EVE Search - Ten hard questions for CCP

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Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.24 19:16:00 - [1] << I have a question for you, those who consistently ***** about CCPs work..see if YOU have the BALLS to answer these: 1. Have, or do, any of you work in the field of Software Entertainment (Games in specific)? >> Not Software Entertainment. I worked for a Software Development Company whose products carried multimillion dollar price tags. << 2. Do you have any experience in Programming complex code (not talking HTML, or even PHP here)? >> Yes I have and I'm vigorously trying to self-induce amnesia to forget it all. << 3. What is your age? >> Over 30 << 4. Have you volunteered to be a "volunteer"? Are you otherwise helping new players or others with queries in the game? >> Yes I have. Prolly far more experience than most << 5. Do you play the game, or do you just whine about it's relatively few problems? >> Yes I do play the game and the problems aren't "relatively few" nor entirely codebased. << CCP has created a game that (in my opinion) is brilliant. Do you guys honestly think that they're sitting there twiddling their thumbs now? >> Given the lack of communication, who knows what they're doing atm. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.24 19:16:00 - [2] << I have a question for you, those who consistently ***** about CCPs work..see if YOU have the BALLS to answer these: 1. Have, or do, any of you work in the field of Software Entertainment (Games in specific)? >> Not Software Entertainment. I worked for a Software Development Company whose products carried multimillion dollar price tags. << 2. Do you have any experience in Programming complex code (not talking HTML, or even PHP here)? >> Yes I have and I'm vigorously trying to self-induce amnesia to forget it all. << 3. What is your age? >> Over 30 << 4. Have you volunteered to be a "volunteer"? Are you otherwise helping new players or others with queries in the game? >> Yes I have. Prolly far more experience than most << 5. Do you play the game, or do you just whine about it's relatively few problems? >> Yes I do play the game and the problems aren't "relatively few" nor entirely codebased. << CCP has created a game that (in my opinion) is brilliant. Do you guys honestly think that they're sitting there twiddling their thumbs now? >> Given the lack of communication, who knows what they're doing atm. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.24 20:25:00 - [3] << I do, however, think they need to hire someone who knows something about human-computer interaction (HCI)... >> First they need to hire someone who knows something about human-human interaction (Customer Support). Half of the complaints would disappear with a regular comment from an official source. Not anything as unrealistic as an ETA for something. Just an acknowledgement that "Yes, I've seen this and will give it some thought". Occasionally followed by "I gave this some thought and this is what I think...". And definately someone to state quickly what is and is not within the rules of normal gameplay. Good communication gives your programmers the time they need to get things done. I can't give my boss any firm ETA on when a complicate project will be finished until I near the end of the project. But what keeps him from firing me is I give reports on my progress and show that I'm earning my paycheck. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.24 20:25:00 - [4] << I do, however, think they need to hire someone who knows something about human-computer interaction (HCI)... >> First they need to hire someone who knows something about human-human interaction (Customer Support). Half of the complaints would disappear with a regular comment from an official source. Not anything as unrealistic as an ETA for something. Just an acknowledgement that "Yes, I've seen this and will give it some thought". Occasionally followed by "I gave this some thought and this is what I think...". And definately someone to state quickly what is and is not within the rules of normal gameplay. Good communication gives your programmers the time they need to get things done. I can't give my boss any firm ETA on when a complicate project will be finished until I near the end of the project. But what keeps him from firing me is I give reports on my progress and show that I'm earning my paycheck. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.24 21:44:00 - [5] I don't question CCP's commitment to programming Eve. I question their understanding of supporting a MMOG. Supporting a MMOG is more than programming and delivering content. Supporting the playerbase is extremely important. That means communicating with them, staying on top of important issues, providing regular updates, and following the policies that they implement. CCP hasn't done any of that very well. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.24 21:44:00 - [6] I don't question CCP's commitment to programming Eve. I question their understanding of supporting a MMOG. Supporting a MMOG is more than programming and delivering content. Supporting the playerbase is extremely important. That means communicating with them, staying on top of important issues, providing regular updates, and following the policies that they implement. CCP hasn't done any of that very well. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:09:00 - [7] << 8. We have banned players for hacking and cheating. The EULA is clear about what rules players need to follow. Hall of shame is something that we will consider, but I can't promise anything. Anyway should it not be Space of shame? :) >> If you implement a Hall/Space/Whatever of Shame, violating the privacy of the account holder, and all gloves come off. Removed, threats are not allowed - Wrangler I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:09:00 - [8] << 8. We have banned players for hacking and cheating. The EULA is clear about what rules players need to follow. Hall of shame is something that we will consider, but I can't promise anything. Anyway should it not be Space of shame? :) >> If you implement a Hall/Space/Whatever of Shame, violating the privacy of the account holder, and all gloves come off. Removed, threats are not allowed - Wrangler I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:40:00 - [9] << Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. >> Call it what you want but it doesn't change that it's true. And if your best retort is a flame, then you must not have anything intelligent as a reply. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:40:00 - [10] << Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. >> Call it what you want but it doesn't change that it's true. And if your best retort is a flame, then you must not have anything intelligent as a reply. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:46:00 - [11] << Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. >> See my reply on page 1. << Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. >> I'd prefer to think that you automatically responded with what most people that have any experience playing a MMORPG would have said: This would not be the actions of a professional. Personally, I'm fairly certain it violates their own ToS (you know the part about no public discussions of consequences, ect...) I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:46:00 - [12] << Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. >> See my reply on page 1. << Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. >> I'd prefer to think that you automatically responded with what most people that have any experience playing a MMORPG would have said: This would not be the actions of a professional. Personally, I'm fairly certain it violates their own ToS (you know the part about no public discussions of consequences, ect...) I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 18:22:00 - [13] In regards to this Hall/Space of Shame bs, this is from another thread that Pann just closed: "...Action is underway. This thread will be locked per forum rules that state we will not publicly discuss actions taken against a player and this matter is not open to debate." So GM Regius, whose policy has precendence: CCP's or your company's? You can't rightly consider something that is expressedly against CCP policy, now can you? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 18:22:00 - [14] In regards to this Hall/Space of Shame bs, this is from another thread that Pann just closed: "...Action is underway. This thread will be locked per forum rules that state we will not publicly discuss actions taken against a player and this matter is not open to debate." So GM Regius, whose policy has precendence: CCP's or your company's? You can't rightly consider something that is expressedly against CCP policy, now can you? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:42:00 - [15] << Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. >> Actually, it's best I don't relax. I'm one of those people that are safer to be around when they're angry. When I get calm, it means I'm resolved to do something that isn't pretty. << I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. >> By all means, do tell us this successful MMORPG that violates customer privacy. I sure haven't heard of it. AC doesn't. EQ doesn't. AO doesn't. DAoC doesn't. UO doesn't. Who am I missing? Right now I'm viewing a situation where the GMs do not appear to be under the control of the developer. Conflicting statements from the developers and the GMs support this. Bad judgement, imo, has been exercised repeatedly by the GM staff by involving themselves in player affairs innapropriately. If the GMs cannot be trusted to follow the policies as presented to us, then we cannot trust to be treated fairly in any situation. I do not pay anyone to treat me unfairly or disrespectfully. They are getting the same treatment from me as they provide, in my opinion. So long as CCP cannot be bothered addressing important issues they are disrespectful in the treatment of myself and the rest of their customers. So long as I cannot be sure of the actions of their representatives, they will not get an ounce of slack from me. And if you're willing to put up that type of treatment quietly, more power to you. I, however, am not a sheep that goes quietly to the shearing. Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:43:04 Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:44:09 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:42:00 - [16] << Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. >> Actually, it's best I don't relax. I'm one of those people that are safer to be around when they're angry. When I get calm, it means I'm resolved to do something that isn't pretty. << I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. >> By all means, do tell us this successful MMORPG that violates customer privacy. I sure haven't heard of it. AC doesn't. EQ doesn't. AO doesn't. DAoC doesn't. UO doesn't. Who am I missing? Right now I'm viewing a situation where the GMs do not appear to be under the control of the developer. Conflicting statements from the developers and the GMs support this. Bad judgement, imo, has been exercised repeatedly by the GM staff by involving themselves in player affairs innapropriately. If the GMs cannot be trusted to follow the policies as presented to us, then we cannot trust to be treated fairly in any situation. I do not pay anyone to treat me unfairly or disrespectfully. They are getting the same treatment from me as they provide, in my opinion. So long as CCP cannot be bothered addressing important issues they are disrespectful in the treatment of myself and the rest of their customers. So long as I cannot be sure of the actions of their representatives, they will not get an ounce of slack from me. And if you're willing to put up that type of treatment quietly, more power to you. I, however, am not a sheep that goes quietly to the shearing. Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:43:04 Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:44:09 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:14:00 - [17] << Jash...why don't your calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? >> The quote is accurate and the usage is correct as "Their's" :D Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 20:14:41 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:14:00 - [18] << Jash...why don't your calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? >> The quote is accurate and the usage is correct as "Their's" :D Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 20:14:41 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 19:25:00 - [19] << I think ccp is growing and improving. The game is greatly improved since beta. Ironbuck is right on. I like the questions and the fact ccp answered some of them. Jash, the company's name is Microsoft Corporation and the game is AC. Off the main page its under CODE OF CONDUCT Update. The link is http://microsoftgamesinsider.com/AC1/ac1-coc-macros.htm . >> I went and looked from the previous poster's url. I stand corrected somewhat. The fact that page only covers a very specific category, macroing combat. But AC does not have a Hall of Shame for every instance of someone getting banned. And if I played AC, chances are high that would be almost enough for me to cancel immediately. Despite the fact that I don't exploit in the least. Anyone that thinks holding people up for ridicule and mocking as a part of their punishment is just plain childish. note I wouldn't exactly hold AC as a paragon for what should be done to exploiters either. Their policy of "there is no exploit, only mistakes we made" hurt them for years. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 19:25:00 - [20] << I think ccp is growing and improving. The game is greatly improved since beta. Ironbuck is right on. I like the questions and the fact ccp answered some of them. Jash, the company's name is Microsoft Corporation and the game is AC. Off the main page its under CODE OF CONDUCT Update. The link is http://microsoftgamesinsider.com/AC1/ac1-coc-macros.htm . >> I went and looked from the previous poster's url. I stand corrected somewhat. The fact that page only covers a very specific category, macroing combat. But AC does not have a Hall of Shame for every instance of someone getting banned. And if I played AC, chances are high that would be almost enough for me to cancel immediately. Despite the fact that I don't exploit in the least. Anyone that thinks holding people up for ridicule and mocking as a part of their punishment is just plain childish. note I wouldn't exactly hold AC as a paragon for what should be done to exploiters either. Their policy of "there is no exploit, only mistakes we made" hurt them for years. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 20:33:00 - [21] << Jash, you're missing the point entirely. >> No I'm not. I don't believe that the public humiliation of anyone, whether they're guilty or not, is anything a professional developer should do or even need to do. You said it yourself that Microsoft implemented to repair their reputation after they screwed it up themselves. Turbine's policy of "No such thing as exploits" caused their entire problem until it came to head with the platinum scarab 'bug' that caused a major database rollback, or watch the economy meltdown. Microsoft had to do it because of their own actions prior. You say it yourself: << When AC's reputation as a cheater's haven became widespread and they began to lose subscribers because of it, Microsoft announced they were stepping up enforcement. Nobody believed them. Microsoft said "really really we're doing it!" Nobody believed them. Microsoft said "Please buy our new game, Asheron's Call 2. We'll enforce our code of conduct, honest!" Nobody believed them. The Hall of Shame was done to give Microsoft credibility. Given Microsoft's weak record, without proof nobody inside OR outside the game would believe that they had suddenly grown a spine. So Microsoft took this step to show everyone that whatever had happened in the past, they were enforcing their code of conduct NOW. >> Their record was weak because they spent a year specifically stating that they wouldn't ban people for exploiting. Nobody has any trouble believing SOE/Verant, Mythic or Funcom will will ban you faster than you can blink without some childish Hall of Shame. Why? Because their actions (not their words) have shown they will ban you if they catch you. And the majority of the people here that like the idea are just waiting for 1 thing: j0rt's, Lord Zap's or Ywev's name to appear their so they can start cheering and razzing like 5 year olds. So, no, I don't support something like a Hall of Shame. It isn't necessary and promotes even more childish behavior. << Whether CCP has credibility about its code of conduct enforcement is more relevant. By no means are they in the depths like Microsoft was; however, the fact is that there are well-known exploiters who for some reason still have accounts. >> Many people would love to call what m0o and others do exploiting. But there's a problem with that: CCP hasn't stated clearly and decisively that any of their actions are exploits. So until CCP states such there's no point in going any further. So those 'well-known exploiters' are only exploiters in your mind. Until CCP says they are, yours or my thoughts on their activities is irrelevant. Edited by: Jash Illian on 26/06/2003 20:40:13 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 20:33:00 - [22] << Jash, you're missing the point entirely. >> No I'm not. I don't believe that the public humiliation of anyone, whether they're guilty or not, is anything a professional developer should do or even need to do. You said it yourself that Microsoft implemented to repair their reputation after they screwed it up themselves. Turbine's policy of "No such thing as exploits" caused their entire problem until it came to head with the platinum scarab 'bug' that caused a major database rollback, or watch the economy meltdown. Microsoft had to do it because of their own actions prior. You say it yourself: << When AC's reputation as a cheater's haven became widespread and they began to lose subscribers because of it, Microsoft announced they were stepping up enforcement. Nobody believed them. Microsoft said "really really we're doing it!" Nobody believed them. Microsoft said "Please buy our new game, Asheron's Call 2. We'll enforce our code of conduct, honest!" Nobody believed them. The Hall of Shame was done to give Microsoft credibility. Given Microsoft's weak record, without proof nobody inside OR outside the game would believe that they had suddenly grown a spine. So Microsoft took this step to show everyone that whatever had happened in the past, they were enforcing their code of conduct NOW. >> Their record was weak because they spent a year specifically stating that they wouldn't ban people for exploiting. Nobody has any trouble believing SOE/Verant, Mythic or Funcom will will ban you faster than you can blink without some childish Hall of Shame. Why? Because their actions (not their words) have shown they will ban you if they catch you. And the majority of the people here that like the idea are just waiting for 1 thing: j0rt's, Lord Zap's or Ywev's name to appear their so they can start cheering and razzing like 5 year olds. So, no, I don't support something like a Hall of Shame. It isn't necessary and promotes even more childish behavior. << Whether CCP has credibility about its code of conduct enforcement is more relevant. By no means are they in the depths like Microsoft was; however, the fact is that there are well-known exploiters who for some reason still have accounts. >> Many people would love to call what m0o and others do exploiting. But there's a problem with that: CCP hasn't stated clearly and decisively that any of their actions are exploits. So until CCP states such there's no point in going any further. So those 'well-known exploiters' are only exploiters in your mind. Until CCP says they are, yours or my thoughts on their activities is irrelevant. Edited by: Jash Illian on 26/06/2003 20:40:13 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.27 21:24:00 - [23] CCP outsources their GM staff to my understanding. That's half the problem right there, imo. Outsourcing customer support for a business like this is a pooch screw waiting to happen. Oversight is difficult to impossible to maintain when outsourcing. And enterprises like these need constant oversight to ensure the policoes and procedures are being followed to the letter. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.27 21:24:00 - [24] CCP outsources their GM staff to my understanding. That's half the problem right there, imo. Outsourcing customer support for a business like this is a pooch screw waiting to happen. Oversight is difficult to impossible to maintain when outsourcing. And enterprises like these need constant oversight to ensure the policoes and procedures are being followed to the letter. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante

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