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Salvage steeling is getting beyond a joke!!

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robocop152	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:00:00 - [1] Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income. I think they should stop people being about to scan out and steel from mission area's. Please guys in charge change this as its got to the point where I am getting raided every mission. And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I love eve except this one part. Sorry my 1st post is a moan.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:07:00 - [2] Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/08/2009 22:15:51 Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/08/2009 22:15:30 Just move out of that mission hub. Been doing missions for 3 years, never had someone raiding my mission. Other than that: now that you have started posting it's time to quit doing it and look some pages back for one of those 42434525467854 threads about ninja looters and read at least one of them. It's an intended mechanic and won't change. Peroid. There are ways to deal with it. Do it or suck it up. But stop whining on the forum. EDIT: First page of the Mission & Complexes Subforum. 10 pages. Read it. Linkage
Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:08:00 - [3] Mate I hate to point it out to you, and Im sure others will prove what Im saying, but CCP said it themselves, it is impossible for someone to steal "YOUR" salvage, and until its in your hold, its not yours, its anyone's and thats CCP's take on the matter, they have posted quite a few times on this. Im sorry if you dont like that, but thats really not anyones problem but yours.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:09:00 - [4] Yeah, they should remove wreck ownership completely so that people no longer (wrongly) feel entitled to it. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Mike C Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:51:00 - [5] Its not stealing, its not yours. Deal with it, you are wrong. __________________________________________________ Originally by: Mike C Trolls - We keep Humanity alive... and kicking...
Garthran Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders	Posted - 2009.08.25 22:55:00 - [6] Originally by: robocop152 Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income. I think they should stop people being about to scan out and steel from mission area's. Please guys in charge change this as its got to the point where I am getting raided every mission. And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I love eve except this one part. Sorry my 1st post is a moan. If you're getting raided every mission, I'd call that harassment and suggest you petition it. However, I believe you're exaggerating, and I agree with the others here- move out of the mission hub or deal with it. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:04:00 - [7] Been posted before, and I'm sure you'll love this one OP, along with anyone else who doesn't like ninja salvagers, make salvaging free open wrecks a flagged offense. With this, when you fire on the ninja, his corp or gang will then warp in and destroy your ship, or your corp will warp in and when you just wanted to do some easy missions for isk and salvage, you'll be engaged in a nice little war that will take your time away from doing missions. Really, which would be the easier path for you in the long run? --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
Nub Sauce	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:10:00 - [8] Originally by: robocop152 Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income. I think they should stop people being about to scan out and steel from mission area's. Please guys in charge change this as its got to the point where I am getting raided every mission. And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I love eve except this one part. Sorry my 1st post is a moan. One time I got salvage jacked... I then never ran missions in that hub again. I've also never had my missions invaded again. Just don't mission int he popular systems. Problem solved.
robocop152	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:18:00 - [9] Just as I though u all give it the "its not urs" stuff then fine if u wanna play it that way under law salvage belongs to the 1st person that finds it, and being as I was the one that killed the NPC's, that means I found it 1st so it is mine. The fact that u all prolly do it to means u'll say whatever makes u feel less of a thief.
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:26:00 - [10] Originally by: robocop152 Just as I though u all give it the "its not urs" stuff then fine if u wanna play it that way under law salvage belongs to the 1st person that finds it, and being as I was the one that killed the NPC's, that means I found it 1st so it is mine. The fact that u all prolly do it to means u'll say whatever makes u feel less of a thief. You found the wreck, not the salvaged product that the wreck becomes when it enters your cargo hold . Many people wouldn't mind being called a thief, but when the people who make the game you are willing to pay for say it isn't theft, well it's really hard to argue otherwise. Again, would you prefer to have the "thieves" flagged for theft so you can fire on them? That would make you happy when those gangs warp in and then destroy your ship in a 10 vs 1 fight --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:39:00 - [11] Originally by: robocop152 Just as I though u all give it the "its not urs" stuff then fine if u wanna play it that way under law salvage belongs to the 1st person that finds it, and being as I was the one that killed the NPC's, that means I found it 1st so it is mine. The fact that u all prolly do it to means u'll say whatever makes u feel less of a thief. That's like flying into a roid belt and claiming all roids for yourself 'cause you saw them first.
OrcephDrake	Posted - 2009.08.25 23:49:00 - [12] Edited by: OrcephDrake on 25/08/2009 23:49:31 Robocop man... i feel for u but I have been playing this game for over 3 years actually.. frak i dont know hwo long.. Never mind the point is i dont have that happen to me. Its because I pick agents further away from the main mission hub areas. Dont run mission around high populated areas ones u start doing like lvl 3 and above. Cuz seriously I am annoyed by the idea too but it happens.. it sucks... its the way it is.. CCP wont change it. I am not saying its not rightfully ours.. i am not saying u suck.. and i am not saying pirates are better then ninjas.. just dont get mad just listen.. move away! Think about all those poor lonely lvl 4 agents out there all alone... hey you! out there all alone.. in the cold.. can u feel me!!!!!!!!!! OH wait what. I think i got the lyrics wrong.. dam!
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.08.26 00:20:00 - [13] 1 salvage dosnt belong tyo you 2 read the dev responses to it 3 also read where it tells you the server dosnt recinose the salvage as yours untill its in YOUR hold 4 do some reserch before you come here and cryu your little eyes out 5 locator agent will run tomorrow and no doubt by posting this here ninjas will be coming for you Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.26 00:25:00 - [14] Originally by: robocop152 I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. Hey! Who the hell are you calling lazy? I work very hard at my chosen profession! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.26 01:22:00 - [15] Originally by: robocop152 these people show up and can steel all ur salvage The correct spelling would be "steal" and "your". Originally by: robocop152 then some lazy thief just shows up and steels You can only steal something that belongs to someone else. Since wrecks belong to no one. You can't steal them. Originally by: robocop152 I don't pvp EvE is a PvP game. Originally by: robocop152 And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I won't but that doesn't make it any less true.
El Liptonez	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:01:00 - [16] Oh hey, thought you might wanna read this. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1143161 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1140081 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1128088 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1136730 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1120748 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1116980 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115347 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115497 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115121 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115359 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1114874 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115387 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1138530 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1067174 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122548 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1113790 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1109936 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1145299 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1146536 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1147386 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1149102
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:21:00 - [17] Originally by: El Liptonez Oh hey, thought you might wanna read this. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1143161 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1140081 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1128088 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1136730 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1120748 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1116980 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115347 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115497 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115121 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115359 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1114874 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115387 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1138530 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1067174 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122548 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1113790 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1109936 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1145299 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1146536 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1147386 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1149102 Pew Pew Lazorz!!!
Barrus Inane	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:35:00 - [18] I am sure there is somewhere in there about my idea of salvage rights in all those links. And yeah, eve is a pvp world. I would love to get into a little mini war over salvage. Would be fun! Either way, they should just program in salvage rights to the grid system. If owner is on grid, salvaging is a flag, they have claimant over it. Should they leave, first to claim get's it, and all corresponding modules, jet cans, etc floating on grid unsecured too as it is abandoned. Make the salvaging a flag, make leaving so that jet cans are not a flag. Both sides win.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Barrus Inane I am sure there is somewhere in there about my idea of salvage rights in all those links. I thought it would be a link of posts by CCP representatives that state quite clearly that salvaging in not theft.. The stuff IN the wreck is yours (I disagree that rat loot and player loot is treated differently) but the wreck its self isn't.
robocop152	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:09:00 - [20] 1st off what does it matter how i spell things pritty sad to pick on that but hay. 2nd eve is not just a pvp if it were there would be no NPC rats or agents. I really don't see the point in posting here as most of u just seem to post to be nasty which is fine for most but not for me. I won't be back.
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:13:00 - [21] Originally by: robocop152 1st off what does it matter how i spell things pritty sad to pick on that but hay. 2nd eve is not just a pvp if it were there would be no NPC rats or agents. I really don't see the point in posting here as most of u just seem to post to be nasty which is fine for most but not for me. I won't be back. Most likely you will, and you still haven't answered the biggest question, if wrecks become flagged, would you really want corps warping in to kill your mission running ship because you wanted a chance to attack them? --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.26 04:35:00 - [22] Originally by: robocop152 I won't be back. can i haz ur stuffz?
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.08.26 04:39:00 - [23] Steel salvage > wooden salvage, c/d?
Barrus Inane	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Lana Torrin I thought it would be a link of posts by CCP representatives that state quite clearly that salvaging in not theft.. The stuff IN the wreck is yours (I disagree that rat loot and player loot is treated differently) but the wreck its self isn't. I know what they say, it is called... Development! Doomsday used to be able to launch as a cyno attack. Nano's used to make battleships hit 3km/s. There used to be mines, etc. etc. etc. This is development forums. IMO the current salvage policy goes against everything imo that is eve. It is by far the wussiest, lamest and easist way to make isk in the game. All you need is a T1 frigate, a salvager and scan probe. Like one day of training and the lamest noob with access to the internet can make millions without risk. Seems to me to go against ccp's much lauded risk/reward. Lets add some more risk to it, but maybe up the rewards too. You leave grid, it is abandoned, you on grid, it is yours. Wreck and everything on it. Seems simple enough to me.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.08.26 06:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Barrus Inane Originally by: Lana Torrin I thought it would be a link of posts by CCP representatives that state quite clearly that salvaging in not theft.. The stuff IN the wreck is yours (I disagree that rat loot and player loot is treated differently) but the wreck its self isn't. I know what they say, it is called... Development! Doomsday used to be able to launch as a cyno attack. Nano's used to make battleships hit 3km/s. There used to be mines, etc. etc. etc. This is development forums. IMO the current salvage policy goes against everything imo that is eve. It is by far the wussiest, lamest and easist way to make isk in the game. All you need is a T1 frigate, a salvager and scan probe. Like one day of training and the lamest noob with access to the internet can make millions without risk. Seems to me to go against ccp's much lauded risk/reward. Lets add some more risk to it, but maybe up the rewards too. You leave grid, it is abandoned, you on grid, it is yours. Wreck and everything on it. Seems simple enough to me. Well I've been on both end of this and I can say its about the same risk as mission running... ie, close to none. The biggest problem with changing the system is the unexpected consequences. I'll take player loot as an example. It USED to belong to the killing party, but this was changed to belong to the party that owned it originally (ie, ownership didn't change just because you went pop). This was changed because people kept getting suicide in highsec and complained that they had to steal their own stuff from their own wreck to get it back.. This would give them a criminal flag to the person that suicided them originally, meaning they were more than likely popped again. Now what happens is that you have a station fight, one of you looses and then a million rats descend on the wreck and pick it dry before the winner can get within 10km of it. 99 times out of 100 the loosers pod it still sitting in the wreck when this happens, so he doesn't have a chance to defend his stuff. So it went from the winner taking the spoils of the fight to some random person that happened to be near by taking the spoils because the winner wont get agro to them and the looser that DOES get agro cant do anything about it. So I'll let you take three guesses at what will happen if salvaging gives agro..
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.26 06:15:00 - [26] Yeah, if salvage gives agro, people might shoot back and get shot for it. They have the choice to get shot, you will get the same whining as you get with can flippers. But then, you will also get baitings as well, etc. Myself, I am just throwing suggestions out as I rarely/if ever get ninja problems, cannot remember the last time I ran into one. True, missions aren't that high risk, but it again comes down to skills and investment. What would happen if I tried running a lvl 4 on my first week in eve solo? Now why should salvaging yield same reward as l4 bounties with a zero risk? Just throwing out ideas is all.
Elrinarie Gallente Northern Lights Industries	Posted - 2009.08.26 07:24:00 - [27] this would be much less of a problem if CCP would allow missions to be ran from any system /shrug --------------------- Creator of another Mining Calculator
Commander Ogir	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:52:00 - [28] They should just allow us to blast the ninja s****out of the sky. Just like can flipping. Can't be they take my earned wreck for nothing.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:53:00 - [29] Originally by: robocop152 Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income. I think they should stop people being about to scan out and steel from mission area's. Please guys in charge change this as its got to the point where I am getting raided every mission. And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I love eve except this one part. Sorry my 1st post is a moan. WOW is that way --> Seriouldy, you fail at EVE if you moan and whine about this. Salvaging is by deenition trash, anyone if free to salvage it. Its not "yours". "I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income." Then you are stupid for not being abel to protect your income. Salvagin alt? Salvage on the go? Doing missions away from hubs? Making you harder to scan out? Lot of other ways as well. You are just a lazy whiny douchbag. EVE is not supposed to be a walk in the park while eating cake. EVE is harsh and there exist competition. Deal with it, or take the concequences if you can not! I for one play it mart when missioning (on my mission alt), I have never had a ninja salvager in my mission, ever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:57:00 - [30] Quote: Just as I though u all give it the "its not urs" stuff then fine if u wanna play it that way under law salvage belongs to the 1st person that finds it, and being as I was the one that killed the NPC's, that means I found it 1st so it is mine. The fact that u all prolly do it to means u'll say whatever makes u feel less of a thief. You couldn't be more wrong. The first person to 'salvage' it is the owner. If you are going to come here crying and moaning at least get your facts right. There are many ways to avoid having someone salvage your mission, but it sounds like you dont want to try and find any of them out. You just want the game changed to suit you. Seriously, at least try or you could always uninstall EVE and.... well I think you know where to go! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Rawbin Hood Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.08.26 09:09:00 - [31] keep up the good fight.... killrights on salvage thieves would be nice. ◄Brutor► The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count)
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.27 09:27:00 - [32] Originally by: robocop152 Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I don't pvp or mine so this is my only game income. I think they should stop people being about to scan out and steel from mission area's. Please guys in charge change this as its got to the point where I am getting raided every mission. And please don't people bother posting with the "this an't the right game for u blaa blaa blaa". I love eve except this one part. Sorry my 1st post is a moan. I appologice in advance, and i kick myself for saying so, but its steal... And its not stealing, cause if they stole it, you'd be free to shoot them all you want, but why you'd have the salvage floating around in a can is beyond me
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.27 09:31:00 - [33] Originally by: robocop152 Just as I though u all give it the "its not urs" stuff then fine if u wanna play it that way under law salvage belongs to the 1st person that finds it, and being as I was the one that killed the NPC's, that means I found it 1st so it is mine. The fact that u all prolly do it to means u'll say whatever makes u feel less of a thief. So if i am in the room with you when the wreck is spawned, who does it belong to then? good analogy... if i am 1km close the it the light from the wreck hits my eyes first, so its mine then?
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.27 09:34:00 - [34] Originally by: El Liptonez Oh hey, thought you might wanna read this. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1143161 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1140081 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1128088 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1136730 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1120748 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1116980 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115347 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115497 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115121 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115359 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1114874 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115387 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1138530 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1067174 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122548 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1113790 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1109936 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1145299 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1146536 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1147386 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1149102 ...I love you...
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.08.27 10:52:00 - [35] Edited by: 4THELULZ on 27/08/2009 10:52:56 Had one person raid my mission, ever. He took the trouble to scan me out and only took salvage - fair play tbh. To the OP - cry more. I really have nothing further to say to people like you bawwwing their eyes out on this subject, I've said it all before too many times. Quote: ...I love you... Seconded.
Che Jin	Posted - 2009.08.27 14:16:00 - [36] Edited by: Che Jin on 27/08/2009 14:17:37 This topic seems to pop up at intervals... especially whenever EvE has an influx of new players who are working out the pleasantries of "making isk and learning how to get by in EvE". When someone steals "your" loot they flash and you can kill them. Thats pretty good. It takes a lot to learn how to scan you down, and eventually those people get tired of doing it and move on to better ways to make money. Leave the mission hub areas. Have an alt salvage your wrecks behind you. Join a corp, ask a corpie to help you... or You can learn how to make isk some other way, which you ultimately will or you'll get bored and quit eve. I personally believe there should be no ownership rights to wrecks and you keep what you kill only if you're fast enough to grab it. Sorry, just my 2 cents
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.27 14:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Che Jin Sorry, just my 2 cents Here have another 2 cent...
Ned Black	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:02:00 - [38] Actually there is a pretty simple solution to the problem. Let salvaging be as it is today. No penalties, no flashing red when you salvage someone else's wreaks... Just make anyone not part of the mission runners fleet/corp red blinky as soon as they enter the mission area. When the purp leave the area (unless they have made some kind of aggressive act other than coming there) they should go back to non blinky.
Kurfin	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:35:00 - [39] If you are missioning in a mission hub try finding space for an ECCM module on your ship. It will make you harder to scan down, not impossible but it should make you a less appealing when surrounded by easier targets. Won't work very well on a marauder because the base sensor strength is so low, but they can salvage as they go anyway.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:32:00 - [40] I'm just going to chime in here and say it's probably better for you that you don't get kill rights over it, otherwise I think a lot of you mission runners would quickly find yourself in a harsh PVP situation you cant handle. As a matter of fact I am so annoyed with this topic I am going to suggest this to the ninjas: Assault frigs work great for this - signature tank your assault frig (LG halo implant it for extra LOL), find a nice missile boat with a small drone bay (Raven) and go loot some mission runners wrecks and wait for him to attack you. If they are smart enough to put drones on you, kill them. Once you killed a drone or two drones you are in total control. He does not have a point and web on, so the fight is in your control. Now hopefully you caught him when he is in the midddle of the mission and is taking damage. If so he is probably barely tanking the mission as it is, so the extra 200 dps you toss on him will quickly make them fold up int a nice player wreck you can salvage. Dont forget to post your LOLmails.
Sister Megarea	Posted - 2009.08.27 18:41:00 - [41] Edited by: Sister Megarea on 27/08/2009 18:42:19 Edited by: Sister Megarea on 27/08/2009 18:41:57 Originally by: robocop152 1st off what does it matter how i spell things pritty sad to pick on that but hay. 2nd eve is not just a pvp if it were there would be no NPC rats or agents. I really don't see the point in posting here as most of u just seem to post to be nasty which is fine for most but not for me. I won't be back. Oh, I can't help myself: Just from your first sentence: "1st off what does it matter how i spell things pritty sad to pick on that but hay. " Should be: First off, what does it matter how I spell things ? It is pretty sad to pick on that, but hey ... Why ? Because: Proper spelling gets the idea across that you were actually trying to convey, rather than running it through some form of 2nd grade spelling converter A decent command of the Queen's English shows at least an iota of intelligence Decent spelling respects your audience by having them understand what you are trying to say. People take you much more seriously if you actually use the language you purport to be communicating in. As to the topic itself: I've been playing since Dec of '08 - Not all that long, but I am soloing my own L4s and I always salvage my own missions. I think I've seen ninja salvagers three times in the last eight months. How it that ? Because I do what has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread: I don't mission in the hubs with the thirty-three thousand other people doing exactly the same thing. Better yet, get a second account or join a corp with a buddy who can salvage as you mission - Problem solved.
Xing Fey	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Abrazzar Yeah, they should remove wreck ownership completely so that people no longer (wrongly) feel entitled to it. i'm starting to feel strongly in favor of this...
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Sister Megarea 2. A decent command of the Queen's English shows at least an iota of intelligence Unless English is their second language. However, in this case, I'm guessing it's not. In which case you are right. If someone says something in here and it contains U instead of you, UR instead of your or you're, 2 instead of to or too, or any other purposeful middle school butchering of words, I'm likely not going to take you seriously and will flame you. With that said, I would have flamed you anyway (OP) just because of your idea, which I've seen a dozen times. Taking salvage is not stealing, it's not something that the devs overlooked and it's not something that will be fixed because you or anyone else want it changed. To quote the good GM's... Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Now, a lot of people will ask, why can they take my salvage, but not my loot. If taking rat loot is stealing, then taking rat salvage should be! Originally by: CCP Faolchu "This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on the wreckage." In other words, wreaks and loot are two different things. Wrecks are just that, wrecks, trash in space, they are worthless to Concord (the game code), the database, and the devs. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you can see your outnumbered by more important people. The loot is yours because it has value.
Sister Megarea	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:31:00 - [44] Originally by: BeanBagKing If someone says something in here and it contains U instead of you, UR instead of your or you're, 2 instead of to or too, or any other purposeful middle school butchering of words, I'm likely not going to take you seriously and will flame you. Slight topic drift, but: If someone says in game "Hey d00d, can u help me wif a mission? Dey're 2 tuff 4 me 2 kill by myself lolz" Versus "Hey, would you mind lending me a hand ? I'm in a mission that's a little too tough for me" Chances are, I'm going to completely ignore the first request and gladly help out on the second :)
Smegly	Posted - 2009.08.27 21:00:00 - [45] Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:04:05 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:02:04 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:01:26 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:00:54 going slightly off topic as well for the love of god don't call them "ninja" salvagers, there is nothing ninja about salvaging a wreck right before the eyes of the mission runner. they are just trash collectors, waste disposal engineers or to put it simply JUST PlAIN SALVAGERS. now that i've said that, to be honest i don't like people coming in and salvaging my mission an salvaging wrecks that are there because i actually want to salvage them myself. though if someone was to ask me if they could salvage my mission with the offer of sharing the profits from doing so then i'm more then happy for them to salvage my mission. salvaging is a game mechanic it is intended that salvage can be taken without getting criminal flagged as numerous above posts have pointed out but the reason they appear with your toons image when you show info is because you own the loot inside whatever part of the wreckage that it managed to survive in, if they take the loot then your more then welcome to shoot them. the only mechanic that needs to be fixed about people salvaging others missions is you will get the salvagers that will take loot as well at the wrecks and have a back up fleet to pop the guy running the missions so they can get that persons wreck and stuff incase they attack said salvager. though that is just considered standard piracy there for it can't actually be fixed. yes i know i contradicted myself there but i was just making the point, what people consider something that needs to be fixed is a game mechanic that is just working in a way that doesn't benefit you. just my 10 cents edit misspelled plain >.< edit 2 noticed some words spelled wrong
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.27 21:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Smegly Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:04:05 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:02:04 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:01:26 Edited by: Smegly on 27/08/2009 21:00:54 going slightly off topic as well for the love of god don't call them "ninja" salvagers, there is nothing ninja about salvaging a wreck right before the eyes of the mission runner. they are just trash collectors, waste disposal engineers or to put it simply JUST PlAIN SALVAGERS. now that i've said that, to be honest i don't like people coming in and salvaging my mission an salvaging wrecks that are there because i actually want to salvage them myself. though if someone was to ask me if they could salvage my mission with the offer of sharing the profits from doing so then i'm more then happy for them to salvage my mission. salvaging is a game mechanic it is intended that salvage can be taken without getting criminal flagged as numerous above posts have pointed out but the reason they appear with your toons image when you show info is because you own the loot inside whatever part of the wreckage that it managed to survive in, if they take the loot then your more then welcome to shoot them. the only mechanic that needs to be fixed about people salvaging others missions is you will get the salvagers that will take loot as well at the wrecks and have a back up fleet to pop the guy running the missions so they can get that persons wreck and stuff incase they attack said salvager. though that is just considered standard piracy there for it can't actually be fixed. yes i know i contradicted myself there but i was just making the point, what people consider something that needs to be fixed is a game mechanic that is just working in a way that doesn't benefit you. just my 10 cents edit misspelled plain >.< edit 2 noticed some words spelled wrong Incoherent post crits Paul for 4641 (crushing). Paul dies. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.27 22:56:00 - [47] Its not likely that CCP will changed their minds (they rarely do) but as Liptonez demonstrated for us, there are a whole bunch of people who don't agree with them regarding how salvage is handled. My thoughts are that the mission runner pewed the internet space ships and caused the wrecks to appear. The wrecks in turn belong to the person who caused them to be - the mission runner. CCP's reasoning seems be that Eve is harsh so ninja salavers can get away with it, even if the mission runner is still killing ships and making more wrecks. If Eve is so harsh then turn off concord protection for the salvagers. Trying to sneak salvage out from under a pimped out mission BS - that's harsh. CCP can say whatever they want but taking something that someone else created and has not abandoned, is stealing. Maybe after another dozen threads or so CCP may come to realize this Colonies and Capitals
Mattk50 Caldari House Maadiah	Posted - 2009.08.27 23:56:00 - [48] missions are very profitable, one of the best ways the make money in highsec, and doing it without much thinking. theres a little bit of risk of not making so much money, the ninja salvagers are like balancers :P
Cain m Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.08.28 00:03:00 - [49] @thread title "Salvage steeling is getting beyond a joke!! " Your grammar is beyond a joke!
Kliin Sheiv	Posted - 2009.08.28 00:06:00 - [50] I don't really see the problem here. Some guy is ninja-salvaging "your" wrecks,, big deal.. target the wrecks that he is flying to, put a tractor on them.. or just blow it up in front of him no wrecks = no ninja salvager.. Easy as pie.
Zaboth Garadath Amarr No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.28 02:49:00 - [51] Originally by: robocop152 Ok moan at me all u want for saying this, but the fact these people show up and can steel all ur salvage is completely out of order. I do all the work killing all my mission targets then some lazy thief just shows up and steels it is wrong. I have been a mission runner and a ninja salvager in the past, and knowing how both work, I can tell you without doubt that ninja salvaging uses more effort than mission running does. why?, well lets look at what you have to do for each profession: If you are doing a mission, you dock up at your local lvl 4 agent. You request a mission. If it is a bad/unfavourable one, you can decline it if you have not already done so recently. So you have your mission, which is either in-system or 1 jump away. You warp to the site and kill the rats, usually needing nothing more than ctrl-click and F1 (to target a ship then fire on it ) Once you are done, you go back to the agent and get your reward. On top of that you will also recive bounties from the ships you have killed. Thats alot of isk, even if you don't loot/salvage the wrecks. So what about those 'lazy thiefs'? Firstly as a ninja-salvager you have to have a ship that can use an expanded probe launcher, and be able to fit quite a few salvagers, both of wich use alot of CPU. You should also have an afterburner, as you cannot tractor wrecks that someone else has destroyed (this should be fixed btw) So, you have your scanning/salvaging ship, so you go undock and launch a probe. From personal experience, your first scan, if in a mission hub, is a nightmare. you may have up to a hundred sigs. and you are trying to find one. But no worries, you can select one sig and ignore all other sigs. (Just to remind ya, you have no idea what the sig is yet, be it ship, drone, probe, etc) So with your single probe, you try to get the sig down to at least 8 AU before brining out 3 others to help you triangulate the sig. This can take a while, even for a good, efficient scanner. So, once you get the sig to a high enough strength, you can see what type it is. If lucky, its a ship. So far so good... You then carry on making the sig strength higher by manipulating your probe's scan radius and position, which is normally changed every time the probe's scan radius is decreased. At about 75% sig strength, you can see what type of ship it is. Once again you are lucky if you get a missioning ship. If you actually have finally scanned down an ovbious MR ship, e.i. a CNR, then you are off warping to that ship. Usually by the time you manage to get to this stage you have scanned many bad sigs already, i.e just a drone or a noobship, etc. You warp into a mission site, great! but then, it might not be so great at all. What if the MR is tractoring/salvaging the wrecks? well get out your probes again... Point is, ninja-salvagers are not 'lazy thiefs' They are just people who do more work for less, most of the time because they cannot do lvl 4 missions. Some do it in the hope, that when they not only salvage, but loot a wreck from a mission runner, that the missioner fires on their little salvaging ship. The mission runner feels smug, he might even lol the ninja in local. Then suddenly the mission runner sees a battleship with neuts and a point warp in and target him... And then of course, some people do it because it is very fun, especially if the Missioner rants on local, does an emoragequit and then rants in the forums about why ninja salvagers should have their salvaging rights taken away and then shot . If you feel that you don't like any form of pvp at all, and still want to make some isk, go and find a nice wormhole to live in, set up a POS and live in isolation. only go to known space when you need fuel and to sell your loot. And maby when you try to scan that single wormhole, in the mist of all those other sigs, you might appreciate what the 'lazy' thief has to go through to take a fraction of your income.
Bestofworst Worstofbest Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.08.28 03:01:00 - [52] Ninja Salvager risks, as observed by a curious outsider: 1. A Ninja Salvager may probe down a BC or BS doing L1s or 2s. It's rare, but it happens, and I've seen a few Ninja's myself while I was speed running L2s in a Myrmidon. 2. A Ninja Salvager may probe down a Mission Runner who is doing: 2a. Blowing up all the wrecks as he kills the NPC 2b. Salvaging the wrecks as he goes 2c. Has a buddy salvaging the wrecks as he goes 2d. Is doing a mission that has very little ships and therefore crappy salvage 3. A Ninja Salvager may scan down and warp onto a mission runner in L4 Recon 3/3, therefore dieing quickly. 4. A Ninja Salvager may warp into the Mission Runner, only to find the wraith of the next wave of NPC Attackers pointing their Turrets and Launchers in the Ninja's direction. _________________________________________ The Problems with getting aggro from salvaging: As an Anecdote, lets say Billy was running a Mission in his CNR, Faction fitted and using rat specific hardeners and Cruise missiles. A Ninja Salvager warps in and starts looting and salvaging (Now that Salvage gets aggression, why not take everything). Two things could happen: 1. The Ninja Salvager can warp in, salvage something and loot a few things and warp out before the Mission Runner can lock on to take him out. Or the Ninja Salvager can steal the Mission Objective (Such as Marines, or Damsel in Distress) and ransom it back to the Mission Runner. 2. The Mission Runner attacks the Theif, either wounding him badly or killing him, the Ninja Salvager comes back in a PvP ship of his choice, made specifically to fight AGAINST your weakest resists. Your CNR is now toast, with low cap, low resist, only light and medium drones, low DPS from Cruise, and of course the Mission Rats. If #2 is the case. You end up losing your shiny CNR, you are out a preety penny, the Ninja Salvager gets loot equal to more than what he could have Salvaged in the first place. While Ninja Salvaging in General may become less common over all, you will see a more increased use of mechanics to get the Mission Runners to agress on veteran PvP pilots. Much like what happened with the Can Flipping change. ________________________________________________ My Music Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity.
Ezevector	Posted - 2009.08.28 18:35:00 - [53] Edited by: Ezevector on 28/08/2009 18:47:00 I've never been ninja salvaged (because I've never missioned in any hubs?) but I can't help but notice that people keep focusing on the fact that CCP has said it's not considered theft. How things currently are and how they should be are two different things, people. I have yet to see even one person--in any of those ten thousand threads that people link--ever--claim that CCP has declared that salvage is theft. Yet this is what you keep arguing about. What I see is them saying CCP should declare that salvage is theft, and a lot of replies that say "they said I could so you're wrong." Wrong about what? What did they say? Did they say ninja salvage was considered theft? Nope. They said ninja salvage should be considered theft. What does that require? That requires that it not be considered theft already. -EVERYBODY- KNOWS WHAT CCP'S POSITION ON SALVAGE IS. Including the OP. So stop emphatically pointing to it as if it invalidates their opinion that it should change. The fact that something is intended means nothing in the sense of whether it's a good thing. Every game has bad ideas that are working exactly as intended. If you're going to argue, argue whether salvage should be considered theft, not whether it is considered theft. If someone posts that salvage should trigger a thief flag, THEY KNOW that CCP has officially stated that ninja salvage is not theft. They've been told. They've had ten thousand links thrown at them. They can repeat it to you verbatim. But it has nothing to do with what they said. And if you don't understand why it has nothing to do with what they said, stop posting.
Yifrosky	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:01:00 - [54] Stop making such posts! I also feel that pirates who kills my T2 fitted battleship, causing me to lose 100+millions is out of order I can also feel that pirates who pods me and cause me to lose my full sets of +5 implant worth 500 million is out of order I can also feel someone who scammed me for 300million is totally out of order I can feel that this game, sometimes, is out of order itself. The thing is, in the end, its part of the game. a. k. a. "THIS IS GAME". p.s. "steal" and "steel" are totally different things.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:02:00 - [55] Edited by: BeanBagKing on 28/08/2009 19:03:25 Originally by: Ezevector stuff.. Actually there are plenty of people who seem to think this is something broken that CCP doesn't want to fix... Originally by: IsTheOpOver [stuff...] it does seem to many to be just an oversight and something CCP just refuses to want to fix. Case in point. Personally I don't think that a lot do know the position CCP has on the issue, I certainly didn't till I started following the ideas board. They of course know by now that it's not a bug, but they seem to think it's something that hasn't been addressed. I point it out not because I think it will change their mind, that when reading CCPs responses they will have a sudden epiphany. I point it out to let them know the topic has been addressed at least two dozen other times, and CCP has made clear their stance on the issue. I realize people will still have their opinions, and most chose to keep arguing those opinions. For those that already know I'm just re-iterated a fact, for those that didn't I just educated them. If they want to keep trying then there is nothing I can do to stop them. However, if you want someone that doesn't simply point out that CCP Said So, then there are plenty of those people around, it's just that most don't want to take the time to repeat the argument every time one of these threads pop up, it's just easier to copy/paste from Iron Fleet. Here is one you may want to take a look at... B Cassidy, Post #33 and 34
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Nika Dekaia Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/08/2009 22:15:51 Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/08/2009 22:15:30 Just move out of that mission hub. Been doing missions for 3 years, never had someone raiding my mission. Other than that: now that you have started posting it's time to quit doing it and look some pages back for one of those 42434525467854 threads about ninja looters and read at least one of them. It's an intended mechanic and won't change. Peroid. There are ways to deal with it. Do it or suck it up. But stop whining on the forum. EDIT: First page of the Mission & Complexes Subforum. 10 pages. Read it. Linkage /thread.
Calcium	Posted - 2009.09.08 08:19:00 - [57] First off, I am a Salvage Technician and as such have bad grammar I have issues with the aggression that players have towards this line of work. It would compare to the other less noble occupation of "Can Flipping". In order for me to perform my profession I need to develop skills in Probing and Salvage operation. Such this is a less noble pursuit than say loading up 1400mm Arty and putting holes in small planets. I then need to spend countless hours scanning down a missioner, chasing ghost signals and its all for but if you leave the mission area. A can flipper jumps from belt to belt to find a jet canner and then points and clicks. Flippers have one purpose and thats to grief. that want a fight and feel that your mining barge is about as fair a fight as they would care to go for. (a whole other post). It can be started 5 minutes after character creation. SalveTech takes days of training. Now I understand that you the mission running is a little bit annoyed that someone has used a perfectly legal module to do, funny enough, exactly what it was intended to do, scan down ships. They just to you and practice their trade on the wrecks that you leave in your wake. Firstly, risk vs. reward, the mission runner (in most cases) will be paid bounty on the killing of the ship. Your being paid. Now there is opportunity for more isk in the wreck, sure, but you have gotten something for your effort in creating the wreck. A can flipper takes all your hard work leaving nothing for the hours of mining. Secondly, a salvager is kitted to salvage not mission run and certainly not to tank BS missions. We take a lot of risk jumping into your fight, albeit uninvited. I really enjoy the feel of a gritty salvager scooping up trash and seeing what I have found. Mission runners have missions, PVP, FW, Cosmic Signatures. Miners have ABs, Cosmic Sigs, W-Space. Traders have the market and the goods I gather (some of which are abandoned by the pilots) Issue here, SalveTechs cant scan down wrecks, even wrecks that have been left after mission hand in's and the deadspace collapses. This forces people like me who WANT to develop a salvage specialist to hunt down missions and salvage them. Some say its wrong, other right and as with most people frequenting the forums, its the extremes of either view that is presented. Its indiscriminate, I cant hunt down an individual and target them, I could but in a system of 90+ why would I bother. less then 50% of finds actually are worth the effort. So please its not a personal attack on you. Its just a couple of guys making some isk in a hard an often unrewarding manner. You want it fixed then give the salvager something more profitable to go after, you ask me there has been billions of ships lost in eve I would have imagined a few graveyards would make it more interesting and less stressful for all. PS I will split the loot with anyone who asks and have even flicked over 25% of finds when pilots co-operate with me.
HeliosGal	Posted - 2009.09.08 09:02:00 - [58] From a mechanics point of view, salvage are like hackable cans ive been doing high sec cosmic signature mag sites. They contain cans ive been hacking away and 3 others have come in and started competiting with me on the hacking. They are really third party cnas so whoever hacks and retrieves first is the winner Same applies to salvage the wrecks belong to third party NPCs so in effect the NPC pilots actually own the wrecks and as a after result other npc or players in the game universe come along and can salvage the wrecks for salvage material ( loot belongs and its tagged to the owner that got the kill) but the salvage is considered open property first one on wins And thats teh way it works youre mission zone is randomly generated but it is also open to system wide probing and anyone coming into the area of space u are in at the time and basically shooting, looting, salvaging anything they want unless u get it first Some say it is morally wrong if u run NBSI then it dont matter, if NRDS well maybe different if you rely on mission salvage for isk then get into reselling or 00 theres more profit
StarMarshal Kaltwelle Caldari Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.08 09:17:00 - [59] OK, I hate salvage thieves too. I hate them enough to shoot them the instant they (rarely) aggro me. I've lost a pve-fitted rigged raven to a pvp-fitted drake for it. Fair fight... It was fun til the moment I lost. He earned a o7 salute and 'gf'. It's more honorable than can tipping defenseless miners. Can everyone get over it please? It's a game dynamic - frustrating as it may be.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.09.08 09:24:00 - [60] Originally by: Metalcali Been posted before, and I'm sure you'll love this one OP, along with anyone else who doesn't like ninja salvagers, make salvaging free open wrecks a flagged offense. With this, when you fire on the ninja, his corp or gang will then warp in and destroy your ship, or your corp will warp in and when you just wanted to do some easy missions for isk and salvage, you'll be engaged in a nice little war that will take your time away from doing missions. Really, which would be the easier path for you in the long run? I'm not anti ninja but every time I hear that argument I laugh as its irrelevant. Flagging gives the option to shoot. That's all of us are asking for, you know, some PVP from this..would be fun and what the game is supposed to be about? If an MR is dumb enough to fall for a trap then that's his risk, its not an issue. But anyway this is the millionth post about it, CCP have made their position clear and its best just to forget salvage as part of a mission until its in you hold. Also there are plenty of places free of ninjas. Its not happened to me yet (will do I'm sure but no big deal)
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.09.08 09:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Trent Nichols Its not likely that CCP will changed their minds (they rarely do) but as Liptonez demonstrated for us, there are a whole bunch of people who don't agree with them regarding how salvage is handled. My thoughts are that the mission runner pewed the internet space ships and caused the wrecks to appear. The wrecks in turn belong to the person who caused them to be - the mission runner. CCP's reasoning seems be that Eve is harsh so ninja salavers can get away with it, even if the mission runner is still killing ships and making more wrecks. If Eve is so harsh then turn off concord protection for the salvagers. Trying to sneak salvage out from under a pimped out mission BS - that's harsh. CCP can say whatever they want but taking something that someone else created and has not abandoned, is stealing. Maybe after another dozen threads or so CCP may come to realize this But the salvager don't have any more protection than any other unit in space, what you are implying is to take away the overall concord protection, which means criminaly flagging them, but they are not doing anyting criminal.... "Sneak out", they are not sneaking out anything... they are staring you stright in the face going -F1- ... Salvaging that pesky pirate rats wreck... Cause it is the Rats wreck you know, not the MR's... He did not "create" it, he blew a ship up... wreck belongs to the owner of the ship blown, as Playier killings will demonstrate Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.08 10:53:00 - [62] Edited by: JordanParey on 08/09/2009 10:54:07 I had a ninja (no, not a corpmate, some Russian guy) warp in with a Vigil to try and ninja some wrecks with a Vigil. I warped out, warped back in with a Hound, and volleyed through his shields into his armor. Second time I had a ninja, it was in the mission with the Imperial Navy Gate Permit. He was quite clever and realized something interesting about that gate, then followed me into the mission. I let him go ahead into the last room with his Stabber. I watched and chuckled as his Stabber got one-volleyed by a trio of Amarr Navy battleships all firing at him at the same time. I moved out of that system and made sure to only run missions at off-hours of the day. MORAL IS: Move systems. There are plenty of agents in the middle of nowhere that are just as good as the ones at the hubs.

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