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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:41:00 -
[1]
With the introduction of 'bays' that CCP claims 'can be added to anything, and have any sort of rules applied to them', I give you the Mini-Carrier.
The idea is simple- a Battleship sized ship, able to use jump gates, doesn't have a jump drive, and can fly five fighters, with it's fighter bay holding a total of ten. In support of it's fighters each ship is equipped with eight high slots and eight weapon hardpoints (guns or missiles, depending on race) and bonuses to MEDIUM sized weapons for their respective races. The bonuses will vary per design but will consist of a very large range bonus (think Vulture class range for medium railguns, other races will have similar range for projectiles, missiles, lasers) and a tracking bonus and damage bonus.
The total DPS output won't exceed current peak outputs, so no massive gank ships will come out of this. Tanks will be on par with Tier 3 bs, with the grid and CPU configured to allow a 'normal' tank for a BS, along with the usual MWDs and cap injectors. The grid/cpu will be restricted in such a fashion as to not allow the -effective- use of large weapons. Drone bays/bandwidth will be included, but without drone bonuses, similar to carriers.
The idea is for the fighters to be the primary source of DPS with the medium weapons as supplemental point defense against support targets.
First pass ship stats to follow.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:42:00 -
[2]
<reserved>
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 12:43:00 -
[3]
<reserved>
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 12:43:00 -
[4]
<reserved>
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 12:44:00 -
[5]
<reserved>
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.08.25 12:44:00 -
[6]
<reserved>
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:53:00 -
[7]
Decent concept, but overpowered. A carrier doesn't have even 1 slot for point defense, just drones. So why would a BS carrier get 8 medium guns? Take out the guns, make it use drones only. Give it a bonus to shield/armor transporters along with the drone bonuses, make room for only 5 fighters in a fighter bay + another 300 m3 in a drone bay for non-fighter drones, and you have what I think is an acceptable mini-carrier. But I believe this would be a tier 4 BS  Unless there's a tier 4 BS floating out there somewhere I don't know about.
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Mad Maulkin
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:53:00 -
[8]
what the hell are you doing?
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:57:00 -
[9]
could just redesign the black ops :p
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i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |
Lyta Jhonson
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Posted - 2009.08.25 13:59:00 -
[10]
This may be a troll but taking in account that OP is known for his clueless blaster whines I bet his is truly don't realise how MASSIVLY-OMGWTF-OVERKILL-IWIN-OVERPOWERED his designs are.
But outside of mentioned stats, idea of sub-capital fighter carrier is appealing and I believe was suggested before. 2-4 launched fighters with 8-6 large weapons should be more reasonable. Also may be a good fifth subsystem for strategic cruisers with T3 miniaturized fighters... or for T3 battleships.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:10:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Lyta Jhonson
This may be a troll but taking in account that OP is known for his clueless blaster whines I bet his is truly don't realise how MASSIVLY-OMGWTF-OVERKILL-IWIN-OVERPOWERED his designs are.
But outside of mentioned stats, idea of sub-capital fighter carrier is appealing and I believe was suggested before. 2-4 launched fighters with 8-6 large weapons should be more reasonable. Also may be a good fifth subsystem for strategic cruisers with T3 miniaturized fighters... or for T3 battleships.
How are they overpowered? The designs have the exact same HP/tank as existing Tier3 BS, and as an example of firepower: 8x 250mm T2 rails with CN Antimatter does 313 dps. That, coupled with the fighter DPS at maximum skills (which requires fighters 5, which is no quick train) is comparable to existing BS DPS numbers.
All of that DPS is also 100% dependent on fighters which can be shot down/destroyed, and while cost is never a justification, they are very expensive compared to drones and players probably aren't very interested in losing too many.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:25:00 -
[12]
Its not overpowered because of the dps it does, but because of the multiple roles it can do simultaneously. A carrier is supposed to launch fighters and RR a fleet. It does not get guns. At all. Any. So why should a "mini-carrier" get 8 guns? No matter what size. A carrier does less dps than its closest combat cap ship counter-part, the dread. But it can send out fighters and RR the fleet. I think a mini-carrier should do the same. A little less dps than other BS, but can send out fighters and RR fleet. Not send out fighters to take out large targets, and take down small to mid sized targets with 8 guns. As a drone boat, it is already a ship that can take out any size ship with different size drones. It doesn't need medium guns to improve that even more. What you are designing is what many would call a solo-pwnmobile
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Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
All of that DPS is also 100% dependent on fighters which can be shot down/destroyed, and while cost is never a justification, they are very expensive compared to drones and players probably aren't very interested in losing too many.
And how exactly is ALL of the dps 100% dependent on fighters if you give it 8 guns? You basically made a ferox with a rokh tank and fighters.
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miss Hail
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:32:00 -
[14]
and where are tier 4 BSs?
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Lyta Jhonson
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
How are they overpowered? ...
Full set of bonused medium weapons on BS hull is overpowered alone even without fighters. With the bonuses you propose medium guns on such ships will be superior to anything HACs can offer (with the damage levels comparable to command ships but together with massive range bonus). Fit few Ineria stabilizers and get a perfect replacement for long range HAC while still retaining better HP buffer.
Or you can fit blasters and together with fighters you get ultimate close range ganking machine instantly making all other close range BSes useless.
5 fighters with 20% damage per level? Thats an equivalent of 10 fighters with max skills? Who needs a carrier when?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lyta Jhonson
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
How are they overpowered? ...
Full set of bonused medium weapons on BS hull is overpowered alone even without fighters. With the bonuses you propose medium guns on such ships will be superior to anything HACs can offer (with the damage levels comparable to command ships but together with massive range bonus). Fit few Ineria stabilizers and get a perfect replacement for long range HAC while still retaining better HP buffer.
Or you can fit blasters and together with fighters you get ultimate close range ganking machine instantly making all other close range BSes useless.
5 fighters with 20% damage per level? Thats an equivalent of 10 fighters with max skills? Who needs a carrier when?
Ok, so remove the damage and tracking bonuses. And lol@ the idea of the ship as a hac replacement with a few istabs. They have carrier level speed and lots of mass, with high inertia modifiers. No way will they ever be hac replacements.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Abrazzar on 25/08/2009 15:12:00
5 skill bonuses on a sub-capital T1 ship = overpowered.
Also, again just 4 times the same ship with a different model = boring.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:28:00 -
[18]
also if your gonna suggest ideas get them right - caldari get shield resist bonus rather than shield boost amount.
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ACE81
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: ACE81 on 25/08/2009 15:44:36
My Idea to fix this
Skill Requirements: Advanced spaceship command 5, Racial Battleship 5, Drones 5
Structure: 5500
Armor: 6000
Shields: 7500
Shield Resists: Racial Standard
Armor Resists: Racial Standard
Cargo Capacity: 475m3
Drone Capacity: 125m3/75m3 bandwidth
Fighter Bay Capacity: 50,000m3 / 5x fighters bandwidth
Mass: 115,000,000 kg
Volume (Unpackaged/Packaged):
Inertia Modifier: 0.13
Targeting Range: 85km
Max Locked Targets: 6
Scan Resolution: 70mm
Sensor Strength: 32
Max Velocity: 50m/sec
Ship Warp Speed: 3.0AU/sec
CPU: 1000
Grid: 5000
High Slots: 6
Mid Slots: 4-6
Low Slots: 4-6
Hard points: 1 Missile or turret with bonuses to small weapons Anti Drone weapon perhaps lol, and racial logistics for shield or armor (no Range bonus tho need logistic cruisers to remain useful.)
Upgrade Hardpoints (Rig Slots): 3
Rig Size: Large
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Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 16:11:00 -
[20]
How about making it a battlecruiser. I'm not a military buff but I know the US Navy has some "mini-carriers" for launching helicopters and vertical-takeoff planes (i.e. Harriers). How about an agile little Battlecruiser that can launch either 2 fighters or five heavy drones, has no weapon hardpoints, and has decent speed and tanking ability?
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Tamahra
Gallente
Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.08.25 16:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tamahra on 25/08/2009 16:13:45
if it doesnt leave the three other battleships in the dust and makes them useless, then id support the idea.
there had to be a specific situation where such a battleship would be useful for, while other bs still remain useful as well
Dust514 |
el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.08.25 16:17:00 -
[22]
So ... what you're looking for is a Domi that can use fighters and more guns? But probably cost 5x as much and waste important developer time. Because the existing Domi isn't already an awesome ship ... right? Right? 
Bellum, stop posting.
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Rashi Nerha
Gallente
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
(in addition to the standard 5% damage bonus per level applied to fighters by the fighter skill)
?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
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Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:25:00 -
[24]
The idea itself has merits, I would leave the balancing details to CCP though.
But hey the idea is cool for a different ship. Wouldn't midn watching this if its balanced (not overpowered).
Ia gree with a smaller drone bay (5 fighters + 300m3 sounds about fine), and less bonuses (either remove/nerf fighter bonus or guns bonus).
WIS is an expansion which allows EVE players to wear leather and walk around stations.
Dust514 is a console shooter/rts which will tie into EVE and affect sov. |
Mr Reason
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:56:00 -
[25]
Sorry, it's too versatile; can easily attack cruiser size ships and still do good BS damage. I don't see a need for it and it doesn't add anything. I'd much rather have anti-cap BS's. Essentially BS size dreads, not full dread damage ofcourse but the same limitation; ultra short range, incapable of hitting anything smaller than the moon and moving faster than a snail.
The trick to having a good amount of ships is to NOT have them be versatile, that way you get the rock, paper, scissor thing and while you think that might be bad, it's actually good.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:11:00 -
[26]
So basically a battleship with a battleship-sized tank and battleship-sized DPS, with the versatility of fighters and the ability to track smaller targets.
As soon as my stealth bomber gets 8 high slots (with enough launcher slots + PG + CPU to fit more torp launchers).
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OrcephDrake
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Posted - 2009.08.25 21:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 25/08/2009 21:56:14
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 25/08/2009 21:56:00
The idea is pretty sweet. I mean the IDEA is. The way you are implementing it is debatable as we can all see the auguments already posted I am not even gonna try to make a point. I just like the idea of having a "legal" carrier like ship floating around for my lvl 4/5 missions.
Now all we have to do is work out rrr kinks in the design and beg CCP over and over and over again! WOOT and then some shining dev guy will descend from Heaven with chuck norris and take the idea into consideration. But we all know Chuck Norris.. that guy... he doesn't read dev forums he stairs them down till they till him what he wants to know. So we better prepare of the might one.
PS i am bored.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.08.26 10:45:00 -
[28]
sweet idea seems balanced ccp thoughts ?
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2009.08.26 11:26:00 -
[29]
I like the concept of a BS hull fielding fighters in general.
How would this idea perform in an RR BS gang fitted with a bunch of medium RR mods, rather than with guns? EFT makes it look pretty sexy to me, but I admit my EFT skills are not the finest.
Should it have a role bonus to Drone Control Unit I CPU use?
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Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:05:00 -
[30]
what happened to all the tier 4's did they all get insta ganked ?
Maths FTW :)
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