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Jumping on the mining bandwaggon.

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Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 68	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:07:00 - [1] - Quote The fact that more exhumers were destroyed this Hulkageddon than ever not only proves that more people are ganking, but also that more miners are letting themselves become a victim. Because it boggles the mind. No matter how many restrictions you put on suicide ganking or high sec griefing antics, people always find new and creative ways to circumvent the system or use the new features in their favour. But this isn't the case for miners. I am really disappoint in the people that are doing this mind numbing, yet very important task within the game. I mean, I'm sure some indy mining corps take measures. From what I've seen most just go: stay docked. Very few actually bother to come up with a strategy or tactic to deny a gank or in some way circumvent death. The sheer amount of barges lost and the amount of barges lost owned by the same pilots... it shames all of us. There is a difference between being a carebear and being stupid. The more I think about this, the more I realize that mining really does need to change. Mining is sitting in a very fragile, bulky ship that shoots lasers and slowly fills up the hull with space rock that can be refined into minerals to make money with in an array of different ways. If done properly, you'd be sitting there with a group of people all shooting lasers, with orca support, indies, maybe some logistics or a combat ship. Just sitting there. So this got me thinking further... what kind of idiot came up with this game mechanic? Who thought it would be a good idea to implement this as the main source of materials for ships that are used in Internet space ****? It's the exact opposite of what Eve should be. Things in eve should be risky, but above that, things in eve should be exhilarating. Mining is NOT exhilarating. Well, maybe it is during Hulkageddon. If you are an idiot that is. Now, I have the best solution for this. Instead of blasting space rocks with fragile ships, why not just mine the same way moon goo is mined? With a POS. That's like, two problems solved at once. You can mine the same ore you get from a asteroid field in that specific system. You still take risk because tools will dec you and blow up your pos. And you don't have to spend hours looking at rocks. The only thing left to ponder over is what to do with the existing asteroid fields.
Karn Dulake Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance 816	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:14:00 - [2] - Quote If you changed the hulk tank to a tenth of what it is now then more people would be mining than ever as the price of minerals would go through the roof I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
AFK Hauler State War Academy Caldari State 219	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:48:00 - [3] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: ... people always find new and creative ways to circumvent the system ... Stopped reading there as it's not a violation of the rules to sandbox EVE.
TigerXtrm Cadre Assault Force Initiative Mercenaries 19	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:54:00 - [4] - Quote AFK Hauler wrote: Vicky Somers wrote: ... people always find new and creative ways to circumvent the system ... Stopped reading there as it's not a violation of the rules to sandbox EVE. ` Just because it's not currently a violation doesn't mean that it was originally planned to be possible. I don't think CCP forsaw people suicide ganking their ships when they designed the Concord mechanic, especially on this scale. So yeah, creative circumvention of the system would be an appropriate wording in this case. Not that I'm against suicide ganking, I think it fits the sandbox playstyle as long as it doesn't actively exploit the game like it did with the old insurance system.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 68	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:55:00 - [5] - Quote AFK Hauler wrote: Stopped reading there as it's not a violation of the rules to sandbox EVE. Did I say it is a violation of rules?
Ban Bindy Bindy Brothers Pottery Association 165	Posted - 2012.05.29 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote OP is missing the point. Mining is designed to provide easy targets for those who have no way of finding anything else to shoot. Mining is designed to make victims. It's a feature.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 102	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:00:00 - [7] - Quote I had suggested in F&I to make mining an addition to PI, and it was blasted by everyone that responded. For whatever reason, they have no problem with PI and moon mining being processes you could do without being logged in, but not mining. I don't know if it was simply gankers posting not wanting to lose their easy targets, or what really.
lanyaie 301	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:00:00 - [8] - Quote Uhm i dont understand are you a butthurt miner or a butthurt person because mineral prices are going up? I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you
Renn Aldard Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:04:00 - [9] - Quote I'm a miner. Never been ganked. Never taken any sort of defensive measures to counter ganking. People complaining on the forum give us a bad rep.
Price Check Aisle3 1	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:04:00 - [10] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: There is a difference between being a carebear and being stupid. lol
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 69	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:06:00 - [11] - Quote lanyaie wrote: Uhm i dont understand are you a butthurt miner or a butthurt person because mineral prices are going up? I'm butthurd because of the sambal soaked d+¦nner kebab I ate yesterday. My point is... if I ever had one. I don't know. Mining was a ******** concept from the start. People who do it and get ganked don't belong in Eve. And I see much tear potential in the "heavy duty" gankers who act like they're doing something special here. Moon mining is a great idea. Just like PI but with more work involved and a good risk factor.
Renn Aldard Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:08:00 - [12] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: lanyaie wrote: Uhm i dont understand are you a butthurt miner or a butthurt person because mineral prices are going up? I'm butthurd because of the sambal soaked d+¦nner kebab I ate yesterday. My point is... if I ever had one. I don't know. Mining was a ******** concept from the start. People who do it and get ganked don't belong in Eve. And I see much tear potential in the "heavy duty" gankers who act like they're doing something special here. Moon mining is a great idea. Just like PI but with more work involved and a good risk factor. But just to clarify, people who do it and don't get ganked are fine, right?
Mongo Edwards Grey Templars Ushra'Khan 9	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:11:00 - [13] - Quote Lots of gankers don't travel very far from major/minor hubs. In the systems I mine in I've seen a single ganker all month. To be creative I recently was involved in a mining fleet made up of 3 BS and an Orca. Even more boring than hulk mining since I have to empty my cargo every 30 seconds but still fairly profitable and much more lulz worthy.
Ditra Vorthran State War Academy Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:32:00 - [14] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: From what I've seen most just go: stay docked. Very few actually bother to come up with a strategy or tactic to deny a gank or in some way circumvent death. The sheer amount of barges lost and the amount of barges lost owned by the same pilots... it shames all of us. There is a difference between being a carebear and being stupid. If there was a way to defend yourself, I would agree. As things are right now, there is no way for miners to properly defend themselves. Even the best tanked solo Hulk only has 30k-40k EHP. Five to six (maybe less) well armed destroyers could kill before CONCORD arrives. Even with a logi ship, whatGÇÖs to stop the gankers from including the logi in that attack? They arenGÇÖt tanked much better. There really is no proper defense. Vicky Somers wrote: The more I think about this, the more I realize that mining really does need to change. Mining is sitting in a very fragile, bulky ship that shoots lasers and slowly fills up the hull with space rock that can be refined into minerals to make money with in an array of different ways. Agreed, absolutely. Although something to remember: minerals donGÇÖt make money, they add value. A small but fundamental point. The only people to add money to this game are missioners and ratters.
Mistah Ewedynao Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:38:00 - [15] - Quote How about a dual purpose command ship as an escort? Could do some repping and provide a big boost to shield resistance as well.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 69	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:47:00 - [16] - Quote Ditra Vorthran wrote: If there was a way to defend yourself, I would agree. As things are right now, there is no way for miners to properly defend themselves. Even the best tanked solo Hulk only has 30k-40k EHP. Five to six (maybe less) well armed destroyers could kill before CONCORD arrives. Even with a logi ship, whatGÇÖs to stop the gankers from including the logi in that attack? They arenGÇÖt tanked much better. There really is no proper defense.. So don't mine in a Hulk and don't mine alone. You sound like a pretty intelligent person, yet you fail when you say that there is no defense. Bring an orca, dock up. Bring ewar. Bring a Rokh with smartbombs. Bring amberlamps. Do something. I guess the answer here is obvious. Once people start thinking creatively on how to defend themselves during mining, they realize that mining is gay and go do some pew pewing themselves. Mistah Ewedynao wrote: How about a dual purpose command ship as an escort? Could do some repping and provide a big boost to shield resistance as well. See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 942	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:55:00 - [17] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button. The most common response I've heard are buff hulk tank or CONCORD, not a whole new ship, though. But I guess they want something like a high-sec capable rorqural? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Mistah Ewedynao Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:57:00 - [18] - Quote Read what I typed, not what you want to see. I said escort, not a new mining ship you ganktards.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 70	Posted - 2012.05.29 22:58:00 - [19] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: The most common response I've heard are buff hulk tank or CONCORD, not a whole new ship, though. But I guess they want something like a high-sec capable rorqural? You must not visit the suggestions forum often. They've been coming up with these god awful carrier sized, high sec capable indy ships that do everything for years. Then they got the Orca and don't use it. I'm really curious on the statistical use of an Orca. I bet half of them are used for support in WH ops or other non mining stuff.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 72	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:01:00 - [20] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button. Yep, like epic one shot on defenceless mining barges because hunting Tengus is too hard Indeed, it's so epic as failure. Like naming the highest risk zone in the game "high sec", or Concord/police reaction But makes me have fun watching all the mess and how people react from both sides, very interesting.
Garnoo Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 55	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:01:00 - [21] - Quote Quote: Mining is sitting in a very fragile, bulky ship that shoots lasers and slowly fills up the hull with space rock take cynabal, fit mining lasers - problem solved People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back - this is EvE
Ditra Vorthran State War Academy Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:03:00 - [22] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: So don't mine in a Hulk and don't mine alone. You sound like a pretty intelligent person, yet you fail when you say that there is no defense. Bring an orca, dock up. Bring ewar. Bring a Rokh with smartbombs. Bring amberlamps. Do something. The problem with the solutions above is the basic assumption that it is a matter of EHP vs DPS. No matter how much EHP, either by remote rep, personal boosting, or avoidance via ECM, that isnGÇÖt the issue. ItGÇÖs an issue of balancing the predator vs. prey gameplay (see my post on that topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1359427#post1359427) which is in reality a wide variety of gameplay changes that need to be made. ThatGÇÖs why I agree with you that the mining mechanics need to be changed, but simple means of defense are not a solution Vicky Somers wrote: See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button. Why not? It worked for destroyers. :P
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 72	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:03:00 - [23] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: The most common response I've heard are buff hulk tank or CONCORD, not a whole new ship, though. But I guess they want something like a high-sec capable rorqural? You must not visit the suggestions forum often. They've been coming up with these god awful carrier sized, high sec capable indy ships that do everything for years. Then they got the Orca and don't use it. I'm really curious on the statistical use of an Orca. I bet half of them are used for support in WH ops or other non mining stuff. Where is the failure when players don't use something? I'm pretty sure you're not a failure and you fly all day long Osprey or Moas because you rocks in tha house
Macks Artilius The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing 62	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:05:00 - [24] - Quote Come mine in nullsec, its safer here. I wish I was kidding.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 70	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:08:00 - [25] - Quote Ditra Vorthran wrote: The problem with the solutions above is the basic assumption that it is a matter of EHP vs DPS. No matter how much EHP, either by remote rep, personal boosting, or avoidance via ECM, that isnGÇÖt the issue. ItGÇÖs an issue of balancing the predator vs. prey gameplay (see my post on that topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1359427#post1359427) which is in reality a wide variety of gameplay changes that need to be made. ThatGÇÖs why I agree with you that the mining mechanics need to be changed, but simple means of defense are not a solution Why not? It worked for destroyers. :P Sorry I stopped reading your thread when you cried about cloaks. Destroyers die by just looking at them.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 70	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:09:00 - [26] - Quote Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: Where is the failure when players don't use something? I'm pretty sure you're not a failure and you fly all day long Osprey or Moas because you rocks in tha house wat?
Mersault Blue Nine Industries 85	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:13:00 - [27] - Quote This thread again. As an avid reader of GD I have to ask how many times do I have to stomach the endless wining herp derp of the same topic over and over again from grandiose self important scrubs rushing to forums with their own predigested regurgitate of a bad meal. I hate your thread, I hate that I posted in your thread, I hate that I cared enough to post or read and want to fight the hell out of you. In game.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 70	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:16:00 - [28] - Quote Mersault wrote: This thread again. As an avid reader of GD I have to ask how many times do I have to stomach the endless wining herp derp of the same topic over and over again from grandiose self important scrubs rushing to forums with their own predigested regurgitate of a bad meal. I hate your thread, I hate that I posted in your thread, I hate that I cared enough to post or read and want to fight the hell out of you. In game. I'd hate to ask but why are you mad?
Mr Sato School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:18:00 - [29] - Quote I dont think OP has really conducted any high-sec mining to say that this form of game-play doesnt require any attention. If you min-max your yield with perhaps more than one account you will be quite busy scanning, planning crystal swap, rock swap and to time the hauling. Everything else is just geological ************. I like the suggestion as it indicate thinking outside the box, but overall the idea of planet/moon resource harvesting is that it is a passive form of gain and a scourge for every game developer. In general it should be avoided, even if the Skill system EVE seems quite acclaimed. Perhaps a better idea, if the aim is to make it more interacting, is to reduce harvest time and introduced a more time consuming survey/scan time. I believe there have been quite a lot of forum suggestions where the belts should be replaced by gravimetric sites. Edit: seems self-pleasuring is frowned upon in this forum
Andoria Thara Fallen Avatars 9	Posted - 2012.05.29 23:29:00 - [30] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: Moon mining is a great idea. Just like PI but with more work involved and a good risk factor. I guess you missed the memo about them adding in ring mining (as well as new ring mining ships) for moon goo sometime in the near future?

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