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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 09:34:00 -
[1]
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 09:38:00 -
[2]
Welcome to 9 months ago.
Heartstone.
---
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Leopold Caine
Amarr
Ordo Nigrorum Susurri
Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.08.17 11:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Not that I wish to teach you on how are usually logistics cruisers operating, but shouldn't you be taking into account what they are supposed to be doing, which is keeping other ships in the fleet alive?
Now, a simple killboard wouldn't actually be showing the actual efficiency of a logistics pilot then, would it?
Oh, and we could almost get over this little mistake in your logic if someone actually cared. Named and shamed? Pull yourself together, mr. Monkey. This kinds of primitive chest pounding attempts are really neither impressive nor amusing.
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Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:07:00 -
[4]
I was not in FW from a day one in the militia but i can say the neutrals were involved since the war started on every side.
Neutrals checking local, neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare, spies on ventrilo, fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies, propaganda, desinformation, etc.
Im 100% sure no side wil give up their advantages and aces easily and first.
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Leopold Caine
Not that I wish to teach you on how are usually logistics cruisers operating, but shouldn't you be taking into account what they are supposed to be doing, which is keeping other ships in the fleet alive?
Now, a simple killboard wouldn't actually be showing the actual efficiency of a logistics pilot then, would it?
Oh, and we could almost get over this little mistake in your logic if someone actually cared. Named and shamed? Pull yourself together, mr. Monkey. This kinds of primitive chest pounding attempts are really neither impressive nor amusing.
I have had a look at the combat databases Leo and you are not to be teaching anybody anything until you get out of the pilot training schools.
I obviously don't question the use of remote repair technology on the battlefield. The cowardly use of repair pilots who enter and actively participate in actions under the banner of neutrality is the equivalent of using ambulances to ferry military hardware.
It is an anathema to a combat pilot and the reserve of the coward.
My colours are nailed to the mast.
Find some courage or find a hole to crawl into.
Frank
..Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:39:00 -
[6]
Again frank i can't belive you are still alive, please learn about YOUR militia first and the NUETRAL entities working on YOUR behalf before you start your ranting again. Silly little Fail monkey always getting it wrong. I think i might keep you as a pet.
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TorrusTron
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
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Wait here i will go for help |
Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
It doesn't really surprise me that BattleFAIL Custard doesn't read too well. In the OP I clearly stated, for the readers among you, that I bemoaned the use by ANY side of neutrals in active engagements, in whatever role. This can be seen above. I even welcomed the opportunity for the Amarr to name and shame the Minmatar friendly neutral repair pilot that I referred to.
However, all this is lost on simple-minded BattleFAIL Crumpet, who misses no opportunity to convey his deep, deep stupidity.
BattleFAIL mate, if you have nothing to say, say nothing. Now you for instance have NOTHING to say and even worse for the rest of us, you say even that too loudly.
Now go back to organising another 60 pilot meat shield to surround and protect a pathetic, needy and ultimately weak pilot like yourself.
Frank [combat pilot]
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari
Burning Avarice
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Posted - 2009.08.17 12:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
And your point is? This is war, every tactic is a valid tactic that has been shown by both sides. Both sides use neutal pilots to do logistics and scouting and im sure many other things that people dislike. I would not call them cowards, infact it is very smart. Only a fool would dismiss an advantage because of 'cowadice'.
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards, im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
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Sahriah Bloodstone
Burning Avarice
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Amarr militia has been using neutral support for remote repping war ships in the combat zone.
The pilot Amon Xeno has been spotted on occassions too numerous to mention doing this.
Amon Xeno has 32 losses on the Minmatar combat database and no kills. Of those ships destroyed, half are warships and half are logistics support. Pathetic.
Named and shamed, AMON XENO.
Elements in the Minmatar militia have been pulling the same cowardly stunt with a pilot called Queen something or other. [Perhaps Amarr can name and shame this pilot.]
Have the guts to fight the war or not.
This neutral pretense is just pathetic.
Grow a pair you cowards.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
And your point is? This is war, every tactic is a valid tactic that has been shown by both sides. Both sides use neutal pilots to do logistics and scouting and im sure many other things that people dislike. I would not call them cowards, infact it is very smart. Only a fool would dismiss an advantage because of 'cowadice'.
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards, im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
I didn't accuse anyone of 'cowadice'.
I accused them of 'cowardice'.
Is that 'cowadice' something to do with those creatures of the bovine family?
In which case I have to disagree because most of the cowards I know are sheep and not cows.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 17/08/2009 13:04:03
If my information is right this Amon Xeno is directly associated with Nephilim Xeno, a well known Amarr Militia pilot. Interference with neutrals is not on the CONCORD sanctionized list of factional warfare. To use tactics like that may be rational and reasonable like it is rational and reasonable to use hospital ships as weapon or troup transporters. It is reasonable like using civilists, women, children and the aged as hostages to keep the warriors from the frontline. What comes next? Killercommandos that shoot the children in the basic school to scare away their parents from fighting? Is this the Amarr we are fighting?
If it is, expect no mercy when we win. And we will. Tactics like this lose a war. It was always like that. I don't tell anybody what he should do or not. But you will suffer the consequences of that. History gives an answer to those kind of "warriors".
But it is without honor. It is warfare on the shoulders of those who should be protected. If this is the way the Amarr Militia is fighting, there is no reason to fight anymore. You will lose your honorable warriors by tactics like this until only those without morale, without ethics are left.
And those who use these tactics befudge the honor of the warriors that try to keep the civilians out of the line of fire.
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FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: TorrusTron
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus.
Name it and I am your monkey.
Frank
[p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out]
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 13:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Besides if you called neutrals pathetic cowards you could also apply that term to Star faction, and before you say it, yes i know they are fighting and no i don't believe their cowards ...
Star Fraction.
Quote:
... im just saying that anyone with your ways of thinking can apply the same thing to SF because they could have left their alliance and entered all their corps properly into the war, instead they only choose to dec 3 corps, one could say thats cowadice, but i believe it was a reasonably smart thing to do given the tactical advantages it gives them.
There is a big difference between Star Fraction's intervention and AMON XENO's tactics. Xeno is in a starter corp that cannot be wardecced. He is essentially using the protection of novice corps to shield his actions while ensuring his losses do not count against the 24th Crusade's K/D efficiency calculations (of which they are so proud).
Quote:
And for gods sake im using SF as an example so please don't start chest beating over it
If you bring the name of the fighting Free Captains of the Star Fraction into the discussion of a gutless worm like AMON XENO then you need to expect a level of criticism.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.17 14:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies
How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.08.17 14:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Invelious on 17/08/2009 14:55:56
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies
How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy.
I suppose the 80+ kills including 3 caps to our 9 losses in a single engagement was undertaken in Tuomuta right, i'm not smacking here, but think twice before you open your mouth.
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Invelious
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
Realistically I think that starter corps should kick out members that abuse their membership for such things. It would be fairer on genuine novices who often get tarred with the same brush as the cynical veterans hiding amongst their ranks.
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare
Sadly alliances have little choice in the matter.
If we could have joined the Minmatar Militia, we would have done so.
Let My People Go |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.08.17 15:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Invelious
Sorry frank but in every war there is neutrality, what you have to ask yourself is, are they really neutral if they are helping your enemy? I think not, you see a neutral helping a Amarr, set them red, I see a neut helping the mins, I set them red. plan and simply. Then kill them when you can.
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
Realistically I think that starter corps should kick out members that abuse their membership for such things. It would be fairer on genuine novices who often get tarred with the same brush as the cynical veterans hiding amongst their ranks.
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
 I honestly, agree with you on this matter Jade. I thought I would never say that, man, there may still be hope for you yet.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:10:00 -
[19]
Obviously parties that support either side are not 'neutral'. What you mean is that some parties that contribute to either side cannot be shot by one of the militia's without incurring Concord penalties (sentry gun fire and security status adjustments).
There are 'neutral' pod pilots that dedicate themselves to transporting goods for militia members, there are 'neutral' pod pilots that dedicate themselves to scouting, there are 'neutral' pilots that dedicate themselves to exclusively war-deccing militia member corps on one side of the conflict (Star Fraction and Bearns Security spring to mind) There are even non-neutral pod pilots that are a member of the opposing militia while actually aiding the other militia (more commonly called spies).
Even though there is no Concord-legal way to attack such pilots, I do not consider them neutral. I have a famously loyal Star Fraction scout called Sej Ramira explicitly set to red. I do not believe these pilots pretend to be neutral in any way, I believe they make use of the Concord penalties in place to fullfill their role in a more optimal manner.
This is not the fault of the neutral pilots themselves, this is the fault of the binary and simplistic nature of Concord legislation and enforcement. There is no way to appeal to Concord and have pilots declared a party to the conflict if they do not wish to be a party. Even if the evidence is overwhelming.
Of course Sej Ramira could become a member of Star Fraction, but it is more effective for Sej Ramira to operate outside of the Star Fraction alliance, since it gives the pilot both anonimity (which helps scouting) and makes it less vulnerable to hostile retaliation.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well there's a difference between out of corp/alliance/militia repping and starter corp repping. The former can be addressed by preemptive wardecs while the latter is protected by flying amongst the ranks of new pilots without risk of wardec and benefiting from confused standings and such.
With a limit of three wardecs per a militia corp, you'll find that Concord regulations have plenty more room for non-starter corp pilots to avoid retaliation.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Either which way it is a low tactic and not one that attracts much respect from anyone.
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Heartstone on 17/08/2009 16:34:27
Originally by: Merdaneth
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
Who? Seriously I have never heard of this pilot. Nor has the DED by the looks of it.
In any case you are being deliberately ingenuous in what you are saying here. The discussion wasn't about about covert agents of various parties or supporters of said parties providing intelligence on the movement of other entities but on the use the of logistic ships and remote repair platforms by members of the so called training corps to avoid any repercussions of their actions through hostile actions as much as possible.
Where I agree is that CONCORD regulations leave a lot to be desired though.
Heartstone.
---
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BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:29:00 -
[22]
I must apologise for Fail Monkeys false statments, I let my pet of the leash for a bit to long. Ill put him back in the cage now.
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Merdaneth
In that case, I would suggest you cease to employ Sej Ramira as an out-of-alliance SF scout.
Weak. Even you know providing intelligence & actively getting involved with a fight are two very different things. Is this the depths your propaganda has to stoop to in the vain attempts at reaching high ground?
*ChipMo shakes his head & closes his terminal.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 16:35:00 -
[24]
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
Mind you, I don't think the point Merdaneth tries to make would have any force even if this 'Sej Ramira' person was known to us. He's trying to make the use of intelligence agents, in whatever corporation, equivalent with remote-repping auxiliaries in corporations exempted from CONCORD war provisions because they are not controlled by capsuleers.
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 17:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
I was mentioning the name from memory. My database registers the pilot as 'Sej Jamira' a member of the 1 person corporation Mors Omnia Vincit, which is a corporation of one pilot since its founding more than a year ago. I have tried to make contact with this pilot several times, but she refused all communication, both over direct and local comm channels.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Mind you, I don't think the point Merdaneth tries to make would have any force even if this 'Sej Ramira' person was known to us. He's trying to make the use of intelligence agents, in whatever corporation, equivalent with remote-repping auxiliaries in corporations exempted from CONCORD war provisions because they are not controlled by capsuleers.
I am responding to your CEO's response. She made mention that there was a crucial difference between persons in starter corps and persons in capsuleer corporations, because the second can be declared war upon. I merely mentioned that this was hardly an essential distinction, since there are plenty other limits placed upon inter-capsuleer corporation war declarations which make declaring was on non-starter corps impractical if not impossible.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
Does 'information gathering' include using third parties to scan down ships and get warp in points?
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
I do believe you are missing mr. Monkey's point. If Star Fraction would employ Sej Jamira to remote-repair their vessels in a war with him, I think he would be just as displeased, regardless of Sej was in a starter corp or not.
I doubt Star Fraction will go on record saying it will never employ out-of-alliance repairs during a battle, since that is something that one cannot garantuee or promise, since one cannot control outside entities. If Sej Jamira would suddenly decide to help her dear friends in Star Fraction by attempting to remote repair a vessel of theirs, Star Fraction has little say in that.
Perhaps the essential problem here is that remote repairing a vessel in combat and at war is currently not classified as an agressive act of war, and does not allow blanket retaliation by war parties nor does it flag the repairing vessel as a active participant in combat. This distinction could (and perhaps should) be more made for such parties. Scouts are more difficult to identify as active participant in a conflict, although their contribution can be just as if not more significant.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 17:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I have never heard of 'Sej Ramira' either.
I was mentioning the name from memory. My database registers the pilot as 'Sej Jamira' a member of the 1 person corporation Mors Omnia Vincit, which is a corporation of one pilot since its founding more than a year ago. I have tried to make contact with this pilot several times, but she refused all communication, both over direct and local comm channels.
I see, from memory, and now you find that the pilot in question is actually in a capsuleer-controlled corporation so the point you were trying to make against Jade is, if it were possible, even more moot.
Originally by: Merdaneth
I am responding to your CEO's response. She made mention that there was a crucial difference between persons in starter corps and persons in capsuleer corporations, because the second can be declared war upon. I merely mentioned that this was hardly an essential distinction, since there are plenty other limits placed upon inter-capsuleer corporation war declarations which make declaring was on non-starter corps impractical if not impossible.
The point is, however, that it is impossible to declare war if pilots are in non-capsuleer controlled corporations. That is the entire point of what Jade Constantine was saying and trying to say it isn't will get you nowhere fast.
Quote:
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Of course, if Merdaneth wants to consider these equivalent that is up to him. The Star Fraction doesn't and is long on record as stating that it will use any assets it pleases for the purposes of information-gathering.
Does 'information gathering' include using third parties to scan down ships and get warp in points?
Yes. Next.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
When it comes to combat in space, we'll rely on our own pilots and any allies in capsuleer-controlled corporations and alliances.
I do believe you are missing mr. Monkey's point. If Star Fraction would employ Sej Jamira to remote-repair their vessels in a war with him, I think he would be just as displeased, regardless of Sej was in a starter corp or not.
I doubt Star Fraction will go on record saying it will never employ out-of-alliance repairs during a battle, since that is something that one cannot garantuee or promise, since one cannot control outside entities. If Sej Jamira would suddenly decide to help her dear friends in Star Fraction by attempting to remote repair a vessel of theirs, Star Fraction has little say in that.
I am not particularly engaged with Frank Monkey's point. It seems to me impossible to complain about capsuleer-controlled corporations assisting other capsuleer-controlled corporations. Trying to draw lines about the numbers of pilots in corporations and so forth is foolishness. No, I am merely supporting the distinction Jade has talked about regarding the use of pilots in non-capsuleer-controlled corporations where there is a real difference in the steps that can be taken to deal with them.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Perhaps the essential problem here is that remote repairing a vessel in combat and at war is currently not classified as an agressive act of war, and does not allow blanket retaliation by war parties nor does it flag the repairing vessel as a active participant in combat. This distinction could (and perhaps should) be more made for such parties.
On this, we can agree, the current CONCORD-flagging rules were a mess before the War Powers Act came into force, now they are simply incoherent.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 18:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
The point is, however, that it is impossible to declare war if pilots are in non-capsuleer controlled corporations. That is the entire point of what Jade Constantine was saying and trying to say it isn't will get you nowhere fast.
That is not a point, it is a statement of fact. Your CEO was stating this fact to make a point. I believe this point was that invulnerability to war declarations was to her an essential difference. I merely stated that invulnerability to war declarations can be achieved in multiple ways. I merely indicated that having a limit of three war declarations for a militia corporation can easily make it impossible for them to add several one-man or one-woman capsuleer corporations to the list of legal targets.
Even though the name Sej Jamira was quoted from memory, I was perfectly aware that this pilot was not in a starter corp. Do you still disavow any knowledge of this pilot and deny any association of this pilot with the Star Fraction or any of its members?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 19:01:00 -
[28]
Using "neutral" scouts is exactly identical to using "neutral" repair units. Except, unlike the "neutral" repair unit, the scout is never actually going to be flagged by CONCORD as a hostile entity by its aid.
Battles are won or lost before the first shot is fired based on intel and maneuver. A
"neutral" repair unit changes the battle by potentially damaging the opposition's ability to accurately calculate the course of engagement.
A "neutral" scout changes the battle by getting the most accurate picture possible of the opposition, and in doing so helps answer the questions of "How do we engage?" and "Where is the best place to open an engagement?" Both of which are just as vital to victory as a "neutral" repair unit can be.
Personally, I do not employ either, though I have no issue with those who do. It really is no different than any other tactic that involves a pilot who is not actually in a militia affecting the militia. More importantly, the Matari have chosen to make this a war fought by any means necessary from the very first shot, so points of what might or might not represent "honorable" combat are utterly irrelevant.
We are at war with an entity that launched the largest surprise attack in history during peacetime. Given that, I really think that the Matari are beneath any conception of honor and are unworthy of being treated as equals. Those who support Shakor deserve nothing save an agonizing death in the fires of divine retribution.
Honor is only relevant in a contest of equals, the destruction of Shakor's peons is an act more along the lines of putting down rabid slaver hounds.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.08.17 19:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
We are at war with an entity that launched the largest surprise attack in history during peacetime.
Sorry to bring this up once again but the slavers seem to forget that they attacked and plundered our world first.
Let My People Go |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.17 19:45:00 -
[30]
That was not in peacetime. It was not after a century of treaties and discourse aimed at forging peace. The first Amarrian-Matari War was a clean and honorable affair opened with a proper declaration of war.
Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
This is a perfectly legitimate view. However, the problem with this view for your argument is that, if we want to talk about original sins, the first sin was the act of your ancestors in turning away from God on the old world and forcing the faithful to abandon the initial creation.
So, either we live in the deeds of the present generation, in which the Matari Shakor loyalists have shown themselves to be backstabbing wretches with no capability to honor a peace treaty. Or we can live in the deeds of the past generations, in which case every action taken against the Matari was legitimized thousands of years ago by your ancestors' devotion to the demonic.
Either way, the Shakorites' fate will be to drown in their own blood in the inevitable Amarrian victory.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.17 19:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Invelious
Edited by: Invelious on 17/08/2009 14:55:56
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
fleet commanders leading their fleets directly to enemies
How else do you expect to get a fight? By leading your fleets into Tuomuta (Amarr Highsec) to dock? You HAVE to lead your comrades to the enemy if you want to have any hope of destroying that enemy.
I suppose the 80+ kills including 3 caps to our 9 losses in a single engagement was undertaken in Tuomuta right, i'm not smacking here, but think twice before you open your mouth.
Actually, that was a joke. One which it seems you are the only one who was too stupid to recognize and understand.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.17 20:11:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Havohej on 17/08/2009 20:13:23
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
That was not in peacetime. It was not after a century of treaties and discourse aimed at forging peace. The first Amarrian-Matari War was a clean and honorable affair opened with a proper declaration of war.
No, it wasn't.
CONCORD did not exist on the Day of Darkness; in fact, CONCORD wasn't established until ~20 years after the Minmatar Rebellion forced Imperial forces out of Minmatar Space, over 700 years after the Amarr Empire's invasion. The Amarr Empire did not openly declare war and give the Minmatar Empire 24 hours (or even one hour) to prepare. The Amarrian armadas and six slave ships arrived unheralded and with singular purpose to enslave a race which had previously looked upon you as potential friends who could be reasoned with, despite 'rogue elements' from your Empire abducting Minmatar citizens for the slave trade as early as 22355 AD (125 years prior to the Amarrian invasion and conquest of the Minmatar Empire).
No amount of lies or flowery rhetoric is going to make us forget the truth of what happened that day; nothing you say is going to make us forgive that attack or the centuries that have passed since.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Amon Xeno
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Posted - 2009.08.17 20:20:00 -
[33]
oh looks like i am really famous now ;)
i dont think there is any other milita that has more neutrals aiding them in different ways than the minmatar milita
but we all know that those entities who are not worth to be mentioned here are full of fail which is the reason they are interfering with FW in the first place, because they are too weak to actually fight anyone head on by themselfes
alliances and corporations that cowardly abuse the flawed wardec mechanics to interfere with FW (mainly on the side of the minmatar)
alliances and corporations that are so coward that they only want the benefits of FW and none of the downsides ( like not being able to enter enemy highsec)
alliances and corporations that are obiously far interfior to me on their impact in FW, but still aslong as they exist they also make my existance in FW a necessity.
and even if they can be wardecced, do you really expect every corp in the milita to wardec any corp and alliance that supports the other side ?
even frank monkey can not be that stupid
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Garst Tyrell
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 20:25:00 -
[34]
If Amon Xeno goes RR, he is of course flashy to the enemy fleet and should be primaried like any other logistics. The fact that he is allowing himself to go flashy means he is shouldering a risk for his actions that the numerous neutral spies that follow the fleets and ventrillo spies do not.
Do I like the idea of neutrals choosing their battles? No more than I like the idea of SF choosing their battles through selective wardecs on corps comprising an alliance. (Dont link me your SF vs militia wardec suggestion petition, Ive already read it and you still want to be exempt from fighting the Caldari while the Gallente would have no such restrictions in helping the minmitar as well as you).
As for hiding behind neutral corps, I dont see much being done to change the current system unless all neutral corps forced its members out after a certain time period to special neutral and wardeccable corps. Hoping that CONCORD would actively patrol or have the manpower to determine who or who is not exploiting the rules of engagement is an irrational hope.
Neutral RR with enemy flags are the least of the neutrality problem. Take a trip through Tuomuta and wave to "FYIIAMASPY" who is permanantly parked on the kamela gate in his ibis. I wish I could say he was the only one. At least -DARK had the decency to have cloaked and fully flashy members of their corp track fleets as proper scouts.
As for vent spies I have never, not even once, used a vent spy or the intel from a vent spy in my fleets. Nothing was said over vent. Nothing was sent to me in a private convo. Nothing was sent to me through any other conceivable method of conversation. PIE even has rules against such tactics.
I realize this thread is not about me or my hatred of vent spies. However since it was brought up earlier in general conversation and I find the idea of Amarr vent spies both laughable and offensive, I will make the following points:
In my months of flying with the 24th IC during all time zones and FC's, small and large fleets, capital and down, I have never once knowingly received intel from an Amarr vent spy or even heard one refrenced.
In my months of flying with the 24th IC, minmitar vent spies are the norm and from what I have seen, are certainly real threats and not mere paranoid fantasy.
You probably won't believe me. That's fine. I understand that the Tyrant's forces and the pirates that assist them need to use every edge they feel they have to try and even the battlefield. When their fleets and capitals continue to go down in flames despite such "advantages" I can only shake my head in disgust.
"I long for death, not because I seek peace, but because I seek the war eternal" |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.17 21:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
I'm saying that the minmatar attack was not "for no reason" or "out of the blue".
Let My People Go |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.17 21:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Havohej
CONCORD did not exist on the Day of Darkness;
The Day of Darkness is a mythological explanation of what happened to your people. Not a factual one. It is chock full of the sorts of devises used by oral tradition to make a story more dramatic.
The biggest storm in Matari history. The Amarrians coming in exactly one massive ship per planet. It is all such a perfect story, and utterly unbelievable. Or do you really think that we operate with such a blatantly absurd invasion plan?
Quote:
in fact, CONCORD wasn't established until ~20 years after the Minmatar Rebellion forced Imperial forces out of Minmatar Space, over 700 years after the Amarr Empire's invasion.
What a world we live in when people believe that the only way to properly and openly declare war is through CONCORD. People have been declaring just and unjust wars for thousands of years.
Quote:
The Amarr Empire did not openly declare war and give the Minmatar Empire 24 hours (or even one hour) to prepare. The Amarrian armadas and six slave ships arrived unheralded and with singular purpose to enslave a race which had previously looked upon you as potential friends who could be reasoned with.
Nice story. In one version of the myth, Amarr were well known to the Matari and suddenly backstabbed them. In the other, Amarr came out of nowhere with six slave ships and made first contact in blood and slaves.
Which is it? You really cannot have it both ways here.
Amarr came in with a proper declaration of war for fully justified reasons ranging from the actions of their ancestors on the home world to the treatment of Amarrian converts by the barbaric religions of Matar. Abel Jarek was hardly the first martyred Matari convert, after all. The Nefantir Saints are a testament to this.
Quote:
No amount of lies or flowery rhetoric is going to make us forget the truth of what happened that day; nothing you say is going to make us forgive that attack or the centuries that have passed since.
You are using real historical records rather than oral myths created to explain the total defeat of the Matari in terms that the survivors could understand. Not an especially good reason for burning your treaties with Amarr signed within the last century.
But let us play the "Blame passes from generation to generation" game. Certainly, it is a very Amarrian way of thinking. Much of our theology of slavery is based upon this very belief.
You see, an ancestor of the Matari killed and exiled Amarrians long before the Amarrians ever met the Matari on Matar. This means that the First Amarrian-Matari War was justified by the same logic used to support the more recent Matari breaches of treaties, regardless of what other reasons were used.
Yet, we broke with that theology for a time to attempt to offer your people peace. And in return, you proved that, like your distant ancestors, you cannot be trusted so long as you are free.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.08.17 21:51:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 17/08/2009 21:51:53
Originally by: Poreuomai
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Furthermore, no one now alive was there. So you are by default saying that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
I'm saying that the minmatar attack was not "for no reason" or "out of the blue".
No, but even by your logic it still broke every treaty that the Matari have signed for the past century.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Scheherazade Miewong
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Posted - 2009.08.17 22:18:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Scheherazade Miewong on 17/08/2009 22:19:41
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Lord Maximullis
Amarr
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.17 22:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
No, but even by your logic it still broke every treaty that the Matari have signed for the past century.
No. The attack was started mainly by the Thukkers who were at the time not members of the republic and had signed no treaties with the Empire. Also...matari are still enslaved within the empire how could they have signed any treaties admiral?
If your God does exist. The great rebellion, your defeat at the hands of the jovians and your failure
to defeat the TLF shows that he does not take sides.
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Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.17 23:26:00 -
[40]
My opinion, such as it is, is that neutrals that hide in starter corps and remote rep their allies are cowardly, it smacks of fear for oneÆs enemies.
Of course nothing is ôout of boundsö if you have no moral fiber. The same is true for those who do not respect duels or disconnect their pod interface to warp out quicker when confronted by a surprise enemy fleets and then reconnected and disconnect to avoid probing. It is all spineless simpering failure, and if one is alright with that then go right ahead. In the end such antics do not avail you success and more often than not is indicative of a failure in fortitude on the part of the pilot. Weak necked pilots show a likely lack to stay in the fight when times are bleak, when they are needed most. CanÆt trust them.
In addition, morally bankrupt prosecution of war lowers your honor and standing politically. You become like the soul vacuuming pirates who raid and plunder anything weak and run like sniveling dogs from even the slightest threat.
Amon Xeno is of course a piglet who hides his losses from the record keepers of the Militia. Those that fly with him are tainted by association as profiteers making gains on low tactics. But then it isnÆt like the 24th crusade has made any claims that they are morally superior to their foes, right?
Moral fiber has tangible benefit and so many ôleadersö seem to not understand this. Reputation is just as important as skill. If you are reviled as pathetic your corporation will wither.
That is my opinion, IÆm sure the line on craven acts is drawn lower by some and higher by others.
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TorrusTron
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.08.18 00:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Originally by: TorrusTron
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus.
Name it and I am your monkey.
Frank
[p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out]
Sure 1v1 battleships
----------------------------
Wait here i will go for help |
Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 01:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
The Day of Darkness is a mythological explanation of what happened to your people. Not a factual one.
*The Thukker-Sebiestor visibly struggles to maintain his composure.
I begin to understand the mania your people live by. The Day of Darkness is what my people - the Minmatar People - call the day when six slave ships escorted by a vast armada of Amarrian warships we could not hope to stand against entered the Pator system and fanned out to the Minmatar Empire's most populous worlds and began to slaughter and enslave our tribes. The Day of Darkness most certainly happened.
To say that it didn't is like to say that no Caldari carrier ever carried out a suicide attack on a Gallente world. It's like saying that Noir did not crash a mothership into a station in Malkalen. "Not a factual one..." The rest of your propaganda isn't worth my time.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.18 10:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: TorrusTron
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Originally by: TorrusTron
Edited by: TorrusTron on 17/08/2009 12:55:49
silly link.
same frank that posted a 1v1 to any amarr then forgot to respond to any challenge. Its lowsec they get flagged, shoot them.
Ready anytime you are feeling strong Torrus.
Name it and I am your monkey.
Frank
[p.s. in case there is any confusion, yes I am indeed calling you out]
Sure 1v1 battleships
Lovely job, details being sent through internal comms.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the Supersonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.08.18 12:03:00 -
[44]
I mean when he is flashy to you what prevents you from shooting on him?
Is he striking fear to your hearts and make your knees weak and grasps for air in amazment that you cant hit the fire button and shoot?
Couse realy is beyond me how hard is to kill a flashy target when you are in fleet.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.18 13:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
But let us play the "Blame passes from generation to generation" game. Certainly, it is a very Amarrian way of thinking. Much of our theology of slavery is based upon this very belief.
You see, an ancestor of the Matari killed and exiled Amarrians long before the Amarrians ever met the Matari on Matar. This means that the First Amarrian-Matari War was justified by the same logic used to support the more recent Matari breaches of treaties, regardless of what other reasons were used.
Yet, we broke with that theology for a time to attempt to offer your people peace. And in return, you proved that, like your distant ancestors, you cannot be trusted so long as you are free.
I assume you are attempting to be ironic with your claim about a Minmatar ancestor killing and exiling Amarrians long before the Amarr met the Minmatar. I certainly know of no firm basis for the claim. I don't consider the rantings of various heretics, heterodox cults and the occasional demented preacher actually found useful by the Amarr theocracy to be evidence, that is for sure. I imagine the gambit here is to say that certain legends and myths, or as you might say 'theology', provide a basis and therefore it is just as valid a justification as the Minmatar Day of Darkness that you claim to be 'mythological'. Hence all this nonsense about a 'declared war' and spurious justifications on the grounds of 'actions of their ancestors on the home world' (which 'home world' would that be?) and the alleged 'martyrdom' of Nefantar Saints, and all the rest of it. Well, you can swap rather shaky history, legend, myth and upliftng religious tales with Havohej all you like, Gaven Lok'ri, it won't avail you much in your argument about who started the war.
You see, there's a problem for you and that problem is what is not myth. That problem is what is fact and the fact is that the war never ended. You can talk about treaties and CONCORD and what a foolish bunch of Minmatar politicians may or may not have agreed to. In the end, all that deals only with relations between two more or less illegitimate governments. Your own, a vile tyranny based on superstition and fear, and the Minmatar Republic as was, a corrupted and bizarre attempt to construct a simulacrum of Gallentean sham democracy.
The Amarr Empire continued the war with the Minmatar people by the simple act of continuing to hold millions upon millions of Minmatar as slaves. One doesn't even need to argue about whether slaving expeditions continued after the so-called 'treaty' or not. We both know they did. You will dismiss them as rogue. It doesn't matter, the Amarr Empire kept vast numbers of the Minmatar enslaved and by doing so continued the war. Slavery is violence. It is an essential feature of the very act of keeping a slave. It is by force to render a sentient being nothing more than a piece of property, to be disposed of as the slaver wills. When this is done to one individual it is tantamount to murder. When it is done to millions upon millions of people who can seriously deny it is war?
As you said earlier: "What a world we live in when people believe that the only way to properly and openly declare war is through CONCORD. People have been declaring just and unjust wars for thousands of years." Yes indeed, Gaven Lok'ri, yes indeed.
The war of enslavement never ended and the Elder Fleet incursions were a perfectly legitimate use of violence against those who continued to prosecute that evil war.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Lord Maximullis
Amarr
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
|
Posted - 2009.08.18 16:23:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Lord Maximullis on 18/08/2009 16:24:12
Mr Cosmopolite is correct. The slave wars have been fought since the day of darkness itself. The great rebellion was simply a battle in that war, albiet a grand and pivotal battle.
I do not belive that there can be any peaceful solution to the war. Until we sit in the light of the fires of vengence that will one day be lit on Amarr. Then and only then will the people of the cluster be satisfied in the knowledge that the cancer of religious zealotry and fanaticism that is the Empire has been burned out.
It will be a good day, when they come to see the cost of hubris
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.18 17:03:00 -
[47]
Mr. Bliss, is 'hiding' from enemies cowardice? Are just some forms of hiding cowardice? Hiding with cloaks, hiding in stations, hiding in other corporations, hiding behind superior numbers, etc. etc.? Why the obsession with courage and cowardice?
When I hear Star Fraction pilots as yourself (and pilots like Frank Monkey) denouncing certain tactics as 'cowardly' all I see is frustration. I see pilots unable to dictate terms of the engagement and accuse their opponent of cowardice because of it.
Most pilots engage when they feel they have the advantage, and avoid combat otherwise. Pilots will also utilize a wide variety of strategies to create an advantage for themselves.
From most pilots I've met in my tenure as capsuleer, Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about. They rarely engage unless they have a clear advantage and avoid combat (=hide) otherwise. Of course, perhaps this is testament to an excellent ability of Star Fraction pilots to correctly judge the situation. You may call the Star Fraction tendency to avoid disadvantageous combat situations (both tactically but also strategically) cowardice or wisdom, depending on your point of view.
Any debate about if the greater coward is the one that employs carriers within docking range or one that uses out-of-corp repair allies is frankly pretty pointless. And to consider such people 'morally bankrupt' is an oddity. I believe there are far better indications of moral integrity than such really small issues under discussion here. The fact that you use so big a term merely indicates your high level of frustration in the face of such tactics.
It doesn't matter much to me either way, it only matters to me insofar Star Fraction is able to disrupt my own operations, which, fortunately, has been limited.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about.
You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.19 15:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Merdaneth
Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about.
You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there.
You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.19 16:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You are simply deluded. I stopped reading there.
You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky.
Oh the sublime irony of an Amarrian Zealot saying this is almost too much to bear.
Heartstone.
---
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.19 19:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
You probably thought that continuing to read might be a bit risky.
Aye, serious risk of falling asleep.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.19 19:51:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 19/08/2009 19:52:33
Originally by: Merdaneth
Mr. Bliss, is 'hiding' from enemies cowardice?
right well I did say that others draw their line in the sand is different places. in my opinion hiding in a starter corp is cowardice...and it is.
Originally by: Merdaneth
When I hear Star Fraction pilots as yourself denouncing certain tactics as 'cowardly' all I see is frustration.
I've always been on the record as disapproving of involvement of starter corps and in-space pod disconnections as tactics in the theater of war. It is cowardice, and cowardice frustrates me because I dislike wasting my time stomping after mice. doesn't effect my combat, and indeed makes me more likely to prosecute war on these milk-boys...weakness like that just activates my predatory instinct.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Most pilots engage when they feel they have the advantage, and avoid combat otherwise.
this is true, but not comparable .
Also I'll always fight if the odds are even close, unlike "most".
you have to be careful painting every Star Fraction pilot with the same brush. The caliber of my suicidal rage while in space is well documented, so saying pilots such as myself risk-averse or only fight when they have a clear advantage prove the propaganda being spoken. Respect where it is Due, everyone knows that my failing in combat is an over eagerness to fly down the throat of my opposition. So check your attempts to spin, they backfire.
Originally by: Merdaneth
From most pilots I've met in my tenure as capsuleer, Star Fraction is a corporation with that attracts the most risk-averse pilots about.
hmmm
well when I was fighting for the Empire against Star Fraction off and on for years I'd have to say that some previous pilots were cowardly pirate types. They have since moved on to piracy or goonswarm. This current crop are full of blood lust and not afraid to take risk.
In general I will say that Star Fraction is not a risk-averse corporation. but then I have seen them both from the Amarr side and now from the inside.
You lack this additional experience and only know them as the boogey men who appear, murder your fellows and then move off to inflict carnage somewhere else. don't mistake skill and success for risk-aversion.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Any debate about if the greater coward ... is frankly pretty pointless.
so true. amon xeno is going to keep at it and the 24th crusade is going to keep gaining benefit from both their sad carrier games and this neutral remote rep web as to gain from the incorrect kill posting. there is no point in "debating" but I was merely sharing my opinion. I do not want to debate something that is an obvious truth.
you obviously draw your line very low in the sand as you defend and benefit from these nasty little piglets in your crusade. Anything for success eh?
But you know what, if that works for you then I don't see any reason for you to rise above it.
I don't mind the remote rep bit as it often leads to massive death for the enemy as their ships are flagged. Its pathetic and cowardly, but not all together unbeatable.
what I will continue to rage about is pod disconections, reconnections and then disconnections over and over. I defy you to support that behavior, only culls and swine do that. |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.19 22:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Also I'll always fight if the odds are even close, unlike "most".
you have to be careful painting every Star Fraction pilot with the same brush. The caliber of my suicidal rage while in space is well documented, so saying pilots such as myself risk-averse or only fight when they have a clear advantage prove the propaganda being spoken. Respect where it is Due, everyone knows that my failing in combat is an over eagerness to fly down the throat of my opposition. So check your attempts to spin, they backfire.
There is no doubt that Star Fraction pilots differ in both skill and eagerness to engage. I don't believe we've met in space often enough for me to judge your position on that spectrum.
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
In general I will say that Star Fraction is not a risk-averse corporation.
I agree. I merely made a comparative judgement in relation to the people I fight the most often, the Tribal Liberation Force. I do not claim that Star Fraction, in comparison to your average capsuleer, is risk averse.
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
You lack this additional experience and only know them as the boogey men who appear, murder your fellows and then move off to inflict carnage somewhere else. don't mistake skill and success for risk-aversion.
That was my point. You can call risk-aversion wisdom or ability to learn fast from previous mistakes just as easily.
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
you obviously draw your line very low in the sand as you defend and benefit from these nasty little piglets in your crusade. Anything for success eh?
1. I have never made statements about my personal feelings about these and other types of hiding tactics anywhere in my responses. I have not drawn any lines. I simply feel no need to define my 'lines' in a public debate and I think using one's own lines to throw accusation of cowardice at your enemies is pretty pointless.
2. Being Amarr is about the methods more than the results. A victory at the cost of my principles is worse than defeat.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Kazzzi
Amarr
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.20 05:58:00 -
[54]
This all sounds like I need to hop in my Scimitar and x up for some fleets.
See you guys on the battlefield o/
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Dame Death
Minmatar
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:03:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kazzzi
This all sounds like I need to hop in my Scimitar and x up for some fleets.
See you guys on the battlefield o/
I think thats the first smart thing I've ever heard you say Kazzzi now where did I put that gurdain. *Eliza disapears towards the docking bay.*
Logs of a Brutor |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:27:00 -
[56]
so we aren't actually arguing about anything then Merdaneth, why play the Devil's Advocate if you don't agree with the cravens?
Originally by: Merdaneth
2. Being Amarr is about the methods more than the results. A victory at the cost of my principles is worse than defeat.
that is what I thought, yet i keep seeing this defense of allied piglets from so many Amarr... |
Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:45:00 -
[57]
Flying and FIGHTING/REPPING under neutral colours in a WAR is more than simply a ruse de guerre.
Sure it will win you engagements, but you could do the same by dishonouring duels.
I could do that, but I don't. I don't do it for purely selfish reasons.
It would detract from my victories and render them meaningless.
In my mind I would say "well why did you bother, YOU won nothing".
Maybe its just me. Maybe I am wrong and the "anything to win, no matter how low, is acceptable" people are right. Its just not me.
To quote from a good friend of mine "and what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his own soul"
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.08.20 23:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Flying and FIGHTING/REPPING under neutral colours in a WAR is more than simply a ruse de guerre.
Sure it will win you engagements, but you could do the same by dishonouring duels.
I could do that, but I don't. I don't do it for purely selfish reasons.
It would detract from my victories and render them meaningless.
In my mind I would say "well why did you bother, YOU won nothing".
Maybe its just me. Maybe I am wrong and the "anything to win, no matter how low, is acceptable" people are right. Its just not me.
To quote from a good friend of mine "and what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his own soul"
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
With all of that said, are you ok with SF helping the minmatar militia?
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lucifers widow
3rd Kador lancers
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Posted - 2009.08.21 07:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Invelious
With all of that said, are you ok with SF helping the minmatar militia?
But didn't you know that is diferent, I only know cause they keep saying it is, no idea why it should be diferent but it is !
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Frank Monkey
Gallente
Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes
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Posted - 2009.08.21 08:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Invelious
words
To be fair Invelious I can at least see your point of view, if not wholly agree with it.
Practically all the Minmatar Fleet Commanders are fools, so it is no surprise to me that they must resort to low tactics.
As far as Star Fraction goes, I have found them individually to be both courageous and honourable in my personal dealings with them.
However personally I have never relied or availed of ANY neutral support in ANY of my engagements with the Amarr or Caldari. Neither have any fleets I have led in either the Caldari War or the Amarr War I have fought in.
If ANYONE wishes to put a lie to those statements then please provide evidence.
Frank
...of Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes...
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
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qanatas
Minmatar
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.08.21 10:32:00 -
[61]
If all battles will be executed as well as the one Wednesday night on the auga gate in amamake, the Amarr is going to need a whole army of neutral reppers to keep up ...
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Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari
Burning Avarice
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Posted - 2009.08.22 04:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Poreuomai
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare
Sadly alliances have little choice in the matter.
If we could have joined the Minmatar Militia, we would have done so.
You could have, but obviously remaining in an alliance is more important to the great UK then breaking up to support your brothers.
If the ideals of minmatar freedom meant THAT much to you, the choice you would have made would be obvious
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Sahriah Bloodstone
Burning Avarice
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Kazzzi
Amarr
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.22 04:19:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Originally by: Poreuomai
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
neutral alliances interfering with factional warfare
Sadly alliances have little choice in the matter.
If we could have joined the Minmatar Militia, we would have done so.
You could have, but obviously remaining in an alliance is more important to the great UK then breaking up to support your brothers.
If the ideals of minmatar freedom meant THAT much to you, the choice you would have made would be obvious
Ushra'Khan is one of the only organizations dedicated to ending slavery in nullsec. Maintaining the alliance allows us to pursue this goal.
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Arnulf Ogunkoya
Minmatar
The Causality
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Posted - 2009.08.22 08:26:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kazzzi
Ushra'Khan is one of the only organizations dedicated to ending slavery in nullsec. Maintaining the alliance allows us to pursue this goal. The Minmatar militia and the Republic Fleet are fighting in the Bleaklands, but that is not the only zone of Slaver influence. The cause of freedom needs warriors in lawless space as well, otherwise the Sansha and Amarrian slavedrivers will spread unchecked through 0.0.
And, come to that, as they have frequently pointed out U'K is opposed to slavery as a whole. They are not just concerened with slavery of the Matari peoples.
I would love it if they could join the militia in some sort of formal way, just as I would love it if my old wingmates from Electus Matari could do so. They do, however, serve a useful purpose. Bear in mind that both alliances have, in their own way, been active against slavery long before the TLF had been thought of.
Regards,
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