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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2178
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Posted - 2012.06.02 05:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Day 1 report can be found here.
Day 2 report can be found here.
Day 3 Summary
Factional Warfare
CCP reviewed CSM's prepared FW summit notes and there was an in-depth discussion on things that need to be tweaked in FW. CCP is committed to further work on FW to polish the work done in Inferno.
We got a demo of some FW UI improvement designs that look very nice.
There was a broad discussion of what to do if one faction steamrolls another. CCP's general position is that they want to wait and see if this becomes an issue, and in the meantime will address issues that clearly need immediate attention.
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.
Ship Balance & Iteration
CCP Ytterbium presented his plans for changes to basically every subcap hull in the game and got CSM feedback. He's been very busy.
Treaties
A ninja session to discuss possible treaty implementations, which would provide the means for corporations and alliances to make contracts about standings, taxation, rental fees, etc. Treaties were originally going to be a part of Dominion but got dropped due to resource constraints.
This concept may possibly be combined with an iteration on the current contracts system.
Content
Discussed short-term changes to the tutorial, upcoming reversions on some of the recent incursion changes (too many things were changed at once), improvements to Concord LP store, live events.
Security
We received a report on the recent trends in bot-detection and banning.
"New" Player Experience / "New Player" Experience
Goal of TeamPE is to make playing EVE even more fun. We dove into a discussion of the NPE, mentoring newbies, making EVE better for noobs, and in particular stuff that would improve the game for everyone. A big focus was better methods of finding and presenting information, and answering questions (ie: "what do I need to do to fly an Interceptor properly?")
EVE Economy
Graph p*rn! Dr. EyjoG updated the CSM on the state of the EVE economy. The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |

cerbus
Caldari Prime Pony Club
75
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Posted - 2012.06.02 06:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
ship appearance customisation
I didn't realise it was for public consumption yet, nice.
Thanks. :| |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.02 07:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:(...)
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.(...).
So, no more CC options and no more WiS assets...? How unexpected.  EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh yeah that treaty stuff
One day we'll get a hold of EVE Online: Dominion 1.0 |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
436
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 09:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:(...)
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.(...). So, no more CC options and no more WiS assets...? How unexpected. 
Team Avatar have already clearly stated that they're still at the stage of prototyping gameplay concepts for WiS. Do you want the Art Department to spend their time designing visual assets for one particular idea only for the project to take a completely different track and consign all that hard work to the scrapheap? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Faith Triump
Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2012.06.02 11:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Glad to see our CSM working so hard, i know a lot of pilots that will be happy to know there one step closer to a new hello kitty paint job. |

SeenButNotHeard
Doing The Business
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 12:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
As one of the people questioning the lack of response from the CSM, to the UI changes in a previous thread, I wanted to say thanks for the updates.
Whilst there is no detailed information, I can understand the reasons for that.
Even though it must be a hell of an experience, and a lot of folks are jealous (me included!) I imagine that it must be a pretty intense 72 hours of work.
Thanks for the updates - looking forward to the minutes. |

Frying Doom
Tinfoil Hat News Ltd.
269
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 12:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thank you all for all the hard work.
I look forward to hearing about the economy (Well what you can disclose)
The treaty system will also be a plus.
And new shiny things too:) Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 18:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delete the NeX, don't expand it, ******* delete it. |

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2418
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 20:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:(...)
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.(...). So, no more CC options and no more WiS assets...? How unexpected. 
Fear not, there was actually quite a bit of discussion about Incarna and avatar content, we had an entire separate session dedicated to this feature that was a lot of fun. CCP is being very careful to make sure development resources are allocated fairly with regards to what the majority of EVE players are interested in (catching up on long-overdue spaceship content) but I was really excited to see the direction that EVE's avatar gameplay is potentially headed.
All of the attending CSM members were really engaged in the discussion too, a lot of cool ideas were generated during this session and almost everyone in the room talked far more about WiS stuff than they probably would like to admit!  Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2418
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Posted - 2012.06.02 21:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:(...)
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.(...). So, no more CC options and no more WiS assets...? How unexpected.  Team Avatar have already clearly stated that they're still at the stage of prototyping gameplay concepts for WiS. Do you want the Art Department to spend their time designing visual assets for one particular idea only for the project to take a completely different track and consign all that hard work to the scrapheap?
Exactly. With Incarna, CCP is *thankfully* focused on creating engaging gameplay first and foremost (not just walking around a room and looking cool), which at the prototype stage isn't heavily dependent on having completed art assets. Thus, the art session was dedicated to upcoming graphical and spaceship improvements instead. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.02 22:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:(...)
Art Presentation
The Art department made a presentation on the recent work that they have been doing, and what they will be working on in the near future, including new ship destruction effects, ship redesigns, new ships, ship appearance customization, and more.(...). So, no more CC options and no more WiS assets...? How unexpected.  Fear not, there was actually quite a bit of discussion about Incarna and avatar content, we had an entire separate session dedicated to this feature that was a lot of fun. CCP is being very careful to make sure development resources are allocated fairly with regards to what the majority of EVE players are interested in (catching up on long-overdue spaceship content) but I was really excited to see the direction that EVE's avatar gameplay is potentially headed. All of the attending CSM members were really engaged in the discussion too, a lot of cool ideas were generated during this session and almost everyone in the room talked far more about WiS stuff than they probably would like to admit! 
The promise of the biggest banquet ever in the future is not a solution to the present starvation. And CCP is starving both the WiS minority and the hisec majority. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 22:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The promise of the biggest banquet ever in the future is not a solution to the present starvation. And CCP is starving both the WiS minority and the hisec majority.
Boy, you're definitely a glass half empty guy aren't you? "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2418
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Posted - 2012.06.02 22:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The promise of the biggest banquet ever in the future is not a solution to the present starvation. And CCP is starving both the WiS minority and the hisec majority.
We've been over this issue before so I won't belabor the point, but CCP is a business. Last summer's subscription numbers spoke volumes about what *most* EVE players want from EVE, and where they wanted the developers to be spending their time and money (spoiler alert - its spaceships).
It doesn't look like they intend to let avatar fans "starve" in the short term even if they are very much refocused onto the FiS features that most players crave. We saw a good mix of both short-term and long term iterations on avatars - the only thing you'll be "starving" for in the meantime is details as we're all busy preparing our documentation of the summit and getting approval from CCP for release. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.03 07:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The promise of the biggest banquet ever in the future is not a solution to the present starvation. And CCP is starving both the WiS minority and the hisec majority.
Boy, you're definitely a glass half empty guy aren't you?
That may be the consequence of getting two Awesome Expansions (TM) under CCP's belt with nothing for me in them.
Also i have an habit of being right when I smelled rats in the past, which is a PITA because I don't really control when or why i smell rats... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.03 08:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The promise of the biggest banquet ever in the future is not a solution to the present starvation. And CCP is starving both the WiS minority and the hisec majority.
We've been over this issue before so I won't belabor the point, but CCP is a business. Last summer's subscription numbers spoke volumes about what *most* EVE players want from EVE, and where they wanted the developers to be spending their time and money (spoiler alert - its spaceships). (...)
And CCP figured that as so many people where asking iteration on 25% of the game, that meant that no novelties were needed for the other 75%.
Amazingly enough, numbers don't float, marketing guys are becoming increasingly uneasy (I'm kinda waiting for a 2x1 offer, start a new account and get a second one for free ) and something smells veeery wrong.
CCP is adressing the wrong issue. Lack of iteration is bad, but what is killing the game is the lack of long term subscription hooks a.k.a endgame for all the people who don't play it the right way and choose to stay in hisec.
75% of the players are in hisec.
95% of the content resources are being spent elsewhere (included those devoted to lay waste on hisec).
I am of the few who feel that CCP is not getting the priorities right.
On the up side, this means that we all may be wrong and there is a succesful road ahead for EVE by fostering nullsec customers' loyalty and ignoring hisec's. Good for CCP.
On the down side, customers buy what they want to buy, and not what you want to sell, and as longs a mroe than 50% of the players are not buying "EVE" but "the only game in town", I may not be totally misguided on what CCP is doing wrong... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 09:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Indahmawar continues to demonstrate the blatant misuse of stats in the service of terrible arguments. |

Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 09:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
75% of the players are in hisec.
No they aren't. This has been proven wrong to you repeatedly even though you don't like to admit it, so at this stage, you're deliberately saying untruthful things (like someone who publically says they're going to unsub, but doesn't).
Also known as "lying".
If you want to progress the WiS debate, then the first step is to stop discrediting both yourself and your stated goals with these dishonest, easily disproven statistics.
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.03 11:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bossy Lady wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
75% of the players are in hisec.
No they aren't. This has been proven wrong to you repeatedly even though you don't like to admit it, so at this stage, you're deliberately saying untruthful things (like someone who publically says they're going to unsub, but doesn't). Also known as "lying". If you want to progress the WiS debate, then the first step is to stop discrediting both yourself and your stated goals with these dishonest, easily disproven statistics.
Interestingly enough, it is CCP itself who claimed that 75% of the characters log in to hisec. I used to say it was 71%, then CCP Diagoras tweeted it up to 72%, and at Fanfest it already was 75%.
Of course, you are free to disprove that and claim that most of those characters are being logged in just as a filler so hisec doesn't looks too deserted, but my own guess is that people logs in to hisec to conduct business there... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
437
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 13:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:marketing guys are becoming increasingly uneasy Source? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
750
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Posted - 2012.06.03 14:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:marketing guys are becoming increasingly uneasy Source?
My mail inbox & the funny stuff going on with the offers they send to my accounts. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
437
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 14:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:marketing guys are becoming increasingly uneasy Source? My mail inbox & the funny stuff going on with the offers they send to my accounts. CCP's marketing department is sending you mails discussing their 'increasing unease' to your mail inbox? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
170
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Posted - 2012.06.03 15:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Guess everything related to null revamp is NDA'ed as you barely mention it? Are they dipping into the pots of gold the community gave them in the brain-storming threads they spammed the forum with just before they changed forums?
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Factional Warfare
CCP reviewed CSM's prepared FW summit notes and there was an in-depth discussion on things that need to be tweaked in FW. CCP is committed to further work on FW to polish the work done in Inferno.
We got a demo of some FW UI improvement designs that look very nice. Yay! UI improvements .. that will surely fix everything! 
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:There was a broad discussion of what to do if one faction steamrolls another. CCP's general position is that they want to wait and see if this becomes an issue, and in the meantime will address issues that clearly need immediate attention. "Becomes" as in future tense? Are they dumb and blind? Shakorites essentially started "Inferno" with maximum warzone control thanks to taking everything they could while a system could be flipped in one sitting (5-6hrs) .. only way 'back' is to blob the crap out a system until it flips as denial of docking prevents reships which would otherwise be used to tailor a gang/fleet to whichever plex came under attack.
Luckily for CCP a noob-swarm, aka. FWeddit, is that blob so I bet the metrics will show that everything is hunky-dory and Devs move on ..
PS: "Issues that clearly need Immediate attention" .. does that mean they will devote some man-minutes to sorting out the glaring imbalances that exist particularly on the Amarr/Shakorite front .. imbalances that they have been aware of for pretty much the entire period since Empyrean Age launched or does it mean that they will make yet another futile attempt at squashing the timer bug? |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
533
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP is adressing the wrong issue. Lack of iteration is bad, but what is killing the game is the lack of long term subscription hooks a.k.a endgame for all the people who don't play it the right way and choose to stay in hisec.
If you deliberately chose to avoid 75% of end-game content and stay in the starter area for the rest of your character life, CCP won't go out of their way to change the game to push the end-game onto you. In fact you should be happy that EVE allows you to stay in one small area doing your little favorite thing over and over and still gives you some sense of progression. As far as I know no other MMO does that. |

Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 18:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Bossy Lady wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
75% of the players are in hisec.
No they aren't. This has been proven wrong to you repeatedly even though you don't like to admit it, so at this stage, you're deliberately saying untruthful things (like someone who publically says they're going to unsub, but doesn't). Also known as "lying". If you want to progress the WiS debate, then the first step is to stop discrediting both yourself and your stated goals with these dishonest, easily disproven statistics. Interestingly enough, it is CCP itself who claimed that 75% of the characters log in to hisec. I used to say it was 71%, then CCP Diagoras tweeted it up to 72%, and at Fanfest it already was 75%. Of course, you are free to disprove that and claim that most of those characters are being logged in just as a filler so hisec doesn't looks too deserted, but my own guess is that people logs in to hisec to conduct business there...
You do know that characters is a far cry from "players", so why do you keep going on like this other than to just be intentionally inflammatory? |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
752
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 19:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP is adressing the wrong issue. Lack of iteration is bad, but what is killing the game is the lack of long term subscription hooks a.k.a endgame for all the people who don't play it the right way and choose to stay in hisec. If you deliberately chose to avoid 75% of end-game content and stay in the starter area for the rest of your character life, CCP won't go out of their way to change the game to push the end-game onto you. In fact you should be happy that EVE allows you to stay in one small area doing your little favorite thing over and over and still gives you some sense of progression. As far as I know no other MMO does that.
As I stated a few times, customers buy what they want to buy, not what you want to sell.
Let's say that you manufacture Hardcore Cola, a soft drink so sour that drinking it is an acquired taste. You suggest your customers to water it until they get used to its taste. Then, some sunny day, you learn that 75% of your customers keep watering it forever. What are your options?
A, water out the formula of Hardcore Cola B, make Hardcore Cola even more bitter so no amount of water can make it palatable to the Flanders C, launch Hardcore Cola Smooth and onslaught the smooth cola market with it
Option A will mostly please most of your customers, but will **** off the 25% who actually dink it the way it is meant Option B certainly will teach your customers that Hardcore Cola is not for lilies, but you will lose 75% of your revenue in the process Opction C is a win-win solution, your loyal customers can get all the sourness they like, and you may begin getting customers who never thought that Hardcore Cola was for them
CCP is actively doing B, misguided by the few who "drink like real men".
And I mostly think that C si the only way out.
EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
752
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 19:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Bossy Lady wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
75% of the players are in hisec.
No they aren't. This has been proven wrong to you repeatedly even though you don't like to admit it, so at this stage, you're deliberately saying untruthful things (like someone who publically says they're going to unsub, but doesn't). Also known as "lying". If you want to progress the WiS debate, then the first step is to stop discrediting both yourself and your stated goals with these dishonest, easily disproven statistics. Interestingly enough, it is CCP itself who claimed that 75% of the characters log in to hisec. I used to say it was 71%, then CCP Diagoras tweeted it up to 72%, and at Fanfest it already was 75%. Of course, you are free to disprove that and claim that most of those characters are being logged in just as a filler so hisec doesn't looks too deserted, but my own guess is that people logs in to hisec to conduct business there... You do know that characters is a far cry from "players", so why do you keep going on like this other than to just be intentionally inflammatory?
Oh, yes, those cunning hisec characters, they log in themselves without player intervention. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

SerratedX
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 11:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:[Interestingly enough, it is CCP itself who claimed that 75% of the characters log in to hisec. I used to say it was 71%, then CCP Diagoras tweeted it up to 72%, and at Fanfest it already was 75%.
Everyone has characters in hisec. Nullsec, lowsec and even wormhole players have characters that never leave hisec or atleast spend the majority of their time there. Market, hauler, missioning/incursioning, locator and industry alts for example. Or even characters that have originally been created only to reserve a name. ALTS.
This means that even though my interest in the game is nullsec, some of my characters (who have very low skill points compared to my "main" characters, who are in nullsec) sit in hisec 24/7.
Please stop saying 75% of players are hisec players. |

Indahmawar Fazmarai
752
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
SerratedX wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:[Interestingly enough, it is CCP itself who claimed that 75% of the characters log in to hisec. I used to say it was 71%, then CCP Diagoras tweeted it up to 72%, and at Fanfest it already was 75%.
Everyone has characters in hisec. Nullsec, lowsec and even wormhole players have characters that never leave hisec or atleast spend the majority of their time there. Market, hauler, missioning/incursioning, locator and industry alts for example. Or even characters that have originally been created only to reserve a name. ALTS. This means that even though my interest in the game is nullsec, some of my characters (who have very low skill points compared to my "main" characters, who are in nullsec) sit in hisec 24/7. Please stop saying 75% of players are hisec players.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 75% of the characters log in to hisec
EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |

Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
31
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Posted - 2012.06.04 15:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Well let me show you my stats: - I have been living in WH for last year (I think even more)
Characters that I have and log in in WH - 2
Characters that I have and log in in Hi-sec - 7
Reason? Market information, Logistics (as in freight movement), and other similar intel (spais)
I would also like to notion, that Eve is a business that works best when it is growing, In fact I would say that CCP main production is not what eve is now but more how it is changing over time.
Since I don't think we would have as big subscription as it is now if Eve remained same from 2002
As such if we view the models you proposed based on iteration and innovation the CCP stance is actually closer to the C version: they work on hardcore stuff, they also work on general stuff for everyone, and they currently in research phase for WiS too.
While your proposition looks like it is C based on current content, but if we look at it as outlined above it is actually closer to the A - Since you are interested in CCP moving its focus from "hardcore" to "WiS" or as you have described it - "watering down the formula" |
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