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Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.19 05:06:00 - [1] I had another idea that I'd like to get some feedback on. Maybe someone already suggested it and I missed the thread. If you think its a dumb idea, I'd appreciate if you'd give feedback, rather than just flaming. Explain why you don't like it. Preface In "Homeworld" (honestly, I'm pretty sure most Eve players have played "Homeworld") small strike craft have the option to "kamikaze"; that is, they charge at their target at full speed, firing dead ahead, and crash into its hull, inflicting a sizable amount of damage, but destroying the strike craft in the process. We have the ability to overheat our weapons for increased attack profiles in exchange for self-damage; why not our drones? My Idea Give us the ability to sacrifice our drones for a single high-volley attack. Damage could be proportional to the ship's momentum, taking into account the drone's size classification. That is, DAMAGE= x(RELATIVE VELOCITYMASS). Now, the x value would have to change based on the size of the drone, because if left even across the board, light drones have a more aggressive profile than heavy drones, due to their velocities. This difference could be RP'd to signify the increased damage being dealt by the drone's stored munitions going critical on impact; bigger drones have bigger guns, thus have more comparative boom. Basically, I'd want this for a situation in which my drones are ineffective against an enemy. Be it a passive shield tank that shrugs off their DPS, a smartbomb that limits their lifespan within its radius, velocity too high for them to orbit effectively... or maybe its just a close fight and I want to win, regardless of cost. Maybe the enemy is trying to warp off, and in those few vulnerable moments I want to try and get one last shot in before he goes. One very expensive volley shot. When you give drones the order to conduct a suicide run, they would accelerate in a straight line at the target. As long as they're within firing range, they would also fire on it. Granted, that's probably only 1-2 shots, depending on target speed, but every little bit helps, right? Upon impact, they would deal damage with a profile similar to missiles. A low-mass target is more likely to be pushed, spin off, etc., rather than absorbing the entire impact like a high-mass target would, so mass would be treated much the same way as explosion radius. Velocity would also be a factor. The drones might impact the same way missiles do, always coming in from behind. You would obviously only feel the impact of the difference in your respective velocities. Outrunning the drones on their suicide run would also be feasible. Its not an instant-volley button. Its simply a last-resort weapon. Now, the amount of damage being dealt here is the real question. The mass of an Acolyte I is 3,000 kg, and the maximum unskilled velocity is 3,800 m/s. The raw multiplied value, then, is 11.4 million kgm/s of momentum. Let's say we want, at base stats, the suicide run to be... twice as effective as the equivalent long range missile? So a Sabretooth Light Missile deals 75 base damage, leaving us to want to deal 150 base damage with the Acolyte I. So, to re-use my formula above, for an Acolyte I DAMAGE= x(RELATIVE VELOCITYMASS) 150=x(38003000) 150=11400000x 0.00001316=x (I stopped at 4 significant digits) For an Infiltrator I (Derived from Thunderbolt Heavy Missile) 300=x(19005000) 300=9500000x 0.00003158=x For a Praetor I (Derived from a Paradise Cruise Missile) 600=x(95010000) 600=9500000x 0.00003158=x Now, these are obviously rough calculations; the x-value would have to be standardized across the entire drone class in order to give racial benefits to drone users. For example, Hobgoblin I drones would deal the least damage as their maximum possible momentum is only 8,400,000 kgm/s, compared to the 11,400,000 kgm/s of the Acolyte I, 11,200,000 kgm/s of the Hornet I, or whopping 16,800,000 kg*m/s of the Warrior I.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.19 05:06:00 - [2] Reserved
Darkdood	Posted - 2009.08.19 06:24:00 - [3] "For the Swarm!!!" Infested Terran's ftw. I like this idea. Given that drone bays have a pretty limited size on 95% of the ships int eh game could be fun. You trade the dmg over time for one big blast then you are out of drones.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 05:05:00 - [4] Well, I guess that makes the current rankings 100% for this idea and 0% against it. Any naysayers? Constructive criticism, maybe? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Aust Beladona Lost Connection Infused Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.20 06:08:00 - [5] I actually am all for anything that adds to the utility and uniqueness of the occassionally dull drone-master's existance... While balancing would be a concern.. I think it would be reasonable in my experience.. for the drones to deal something around the amount a pair of like-sized missiles. I would quite like giving SBers and speedy ship an parting gift... Question... Drone nav computer improves thrust for drones.. Do you think this would improve the damage? (A particular lol-fit I recall involved a set of 7 drone nav computers, and the improved t2 warriors ended up flying at 14km/s) Something that should be considered, elsewise, we could have some people running around solely "speed-ganking" drones...
King Rothgar Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.08.20 15:18:00 - [6] Hmm, I like the idea. Let the warrior I's serve a purpose. -----------------------------------------------------
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Aust Beladona Question... Drone nav computer improves thrust for drones.. Do you think this would improve the damage? (A particular lol-fit I recall involved a set of 7 drone nav computers, and the improved t2 warriors ended up flying at 14km/s) Something that should be considered, elsewise, we could have some people running around solely "speed-ganking" drones... This is something I want to work very hard to avoid. I don't want it to become another gank tactic. Unfortunately, slow, massive ships like, say, freighters and industrials, would be quite vulnerable to attacks of this type. The limitation of 5 drones active at a time per player, max, will work in favor of limiting the gankiness of this tactic (although I'm not sure how a Thanatos with 15 Beserker IIs might abuse it). My suggestion above concerning delaying relaunch after a drone completes a suicide attack would also prevent you from being able to get off more than one volley in a suicide gank situation. The durability of large warships, or the low mass and speed of smaller warships, would provide defense versus 1-shot-kills. Hopefully. Careful balancing would, of course, be necessary. I don't know, maybe make it so they can't be activated against targets over 50% total HP? That would no doubt increase the complication of programming, but would also provide some gank defense. Of course, in the situation of a passive shield tank that you need to volley past its optimal recharge, that 50% may be too much of a threshold. Its difficult to define the limits without more specifics to the idea and testing. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:36:00 - [8] Originally by: King Rothgar Hmm, I like the idea. Let the warrior I's serve a purpose. I know, right? After I ran the math and realized that's how it would work out, I went "OMG ROLE REVERSAL! HAMMERHEADS ARE LAME?!?" ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
VC General	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:52:00 - [9] I like the idea for the coolness factor, but I don't see any reason for it in gameplay. Drones already do good damage, so the kamikaze would have to be significantly bigger to make it a worthwhile tactic. That being said, I only see it being used to gank people, or as a final attack before you pop. I don't think you'd have to worry about carriers abusing it. Suiciding all your drones to kill a few conventionals is probably not a great idea.
Mekela	Posted - 2009.08.20 16:58:00 - [10] Um don't we allready have this, I believe these special drones we have are called MISSILES.
Jack Coutu Gallente The Happy Spacemen	Posted - 2009.08.20 17:09:00 - [11] yes indeed, they are called missles, and unless you want to fly a drone ship with no drones after you suicide them all, i'd say the current missles are better than these drone missles. also you are a sick man, drones have feelings too. they feel the urge to kill, and to come home. Not to kamikaze.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 17:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Mekela Um don't we allready have this, I believe these special drones we have are called MISSILES. Yes, and missiles are used as a primary weapon. You can overheat missile launchers to increase your damage while inflicting damage to those selfsame launchers. Why not have a similar mechanic for drones, which, despite being spec'd as primary weapons on several ships, are inevitably relegated to the secondary weapon roles? Thanks for your insightful, constructive commentary. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Volodar	Posted - 2009.08.20 17:50:00 - [13] Idea is pretty cool imho, but.... what about suicide ganks in empire at g8s? They might reborn again. A pack of tech1 cruisers with drones shoot them at a victim and all they need to do is to gather up the loot.
Saartje Sarel	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:15:00 - [14] I havent read the thread. I can't be bothered. Suicide drones = missiles.
XXXAKTIVE	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:22:00 - [15] I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Saartje Sarel I havent read the thread. I can't be bothered. Suicide drones = missiles. See above for my gratitude to similar constructive commentary. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:05:00 - [17] Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair 10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.22 03:47:00 - [18] Anyone else interested in providing some feedback? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Saul Elsyn INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE	Posted - 2009.08.22 03:53:00 - [19] Interesting idea, an easy way to keep this from being abused as a gank tactic would be to make it so the drones act much like a smartbomb when they hit. If the first drone hits it chains the following drones removing their damage, so the drone kamikazes would have to be done in a series of strikes instead of just one.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.22 08:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Saul Elsyn Interesting idea, an easy way to keep this from being abused as a gank tactic would be to make it so the drones act much like a smartbomb when they hit. If the first drone hits it chains the following drones removing their damage, so the drone kamikazes would have to be done in a series of strikes instead of just one. Something like that, though, would probably be outlawed in empire just like bombs. And, bombs are tanked against their own damage type, so they don't chain each other off I think that the best way to prevent it becoming a gank tactic is delay prior to re-use of the ability, and moderation of the damage dealt with regards to the size and speed of the target. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.24 16:37:00 - [21] Any other ideas? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
ACE81	Posted - 2009.08.24 16:59:00 - [22] how about just overheating drones?
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2009.08.24 17:18:00 - [23] Your concern and dismissal of a Thanatos with 15 Berzerkers suiciding into ships was dismissed too quickly. Do you know how much drone hold a Thanny has? 100km3. Thats approx. 266 waves of 15 Berzerkers. By the way, if you suicide drones, make sure they do a LOT more damage than missiles of their class. The mass of a heavy drone is 6+ times the size of a torpedo. Sorry, but its going to necessitate doing a lot of damage. A max skilled flight of Ogre IIs (with ship bonus) does around 450 DPS. Id expect that flight of Ogres to do around 15k damage in one volley, which equates to 30 seconds of firing on my target. A Raven with 3 ballistic controls, T2 launchers, and Rage Inferno torps (T2 for T2!) does 6k in one volley, or around 1k DPS. That seems fair to me, even though with the huge amounts of buffer tank most ships are sporting it wont make a difference. Plus the fact that the only ship capable of sustaining this would be a Dominix or an Ishtar given their large bays seems fair. Whittle that drake down to its peak recharge point, suicide drones to push it into armor, then release another set to finish it off. A fair tactic given we cant reload our drone bays in space (seriously, wtf CCP?). ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
MJ Maverick IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.08.24 18:52:00 - [24] Overheat drones and give them structure damage while doing it. 1 New skill to reduce damage taken by drones overheating. Done - sorted - dusted. -------------------- CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.24 19:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Your concern and dismissal of a Thanatos with 15 Berzerkers suiciding into ships was dismissed too quickly. Do you know how much drone hold a Thanny has? 100km3. Thats approx. 266 waves of 15 Berzerkers. By the way, if you suicide drones, make sure they do a LOT more damage than missiles of their class. The mass of a heavy drone is 6+ times the size of a torpedo. Sorry, but its going to necessitate doing a lot of damage. A max skilled flight of Ogre IIs (with ship bonus) does around 450 DPS. Id expect that flight of Ogres to do around 15k damage in one volley, which equates to 30 seconds of firing on my target. A Raven with 3 ballistic controls, T2 launchers, and Rage Inferno torps (T2 for T2!) does 6k in one volley, or around 1k DPS. That seems fair to me, even though with the huge amounts of buffer tank most ships are sporting it wont make a difference. Plus the fact that the only ship capable of sustaining this would be a Dominix or an Ishtar given their large bays seems fair. Whittle that drake down to its peak recharge point, suicide drones to push it into armor, then release another set to finish it off. A fair tactic given we cant reload our drone bays in space (seriously, wtf CCP?). I would be in favor of increasing the theoretical damage of the wave, however keep in mind that a torpedo is ordinance, designed specifically to hit things and explode, dealing damage. A drone is designed to shoot things, not blow up on things. So while mass is greater, destructive power does not necessarily follow. Carriers using recycled waves of Beserkers would be a problem, but it would be a ridiculously expensive tactic. Also, see above concerning relaunch delays to dissuade usage in suicide tactics. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.24 19:34:00 - [26] Originally by: MJ Maverick Overheat drones and give them structure damage while doing it. 1 New skill to reduce damage taken by drones overheating. Done - sorted - dusted. A possible alternative I'd be willing to accept. I just think my concept would add something new, interesting, and unpredictable to gameplay. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
OrcephDrake	Posted - 2009.08.24 19:43:00 - [27] Yeah the original idea is cool sounding but a tad over powering. But MJ Maverick's idea is pretty badass remake.
Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.08.24 19:55:00 - [28] What I'd like is the ability for a fleet commander to suicide his newbies and interceptor pilots to take out large enemy ships. An Incursus in particular should do a lot of damage. IMHO every ship should be able to ram and suicide against others.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.24 20:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker What I'd like is the ability for a fleet commander to suicide his newbies and interceptor pilots to take out large enemy ships. An Incursus in particular should do a lot of damage. IMHO every ship should be able to ram and suicide against others. \ Agreed, Incursus does have that badass spike on the front. Armor penetration ftw. I, too, would love a "RAMMING SPEED!!!11!1!!11" mechanic, but I understand why it won't happen in Eve. It would either have to be module-dependent, and would end up being overused (plated BSs MWDing into sieged dreads = ded dred) or it would be constant, at which point undock conga lines would become epic deathtrains in populated regions. Imagine a Velator undocking, stopping, and then getting bumped by a Dominix? splat. Anyway, thanks for your comment that is 90% unrelated to my topic :) ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
ark maphar	Posted - 2009.08.24 22:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker What I'd like is the ability for a fleet commander to suicide his newbies and interceptor pilots to take out large enemy ships. An Incursus in particular should do a lot of damage. IMHO every ship should be able to ram and suicide against others. yeah..... a titan ramming a mothership and a 12 dreadnought fleet=win
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2009.08.25 00:10:00 - [31] something like overheating the drones would be nice and this fits well. just as long as its not overpowered.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.25 03:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Anton Cyldragen something like overheating the drones would be nice and this fits well. just as long as its not overpowered. which is would be my primary goal in such an endeavor. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.08.25 03:50:00 - [33] Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each. edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still. ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords!
ark maphar	Posted - 2009.08.25 04:03:00 - [34] Edited by: ark maphar on 25/08/2009 04:03:54 Originally by: Sir Substance Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each. edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still. yeah, just like a missile with a impulse engine in it so since there is no fuel, it can hold more explosives. and it can fly indefinatly
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.25 08:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Sir Substance Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each. edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still. This is exactly what I don't want. A guided munition with no purpose except a single strike on a target is a missile. If my idea is ever implemented I hope to avoid ever seeing a drone designed with the sole intention of suiciding. I want a risk = reward mechanic for drones. I recognize that my suicide idea is scary to some people who are afraid of change, and I'd be willing to settle for an overheating mechanic as mentioned earlier in the thread. But I don't want drones to turn into something like the Turtle Shells in Mariokart, just orbiting you until you fire them at something. The application of this idea to EWar drones recently occurred to me, and at the moment I would have to say I am against applying EWAR effects as a result of EWAR drone kamikaze. I doubt an ECM module would react in a beneficial manner when compressed in the same way that a munitions stockpile would, so I see no logical reason for a webber drone crashing into a target to cause the target to become webbed. The same applies with neut, ECM, TP, TD, SD... no EWar effects applied by suiciding EWar drones. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Imiarr Timshae Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats	Posted - 2009.08.25 08:56:00 - [36] Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship.
Nol Agnot Nightwatch Immortal	Posted - 2009.08.25 10:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Imiarr Timshae Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship. But think of all the explosions! Delenda est achura.
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.08.25 12:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Garthran Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair 10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority. thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF.... Too overpowered. Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.25 12:42:00 - [39] Maybe we could call these semi-autonomous self-guided drones "missiles"?
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.08.25 14:29:00 - [40] Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target? I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion.
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2009.08.25 17:31:00 - [41] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Garthran Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair 10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority. thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF.... Too overpowered. Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide. pest has drones too
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.25 18:42:00 - [42] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Garthran Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair 10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority. thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF.... Too overpowered. Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide. Explain to me how using a weapon in an unexpected manner is overpowered. In that situation it still looks like a close battle to me. And that kind of situation is EXACTLY what I would want this mechanic for. An ace in the hole, you might say. I think that a flight of Ogre IIs that are able to destroy themselves (Handicapping any further DPS from the mega, I might add) in order to destroy the last half of a Tempest's structure (Without a DCU) doesn't sound overpowered. I mean, the Megathron only has 125m3 drone bay. He's not gonna be able to do that trick twice. He's not gonna be able to use it as a primary weapon. Its a last-ditch, one-shot strike. Sacrifice something in hopes of not losing everything. Yeah, I'm not seeing how that particular situation paints this mechanic as overpowered. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.25 18:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Imiarr Timshae Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship. Possible. However, a few points- Ishkur has 25 mbit/s bandwidth, and with perfect skills a 50m3 drone bay. That means either 2 flights of light drones, 3 partial flights of medium drones, or 2 flights of 1 heavy drone. 5 light drones versus a hard target would do laughable damage. A small target would have to be sitting dead in space to receive full damage from them, and would have to be 100% honor tanked to be 1-shot-killed by them. 2 medium drones, once again, laughable damage to hard targets, mass differential would cause some damage to bleed off when hitting a small target, even more so if, once again, the target was moving. 1 heavy drone, once again, inconsequential damage to a hard target, mass differential would cause a large amount of bleedoff versus small targets, if indeed it can even catch them. This is not an instant-hit weapon. It can still be outrun like a missile. A travel-time mechanic would be reasonable to me; perhaps the drone slowly takes hull damage while MWDing after the target, and once it runs out of hull it simply explodes uselessly. Furthermore, as I noted earlier, a relaunch delay time would almost certainly be necessary. Thus, that Ishkur would have to wait, theoretically, 30 seconds before even launching the next flight of drones. Sorry, but I'm not seeing how an Ishkur suiciding drones into things would really change the battle. It'd only be handicapping its own ability to engage. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 00:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target? I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion. Unkillable damage over time attached to an enemy? Even less what I want than dedicated bomb-drones. Not at all my idea. Do not want. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:09:00 - [45] Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay!
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:22:00 - [46] Edited by: Garthran on 26/08/2009 03:25:49 Originally by: Lana Torrin Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay! Gosh, thanks, I never knew that! Missiles, you say? How interesting. Its almost as if they behave incredibly differently than my proposed mechanic. So I don't see much overlap. Thanks for your support, though! ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Garthran Edited by: Garthran on 26/08/2009 03:25:49 Originally by: Lana Torrin Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay! Gosh, thanks, I never knew that! Missiles, you say? How interesting. Its almost as if they behave incredibly differently than my proposed mechanic. So I don't see much overlap. Thanks for your support, though! Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:50:00 - [48] Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved. Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles. Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no". Thanks! ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Garthran Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved. Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles. Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no". Thanks! I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers).
3r5k1n3	Posted - 2009.08.26 06:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Garthran Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved. Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles. Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no". Thanks! I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers). And of course this is because you are a freakin' brilliant game developer with years of experience doing computer simulations of real world physics... Well let me suggest: 1) ** OFF AND DIE. 2) Commit suicied by anal intercourse with a hippotomus 3) Find a better way to be a ***.
Merovee Amarr Gorthaur Legion	Posted - 2009.08.26 06:31:00 - [51] hmm I wonder if missiles would work better? Of Mordor
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 07:16:00 - [52] Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content. Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 07:19:00 - [53] Originally by: Garthran Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content. Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad. He was just trolling me. It had nothing to do with your idea. FYI, I can see what you are getting at, I just think it will be abused by some players in specific ships (like me, in a domi or ishtar)
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 07:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Garthran Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved. Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles. Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no". Thanks! I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers). I'm proposing a mechanic that would have (at my current numbers) twice the volley damage of a comparable sized missile, with a theoretical cooldown much greater than 2x that of a comparable sized missile launcher. And you actually lose an aspect of your ship's firepower by using it. The pure low DPS values would make it not only impractical, but impossible to use as a primary attack, except in massive gank situations, which would surprisingly kill the target with or without drones. It is simply a way to give a death-or-glory ability to drone users. And as I said, I would obviously be against allowing fighters to suicide, and I think letting fighters behave normally is probably going to be a better use of a carrier pilot's time than suiciding wave after expensive wave of Berserker IIs into enemies. However, to satiate my own curiosity, I'm going to work out the comparison and possibly eat my own foot. Let's imagine perfect skills. A Thanatos with 15 fighter drones is generating 1875 drone DPS according to EFT. With 15 Berserker IIs, behaving normally, that same Thanatos would be dealing 772 DPS. With my proposed mechanic, the heavy drone average x-value would be 0.00006593. That would make the suicide damage of a Berserker 2 (with Drone Navigation at level 5) 1,038 (rounded off to 4 significant digits). A flight of 15 would then deal 15,570 volley damage. With my proposed 30 second relaunch delay, that's only 519 DPS, not accounting for drone travel time. That raw volley damage, too, would be modified by mass differential and velocity differential, so only static structures and capital ships would feel the full force of that attack, and they would generally shrug it off. A buffer tanked battleship would be heavily damaged, yes, but not one-shotted. Of course, someone might lolfit a bunch of drone navigation computers, which would of course up the damage potential, but that's no different from fitting BCUs or Magstabs. The fact that drone users also lack ship equipment to increase the damage output of their combat drones gives me all more reason to say "Throw us a bone!" And yes, if, say, and enemy dread was falling low into structure, you could recall all fighters and launch Beserkers to finish it off. But that would only be worth it if that same dread was tearing you down. Then, maybe, the suiciding drones would deal just enough damage to kill him. Or maybe recalling and relaunching drones would take too long, and he'd kill you. A situation in which it's your drones or your ship- that's what this is about. I think giving you that opportunity adds a bit of unpredictability to the game. Something to make combat a little more immersive, a little more dynamic, than just "Target, activate all modules, wait for the boom." Have I ably shown to you that this is not as overpowered as you think it is? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Garthran Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content. Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad. He was just trolling me. It had nothing to do with your idea. FYI, I can see what you are getting at, I just think it will be abused by some players in specific ships (like me, in a domi or ishtar) Above post was being written while you posted this, so chronologically it should come before >.> I apologize if it comes across as condescending, I'm a bit tired. Please let me know what you think. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Rawbin Hood Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.08.26 09:20:00 - [56] self destruct should do damage.... then i'd like to see damage drones ◄Brutor► The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count)
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.26 18:34:00 - [57] Originally by: Rawbin Hood self destruct should do damage.... then i'd like to see damage drones /me eyerolls. Fine, when you self-destruct, a large smartbomb goes of, killing your pod, too. Great. Has nothing to do with my topic. Please don't try to hijack like that. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.27 23:36:00 - [58] /me patiently awaits Lana Torrin's response ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.08.28 01:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Garthran Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target? I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion. Unkillable damage over time attached to an enemy? Even less what I want than dedicated bomb-drones. Not at all my idea. Do not want. Hardly unkillable, smartbombs. You thought you'd be shooting these drones once on target? Possibly, with equal or greater damage to the ship they're attached to. Otherwise I see no need or niche for these drones, for all else we've got missiles.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.28 06:44:00 - [60] I'm sorry, but to me saying "Why do you want suicide drones when we have missiles?" is kind of like "Why do you want ammo for hybrid weapons? We have plenty of ammo for projectile weapons!" Significantly different skillset, significantly different shipset, different ammunition planning. Projectile ammo is useless (in combat; I could just see someone trolling "You can still sell it!") to a hybrid weapon user. Similarly, missiles are useless to most drone ships. The only similarity is that they both run into things and explode. Which, by current logic, would equate motor vehicles in James Bond movies with bugs flying into your windshield on the highway. Bust out of the box, people. Give me a valid arguement. I've already shown the limited nature of the damage dealt. I've already shown how difficult this would be to use as a primary attack. Why is it so unreasonable an idea? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Robert0288 Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.08.28 07:50:00 - [61] I like this idea. For drone boat pilots its the giant 'FIRE EVERYTHING' from startrek which will end up in you loosing a good portion of your DPS. I support this death or glory mechanic.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.29 17:33:00 - [62] Anyone else have any ideas? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Belrend Coregaul	Posted - 2009.08.30 14:25:00 - [63] Not really. I might re-sub if this idea was given. I'm a drone-pilot and I loved working my way up to using all the (not-so-nifty) drone upgrades on my med-slots and such. Only to find drone-boats are utterly boring with no real fun side to them but right-click-attack target-AFK. This would actually let me suicide one of my 5 drones and giggle during missionrunning cause it's a fun new mechanic! Or perhaps when I'm ratting in 0.0 sec and that 1.7mil bounty BS is about to blow me up, but he's almost gone too.. I could suicide all 5 and cheer as his loot would pay for all those drones used and more.
Krystal Flores	Posted - 2009.09.01 02:48:00 - [64] seeing how i lose my drones freqently anyways, why not give them 1 last boom? just needs the be worked out
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.01 03:44:00 - [65] Originally by: Garthran I'm sorry, but to me saying "Why do you want suicide drones when we have missiles?" is kind of like "Why do you want ammo for hybrid weapons? We have plenty of ammo for projectile weapons!" Significantly different skillset, significantly different shipset, different ammunition planning. Projectile ammo is useless (in combat; I could just see someone trolling "You can still sell it!") to a hybrid weapon user. Similarly, missiles are useless to most drone ships. The only similarity is that they both run into things and explode. Which, by current logic, would equate motor vehicles in James Bond movies with bugs flying into your windshield on the highway. Bust out of the box, people. Give me a valid arguement. I've already shown the limited nature of the damage dealt. I've already shown how difficult this would be to use as a primary attack. Why is it so unreasonable an idea? Motive and logic is lacking, suicide attacks are the attacks of the desperate, loading up on explosives selling performance short. Why would anyone want to go into a fight like that when they can choose to go into it with fully operational drones doing their thing and staying operational? For disposable drones we have sentry drones, deploy and move away from them and if need be leave the field with them still there. That's plenty suicide drone right there. Having drones capable of crashing enemy ships for incredible damage opens up the can of suicide ships designed as fireships and who can forget the dart attack on Stargate Atlantis when 100 darts run smack into the shield, cool sure but is that the way we want things to go? One thing I would like to see is drones when they go into less than 10% armor unlocking the command of ramming the enemy. There you have your suicide drones. Now how would that be to program? I don't know. How much would people start chipping away at their own drones to achieve suicide drones artificially? I don't know. How much damage could a ramming drone be allowed to do, making it a viable choice worth the code it's written in without wrecking drone warfare as we know it? I don't know.
Krystal Flores	Posted - 2009.09.01 05:14:00 - [66] Originally by: Gautan Virdamot One thing I would like to see is drones when they go into less than 10% armor unlocking the command of ramming the enemy. well, how about they cant be used to suicide unless the are very low on health?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.01 08:35:00 - [67] Edited by: Garthran on 01/09/2009 08:41:44 Edited by: Garthran on 01/09/2009 08:38:32 Originally by: Gautan Virdamot suicide attacks are the attacks of the desperate Yes, I believe that's the point I've been trying to make. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot loading up on explosives selling performance short. Why would anyone want to go into a fight like that when they can choose to go into it with fully operational drones doing their thing and staying operational? I am more and more thinking that you have not actually read this thread. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot For disposable drones we have sentry drones, deploy and move away from them and if need be leave the field with them still there. That's plenty suicide drone right there. That's no different than leaving behind combat drones. That's not suicide. That's just waste. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Having drones capable of crashing enemy ships for incredible damage opens up the can of suicide ships designed as fireships and who can forget the dart attack on Stargate Atlantis when 100 darts run smack into the shield, cool sure but is that the way we want things to go? Never seen Stargate: Atlantis Movie was good, caught a couple episodes of the first series, wasn't interested. Blobs have us already, have you seen the ISD reports of the capital ship battles out in 0.0? And I'm really not sure where you're getting "incredible damage" from. A flight of 5 light drones would deal about as much damage as 10 light missiles would, versus the same target (so versus a fast-moving frigate... not much at all). Yup, definitely game breaking. As shown earlier, used as a damage-over-time mechanic this is less effective than simply using the drones in their current capacity. The ONLY advantage is the high value of the volley. Which, frankly, still isn't that high. I am not proposing new drones for the sole purpose of running into things, simply a new way to use the drones we have. No "fire ships." More "today IS a good day to die." Originally by: Gautan Virdamot One thing I would like to see is drones when they go into less than 10% armor unlocking the command of ramming the enemy. There you have your suicide drones. Now how would that be to program? I don't know. How much would people start chipping away at their own drones to achieve suicide drones artificially? I don't know. How much damage could a ramming drone be allowed to do, making it a viable choice worth the code it's written in without wrecking drone warfare as we know it? I don't know. This section is pretty much the idea presented in my thread, except for that silly 10% armor requisite. I'm fairly certain at this point that you're simply commenting on the thread title and have not read anything I've written. Good job. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Glospey	Posted - 2009.09.02 00:19:00 - [68] I didn't read everyone's replies so I apologize if it has already been mentioned but, what's wrong with a new class of drones? They can have weapons that do crap damage (maybe a 9mm machine gun equivalent or something) but are tipped with a warhead. You can use them as secondary weapons to do a bit of supplemental damage or volley them into someone/something?
Karan SaJet	Posted - 2009.09.02 00:34:00 - [69] Yeah make them the suicide drones and make me a Flack frigate like in homworld, capable of short range anti figter fire firing vollys of aoe explosive in proximity detonation to the target. You alredy have so many drone, light, medium, heavy, sentrys, ecm, fighters, support, mining and yet you want more oh yes give us back the mines like long time ago so we can cover a gate whit mines and destroy the suicide drone pilot befor he can pull out his drones.
Glospey	Posted - 2009.09.02 00:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Karan SaJet Yeah make them the suicide drones and make me a Flack frigate like in homworld, capable of short range anti figter fire firing vollys of aoe explosive in proximity detonation to the target. You alredy have so many drone, light, medium, heavy, sentrys, ecm, fighters, support, mining and yet you want more oh yes give us back the mines like long time ago so we can cover a gate whit mines and destroy the suicide drone pilot befor he can pull out his drones. Clearly, I missed the whole constructive part of your post so let me respond: wa.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.02 03:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Glospey Originally by: Karan SaJet Yeah make them the suicide drones and make me a Flack frigate like in homworld, capable of short range anti figter fire firing vollys of aoe explosive in proximity detonation to the target. You alredy have so many drone, light, medium, heavy, sentrys, ecm, fighters, support, mining and yet you want more oh yes give us back the mines like long time ago so we can cover a gate whit mines and destroy the suicide drone pilot befor he can pull out his drones. Clearly, I missed the whole constructive part of your post so let me respond: wa. God, that made my day. Thanks for that. And to respond to your earlier question, I'm against creating a whole new class because I don't want it to be a primary attack method. I want a unique means for drone users to get functionality similar to that of overheating weapons. Creating drones specifically for suiciding would be like making a gun that gets 5000% bonuses when overheating, but sucks when used normally. It takes a unique application of a mechanic and turns it into a necessity. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Korvin Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.02 04:19:00 - [72] Lets make suicide highsec attacks easier, right? The idea is awfull for game balance. Imagine a suicide Thorax with neut blaster overheated (1100 volley), and now with 5 med suicidal drones (lets say 200*5 = 1000), oh! and drones did 1 volley shoot (200+). So, we can have 2300+ damage, or even 3400, if we can make 2nd shot. Exxelent idea, lol, forget it.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.02 05:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Korvin Lets make suicide highsec attacks easier, right? The idea is awfull for game balance. Imagine a suicide Thorax with neut blaster overheated (1100 volley), and now with 5 med suicidal drones (lets say 200*5 = 1000), oh! and drones did 1 volley shoot (200+). So, we can have 2300+ damage, or even 3400, if we can make 2nd shot. Exxelent idea, lol, forget it. Highsec suicide ganks happen anyway. Adding a new gun isn't going to suddenly make them happen more often. Furthermore, the drones are going to do more damage to the target remaining active and firing while the host ship is being jammed/bbq'd by CONCORD than they would making kamikaze strikes, as illustrated by my response to Lana Torrin on the 2nd page. In the situation you presented the blasters would be doing easily 5x the damage of the drones. We should just remove blasters, they're encouraging ganks. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2009.09.02 10:09:00 - [74] balance issues. and would NEVER support this idea before suicide in hi-sec is either a exploit or impossible to do. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.02 16:57:00 - [75] Originally by: CrestoftheStars balance issues. and would NEVER support this idea before suicide in hi-sec is either a exploit or impossible to do. Making suicide bombing impossible goes directly against Eve's mindset. It's HIGH security, not COMPLETE security. CONCORD still has to have time to get there. I'm not a suicide bomber myself, and I'm sure I'd be angry if one of them got me. But fact is, if someone wants to sacrifice sec status and ISK in the attempt to steal loot from someone else, CCP says that's okay. I find your (incomplete) signature quote to be amusing, considering your post: "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both." ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.03 01:57:00 - [76] Edited by: Gautan Virdamot on 03/09/2009 01:58:28 Originally by: Garthran Edited by: Garthran on 01/09/2009 08:41:44 Edited by: Garthran on 01/09/2009 08:38:32 Originally by: Gautan Virdamot suicide attacks are the attacks of the desperate Yes, I believe that's the point I've been trying to make. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot loading up on explosives selling performance short. Why would anyone want to go into a fight like that when they can choose to go into it with fully operational drones doing their thing and staying operational? I am more and more thinking that you have not actually read this thread. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot For disposable drones we have sentry drones, deploy and move away from them and if need be leave the field with them still there. That's plenty suicide drone right there. That's no different than leaving behind combat drones. That's not suicide. That's just waste. Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Having drones capable of crashing enemy ships for incredible damage opens up the can of suicide ships designed as fireships and who can forget the dart attack on Stargate Atlantis when 100 darts run smack into the shield, cool sure but is that the way we want things to go? Never seen Stargate: Atlantis Movie was good, caught a couple episodes of the first series, wasn't interested. Blobs have us already, have you seen the ISD reports of the capital ship battles out in 0.0? And I'm really not sure where you're getting "incredible damage" from. A flight of 5 light drones would deal about as much damage as 10 light missiles would, versus the same target (so versus a fast-moving frigate... not much at all). Yup, definitely game breaking. As shown earlier, used as a damage-over-time mechanic this is less effective than simply using the drones in their current capacity. The ONLY advantage is the high value of the volley. Which, frankly, still isn't that high. I am not proposing new drones for the sole purpose of running into things, simply a new way to use the drones we have. No "fire ships." More "today IS a good day to die." Originally by: Gautan Virdamot One thing I would like to see is drones when they go into less than 10% armor unlocking the command of ramming the enemy. There you have your suicide drones. Now how would that be to program? I don't know. How much would people start chipping away at their own drones to achieve suicide drones artificially? I don't know. How much damage could a ramming drone be allowed to do, making it a viable choice worth the code it's written in without wrecking drone warfare as we know it? I don't know. This section is pretty much the idea presented in my thread, except for that silly 10% armor requisite. I'm fairly certain at this point that you're simply commenting on the thread title and have not read anything I've written. Good job. I read it, I just don't think it should be an option you start out with but rather something that develops as you get in trouble. As for drones being wasted, moving away from sentry drones they will still fire but you might know full well that you'll never be able to recover them, thus making them suicide drones, though of another fashion.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.06 17:01:00 - [77] any new feedback? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Dunpeal Caldari Presidential Whores Liquore di Fragola	Posted - 2009.09.06 18:00:00 - [78] To avoid or make it harder for this to be remotely used as a ganking tactic, use a health threshold, not the enemies, not the poor mindless drones, but the users ship, it IS you who should be in some bad sheets if you need to use this, so, make it something like 15% armor or below unlocks the suicide drones option. There 99% problems solved, i doubt people would turn ships into paper thin tanks just to use a 1-shot (or nearly) ability. ------------------------------------------------- My Past, my destiny... SAVE EVE-TV, make eve a bigger better universe!http://ww
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.07 03:18:00 - [79] Originally by: Dunpeal To avoid or make it harder for this to be remotely used as a ganking tactic, use a health threshold, not the enemies, not the poor mindless drones, but the users ship, it IS you who should be in some bad sheets if you need to use this, so, make it something like 15% armor or below unlocks the suicide drones option. There 99% problems solved, i doubt people would turn ships into paper thin tanks just to use a 1-shot (or nearly) ability. I've considered this as a possibility, but ultimately I think that it would be too restrictive. Overheating doesn't have a health threshold, and is used to facilitate ganking constantly. Suiciding your drones would actually be counter-productive in most high-sec suicide ganks, so I don't think any such threshold is really necessary. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Isis Dea Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.07 05:09:00 - [80] To avoid spamming... You'd introduce a cooldown with your drone bandwith, not allowing you to deploy drones a a good amount of time. ___ DUST 514 - CCP's First Person Shooter: It needs your input!
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.07 05:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Isis Dea To avoid spamming... You'd introduce a cooldown with your drone bandwith, not allowing you to deploy drones a a good amount of time. I mentioned the likelyhood of this being necessary; 30-second relaunch delay, which would force the suicide DPS of a flight of drones to be less than the firing DPS. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.09 02:34:00 - [82] Any new thoughts? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.12 12:18:00 - [83] I'd love to get some more input over the weekend ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.09.12 12:26:00 - [84] I think a better idea would be to introduce s special missiles that fly up to the target and shoot it instead of blowing up. Maybe we could call these special non-suicide missiles "drones"?
Cardiana	Posted - 2009.09.12 12:31:00 - [85] oh yes pls let them look like from stargate atlantis
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.12 18:01:00 - [86] Originally by: Gypsio III I think a better idea would be to introduce s special missiles that fly up to the target and shoot it instead of blowing up. Maybe we could call these special non-suicide missiles "drones"? Man, this topic really pulled out the trolls... ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:57:00 - [87] I get the feeling I won't be getting much more constructive input. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:58:00 - [88] How about naming them mines and getting it done with. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEP09
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.16 23:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Nova Fox How about naming them mines and getting it done with. Because... they're not mines? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2009.09.17 02:28:00 - [90] i still like this idea and hope it gets implemented.
Hester Shaw	Posted - 2009.09.17 02:47:00 - [91] Suicide drones already exist in-game. They're called 'goons'.
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.17 03:27:00 - [92] Originally by: Hester Shaw Suicide drones already exist in-game. They're called 'goons'. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.22 23:07:00 - [93] Any new thoughts? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente IceBlades Securities and Exchange United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:16:00 - [94] /me gives this another bump ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente IceBlades Securities and Exchange United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.09.29 18:20:00 - [95] I get the feeling its time to let this die. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
ark maphar	Posted - 2009.09.29 21:12:00 - [96] Originally by: Garthran I get the feeling its time to let this die. nooooo! we must fight for what we deserve! drone users UNITE!
Krist Valentine Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.10.03 12:23:00 - [97] Edited by: Krist Valentine on 03/10/2009 12:23:17 edit: sorry, mispost
Xavier Angelo	Posted - 2009.10.03 13:10:00 - [98] Edited by: Xavier Angelo on 03/10/2009 13:10:09 a relaunch delay would be 100% useless for mission or wormhole goers, i would love to get some extra damage out of my drones before they die to sleepers in a WH, but I'd rather just launch another drone and get a cooldown + lower dps
Moleclown Retribution. Inc. REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.03 16:06:00 - [99] It's a really cool idea, I can see how it wouldn't be overpowered, just something to give you that edge in the last minutes of a fight. It'd be interesting to see if drone boats would send one of their drone waves as a suicide first, and use the other/s for actual dps etc. It would make Eve that little bit more exciting, imagine pvp stories of 2 pilots throwing everything they had each other - overheating modules and suicide drones, it could even draw people in to play the game. And the other my Arbitrator got killed by a station camping Command ship or something. It'd be cool to at least damage him a little before I blew up.
Nathanael Ashcroft TAKAGI Corp	Posted - 2009.10.03 16:38:00 - [100] I really love this idea. Not overpowered and RP friendly. But a cooldown before launching more drone is a bit heavy as a draw back. Re-launch possibility should be instant and the 30 sec cooldown applying only on the "suicide" command. It should also use a new skill (not the Themodynamics one) that increase the run lenght. --- KB\|RP
The Tzar T-Wrecks Cult of War	Posted - 2009.10.03 17:35:00 - [101] As long it's balanced as you suggest this could be a good idea. I don't think it should be available to all ships as standard however. Either requiring a module to allow the suiciding of said drones or this option only available on a certain ship class. I think allowing EWAR drones to apply an increased amount of EWAR and/or AoE blast of the EWAR would be awesome. This could then allow things like web/paint/ECM/neut bombs. I've always wanted a web bubble...
Garthran Gallente IceBlades Securities and Exchange United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.10.04 03:05:00 - [102] Originally by: Nathanael Ashcroft Re-launch possibility should be instant and the 30 sec cooldown applying only on the "suicide" command. Good thought, this hadn't occured to me. Thanks for the support and input? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Garthran Gallente IceBlades Securities and Exchange United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.10.04 03:12:00 - [103] Originally by: The Tzar As long it's balanced as you suggest this could be a good idea. I don't think it should be available to all ships as standard however. Either requiring a module to allow the suiciding of said drones or this option only available on a certain ship class. I think allowing EWAR drones to apply an increased amount of EWAR and/or AoE blast of the EWAR would be awesome. This could then allow things like web/paint/ECM/neut bombs. I've always wanted a web bubble... I think requiring a module that might further gimp the user is excessive. Skill-based, just like overheating, sounds sufficient to me. And as far as the EWar drones, as I noted in the beginning of the thread, there is little chance that an EWar system would create a burst effect when compressed at high speeds... it would probably just break. I think that EWar drones are a little FOTM right now anyway, giving them the ability to have a boosted effect would be too much, in my honest opinion. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?

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