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Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
   |
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The insurance system rewards incompetence, you should not be given a single cent for getting your ship blow up. The insurance is also an isk faucet that adds isk to the game for no work required - look at how it was abused when people did insurance scams by self-destructing and making profits.
No only does the seller of the ship gain money, but the Buyer of the ship could make that money back by self destructing it with platinum insurance. Resulting in a doubling of isk in the system.
e.g. Bob buys Rokh from Jill for 140 million. Bob insures platinum ship for 30 million for 140 million back.
Bob take the Rokh to PVP and dies in a fire. Bob gets 140 million back, a net gain of 110 million back in his wallet(lost 30 million + cost of fittings total). Meanwhile Jill gets to keep the 140 million she got from selling the ship.
As a result there is 250 million isk in the game instead of the starting 140 million. Now that is a big increase in the amount of isk within the economy. All it took was the pilot to intentionally or unintentionally lose his ship. Its not like missioning or other PVE which requires work.
Removing insurance of the game will create a more hardcore and more balanced game. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
402
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
no
. |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is without a doubt that insurance injects isk into the game.
It doesn't make sense either.
Combat ships would not have insurance since there is always a high chance of it being destroyed. Any insurance company that did this would go bankrupt in real life.
Besides you should never fly what you can't afford to lose. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
You're aware that insurance doesn't work like that, right? You don't get back whatever you paid for the ship, you get back a fraction of the mineral price of the hull.
eh |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:You're aware that insurance doesn't work like that, right? You don't get back whatever you paid for the ship, you get back a fraction of the mineral price of the hull.
Ship destruction ensures the recycling and reduction of minerals used within the game.
Insurance generates isk for the destruction of the ship. The person who sold you the ship doesn't lose any isk. The NPC gives you isk that is generated out of thin air, it didn't come from someone else's pockets, it was generated within the game.
In real life Insurance gives you money from a pool that is generated by fees paid by people who are subscribed to the insurance programs of that company. That money is not generated out of thin air like in this game. |
Susie Chow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
This game does not need to **** over new players any more than it already does. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
What's the problem in what you describe? |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Ship destruction ensures the recycling and reduction of minerals used within the game.
How exactly does this work?
eh |
Frying Doom
Tinfoil Hat News Ltd.
269
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
no
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:What's the problem in what you describe?
You buy a ship from someone for 140 million.
You ensure ship for 30 million with a 140 million payout.
Ship gets blown up you get 140 million back (110 net since you paid 30 million for it)
The seller of the ship still has the 140 million.
You get 140 million back after insurance.
Starting
Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk circulating
170mil + 0mil = 170mil
Purchase
Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk
30 mil + 140 mil = 170 mil
You pay 100% insurance
Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk
0 + 140 mil = 140 mil
Ship blow up you get paid out
Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk
140 mil + 140 mil = 280 mil
Final Total Isk - Starting Total isk
280mil - 170 mil = 110 million
A 110 million was added into the isk circulation of the game, devaluing isk and causing inflation.
Isk is added into the game as a faucet, vastly increasing the amount of isk in the game. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
And? |
Obnoxious Fly
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Insurance *is* an isk faucet, but pales in comparassion to high sec bounties.
I would approve if Insurance started paying Insurance as a % of the ship's mineral cost, delivered to your clone station.  |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:And?
110 million isk injected creating 280 million from 170 million. That nearly doubles the amount of isk in the game.
If you double the isk in the game the prices of everything double.
Isk devalues and everything becomes much more expensive.
Insurance may not be as problematic as bounties, but it is still an obvious issue that adds to the problem.
Insurance shouldn't even exist for combat ships since they are used from combat and are highly likely to be destroyed. The insurance company would go bankrupt. |
Leisen
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:e.g. Bob buys Rokh from Jill for 140 million. Bob insures platinum ship for 30 million for 140 million back.
Bob take the Rokh to PVP and dies in a fire. Bob gets 140 million back, a net gain of 110 million back in his wallet(lost 30 million + cost of fittings total). Meanwhile Jill gets to keep the 140 million she got from selling the ship.
Dear lord, who taught you math? |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
188
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
While I agree there is far too much ISK flooding into the game I think from the QEN its not as large as you think, and I think this should be the primary ISK facet at least I expect thats how CCP thought the majoritory of ISK would be generated. I think NPC bounties and incursion payouts are a far more problematic source of ISK |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
1031
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Remove clone upgrade cost completely and I will be happy to wave goodbye to ship insurance forever.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
You should not be given a single bit of isk when you risk your ship and lose it. It should be a tougher lesson when losing a ship. |
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:You're aware that insurance doesn't work like that, right? You don't get back whatever you paid for the ship, you get back a fraction of the mineral price of the hull. Ship destruction ensures the recycling and reduction of minerals used within the game. Insurance generates isk for the destruction of the ship. The person who sold you the ship doesn't lose any isk. The NPC gives you isk that is generated out of thin air, it didn't come from someone else's pockets, it was generated within the game. In real life Insurance gives you money from a pool that is generated by fees paid by people who are subscribed to the insurance programs of that company. That money is not generated out of thin air like in this game.
and how do you get the insurance in the first place? Out of thin air? No you pay for it, with ISK, sometimes that insurance runs out and you buy it again..... hmmmm doesn't sound like thin air does it? Your brain may have suffered brain damage from drinking pod fluid. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
60
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:And? Geez I explain it you and you still don't get it even though I explicitly said it you stupid monkey.
You aren't very bright you know that?
Oh that's right - you don't
|
Leisen
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:You should not be given a single bit of isk when you risk your ship and lose it. It should be a tougher lesson when losing a ship.
Somebody isn't using T2 modules or ships. |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
cyndrogen wrote:Leysritt wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:You're aware that insurance doesn't work like that, right? You don't get back whatever you paid for the ship, you get back a fraction of the mineral price of the hull. Ship destruction ensures the recycling and reduction of minerals used within the game. Insurance generates isk for the destruction of the ship. The person who sold you the ship doesn't lose any isk. The NPC gives you isk that is generated out of thin air, it didn't come from someone else's pockets, it was generated within the game. In real life Insurance gives you money from a pool that is generated by fees paid by people who are subscribed to the insurance programs of that company. That money is not generated out of thin air like in this game. and how do you get the insurance in the first place? Out of thin air? No you pay for it, with ISK, sometimes that insurance runs out and you buy it again..... hmmmm doesn't sound like thin air does it? Your brain may have suffered brain damage from drinking pod fluid.
You pay 30 million for a 100 million insurance.
Where does that 70 million come from? |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
563
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:
e.g. Bob buys Rokh from Jill for 140 million. Bob insures platinum ship for 30 million for 140 million back.
Bob take the Rokh to PVP and dies in a fire. Bob gets 140 million back, a net gain of 110 million back in his wallet(lost 30 million + cost of fittings total). Meanwhile Jill gets to keep the 140 million she got from selling the ship.
OR Bob takes it to PVP once, doesn't die in a fire, does PVE for the rest of the time and runs out his insurance without claiming it. CCP Diagoras should dig up some numbers how many insurance policies go unclaimed. I think it's quite a lot.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt
Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Leisen
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:
You pay 30 million for a 100 million insurance.
Where does that 70 million come from?
WHOA! WHERE ARE YOU GETTING FREE SHIPS?! :D |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
If Insurance is not a big deal as people say, then i'm sure no one would miss it or object to it being removed. |
Alara IonStorm
2350
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
I would like t see it gone past 4 months for new players. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
1031
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ship insurance is one of several game mechanics that, while helpful in the games early days, it has in fact aged badly. It needs to be addressed All of you theorizing on real life insurance and ISK sinks and magical minerals need to stop slapping each other and encourage CCP to look into the matter.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
710
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:What's the problem in what you describe? You buy a ship from someone for 140 million. You ensure ship for 30 million with a 140 million payout. Ship gets blown up you get 140 million back (110 net since you paid 30 million for it) The seller of the ship still has the 140 million. You get 140 million back after insurance. Starting Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk circulating 170mil + 0mil = 170mil Purchase Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk 30 mil + 140 mil = 170 mil You pay 100% insurance Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk 0 + 140 mil = 140 mil Ship blow up you get paid out Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk 140 mil + 140 mil = 280 mil Final Total Isk - Starting Total isk 280mil - 170 mil = 110 million A 110 million was added into the isk circulation of the game, devaluing isk and causing inflation. Isk is added into the game as a faucet, vastly increasing the amount of isk in the game.
Logic fail  |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:If Insurance is not a big deal as people say, then i'm sure no one would miss it or object to it being removed.
keep liking your own posts with an alt it's hilarious
insurance partially subsidizes destroyed ships, which means that a destroyed ship is more easily replaced, which means that minerals remain in demand
the partial subsidy of destroyed ships is also useful to newer players who would otherwise be affected more by losing their T1 fit Omens than I am when I lose a faction fit Zealot
insurance has seen two fairly significant nerfs - one was the much-needed 2010 nerf which killed off the self-destructing of ships in Jita for profit, the other was the removal of insurance payouts for ships lost to CONCORD
insurance is fine
eh |
Makkal Hanaya
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 11:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:You should not be given a single bit of isk when you risk your ship and lose it. It should be a tougher lesson when losing a ship.
I'm a newish player here, but as I understand it, when I undock my Punisher, I'm risking my ship. While there are ways to minimize risk, there's no way for me to eliminate it altogether. Insurance means that even if I lose the ship, I can at least replace the hull.
Perhaps it goes against the spirit of the game, but I like the safety net it provides while I'm learning to play and seeing just how much I can risk. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
568
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 11:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yet another self-rationalised, self-aggrandizing demand to nerf yet another brick in the Eve wall.
Pathetic.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
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