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Fiddler Hays
East Central Industrial Corp Imperial Crimson Legion
3
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Posted - 2012.06.01 23:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since most of the miners/industrialist like to whine or want to make hi-sec a haven, this is an attempt to point out CCPGÇÖs inconsistent handling of hi-sec which I believe is causing all of the angst.
First. Eve Online is a sandbox game, PvP centric and difficult to play (See: State Obvious). For their own reasons, CCP has setup a NPC controlled area called hi-sec where they say the environment is safer. Not safe. Safer. You are subject to PvP anywhere within this environment and they have placed a NPC controlled entity called CONCORD to exact consequences on whomever commits a criminal act. Specifically the elimination of your ship and the possibility of being attacked by other players. No podding of course.
This criminal act will affect your security status. CCP has setup CONCORD to attack an Outlaws/Criminals ship once they reach a certain negative security status and enter a certain level of hi-sec.
Gamers that PvP in hi-sec say this system is perfect and well balanced. They commit a criminal act, CONCORD takes their ship and they get a a security hit. The victim normally loses their ship and possibly podded with loss of all implants. (Balanced??)
I disagree and feel CCP is being inconsistent with hi-sec in the following ways:
1. Criminal/Outlaw status in hi-sec is a farce. CCP has implemented a criminal system that has CONCORD shoot on site a criminals ship if they have a certain negative status and try to enter a certain level of hi-sec. I think most (Industrialists) would presume that would be to remove said criminal from his ship so that he cannot do harm. Yet it has been explained to me by experience PvPers, that that level of CONCORD can be easily tanked and is just for GÇ£realismGÇ¥. It is only when you commit a crime does the Uber CONCORD step in to take your ship.
2. This farce is further confirmed by CCPGÇÖs statements that ganking is fine even at -10.0 in hi-sec. Ganking in hi-sec I have no issues with. Ganking in hi-sec at -10.0, I do take umbrage. This is CCP saying to me that criminals may commit acts of crime in hi-sec with impunity. And reinforced again by GoonSwarm making Hulkageddon a permanent Event. I have to no issues with Player Run Events. I do have issue with CCP allowing mechanics that make a single type of game play (industrialists) a profit center for an Alliance.
In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless.
If you are an industrialist and agree with this post please comment.
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Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
I read a bloo bloo bloo. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo.
I read repetitive unoriginal quote.
Tal
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baltec1
1313
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Posted - 2012.06.01 23:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I am an industrialist and I do not agree. 99% of people you see in high sec day in day out will not try to kill you. This fact alone tells me that CONCORD is doing its job. |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo. I read repetitive unoriginal quote. Tal And? I'm sorry, you're still a bloo blooing. |
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
These forums are bloody brilliant nowadays. |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2012.06.01 23:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo. I read a butthurt Mittani is trying to strike at CCP's wallet in revenge for his 30-day ban. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
423
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
The rules are there. You fail to understand them. This is not CCP's fault. Check out the new Orca model, brought to you by the Unified Inventory System
http://i.imgur.com/InJgK.jpg-á
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Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
642
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Keep whining on these boards and nothing will ever get done. Give to my TAKE BACK YOUR GAME FUND and we, the players will do something about it. We are the only ones that can do this. Not CCP. CCP doesn't care. If you really did care, you'd put your ISK where your whine is and help do something about it. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
257
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
I read that far too many people on both sides of this are acting like butt hurt little children. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
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Posted - 2012.06.01 23:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fiddler Hays wrote:If you are an industrialist and agree with this post please comment. I'm an industrialist and I don't agree.
You're also a bit misinformed about the various mechanics you're complaining about.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo. I read repetitive unoriginal quote. Tal And? I'm sorry, you're still a bloo blooing.
Wow, well done you managed some more real words, I'm impressed. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
788
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'll bite!
You mention sandbox, so lets break down your suggestions. This time, lets pretend you truly want a sandbox.
1. Concord:
If this were a real sandbox, there would be no concord and "Space Police" would be player driven.
2. Security Status:
Well, again, if this were completely a sandbox and you were really for the idea of one, there wouldn't be a security status.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1867
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"?
Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched.
Tal
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Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo. I read repetitive unoriginal quote. Tal
Thank God you signed your post. I wouldn't have known it was you if you didn't.
Gabriel Kaile, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defense League, five time winner of Goonwaffe Weekly's Most-Charming Smile award |
Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. Tal
This is an exploit, deemed so by CCP.
Gabriel Kaile, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defense League, five time winner of Goonwaffe Weekly's Most-Charming Smile award |
Roisin Saoirse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fiddler Hays wrote:1. Criminal/Outlaw status in hi-sec is a farce. CCP has implemented a criminal system that has CONCORD shoot on site a criminals ship if they have a certain negative status and try to enter a certain level of hi-sec. I think most (Industrialists) would presume that would be to remove said criminal from his ship so that he cannot do harm. Yet it has been explained to me by experience PvPers, that that level of CONCORD can be easily tanked and is just for GÇ£realismGÇ¥. It is only when you commit a crime does the Uber CONCORD step in to take your ship. Those PvPers you spoke to are clueless. For one thing, it isn't CONCORD who shoots negative sec pilots, it's the faction navies who are essentially just slightly tougher rats. CONCORD can't be tanked at all, even if you could somehow get a titan into highsec, once it had aggressed and got a GCC it would also die (albeit painfully slowly).
Otherwise, I agree the consequences are too lenient. When people just decide on a whim 'heck let's go gank someone in highsec for the lulz' without even giving a second thought to the negative effects (which are actually pretty laughable tbh) it's pretty clear it's no real deterrent.
And no, this isn't a whine it's just an observation. |
baltec1
1313
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. Tal
You will get banned for that, report anyone doing it. |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. Tal You will get banned for that, report anyone doing it.
How would you know if they were? You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
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Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. Tal You will get banned for that, report anyone doing it. How would you know if they were?
If you suspect it, petition it.
Gabriel Kaile, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defense League, five time winner of Goonwaffe Weekly's Most-Charming Smile award |
Kimmi Chan
Perkone Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fiddler Hays wrote:Since most of the miners/industrialist like to whine or want to make hi-sec a haven, this is an attempt to point out CCPGÇÖs inconsistent handling of hi-sec which I believe is causing all of the angst.
First. Eve Online is a sandbox game, PvP centric and difficult to play (See: State Obvious). For their own reasons, CCP has setup a NPC controlled area called hi-sec where they say the environment is safer. Not safe. Safer. You are subject to PvP anywhere within this environment and they have placed a NPC controlled entity called CONCORD to exact consequences on whomever commits a criminal act. Specifically the elimination of your ship and the possibility of being attacked by other players. No podding of course.
This criminal act will affect your security status. CCP has setup CONCORD to attack an Outlaws/Criminals ship once they reach a certain negative security status and enter a certain level of hi-sec.
Gamers that PvP in hi-sec say this system is perfect and well balanced. They commit a criminal act, CONCORD takes their ship and they get a a security hit. The victim normally loses their ship and possibly podded with loss of all implants. (Balanced??)
I disagree and feel CCP is being inconsistent with hi-sec in the following ways:
1. Criminal/Outlaw status in hi-sec is a farce. CCP has implemented a criminal system that has CONCORD shoot on site a criminals ship if they have a certain negative status and try to enter a certain level of hi-sec. I think most (Industrialists) would presume that would be to remove said criminal from his ship so that he cannot do harm. Yet it has been explained to me by experience PvPers, that that level of CONCORD can be easily tanked and is just for GÇ£realismGÇ¥. It is only when you commit a crime does the Uber CONCORD step in to take your ship.
2. This farce is further confirmed by CCPGÇÖs statements that ganking is fine even at -10.0 in hi-sec. Ganking in hi-sec I have no issues with. Ganking in hi-sec at -10.0, I do take umbrage. This is CCP saying to me that criminals may commit acts of crime in hi-sec with impunity. And reinforced again by GoonSwarm making Hulkageddon a permanent Event. I have to no issues with Player Run Events. I do have issue with CCP allowing mechanics that make a single type of game play (industrialists) a profit center for an Alliance.
In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless.
If you are an industrialist and agree with this post please comment.
Stop making demands to change the game mechanics. They have been changed enough.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. You will get banned for that, report anyone doing it. How would you know if they were? The same way Talon determines that it's what's happening.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gabriel Kaile wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:James 315 wrote:Fiddler Hays wrote:In my opinion as someone that has been playing this game for years, the only way to stop all the angst with the industrialist gamer is to truly have CONCORD do its job. If a person has committed enough crimes to have excluded themselves from piloting a ship in hi-sec, they should not be allowed to fly around tanking CONCORD until they strike again. These people have a means of raising their security status. Let them do the time and suffer the consequences of hi-sec crime. Otherwise, the "realism" of criminal status is pointless. They already nerfed suicide ganking by making it more difficult to reclaim security status. So...you're asking for "one more nerf"? Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. Tal This is an exploit, deemed so by CCP.
I think I've read of ways to circumvent this, I could be wrong though.
Tal
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Crap you can just recycle new characters, your mains will never get touched. You will get banned for that, report anyone doing it. How would you know if they were? The same way Talon determines that it's what's happening.
Same way Tippia knows everything.
Tal
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Roisin Saoirse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:How would you know if they were? It's BS tbh. The idea that it's an exploit is nonsense. If you just delete the alt and create a new one with a different name there's not a thing CCP can do about it, nor can anyone prove you did it to shed the negative sec.
Anyone who petitions it is just wasting slots that could be used for legitimate and important petitions. |
baltec1
1313
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Roisin Saoirse wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:How would you know if they were? It's BS tbh. The idea that it's an exploit is nonsense. If you just delete the alt and create a new one with a different name there's not a thing CCP can do about it, nor can anyone prove you did it to shed the negative sec. Anyone who petitions it is just wasting slots that could be used for legitimate and important petitions.
Several people have been banned for this very thing. This is why every member of BAT Country was told not to do this. CCP can very easily find out if people are doing this. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Roisin Saoirse wrote:The idea that it's an exploit is nonsense. GǪaside from CCP saying that it's an exploit.
Quote:If you just delete the alt and create a new one with a different name there's not a thing CCP can do about it, nor can anyone prove you did it to shed the negative sec. GǪaside from the GMs, which can check the account history and ban you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gabriel Kaile wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:I read a bloo bloo bloo. I read repetitive unoriginal quote. Tal Thank God you signed your post. I wouldn't have known it was you if you didn't. Gabriel Kaile, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defense League, five time winner of Goonwaffe Weekly's Most-Charming Smile award
I actually believe you wouldn't.
I wouldn't believe you where the "five time winner of Goonwaffe Weekly's Most-Charming Smile award" if you didn't post it every time either along with your name hmmmm dumb ass.
Oh forgot
Tal |
Myrkala
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 23:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
I've tried highsec ganking once or twice, really wasn't that entertaining to me...
Miners should learn a thing or two about piloting a ship and being smart, like staying aligned in belts, using instaundock bookmarks ect...
I really don't understand all the tears, and I don't really understand the hate either... I liked being able to buy cheap ships because I actually hate to grind for them.
Do Goons secretly love mining so much that they want to make it more profitable? :S
Probably more likely is they have stocked up on Hulks and blueprints before trying to increase the demand by blowing stuff up.
But anyways its pretty cool that a large determined group can have such an impact, manipulate and gain from it. Kudos. |
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