Originally by: MaxxOmega

---

Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29

Originally by: Kravick Drasani

---

People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.

---

The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.

---

Originally by: MaxxOmega

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

Originally by: MaxxOmega

---

Edited by: MaxxOmega on 15/08/2009 20:10:29

Originally by: Kravick Drasani

---

People who pay insurance but are dropped coverage because its not profitable. These are people with jobs, families, and who are not abusing wellfare. Cigna is especially guilty of this practice.

---

The word guilty seems to imply they have done something wrong. They haven't. If you come into my store and complain about prices of my product I don't want you as a customer. I get to decide who I want as a customer and am under no obligation to serve someone who doesn't increase my profit. Private insurance companies are there for only one thing. To make a profit. A profit for shareholders, or owners. They are not there to provide jobs or to serve customers beyond what the customer has paid for.

---

And this is why healthcare should NEVER be a business.

A few years ago a guy from my guild on SWG came down with cancer. He was not a bum but owned his own shop that he built up from nothing. Upon finding out that he had cancer his insurence company refused to pay for his treatment dispite the fact that they happily took 20 years worth of payments. In the end the poor guy had to sell literally everything he owned, his shop, his house, his car, everything to pay the $500,000 needed for treatment. Treatment which is free on the NHS.

Im sorry but from over here it looks like the USA has the third world healthcare system.

---

Yes those stories are common, however there is only one side to the story here. There are two possibilities. 1). The insurance company was crooked s****or 2). They had a perfectly legitimate reason for doing this, quite often (but not always) due to some lie that was told when the insurance was applied for 20 years ago. If he had the dreaded "pre-existing condition" that would make his cancer coverage exempt, the insurance company may have discovered this when hey received his medical records after he made his claim.
But in any case there is likely more to the story here I'd be interested in hearing. I've been in IT for 30 years, mostly in Insurance companies and I have heard it all...

---

Originally by: Thorliaron

---

American's are happy giving Mr.mohammed allah ackbar's country millions of dollars year on year but not wanting any money spent on helping their own countrymen, the mind does wonder, but then again america does seem to suffer from 'we want it but dont want to pay for it!' syndrome.

---

Originally by: Kedo

---

I will tell you why I don't want universal health care. For one they plan to pay for it by TAXING those that have a job that grants health care. So lets get this straight. To pay for health care for everyone, they are going to tax those who have health care already (only 1/7 don't have health care here). Also because only the super sick will pay for it, they are going to make it mandatory for EVERYONE to buy into the government one to keep the costs down. (Health insurance works just like car insurance, if only drunk drivers went to 1 insurance company the cost would be insane. So they need EVERYONE to go to it to pay for the bad apples)

So lets see, those with care are taxed on that care, those without get affordable care but they HAVE to buy it otherwise they get hit with a government fine. This is the start of socialism right here, forcing everyone to do something without an option, taking from those who have and giving to those who don't have.

Also let me ask you this. When some major surgery is happening to someone with lots of money in your country, do they sometimes come to the USA for it? Fact is that with standardized health care comes standardized fees to doctors. Doctors being paid the same amount if they are pro or not leads to no competition which leads to shoddy care.

When you want the best you always come to USA.

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 17/08/2009 04:54:50
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 17/08/2009 04:45:58

Originally by: Tallaran Kouros

---

I've been following the healthcare debate that's been playing out in the media over the last few weeks, and I must admit I am quite confused as to what the big deal is over free healthcare and why there is so much resistance to it in the US.

Can someone explain why so many Americans are so afraid of free healthcare and what their big arguement against it is?

---

My grandparents enjoy the idea, and I look forward to the same idea, of using drugs and treatments that have been rationed out of use in socialized healthcare systems. For instance, if my mother gets breast cancer, she'll have an option to use Lapatinib to prolong her life is it is terminal. But, women in the UK, no0 longer have access to that life prolonging drug - because- in a soclialized healthcare system, spending money on the dying becomes no longer feasible.

Originally by: Tallaran Kouros

---

Sure I pay money each month and rarely need to see a doctor or attend a hospital, but if I *wasn't* working and wasn't paying then that's fine, I would be covered also and that's the big difference between here and the US - everyone is covered regardless of their income (or lack of it) and up to a certain limit, as you earn more you pay a bit more.

---

When the UK has a higher tax rate than the US, and some 80% of its budget is for the NHS, everyone is made poorer by that system through the VAT, reduced economy from higher taxes, and fewer people normally working.

You have failed to understand the healthcare system in the us, and the ridiculousness of the current debate. There are many things that can be done to the health system, that politicians will not dare, that will reduce the overall cost. For instance, people int he US can not buy health insurance from another state. No logical reason, but the friends of my state governor make alot of money selling ads to the state sanctioned health insurance companies. The federal government requires treatment in all policies that not all people would want to pay for, but their inclusion raises the overall cost of healthcare. No where int he current debate is tort reform, of which the trial lawyers give the greatest amoutn of money to the controlling party.

---

Originally by: Schalac

---

Why do people keep saying "free" when referring to the health care plan? It is far from free, maybe if you are a piece of **** and are already on welfare and haven't worked for most of your adult life, then it is free. But the rest of us are going to be paying for it, and I say **** that. Get off your lazy ass and work so that you can afford to buy your healthcare and everything else you need to survive.

---

Originally by: Cridil

---

Originally by: goodby4u

---

If I ever took offense to anything I would take offense to this... I have never insulted anybody in a proper debate, or at the very least I never attempted to do so and I am conservative.

---

Are you offended by the way I view conservative Americans?
or
Is it that your offended by the way some conservative Americans have acted, which has caused me to have this view?

---

Originally by: Orion Eridanus

---

I will gladly help out those who fall on hard times, I have before. I will not help those who will not help themselves and choose to live soley on the charity of others while contributing nothing back to society. Unfortunately I can't choose where my tax dollars go and until that day comes where I can choose where to send my taxed income I will be strongly against any increase in tax for whatever reason.

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

And disproe anything these personalities said about healthcare?

---

Originally by: Nai Ling

---

Edited by: Nai Ling on 20/08/2009 04:35:10
Nothing is "free." Especially not in America. National Healthcare would mean higher taxes. I already have enough problems keeping enough cash in my pocket to pay the bills. I have free healthcare through my job, but I also pay for supplemental insurance on my own so that I don't pay hundreds of dollars when I need to make a trip to the doctor. My "self-employed" insurance is also far cheaper for medication.

And free doctor's visits are great, but what happens when the government funding runs out, and doctors stop taking patients due to lack of payment from the government?
"I'm sorry Mrs. Smith, we can't treat your daughter's pneumonia. It appears that the country has surpassed it's annual $1.5 Billion budget. We should reschedule for sometime next April."

---

Originally by: Downtym

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

We here in the uk pay a lot less per head of population and spend less of our GDP for our health care and get a far better service.

---

Ah, I see where you're going wrong. You're attempting to argue "logic" to Americans. You have to come to understand that we are impervious to such attempts to use Science to convince people of the truth. Remember, when conversing with Americans it's more important to sound really confident, state hyperboles about what will happen if people don't go along with you, call your opponents Communists (Socialists), claim the opposing side has nuclear weapons, cite God, and always end every sentence with some variant of 'and my opponents are trying to destroy America'.

Extra points if you tie everything into the homosexual agenda.

Example:

"If we don't fix the healthcare problem then only criminals will get decent healthcare. I am utterly confident of our course because God told me that the people who don't want you to have healthcare have nukes and are all socialists trying to destroy America."

---

Originally by: Atillius

---

The rest of your post lacks substance...its just figures....figures lie and lairs figure. Heck, nearly 230,000 Brits have to wait more than 18 weeks for treatment....and they have NHS and it seems due to bureaucracy has doubled in cost in the last 4 years....patients not getting much needed cancer drugs, regional criteria discrepancies all over the country...how can it be regional if its supposed to be a NHS? Americans have more access to advanced med tech than Canadians....I guess that's why their health czar came here for treatment. There is a re-occurring factor with NHS...waiting...waiting....and more waiting. I guess you get what you pay for? Also when the UK adopted the NHS how much did it cost them to start up? From 1949 to 1989....Britons suffered until market based insurance was introduced. 45% of our health care is paid for by the public...YES, BUT what they fail to say is why. The reason is because of the failures of programs such as medicaid and the abuse of that program. We do not willfully pay for the program...we are FORCED too. When some shulb calls 911 for a taxi ride to the hospital in which he lives 2 blocks from to be seen in the ER for a head ache....I pay for it whenl; he has no job, no real insurance...the hospital will triage him, give him pain meds, send him for a ct scan, and maybe even an MRI....then he'll talk to the attending doc and maybe the neurologist.

Our system has serious problems...mostly because of greed...on part of the doctors and the patients who sue for malpractice and abuse the state funded systems. We need overhaul....not redesign.

---

Originally by: Atillius

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

None essential work there is a waiting list. For emergencies you get seen to right away. When I had my apendix out I was in the operating room within the hour. I have NEVER had to wait for more than that for anything on the NHS nore have I had to pay silly sums of money for any of it.

---

Same goes for the US....or at least in my city. If you enter an ER and need emergency surgery you get it on the tax payers cuff. A patient will qualify for "emergency medicaid". If you enter an ER with an acute medical problem that will lead to you dying quickly, you get the surgery....A doctor can not just let you die, he have to exhaust all possible resources. Having to wait months for need treatment or a specialist is not my idea of good health care. And as it seems, there are even problems with the NHS you have...unless all that I read are lies.

Quote:

---

All of the figures you hate are still facts that show just how much better the NHS realy is than the system you have which expoilts your nation and leaves 47 million Americans with no health cover at all with millions more who have to pay for top ups as insurence compaines dont pay all of the bill leaving them to suffer and even die to simple to treat things such as a bad apendix.

---

Sorry, what figures do I hate? I didn't really mention any aside from the potential cost that NO ONE has yet to give us....maybe you confused me with someone else? Also, no one has yet to say how we plan to put 47 million people on to the insurance roles....what doctors are they going to use....? Of that 47 Million how many are on COBRA? How many choose NOT to have insurance, and how many do not have jobs?

I agree our system has many problems...but I would rather have state government monitor and control health insurance, not the federales. Many of these proponents for NHS say that the problems are with the insurance companies...except of course when they give hundreds of thousands of dollars to people like Hillary Clinton for her 2006 senate re-election....then its all a-ok. In 1993 then President Bill Clinton told us that if we do not take on a NHS that we would all be doomed in a few years...well its now 2009.

Another interesting question, Those for it in Washington have yet to say that they will take on this new insurance plan and dump their current one.....why is that?

We do NOT have a health care crisis....we have a health insurance crisis. I am for insurance reform...I am not for a new system.

---

Originally by: Atillius

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

It was in responce to you slating Kravick (which I have no issue with as I too don't like the way he is going about this). He used the figures I put down in this topic oh so long ago which showed that compared to the NHS you are already paying quite a deal more for health care and in taxes for what you have now.

---

I see, but I am fairly certain taxes are different from the US and the UK. In in the US, taxes differ from state to state. Its already been show to me by my union that a NHS will not be better than what I currently have. Remember that the US already has forms of NHS in the way of Medicare/Medicaid, the VA System, and military systems....all of which are utter failures and cash cows for the US Government. The folks in Washington DO NOT have my best interests in mind, its all about money.

---

Originally by: Atillius

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

Well you currently pay several thousand more a year than me for health care and more of your national GDP goes into health care than in the uk but you get a much worse service. Currently you are not getting a good service or value for money.

---

I pay several thousands? Really? How do you know how much I pay for my HMO? I haven't paid a cent aside from the rare co-pay. Case in point, this past Monday I had an acute health problem, my doctor sent me to one of the best cardiac hospitals in NYC which happens to be one of the best in the Country. I was there the very next day doing an Echo Cardiogram and a Nuclear Stress test, I paid nothing. I am very aware of how much I earn, what benefits I have and who I have to pay, I really do not need an outsider to tell me that I have substandard care when in fact its not true.

---