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Neutral support in the theatre of War

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Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.17 19:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Invelious Edited by: Invelious on 17/08/2009 14:55:56 Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Nur AlHuda fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy. I suppose the 80+ kills including 3 caps to our 9 losses in a single engagement was undertaken in Tuomuta right, i'm not smacking here, but think twice before you open your mouth. Actually, that was a joke. One which it seems you are the only one who was too stupid to recognize and understand. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.17 20:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Havohej on 17/08/2009 20:13:23 Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri That was not in peacetime. It was not after a century of treaties and discourse aimed at forging peace. The first Amarrian-Matari War was a clean and honorable affair opened with a proper declaration of war. No, it wasn't. CONCORD did not exist on the Day of Darkness; in fact, CONCORD wasn't established until ~20 years after the Minmatar Rebellion forced Imperial forces out of Minmatar Space, over 700 years after the Amarr Empire's invasion. The Amarr Empire did not openly declare war and give the Minmatar Empire 24 hours (or even one hour) to prepare. The Amarrian armadas and six slave ships arrived unheralded and with singular purpose to enslave a race which had previously looked upon you as potential friends who could be reasoned with, despite 'rogue elements' from your Empire abducting Minmatar citizens for the slave trade as early as 22355 AD (125 years prior to the Amarrian invasion and conquest of the Minmatar Empire). No amount of lies or flowery rhetoric is going to make us forget the truth of what happened that day; nothing you say is going to make us forgive that attack or the centuries that have passed since. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Amon Xeno	Posted - 2009.08.17 20:20:00 - [33] oh looks like i am really famous now ;) i dont think there is any other milita that has more neutrals aiding them in different ways than the minmatar milita but we all know that those entities who are not worth to be mentioned here are full of fail which is the reason they are interfering with FW in the first place, because they are too weak to actually fight anyone head on by themselfes alliances and corporations that cowardly abuse the flawed wardec mechanics to interfere with FW (mainly on the side of the minmatar) alliances and corporations that are so coward that they only want the benefits of FW and none of the downsides ( like not being able to enter enemy highsec) alliances and corporations that are obiously far interfior to me on their impact in FW, but still aslong as they exist they also make my existance in FW a necessity. and even if they can be wardecced, do you really expect every corp in the milita to wardec any corp and alliance that supports the other side ? even frank monkey can not be that stupid
Garst Tyrell Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.17 20:25:00 - [34] If Amon Xeno goes RR, he is of course flashy to the enemy fleet and should be primaried like any other logistics. The fact that he is allowing himself to go flashy means he is shouldering a risk for his actions that the numerous neutral spies that follow the fleets and ventrillo spies do not. Do I like the idea of neutrals choosing their battles? No more than I like the idea of SF choosing their battles through selective wardecs on corps comprising an alliance. (Dont link me your SF vs militia wardec suggestion petition, Ive already read it and you still want to be exempt from fighting the Caldari while the Gallente would have no such restrictions in helping the minmitar as well as you). As for hiding behind neutral corps, I dont see much being done to change the current system unless all neutral corps forced its members out after a certain time period to special neutral and wardeccable corps. Hoping that CONCORD would actively patrol or have the manpower to determine who or who is not exploiting the rules of engagement is an irrational hope. Neutral RR with enemy flags are the least of the neutrality problem. Take a trip through Tuomuta and wave to "FYIIAMASPY" who is permanantly parked on the kamela gate in his ibis. I wish I could say he was the only one. At least -DARK had the decency to have cloaked and fully flashy members of their corp track fleets as proper scouts. As for vent spies I have never, not even once, used a vent spy or the intel from a vent spy in my fleets. Nothing was said over vent. Nothing was sent to me in a private convo. Nothing was sent to me through any other conceivable method of conversation. PIE even has rules against such tactics. I realize this thread is not about me or my hatred of vent spies. However since it was brought up earlier in general conversation and I find the idea of Amarr vent spies both laughable and offensive, I will make the following points: In my months of flying with the 24th IC during all time zones and FC's, small and large fleets, capital and down, I have never once knowingly received intel from an Amarr vent spy or even heard one refrenced. In my months of flying with the 24th IC, minmitar vent spies are the norm and from what I have seen, are certainly real threats and not mere paranoid fantasy. You probably won't believe me. That's fine. I understand that the Tyrant's forces and the pirates that assist them need to use every edge they feel they have to try and even the battlefield. When their fleets and capitals continue to go down in flames despite such "advantages" I can only shake my head in disgust. "I long for death, not because I seek peace, but because I seek the war eternal"
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.08.17 21:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors. I'm saying that the minmatar attack was not "for no reason" or "out of the blue". *Let My People Go*
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.17 21:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Havohej CONCORD did not exist on the Day of Darkness; The Day of Darkness is a mythological explanation of what happened to your people. Not a factual one. It is chock full of the sorts of devises used by oral tradition to make a story more dramatic. The biggest storm in Matari history. The Amarrians coming in exactly one massive ship per planet. It is all such a perfect story, and utterly unbelievable. Or do you really think that we operate with such a blatantly absurd invasion plan? Quote: in fact, CONCORD wasn't established until ~20 years after the Minmatar Rebellion forced Imperial forces out of Minmatar Space, over 700 years after the Amarr Empire's invasion. What a world we live in when people believe that the only way to properly and openly declare war is through CONCORD. People have been declaring just and unjust wars for thousands of years. Quote: The Amarr Empire did not openly declare war and give the Minmatar Empire 24 hours (or even one hour) to prepare. The Amarrian armadas and six slave ships arrived unheralded and with singular purpose to enslave a race which had previously looked upon you as potential friends who could be reasoned with. Nice story. In one version of the myth, Amarr were well known to the Matari and suddenly backstabbed them. In the other, Amarr came out of nowhere with six slave ships and made first contact in blood and slaves. Which is it? You really cannot have it both ways here. Amarr came in with a proper declaration of war for fully justified reasons ranging from the actions of their ancestors on the home world to the treatment of Amarrian converts by the barbaric religions of Matar. Abel Jarek was hardly the first martyred Matari convert, after all. The Nefantir Saints are a testament to this. Quote: No amount of lies or flowery rhetoric is going to make us forget the truth of what happened that day; nothing you say is going to make us forgive that attack or the centuries that have passed since. You are using real historical records rather than oral myths created to explain the total defeat of the Matari in terms that the survivors could understand. Not an especially good reason for burning your treaties with Amarr signed within the last century. But let us play the "Blame passes from generation to generation" game. Certainly, it is a very Amarrian way of thinking. Much of our theology of slavery is based upon this very belief. You see, an ancestor of the Matari killed and exiled Amarrians long before the Amarrians ever met the Matari on Matar. This means that the First Amarrian-Matari War was justified by the same logic used to support the more recent Matari breaches of treaties, regardless of what other reasons were used. Yet, we broke with that theology for a time to attempt to offer your people peace. And in return, you proved that, like your distant ancestors, you cannot be trusted so long as you are free. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.17 21:51:00 - [37] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 17/08/2009 21:51:53 Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors. I'm saying that the minmatar attack was not "for no reason" or "out of the blue". No, but even by your logic it still broke every treaty that the Matari have signed for the past century. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Scheherazade Miewong	Posted - 2009.08.17 22:18:00 - [38] Edited by: Scheherazade Miewong on 17/08/2009 22:19:41
Lord Maximullis Amarr Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.17 22:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri No, but even by your logic it still broke every treaty that the Matari have signed for the past century. No. The attack was started mainly by the Thukkers who were at the time not members of the republic and had signed no treaties with the Empire. Also...matari are still enslaved within the empire how could they have signed any treaties admiral? If your God does exist. The great rebellion, your defeat at the hands of the jovians and your failure to defeat the TLF shows that he does not take sides.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.17 23:26:00 - [40] My opinion, such as it is, is that neutrals that hide in starter corps and remote rep their allies are cowardly, it smacks of fear for oneÆs enemies. Of course nothing is ôout of boundsö if you have no moral fiber. The same is true for those who do not respect duels or disconnect their pod interface to warp out quicker when confronted by a surprise enemy fleets and then reconnected and disconnect to avoid probing. It is all spineless simpering failure, and if one is alright with that then go right ahead. In the end such antics do not avail you success and more often than not is indicative of a failure in fortitude on the part of the pilot. Weak necked pilots show a likely lack to stay in the fight when times are bleak, when they are needed most. CanÆt trust them. In addition, morally bankrupt prosecution of war lowers your honor and standing politically. You become like the soul vacuuming pirates who raid and plunder anything weak and run like sniveling dogs from even the slightest threat. Amon Xeno is of course a piglet who hides his losses from the record keepers of the Militia. Those that fly with him are tainted by association as profiteers making gains on low tactics. But then it isnÆt like the 24th crusade has made any claims that they are morally superior to their foes, right? Moral fiber has tangible benefit and so many ôleadersö seem to not understand this. Reputation is just as important as skill. If you are reviled as pathetic your corporation will wither. That is my opinion, IÆm sure the line on craven acts is drawn lower by some and higher by others.
TorrusTron Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.08.18 00:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Frank Monkey Originally by: TorrusTron Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49 silly link. same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them. Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus. Name it and I am your monkey. Frank [p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out] Sure 1v1 battleships ---------------------------- Wait here i will go for help
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.18 01:58:00 - [42] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri The Day of Darkness is a mythological explanation of what happened to your people. Not a factual one. The Thukker-Sebiestor visibly struggles to maintain his composure. I begin to understand the mania your people live by. The Day of Darkness is what my people - the Minmatar People - call the day when six slave ships escorted by a vast armada of Amarrian warships we could not hope to stand against entered the Pator system and fanned out to the Minmatar Empire's most populous worlds and began to slaughter and enslave our tribes. The Day of Darkness most certainly happened. To say that it didn't is like to say that no Caldari carrier ever carried out a suicide attack on a Gallente world. It's like saying that Noir did not crash a mothership into a station in Malkalen. "Not a factual one..." The rest of your propaganda isn't worth my time. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer*
Frank Monkey Gallente Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes	Posted - 2009.08.18 10:08:00 - [43] Originally by: TorrusTron Originally by: Frank Monkey Originally by: TorrusTron Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49 silly link. same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them. Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus. Name it and I am your monkey. Frank [p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out] Sure 1v1 battleships Lovely job, details being sent through internal comms. Frank ...of Stevie Sparkle and the Supersonic Love Commandoes... Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.08.18 12:03:00 - [44] I mean when he is flashy to you what prevents you from shooting on him? Is he striking fear to your hearts and make your knees weak and grasps for air in amazment that you cant hit the fire button and shoot? Couse realy is beyond me how hard is to kill a flashy target when you are in fleet.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri But let us play the "Blame passes from generation to generation" game. Certainly, it is a very Amarrian way of thinking. Much of our theology of slavery is based upon this very belief. You see, an ancestor of the Matari killed and exiled Amarrians long before the Amarrians ever met the Matari on Matar. This means that the First Amarrian-Matari War was justified by the same logic used to support the more recent Matari breaches of treaties, regardless of what other reasons were used. Yet, we broke with that theology for a time to attempt to offer your people peace. And in return, you proved that, like your distant ancestors, you cannot be trusted so long as you are free. I assume you are attempting to be ironic with your claim about a Minmatar ancestor killing and exiling Amarrians long before the Amarr met the Minmatar. I certainly know of no firm basis for the claim. I don't consider the rantings of various heretics, heterodox cults and the occasional demented preacher actually found useful by the Amarr theocracy to be evidence, that is for sure. I imagine the gambit here is to say that certain legends and myths, or as you might say 'theology', provide a basis and therefore it is just as valid a justification as the Minmatar Day of Darkness that you claim to be 'mythological'. Hence all this nonsense about a 'declared war' and spurious justifications on the grounds of 'actions of their ancestors on the home world' (which 'home world' would that be?) and the alleged 'martyrdom' of Nefantar Saints, and all the rest of it. Well, you can swap rather shaky history, legend, myth and upliftng religious tales with Havohej all you like, Gaven Lok'ri, it won't avail you much in your argument about who started the war. You see, there's a problem for you and that problem is what is not myth. That problem is what is fact and the fact is that the war never ended. You can talk about treaties and CONCORD and what a foolish bunch of Minmatar politicians may or may not have agreed to. In the end, all that deals only with relations between two more or less illegitimate governments. Your own, a vile tyranny based on superstition and fear, and the Minmatar Republic as was, a corrupted and bizarre attempt to construct a simulacrum of Gallentean sham democracy. The Amarr Empire continued the war with the Minmatar people by the simple act of continuing to hold millions upon millions of Minmatar as slaves. One doesn't even need to argue about whether slaving expeditions continued after the so-called 'treaty' or not. We both know they did. You will dismiss them as rogue. It doesn't matter, the Amarr Empire kept vast numbers of the Minmatar enslaved and by doing so continued the war. Slavery is violence. It is an essential feature of the very act of keeping a slave. It is by force to render a sentient being nothing more than a piece of property, to be disposed of as the slaver wills. When this is done to one individual it is tantamount to murder. When it is done to millions upon millions of people who can seriously deny it is war? As you said earlier: "What a world we live in when people believe that the only way to properly and openly declare war is through CONCORD. People have been declaring just and unjust wars for thousands of years." Yes indeed, Gaven Lok'ri, yes indeed. The war of enslavement never ended and the Elder Fleet incursions were a perfectly legitimate use of violence against those who continued to prosecute that evil war. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Lord Maximullis Amarr Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:23:00 - [46] Edited by: Lord Maximullis on 18/08/2009 16:24:12 Mr Cosmopolite is correct. The slave wars have been fought since the day of darkness itself. The great rebellion was simply a battle in that war, albiet a grand and pivotal battle. I do not belive that there can be any peaceful solution to the war. Until we sit in the light of the fires of vengence that will one day be lit on Amarr. Then and only then will the people of the cluster be satisfied in the knowledge that the cancer of religious zealotry and fanaticism that is the Empire has been burned out. It will be a good day, when they come to see the cost of hubris
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:03:00 - [47] Mr. Bliss, is 'hiding' from enemies cowardice? Are just some forms of hiding cowardice? Hiding with cloaks, hiding in stations, hiding in other corporations, hiding behind superior numbers, etc. etc.? Why the obsession with courage and cowardice? When I hear Star Fraction pilots as yourself (and pilots like Frank Monkey) denouncing certain tactics as 'cowardly' all I see is frustration. I see pilots unable to dictate terms of the engagement and accuse their opponent of cowardice because of it. Most pilots engage when they feel they have the advantage, and avoid combat otherwise. Pilots will also utilize a wide variety of strategies to create an advantage for themselves. From most pilots I've met in my tenure as capsuleer, Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about. They rarely engage unless they have a clear advantage and avoid combat (=hide) otherwise. Of course, perhaps this is testament to an excellent ability of Star Fraction pilots to correctly judge the situation. You may call the Star Fraction tendency to avoid disadvantageous combat situations (both tactically but also strategically) cowardice or wisdom, depending on your point of view. Any debate about if the greater coward is the one that employs carriers within docking range or one that uses out-of-corp repair allies is frankly pretty pointless. And to consider such people 'morally bankrupt' is an oddity. I believe there are far better indications of moral integrity than such really small issues under discussion here. The fact that you use so big a term merely indicates your high level of frustration in the face of such tactics. It doesn't matter much to me either way, it only matters to me insofar Star Fraction is able to disrupt my own operations, which, fortunately, has been limited. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Merdaneth Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about. You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.19 15:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Merdaneth Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about. You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there. You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.19 16:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Jade Constantine You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there. You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky. Oh the sublime irony of an Amarrian Zealot saying this is almost too much to bear. Heartstone. ---
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.19 19:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Rodj Blake You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky. Aye, serious risk of falling asleep. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.19 19:51:00 - [52] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 19/08/2009 19:52:33 Originally by: Merdaneth Mr. Bliss, is 'hiding' from enemies cowardice? right well I did say that others draw their line in the sand is different places. in my opinion hiding in a starter corp is cowardice...and it is. Originally by: Merdaneth When I hear Star Fraction pilots as yourself denouncing certain tactics as 'cowardly' all I see is frustration. I've always been on the record as disapproving of involvement of starter corps and in-space pod disconnections as tactics in the theater of war. It is cowardice, and cowardice frustrates me because I dislike wasting my time stomping after mice. doesn't effect my combat, and indeed makes me more likely to prosecute war on these milk-boys...weakness like that just activates my predatory instinct. Originally by: Merdaneth Most pilots engage when they feel they have the advantage, and avoid combat otherwise. this is true, but not comparable . Also I'll always fight if the odds are even close, unlike "most". you have to be careful painting every Star Fraction pilot with the same brush. The caliber of my suicidal rage while in space is well documented, so saying pilots such as myself risk-averse or only fight when they have a clear advantage prove the propaganda being spoken. Respect where it is Due, everyone knows that my failing in combat is an over eagerness to fly down the throat of my opposition. So check your attempts to spin, they backfire. Originally by: Merdaneth From most pilots I've met in my tenure as capsuleer, Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about. hmmm well when I was fighting for the Empire against Star Fraction off and on for years I'd have to say that some previous pilots were cowardly pirate types. They have since moved on to piracy or goonswarm. This current crop are full of blood lust and not afraid to take risk. In general I will say that Star Fraction is not a risk-averse corporation. but then I have seen them both from the Amarr side and now from the inside. You lack this additional experience and only know them as the boogey men who appear, murder your fellows and then move off to inflict carnage somewhere else. don't mistake skill and success for risk-aversion. Originally by: Merdaneth Any debate about if the greater coward ... is frankly pretty pointless. so true. amon xeno is going to keep at it and the 24th crusade is going to keep gaining benefit from both their sad carrier games and this neutral remote rep web as to gain from the incorrect kill posting. there is no point in "debating" but I was merely sharing my opinion. I do not want to debate something that is an obvious truth. you obviously draw your line very low in the sand as you defend and benefit from these nasty little piglets in your crusade. Anything for success eh? But you know what, if that works for you then I don't see any reason for you to rise above it. I don't mind the remote rep bit as it often leads to massive death for the enemy as their ships are flagged. Its pathetic and cowardly, but not all together unbeatable. what I will continue to rage about is pod disconections, reconnections and then disconnections over and over. I defy you to support that behavior, only culls and swine do that.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.19 22:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Also I'll always fight if the odds are even close, unlike "most". you have to be careful painting every Star Fraction pilot with the same brush. The caliber of my suicidal rage while in space is well documented, so saying pilots such as myself risk-averse or only fight when they have a clear advantage prove the propaganda being spoken. Respect where it is Due, everyone knows that my failing in combat is an over eagerness to fly down the throat of my opposition. So check your attempts to spin, they backfire. There is no doubt that Star Fraction pilots differ in both skill and eagerness to engage. I don't believe we've met in space often enough for me to judge your position on that spectrum. Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss In general I will say that Star Fraction is not a risk-averse corporation. I agree. I merely made a comparative judgement in relation to the people I fight the most often, the Tribal Liberation Force. I do not claim that Star Fraction, in comparison to your average capsuleer, is risk averse. Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss You lack this additional experience and only know them as the boogey men who appear, murder your fellows and then move off to inflict carnage somewhere else. don't mistake skill and success for risk-aversion. That was my point. You can call risk-aversion wisdom or ability to learn fast from previous mistakes just as easily. Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss you obviously draw your line very low in the sand as you defend and benefit from these nasty little piglets in your crusade. Anything for success eh? 1. I have never made statements about my personal feelings about these and other types of hiding tactics anywhere in my responses. I have not drawn any lines. I simply feel no need to define my 'lines' in a public debate and I think using one's own lines to throw accusation of cowardice at your enemies is pretty pointless. 2. Being Amarr is about the methods more than the results. A victory at the cost of my principles is worse than defeat. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.08.20 05:58:00 - [54] This all sounds like I need to hop in my Scimitar and x up for some fleets. See you guys on the battlefield o/
Dame Death Minmatar The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:03:00 - [55] Originally by: Kazzzi This all sounds like I need to hop in my Scimitar and x up for some fleets. See you guys on the battlefield o/ I think thats the first smart thing I've ever heard you say Kazzzi now where did I put that gurdain. Eliza disapears towards the docking bay. Logs of a Brutor
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:27:00 - [56] so we aren't actually arguing about anything then Merdaneth, why play the Devil's Advocate if you don't agree with the cravens? Originally by: Merdaneth 2. Being Amarr is about the methods more than the results. A victory at the cost of my principles is worse than defeat. that is what I thought, yet i keep seeing this defense of allied piglets from so many Amarr...
Frank Monkey Gallente Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:45:00 - [57] Flying and FIGHTING/REPPING under neutral colours in a WAR is more than simply a ruse de guerre. Sure it will win you engagements, but you could do the same by dishonouring duels. I could do that, but I don't. I don't do it for purely selfish reasons. It would detract from my victories and render them meaningless. In my mind I would say "well why did you bother, YOU won nothing". Maybe its just me. Maybe I am wrong and the "anything to win, no matter how low, is acceptable" people are right. Its just not me. To quote from a good friend of mine "and what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his own soul" Frank ...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes... Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.08.20 23:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Frank Monkey Flying and FIGHTING/REPPING under neutral colours in a WAR is more than simply a ruse de guerre. Sure it will win you engagements, but you could do the same by dishonouring duels. I could do that, but I don't. I don't do it for purely selfish reasons. It would detract from my victories and render them meaningless. In my mind I would say "well why did you bother, YOU won nothing". Maybe its just me. Maybe I am wrong and the "anything to win, no matter how low, is acceptable" people are right. Its just not me. To quote from a good friend of mine "and what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his own soul" Frank ...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes... With all of that said, are you ok with SF helping the minmatar militia?
lucifers widow 3rd Kador lancers	Posted - 2009.08.21 07:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Invelious With all of that said, are you ok with SF helping the minmatar militia? But didn't you know that is diferent, I only know cause they keep saying it is, no idea why it should be diferent but it is !
Frank Monkey Gallente Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes	Posted - 2009.08.21 08:57:00 - [60] Originally by: Invelious words To be fair Invelious I can at least see your point of view, if not wholly agree with it. Practically all the Minmatar Fleet Commanders are fools, so it is no surprise to me that they must resort to low tactics. As far as Star Fraction goes, I have found them individually to be both courageous and honourable in my personal dealings with them. However personally I have never relied or availed of ANY neutral support in ANY of my engagements with the Amarr or Caldari. Neither have any fleets I have led in either the Caldari War or the Amarr War I have fought in. If ANYONE wishes to put a lie to those statements then please provide evidence. Frank ...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes... Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal

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