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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 09:34:00 -
[1]
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 09:38:00 -
[2]
Welcome to 9 months ago.
Heartstone.
---
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Leopold Caine
Amarr
Ordo Nigrorum Susurri
Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.08.17 11:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Not that I wish to teach you on how are usually logistics cruisers operating, but shouldn't you be taking into account what they are supposed to be doing, which is keeping other ships in the fleet alive?
Now, a simple killboard wouldn't actually be showing the actual efficiency of a logistics pilot then, would it?
Oh, and we could almost get over this little mistake in your logic if someone actually cared. Named and shamed? Pull yourself together, mr. Monkey. This kinds of primitive chest pounding attempts are really neither impressive nor amusing.
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Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:07:00 -
[4]
I was not in FW from a day one in the militia but i can say the neutrals were involved since the war started on every side.
Neutrals checking local, neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare, spies on ventrilo, fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies, propaganda, desinformation, etc.
Im 100% sure no side wil give up their advantages and aces easily and first.
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Leopold Caine
Not that I wish to teach you on how are usually logistics cruisers operating, but shouldn't you be taking into account what they are supposed to be doing, which is keeping other ships in the fleet alive?
Now, a simple killboard wouldn't actually be showing the actual efficiency of a logistics pilot then, would it?
Oh, and we could almost get over this little mistake in your logic if someone actually cared. Named and shamed? Pull yourself together, mr. Monkey. This kinds of primitive chest pounding attempts are really neither impressive nor amusing.
I have had a look at the combat databases Leo and you are not to be teaching anybody anything until you get out of the pilot training schools.
I obviously don't question the use of remote repair technology on the battlefield. The cowardly use of repair pilots who enter and actively participate in actions under the banner of neutrality is the equivalent of using ambulances to ferry military hardware.
It is an anathema to a combat pilot and the reserve of the coward.
My colours are nailed to the mast.
Find some courage or find a hole to crawl into.
Frank
..Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:39:00 -
[6]
Again frank i can't belive you are still alive, please learn about YOUR militia first and the NUETRAL entities working on YOUR behalf before you start your ranting again. Silly little Fail monkey always getting it wrong. I think i might keep you as a pet.
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TorrusTron
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
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Wait here i will go for help |
Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
It doesn't really surprise me that BattleFAIL Custard doesn't read too well. In the OP I clearly stated, for the readers among you, that I bemoaned the use by ANY side of neutrals in active engagements, in whatever role. This can be seen above. I even welcomed the opportunity for the Amarr to name and shame the Minmatar friendly neutral repair pilot that I referred to.
However, all this is lost on simple-minded BattleFAIL Crumpet, who misses no opportunity to convey his deep, deep stupidity.
BattleFAIL mate, if you have nothing to say, say nothing. Now you for instance have NOTHING to say and even worse for the rest of us, you say even that too loudly.
Now go back to organising another 60 pilot meat shield to surround and protect a pathetic, needy and ultimately weak pilot like yourself.
Frank [combat pilot]
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari
Burning Avarice
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
And your point is? This is war, every tactic is a valid tactic that has been shown by both sides. Both sides use neutal pilots to do logistics and scouting and im sure many other things that people dislike. I would not call them cowards, infact it is very smart. Only a fool would dismiss an advantage because of 'cowadice'.
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards, im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
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Sahriah Bloodstone
Burning Avarice
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
And your point is? This is war, every tactic is a valid tactic that has been shown by both sides. Both sides use neutal pilots to do logistics and scouting and im sure many other things that people dislike. I would not call them cowards, infact it is very smart. Only a fool would dismiss an advantage because of 'cowadice'.
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards, im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
I didn't accuse anyone of 'cowadice'.
I accused them of 'cowardice'.
Is that 'cowadice' something to do with those creatures of the bovine family?
In which case I have to disagree because most of the cowards I know are sheep and not cows.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 17/08/2009 13:04:03
If my information is right this Amon Xeno is directly associated with Nephilim Xeno, a well known Amarr Militia pilot. Interference with neutrals is not on the CONCORD sanctionized list of factional warfare. To use tactics like that may be rational and reasonable like it is rational and reasonable to use hospital ships as weapon or troup transporters. It is reasonable like using civilists, women, children and the aged as hostages to keep the warriors from the frontline. What comes next? Killercommandos that shoot the children in the basic school to scare away their parents from fighting? Is this the Amarr we are fighting?
If it is, expect no mercy when we win. And we will. Tactics like this lose a war. It was always like that. I don't tell anybody what he should do or not. But you will suffer the consequences of that. History gives an answer to those kind of "warriors".
But it is without honor. It is warfare on the shoulders of those who should be protected. If this is the way the Amarr Militia is fighting, there is no reason to fight anymore. You will lose your honorable warriors by tactics like this until only those without morale, without ethics are left.
And those who use these tactics befudge the honor of the warriors that try to keep the civilians out of the line of fire.
--
FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: TorrusTron
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus.
Name it and I am your monkey.
Frank
[p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out]
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards ...
Star Fraction.
Quote:
... im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
There is a big difference between Star Fraction's intervention and AMON XENO's tactics. Xeno is in a starter corp that cannot be wardecced. He is essentially using the protection of novice corps to shield his actions while ensuring his losses do not count against the 24th Crusade's K/D efficiency calculations (of which they are so proud).
Quote:
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
If you bring the name of the fighting Free Captains of the Star Fraction into the discussion of a gutless worm like AMON XENO then you need to expect a level of criticism.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.17 14:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies
How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.08.17 14:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Invelious on 17/08/2009 14:55:56
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies
How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy.
I suppose the 80+ kills including 3 caps to our 9 losses in a single engagement was undertaken in Tuomuta right, i'm not smacking here, but think twice before you open your mouth.
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Invelious
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
Realistically I think that starter corps should kick out members that abuse their membership for such things. It would be fairer on genuine novices who often get tarred with the same brush as the cynical veterans hiding amongst their ranks.
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare
Sadly alliances have little choice in the matter.
If we could have joined the Minmatar Militia, we would have done so.
Let My People Go |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Invelious
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
Realistically I think that starter corps should kick out members that abuse their membership for such things. It would be fairer on genuine novices who often get tarred with the same brush as the cynical veterans hiding amongst their ranks.
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
 I honestly, agree with you on this matter Jade. I thought I would never say that, man, there may still be hope for you yet.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:10:00 -
[19]
Obviously parties that support either side are not 'neutral'. What you mean is that some parties that contribute to either side cannot be shot by one of the militia's without incurring Concord penalties (sentry gun fire and security status adjustments).
There are 'neutral' pod pilots that dedicate themselves to transporting goods for militia members, there are 'neutral' pod pilots that dedicate themselves to scouting, there are 'neutral' pilots that dedicate themselves to exclusively war-deccing militia member corps on one side of the conflict (Star Fraction and Bearns Security spring to mind) There are even non-neutral pod pilots that are a member of the opposing militia while actually aiding the other militia (more commonly called spies).
Even though there is no Concord-legal way to attack such pilots, I do not consider them neutral. I have a famously loyal Star Fraction scout called Sej Ramira explicitly set to red. I do not believe these pilots pretend to be neutral in any way, I believe they make use of the Concord penalties in place to fullfill their role in a more optimal manner.
This is not the fault of the neutral pilots themselves, this is the fault of the binary and simplistic nature of Concord legislation and enforcement. There is no way to appeal to Concord and have pilots declared a party to the conflict if they do not wish to be a party. Even if the evidence is overwhelming.
Of course Sej Ramira could become a member of Star Fraction, but it is more effective for Sej Ramira to operate outside of the Star Fraction alliance, since it gives the pilot both anonimity (which helps scouting) and makes it less vulnerable to hostile retaliation.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
With a limit of three wardecs per a militia corp, you'll find that Concord regulations have plenty more room for non-starter corp pilots to avoid retaliation.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Heartstone on 17/08/2009 16:34:27
Originally by: Merdaneth
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
Who? Seriously I have never heard of this pilot. Nor has the DED by the looks of it.
In any case you are being deliberately ingenuous in what you are saying here. The discussion wasn't about about covert agents of various parties or supporters of said parties providing intelligence on the movement of other entities but on the use the of logistic ships and remote repair platforms by members of the so called training corps to avoid any repercussions of their actions through hostile actions as much as possible.
Where I agree is that CONCORD regulations leave a lot to be desired though.
Heartstone.
---
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BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:29:00 -
[22]
I must apologise for Fail Monkeys false statments, I let my pet of the leash for a bit to long. Ill put him back in the cage now.
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Merdaneth
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
Weak. Even you know providing intelligence & actively getting involved with a fight are two very different things. Is this the depths your propaganda has to stoop to in the vain attempts at reaching high ground?
*ChipMo shakes his head & closes his terminal.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:35:00 -
[24]
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
Mind you, I don't think the point Merdaneth tries to make would have any force even if this 'Sej Ramira' person was known to us. He's trying to make the use of intelligence agents, in whatever corporation, equivalent with remote-repping auxiliaries in corporations exempted from CONCORD war provisions because they are not controlled by capsuleers.
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 17:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
I was mentioning the name from memory. My database registers the pilot as 'Sej Jamira' a member of the 1 person corporation Mors Omnia Vincit, which is a corporation of one pilot since its founding more than a year ago. I have tried to make contact with this pilot several times, but she refused all communication, both over direct and local comm channels.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Mind you, I don't think the point Merdaneth tries to make would have any force even if this 'Sej Ramira' person was known to us. He's trying to make the use of intelligence agents, in whatever corporation, equivalent with remote-repping auxiliaries in corporations exempted from CONCORD war provisions because they are not controlled by capsuleers.
I am responding to your CEO's response. She made mention that there was a crucial difference between persons in starter corps and persons in capsuleer corporations, because the second can be declared war upon. I merely mentioned that this was hardly an essential distinction, since there are plenty other limits placed upon inter-capsuleer corporation war declarations which make declaring was on non-starter corps impractical if not impossible.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
Does 'information gathering' include using third parties to scan down ships and get warp in points?
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
I do believe you are missing mr. Monkey's point. If Star Fraction would employ Sej Jamira to remote-repair their vessels in a war with him, I think he would be just as displeased, regardless of Sej was in a starter corp or not.
I doubt Star Fraction will go on record saying it will never employ out-of-alliance repairs during a battle, since that is something that one cannot garantuee or promise, since one cannot control outside entities. If Sej Jamira would suddenly decide to help her dear friends in Star Fraction by attempting to remote repair a vessel of theirs, Star Fraction has little say in that.
Perhaps the essential problem here is that remote repairing a vessel in combat and at war is currently not classified as an agressive act of war, and does not allow blanket retaliation by war parties nor does it flag the repairing vessel as a active participant in combat. This distinction could (and perhaps should) be more made for such parties. Scouts are more difficult to identify as active participant in a conflict, although their contribution can be just as if not more significant.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 17:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
I was mentioning the name from memory. My database registers the pilot as 'Sej Jamira' a member of the 1 person corporation Mors Omnia Vincit, which is a corporation of one pilot since its founding more than a year ago. I have tried to make contact with this pilot several times, but she refused all communication, both over direct and local comm channels.
I see, from memory, and now you find that the pilot in question is actually in a capsuleer-controlled corporation so the point you were trying to make against Jade is, if it were possible, even more moot.
Originally by: Merdaneth
I am responding to your CEO's response. She made mention that there was a crucial difference between persons in starter corps and persons in capsuleer corporations, because the second can be declared war upon. I merely mentioned that this was hardly an essential distinction, since there are plenty other limits placed upon inter-capsuleer corporation war declarations which make declaring was on non-starter corps impractical if not impossible.
The point is, however, that it is impossible to declare war if pilots are in non-capsuleer controlled corporations. That is the entire point of what Jade Constantine was saying and trying to say it isn't will get you nowhere fast.
Quote:
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
Does 'information gathering' include using third parties to scan down ships and get warp in points?
Yes. Next.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
I do believe you are missing mr. Monkey's point. If Star Fraction would employ Sej Jamira to remote-repair their vessels in a war with him, I think he would be just as displeased, regardless of Sej was in a starter corp or not.
I doubt Star Fraction will go on record saying it will never employ out-of-alliance repairs during a battle, since that is something that one cannot garantuee or promise, since one cannot control outside entities. If Sej Jamira would suddenly decide to help her dear friends in Star Fraction by attempting to remote repair a vessel of theirs, Star Fraction has little say in that.
I am not particularly engaged with Frank Monkey's point. It seems to me impossible to complain about capsuleer-controlled corporations assisting other capsuleer-controlled corporations. Trying to draw lines about the numbers of pilots in corporations and so forth is foolishness. No, I am merely supporting the distinction Jade has talked about regarding the use of pilots in non-capsuleer-controlled corporations where there is a real difference in the steps that can be taken to deal with them.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Perhaps the essential problem here is that remote repairing a vessel in combat and at war is currently not classified as an agressive act of war, and does not allow blanket retaliation by war parties nor does it flag the repairing vessel as a active participant in combat. This distinction could (and perhaps should) be more made for such parties.
On this, we can agree, the current CONCORD-flagging rules were a mess before the War Powers Act came into force, now they are simply incoherent.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 18:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
The point is, however, that it is impossible to declare war if pilots are in non-capsuleer controlled corporations. That is the entire point of what Jade Constantine was saying and trying to say it isn't will get you nowhere fast.
That is not a point, it is a statement of fact. Your CEO was stating this fact to make a point. I believe this point was that invulnerability to war declarations was to her an essential difference. I merely stated that invulnerability to war declarations can be achieved in multiple ways. I merely indicated that having a limit of three war declarations for a militia corporation can easily make it impossible for them to add several one-man or one-woman capsuleer corporations to the list of legal targets.
Even though the name Sej Jamira was quoted from memory, I was perfectly aware that this pilot was not in a starter corp. Do you still disavow any knowledge of this pilot and deny any association of this pilot with the Star Fraction or any of its members?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 19:01:00 -
[28]
Using "neutral" scouts is exactly identical to using "neutral" repair units. Except, unlike the "neutral" repair unit, the scout is never actually going to be flagged by CONCORD as a hostile entity by its aid.
Battles are won or lost before the first shot is fired based on intel and maneuver. A
"neutral" repair unit changes the battle by potentially damaging the opposition's ability to accurately calculate the course of engagement.
A "neutral" scout changes the battle by getting the most accurate picture possible of the opposition, and in doing so helps answer the questions of "How do we engage?" and "Where is the best place to open an engagement?" Both of which are just as vital to victory as a "neutral" repair unit can be.
Personally, I do not employ either, though I have no issue with those who do. It really is no different than any other tactic that involves a pilot who is not actually in a militia affecting the militia. More importantly, the Matari have chosen to make this a war fought by any means necessary from the very first shot, so points of what might or might not represent "honorable" combat are utterly irrelevant.
We are at war with an entity that launched the largest surprise attack in history during peacetime. Given that, I really think that the Matari are beneath any conception of honor and are unworthy of being treated as equals. Those who support Shakor deserve nothing save an agonizing death in the fires of divine retribution.
Honor is only relevant in a contest of equals, the destruction of Shakor's peons is an act more along the lines of putting down rabid slaver hounds.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.17 19:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
We are at war with an entity that launched the largest surprise attack in history during peacetime.
Sorry to bring this up once again but the slavers seem to forget that they attacked and plundered our world first.
Let My People Go |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 19:45:00 -
[30]
That was not in peacetime. It was not after a century of treaties and discourse aimed at forging peace. The first Amarrian-Matari War was a clean and honorable affair opened with a proper declaration of war.
Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
This is a perfectly legitimate view. However, the problem with this view for your argument is that, if we want to talk about original sins, the first sin was the act of your ancestors in turning away from God on the old world and forcing the faithful to abandon the initial creation.
So, either we live in the deeds of the present generation, in which the Matari Shakor loyalists have shown themselves to be backstabbing wretches with no capability to honor a peace treaty. Or we can live in the deeds of the past generations, in which case every action taken against the Matari was legitimized thousands of years ago by your ancestors' devotion to the demonic.
Either way, the Shakorites' fate will be to drown in their own blood in the inevitable Amarrian victory.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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