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:06:00 -
[85]
Americans, for the most part, will believe anything the government tells them, that's part of the problem. Another problem is our taxation without representation, I believe lobbying for business should be illegal.
I pay $80 a month for just myself through my employer's health plan, including dental and vision coverage. I will not be covered if I go to another hospital that I don't work at and I won't be covered if I go to a dentist or optometrist not employed by the hospital. If I'm out of town and get injured, they'll cover half of my expenses, provided I get a letter from said hospital stating that I needed immediate treatment and couldn't be transported. If I had a wife and children, I'd be paying around $300 a month just for coverage. If I DO have to go the ER, I'm looking at an average wait time of 8 hours with a $500 deductible, at that point 80% of my treatment is covered. If I need surgery, the expense has to be approved by the board of directors because my health plan is through work.
A room at the hospital I work at runs an average of $1,700 a day not including any surgical procedures I might need. People with insurance get admitted, people who don't have insurance get bounced out after they're stabilized. I will note, however, that employees are rushed to the front of the line, when my girlfriend had to go to the ER, she told them she worked there and was seen immediately. She wasn't employed by the hospital directly, she worked in the gift shop. She didn't have insurance and a steroid injection for her asthma cost her $1,000.
I work in a community hospital and my tax and insurance dollars are already paying for people who don't have coverage and get their treatment for free anyways. I support universal coverage, even if I'd have to pay more in taxes.
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
some people need to have the stupid beaten out of them
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Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:07:00 -
[86]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 22:55:37
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 22:53:06
My God Kravick do you actually read what I am posting? The LOL Pre-existing condition clause is a reality and people lie to get around it. But they get caught. And your asinie respone is Quote:
But why do people feel that they have to lie? Do you think it might have everything to do with the fact insurance companies (not just health ones) in America are notorious for cheating their customers?
No, they lie becaue they are dishonest. Like the same peole who download music and movies. All thieves, and quite acceptable by a people who have learned to believe they are entitled to pretty much anything they want as long as someone else pays for it when they cannot.
So are you condoning lying to get service and justify it with accusations of crooked companies. And what facts can you produce to prove that American Insurance companies are cheating their customers? How many are being cheated? All of them some of them? And you know this for sure because? Your evidence is Michael Moore and the Internet? How am I disprepectful? Because I don't agree with you. What a goof ball...
And listen and read carefully if you can. There is a BIG difference between REFUSING SERVICE and DROPPING YOU AS A CUSTOMER. Can you comprehend this difference?
You mentioned "this emotional thing" down below? You really don't understand do you? Please how old are you and what is your education level? Maybe run this past your mom, she might be able to explain to you how business works in the real world... In the meantime go find some kids toys to play with and come back when you grow up a little...
And this is why I don't give you respect. You think hard working adults are out to cheat the system. I'm 27 with a college degree. I have already posted proof above via link. Of course I knew you where going to ignore it. You're an idiot. What else could I have expected from a dumb ass?
Heres some more proof. The former Cigna employee speaks out against his company. You won't watch it though because it would conflict with your opinion.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And that sounds great. It is an important thing that everyone be enrolled in some kind of a benefit plan. They don't want a public plan. They want all the uninsured to have to be enrolled in a private insurance plan. They want-- they see those 50 million people as potentially 50 million new customers. So they're in favor of that. They see this as a way to essentially lock them into the system, and ensure their profitability in the future. The strategy is as it was in 1993 and '94, to conduct this charm offensive on the surface. But behind the scenes, to use front groups and third-party advocates and ideological allies. And those on Capitol Hill who are aligned with them, philosophically, to do the dirty work. To demean and scare people about a government-run plan, try to make people not even remember that Medicare, their Medicare program, is a government-run plan that has operated a lot more efficiently.
And also, the people who are enrolled in our Medicare plan like it better. The satisfaction ratings are higher in our Medicare program, a government-run program, than in private insurance. But they don't want you to remember that or to know that, and they want to scare you into thinking that through the anecdotes they tell you, that any government-run system, particularly those in Canada, and UK, and France that the people are very unhappy.
And that these people will have to wait in long lines to get care, or wait a long time to get care. I'd like to take them down to Wise County. I'd like the president to come down to Wise County, and see some real lines of Americans, standing in line to get their care.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:08:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Cridil
Ok someone please explain this "With free Healthcare their will be poor people who will milk the system" arguement.
If you are sick you see a doctor. Doesnt matter if you have millions in the bank or nothing in the bank.
Unless of course you are saying poor people dont deserve the right to healthcare because they are poor.
Well, yes, they are.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
Fux Orgasma
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Originally by: Whitehound
Since when does one watch a movie to meet expectations? It is all about entertainment. If you watch a movie because you expect to find truth in it then you are nuts.
Yes I want entertainment. Not interested in a movie that is preaching the evils of apartheid. Around here a few "whites only" signs would avoid the multiple shootings that happen every bloody day because the signs aren't there and enforced. I don't remember EVER hearing about "white" gangs roving the streets shooting each other and any bystander in their way...
Wow, even in other threads your racism is shining through quite clear. Damn those aliens and their access to free health care on my dime!
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Cridil
Ok someone please explain this "With free Healthcare their will be poor people who will milk the system" arguement.
If you are sick you see a doctor. Doesnt matter if you have millions in the bank or nothing in the bank.
Unless of course you are saying poor people dont deserve the right to healthcare because they are poor.
If you fake you're sick, you see a doctor. You get a prescription. You sell said prescription for money.
People with insurance do it NOW, you think they won't do it with national healthcare?
As for the person who posted that video.. yeah sorry, Michael Moore? No thanks.
I'll take your word for it 9/11 heroes for some strange reason had to go to Cuba, of all places, as their last resort for proper care.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.08.15 23:33:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Kravick Drasani on 15/08/2009 23:34:36
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Cridil
Ok someone please explain this "With free Healthcare their will be poor people who will milk the system" arguement.
If you are sick you see a doctor. Doesnt matter if you have millions in the bank or nothing in the bank.
Unless of course you are saying poor people dont deserve the right to healthcare because they are poor.
If you fake you're sick, you see a doctor. You get a prescription. You sell said prescription for money.
People with insurance do it NOW, you think they won't do it with national healthcare?
As for the person who posted that video.. yeah sorry, Michael Moore? No thanks.
I'll take your word for it 9/11 heroes for some strange reason had to go to Cuba, of all places, as their last resort for proper care.
I have no idea what peoples issues with Michael Moore are. I don't pay attention to Hollywood drama, but his documentary is no less true or fake because he directed it. Try the other link above. Michael Moore isn't involved.
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How to kill interceptors: Zip down your fly and release. After about 10 orbits your stream just might hit him. Or a multi webbed Rapier should slow him down enough that you can drop #2 on him. |
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