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ArdMinBG
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:19:00 -
[1]
have you used web drones and what should be the best way to utilize them? according to specs SW-900 has -20% speed bonus or if you have 5 of them then the target ship has to be completely stoped. However when I tryed them this did not happen. Any advice?
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me0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:20:00 -
[2]
Stacking..
penalty.
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Mona X
Caldari
Polish Task Forces
C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:30:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: ArdMinBG
have you used web drones and what should be the best way to utilize them?
Right Mouse Button -> Reprocess.
Originally by: ArdMinBG
according to specs SW-900 has -20% speed bonus or if you have 5 of them then the target ship has to be completely stoped. However when I tryed them this did not happen.
It because most bonusses in Eve aren't addictive but multisomthingive and are stacking penalized.
So first drone slows target to 80%, second slows that 80% by only 85% of its bonus (penalty), to 66.4% of original speed. Third drone slows that 66% by 50% of it's bonus, to 59.76% or original speed. Forth drone's effevt is 25% of their 20& and fifth drone's effect is neglible.
Numbers aren't to exact, but good enough.
Originally by: ArdMinBG
Any advice?
Right Mouse Button -> Reprocess.
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ArdMinBG
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: me0de
Stacking..
penalty.
even so, then the effect should be:
1st drone 20%
2nd drone 16,7%
3rd drone 13,9%
4th drone 11,6%
5th drone 9,6%
so the cumulative effect should be:
0.80*0.833*0.861*0.884*0.904=0.458 which should be acceptable. However I see much smaller effect on target ship.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:59:00 -
[5]
Perhaps those utility and electronic warfare drones would be more effective if you used 5 different ones. iow, one webber, one ecm drone, one dampening drone etc. Should make your enemy considerably less effective on multiple fronts.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sybilla Prior
Perhaps those utility and electronic warfare drones would be more effective if you used 5 different ones. iow, one webber, one ecm drone, one dampening drone etc. Should make your enemy considerably less effective on multiple fronts.
Or use 5 ECM ones, and listen to them rage in local when they get jammed. 
The non-ECM EW drones do need a bit of a boost, though.
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:44:00 -
[7]
Web drones are fine, because webbing at range is such a powerful effect.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Sybilla Prior
Perhaps those utility and electronic warfare drones would be more effective if you used 5 different ones. iow, one webber, one ecm drone, one dampening drone etc. Should make your enemy considerably less effective on multiple fronts.
Or use 5 ECM ones, and listen to them rage in local when they get jammed.
The non-ECM EW drones do need a bit of a boost, though.
No stacking problems with ECM right?
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Web drones are fine, because webbing at range is such a powerful effect.
…as long as they can catch the target. Anything fast enough to warrant webbing will most likely outrun them. 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:41:00 -
[10]
I wouldn't change the existing webbers, but I would love to see medium and small variants added. There is nothing more frustrating than a drone design ostensably to slow your target down to managable speeds being a fragging snail itself...
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Janu Hull
I wouldn't change the existing webbers, but I would love to see medium and small variants added. There is nothing more frustrating than a drone design ostensably to slow your target down to managable speeds being a fragging snail itself...
lol, too true...
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:54:00 -
[12]
Drone nav computers.
I don't support making everything which can field 5 web drones a de-facto Huginn without some serious compromises.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Zal Dakkar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Janu Hull
I wouldn't change the existing webbers, but I would love to see medium and small variants added. There is nothing more frustrating than a drone design ostensably to slow your target down to managable speeds being a fragging snail itself...
This.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:25:00 -
[14]
Release the Spider Drones!
I want 15000m/sec drones that shoot AND web.
-- The crazy tree blooms at every moment of liberal ascendancy.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.08.27 19:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I don't support making everything which can field 5 web drones a de-facto Huginn without some serious compromises.
This. Web drones are fine, and there arent small or medium ones for good reason.
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Footoo Rama
Gallente
Caldari Illuminati
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:47:00 -
[16]
Stacking...
The bigger problem is they are to slow to use effectively on anything smaller then a BC, which is what you want to be webbing... If you want it for the damage you are better of with TP drones.
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"Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Allesteria
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Posted - 2009.08.28 00:43:00 -
[17]
With all due respect webber drones are not, in fact, "fine." They went from the webbing power of middle grade named webbers to worse than T1 webbers. When you add that to their base speed being slower than that of the painter drones their relative situation is even worse.
The fact that they are the only EW drone that doesn't have a small and medium flavor is just insult to injury. At least 5 small or medium webber drones could be used by mission runners in short-range setups without significantly reducing or completely eliminating their offensive drone capacity.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.08.28 00:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 28/08/2009 00:48:32
Originally by: Allesteria
At least 5 small or medium webber drones could be used by mission runners in short-range setups without significantly reducing or completely eliminating their offensive drone capacity.
The problem with that is they would be abused in pvp to hell and back, with the range and speed of light drones even 15% slowdown for a full wave would be ridiculously overpowered.
There is a reason there are only heavy ones, they are sufficient for pve, and cant be abused in pvp.
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.08.28 00:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/08/2009 00:51:05
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/08/2009 00:50:29
Originally by: Allesteria
With all due respect webber drones are not, in fact, "fine." They went from the webbing power of middle grade named webbers to worse than T1 webbers. When you add that to their base speed being slower than that of the painter drones their relative situation is even worse.
The fact that they are the only EW drone that doesn't have a small and medium flavor is just insult to injury. At least 5 small or medium webber drones could be used by mission runners in short-range setups without significantly reducing or completely eliminating their offensive drone capacity.
We're not talking about mission runners or something which impacts missile damage. We're talking about something which reduces speed at range - a very powerful thing. If these drones were fast without the extra modules (drone nav computers, eg) they'd be simply too good. Light drones which can web? Just no.
I've already been involved into kills which were specifically brought by drone nav computer boosted web drones (for ganking a nano-sleipnir, heh) - but out dominix was specifically fit for this task as it should be.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Asuka Smith
Gallente
StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.08.28 03:40:00 -
[20]
I say they should not be stacking penalized.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.28 07:57:00 -
[21]
They could use a boost, the core problem is they can't typically catch the things that most need a good webbing. I support introducing light and medium webber drones. Yes that will cause serious problems for interceptors and vagabonds and that's a good thing.
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.08.28 08:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/08/2009 08:44:18
Originally by: King Rothgar
They could use a boost, the core problem is they can't typically catch the things that most need a good webbing. I support introducing light and medium webber drones. Yes that will cause serious problems for interceptors and vagabonds and that's a good thing.
No, it's not a good thing. If you cannot deal with interceptors and vagabonds post-QR then that is really your problem. I used to kill them in a plated BC (without interdiction maneuvers, either) pre-QR just fine. Granted, now you need Warrior IIs to shake off interceptors, or something with small guns to just knock them out.
However, making every ship with a dronebay have long-range webbing would be broken, period.
You can make your web drones go fast enough using drone nav computers anyway, and their optimal range is quite good to begin with. Requires sacrifices? Yes. However, you cannot make every ship a Rapier/Huginn.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Asuka Smith
Gallente
StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.08.28 08:47:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 28/08/2009 08:52:18
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 28/08/2009 08:48:43
Originally by: King Rothgar
They could use a boost, the core problem is they can't typically catch the things that most need a good webbing. I support introducing light and medium webber drones. Yes that will cause serious problems for interceptors and vagabonds and that's a good thing.
Negative, this is not a good idea. The drones should not be the primary way of webbing someone, it should be something you do after they are already webbed to keep them that way, or to slow them down additionally.
If drones can establish the initial web that will be sort of overpowered.
I want to see webber drones do something like the folloing: A thorax, zealot, and drake are engaging a Vagabond, Cerberus, and Huginn. The thorax quickly tackles the cerberus but is called primary and starts going down fast. Then the drake launches his five light webber drones and they speed over and maintain the web while the Drake points him with his 24km and the fight continues.
I dunno, I guess I feel they should be situational because if you do not actually have to get within web range to web someone then the game will turn into proxy tackle "sniper" wars and that sounds LAME; Although that would boost the usefulness of an Arazu as you would need to get a point from long ass ranges. It would work out to be a huge buff for lasers as they could full tackle right at the peak of their optimal, and it would obsolete blasters (the only reason to fly a blaster boat right now is because a gang needs full tackle and if you are gonna be inside web/scram range you might as well melt face while you are there)
EDIT: As a continuation of that thought, if drones become the primary means of tackle then the whole game would shift towards super-plated ships designed to engage at the edge of drone control range, so it would be the harbinger golden age, missiles would gain a lot too. It would basically make Amarr the race to be, with Caldari in second, Gallente third, and Minmatar last. The whole game would change.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:00:00 -
[24]
I'm not sure its the fact that the webbing effect is so crap that hurts them (and they are pretty bad, I'v seen them used maybe twice in my last two years of eve playing), I think its the fact that you trade 5 Ogre IIs worth of damage for a t1 web. I'm sure that if CCP made medium web drones that had the speed of the current ones instead we would see a lot more use.
Put in space whales!
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Polcor Rodal
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.28 13:54:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Polcor Rodal on 28/08/2009 13:54:05
Originally by: Omara Otawan
This. Web drones are fine, and there arent small or medium ones for good reason.
They were implemented on SiSi years ago for a short while. They were considered as
overpowered by nearly everyone....
Same reason, why we would never ever see a warpscramble drone
Take care, bears. |
nautix
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Posted - 2009.08.28 14:25:00 -
[26]
Only use I have found so far for webifier drones is in missions if you use ac's or torps, and mainly just to slow them down a bit to catch up to them
for example: in angel missions you sometimes get the odd bs that likes to stay at the 30km range, stick the web drones on it and you catch it much faster :)
otherwise they are kind of useless...
i guess i fit 2x web drones and 5x small for those special occasions :\
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.08.31 19:37:00 -
[27]
Honestly, webber drones need at least a slight boost. They were over-nerfed in comparison to standard webbers.
I know they needed to be brought in line with the modules and the game changes but when they went from middle-grade named in quality to sub-T1 it went a bit too far.
____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Footoo Rama
Gallente
Caldari Illuminati
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Posted - 2009.08.31 20:02:00 -
[28]
There is pretty much no way to balance the web drones to not make them broken and or usefull. If you make them smaller and therefore faster then you make cruisers and frigs alot more powerful, basically because the needed effect to make them worth carrying would be the same effect as the heavies. If you increase the effect then they also get too powerful... and would allow a BS to web out multiple targets.
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"Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.08.31 20:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/08/2009 20:33:45
Originally by: Morel Nova
I'm not sure its the fact that the webbing effect is so crap that hurts them (and they are pretty bad, I'v seen them used maybe twice in my last two years of eve playing), I think its the fact that you trade 5 Ogre IIs worth of damage for a t1 web. I'm sure that if CCP made medium web drones that had the speed of the current ones instead we would see a lot more use.
Only thing is that if you're fighting something even remotely fast, the web drones are infinitely more powerful then Ogre IIs. Ofc you have other solutions then...
Imo, web drones are a bad idea themselves. Tackle means so much more then DPS.
Web drones which work well without drone nav computers or something else getting initial tackle are simply overpowered.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Pippan
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2009.08.31 20:42:00 -
[30]
Webbing drones are fine.. Boost Painter Drones!!
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Every time you kill a Falcon a kitten is saved.
Please, save the kittens. |
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