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Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.08.30 12:43:00 - [1] Ok as far as I know I have a point, so bare with me Abso - dps, tank and range are great Damnation - 250k ehp with gang bonuses running Sleipner - nice tank and dps but hard to solo in coz of shield tank Claymore - don't know much about this one Nighthawk - great tank, dps meh Vulture - not sure about this one either, hardly seen it And last Astarte - great dps, who flies these things? Eos - this ship exists? My character is gallente spec'd and I want to get into the Astarte but hardly ever see them compared to Abso and sliepner (spelling) and its been on my mind if they can tank as well as hit like hell, I don't want to just go eft with this. A lot of isk and time to get into these things if u get me, so can some Astarte pilots please stand up and show there views. Cheers, Gib
theZJ Caldari Suicidal Trainingscamp	Posted - 2009.08.30 13:04:00 - [2] Quote: Nighthawk - great tank, dps meh It's a lie. A pvp-fitted Nighthawk has an hideous tank.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.08.30 13:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Gibbo3771 Ok as far as I know I have a point, so bare with me Abso - dps, tank and range are great Damnation - 250k ehp with gang bonuses running Sleipner - nice tank and dps but hard to solo in coz of shield tank Claymore - don't know much about this one Nighthawk - great tank, dps meh Vulture - not sure about this one either, hardly seen it And last Astarte - great dps, who flies these things? Eos - this ship exists? My character is gallente spec'd and I want to get into the Astarte but hardly ever see them compared to Abso and sliepner (spelling) and its been on my mind if they can tank as well as hit like hell, I don't want to just go eft with this. A lot of isk and time to get into these things if u get me, so can some Astarte pilots please stand up and show there views. Cheers, Gib what an astarte can do, a megathron can do better, and the astarte will die to the megathron. in all honesty, the field CS are great BC-sized ships, but they are outperformed by the battleships. They are more of a pimp factor. the fleet CS however, are a very diferent ballpark. the damnation is at the core of many RR fleets, same goes for the vulture. The claymore gives out very good bonuses to tackling, and is somewhat agile. The eos lacks a bit tho. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.08.30 13:17:00 - [4] Originally by: theZJ Quote: Nighthawk - great tank, dps meh It's a lie. A pvp-fitted Nighthawk has an hideous tank. Although ur right, Astarte is my main concern just becuase the nighthawk is ****e lol
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.08.30 13:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Gibbo3771 Ok as far as I know I have a point, so bare with me Abso - dps, tank and range are great Damnation - 250k ehp with gang bonuses running Sleipner - nice tank and dps but hard to solo in coz of shield tank Claymore - don't know much about this one Nighthawk - great tank, dps meh Vulture - not sure about this one either, hardly seen it And last Astarte - great dps, who flies these things? Eos - this ship exists? My character is gallente spec'd and I want to get into the Astarte but hardly ever see them compared to Abso and sliepner (spelling) and its been on my mind if they can tank as well as hit like hell, I don't want to just go eft with this. A lot of isk and time to get into these things if u get me, so can some Astarte pilots please stand up and show there views. Cheers, Gib what an astarte can do, a megathron can do better, and the astarte will die to the megathron. in all honesty, the field CS are great BC-sized ships, but they are outperformed by the battleships. They are more of a pimp factor. the fleet CS however, are a very diferent ballpark. the damnation is at the core of many RR fleets, same goes for the vulture. The claymore gives out very good bonuses to tackling, and is somewhat agile. The eos lacks a bit tho. In terms of versatility here, Astarte still not worth it, 0.0 or low sec work flying along aide a falcon and crow
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.30 20:43:00 - [6] I wouldn't call it exactly hideous, but, yeah, a PVP fit NH basically has the tank of a Drake. It also has basically the DPS of a Drake. And less flexibility than a Drake. And costs 200 mill more. Woo.
VanNostrum The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.08.30 20:44:00 - [7] Hey! Sleipnir is an awesome solo boat!
foobarx	Posted - 2009.08.30 22:40:00 - [8] Back before the nanonerfs you could make them so much faster than battleships they were good for roaming gangs - I used to see mixed HAC/CS gangs all the time. Now it seems like the speed advantage is small enough you're better off with a battleship. It's a lot cheaper to lose anyhow.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.08.30 23:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Typhado3 on 30/08/2009 23:07:53 for the love of god. COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES The number of people who complain about command ships (Which use gang assist modules if you didn't pick it up by now) not having enough dps or tank (when they are supposed to be using gang assist modules) is fracking insane. Your talking about a support ship not filling the roles of a standard fleet ship well enough and it's not supposed to that's not it's main goal. If you wanna use it for that it may work cause you can always use any ship for whatever you want (see mining rokh, solo logistics) but you won't get the best out of it by doing that. ok I'll understand if you wanna say the eos isn't as good as the other command ships or something but comparing a cs to a drake or to a bs is about as useful as comparing a hulk to a rokh and complaining about cargo space on the rokh. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.30 23:12:00 - [10] People don't tend to use field commmands these days, as they're not hugely better than their tier 2 counterpart, with a much larger pricetag. It's just not as obvious with the Sleipnir, because it shield tanks where the 'cane armour tanks. And you have a similar situation with the Astarte. 1000dps with cruiser guns may not float your boat, but it's not sloppy either.
Dagobert Dog	Posted - 2009.08.30 23:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Typhado3 Edited by: Typhado3 on 30/08/2009 23:07:53 for the love of god. COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES COMMAND SHIPS USE GANG ASSIST MODULES The number of people who complain about command ships (Which use gang assist modules if you didn't pick it up by now) not having enough dps or tank (when they are supposed to be using gang assist modules) is fracking insane. Your talking about a support ship not filling the roles of a standard fleet ship well enough and it's not supposed to that's not it's main goal. If you wanna use it for that it may work cause you can always use any ship for whatever you want (see mining rokh, solo logistics) but you won't get the best out of it by doing that. ok I'll understand if you wanna say the eos isn't as good as the other command ships or something but comparing a cs to a drake or to a bs is about as useful as comparing a hulk to a rokh and complaining about cargo space on the rokh. Field Commands dont have a special Command link bonus, so why should a field command use a ganglink whenn a normal battlecruiser doesnt use one eiher? Dag
Allesteria	Posted - 2009.08.31 00:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Dagobert Dog Field Commands dont have a special Command link bonus, Technically, you're wrong. "99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules" does qualify as "a special command link bonus." On the flip side, when you consider that motherships, titans, capital industrial and industrial command ships, and fleet command ships can all fit more than a single gang link without needing a command processor that isn't even really a "special" bonus anymore either. Just some observations. Originally by: Dagobert Dog so why should a field command use a ganglink whenn a normal battlecruiser doesnt use one eiher? For the same reason a normal battlecruiser should. Support setups require support modules. Not every setup is or should be about super-gank. The ferox is a decent example of a ship that performs poorly in a gank role but could do well in a support role, especially when flown by a pilot with good leadership skills.
Cadius Vect CARDASSIANS	Posted - 2009.08.31 00:53:00 - [13] Field command ships do make interesting small gang/solo boats the abso, sleip and NH(fit correctly) are great examples the astarte not so much, but in reality are pretty much equaled or outdone by their races battleships(except for mobility) and to some extent though certainly cost wise by the tier 2 battlecruisers. The fleet command ships serve 1 purpose which they accomplish very well, huge buffer tank and gang links in the role of gang bonus ships for large fleets as their name would imply. ----------------------------------------------------------- Killboard: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Cadius+Vect-kills.html
xxxak Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.31 03:13:00 - [14] I pimped out Field Commandship can be quite an effective ship, especially for gate camping, and in the case of the Sleip, roaming gangs.
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2009.08.31 03:28:00 - [15] damnations, vultures are wing commanders eos-es are fleet commanders: up to +25.87% EW strength+range aaand +38.81% ECCM claymores are nano supporters but their ganglinks could be spread across the others in a large fleet: vulters can use the tackle thing, damnations the signature thing shrug - putting the gist back into logistics
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.08.31 04:00:00 - [16] Well, gang boosting mechanics need to be changed with CS (and MS) buffed accordingly. Look at how a HAC upgrades from a Cruiser, and look at how a CS do not grade accordingly. Even with the crutch of link bonuses taken into account, i belive most CS would do well with additional slots. The buff to the ships easily balanced out by containing bonuses to only persist within grid-distance or similar, which would be good for everyone and put CS in the battle. CS should be able to mount their links without giving up slots in comparison to their BC counterpart, they should also have the relevant increase in grid and CPU. Essentially an increase of one, or even two high slots (but only one primary weapon slot) across the grid would not be overdoing it in my oppinion (perhaps an extra mid instead for the Eos, considering the slot placement of drone-upgrade modules). On top of that, i think the Fleet/Field division is pretty obsolete. I'd rather see both ships being 3-link but having different bonuses. The step between bonus/role (1-link + no bonus to 3-link + bonus) is just too steep and make the Field commands closer to BC than fleet CS. That is just wrong. One potentially appealing side of a CS with the extra link slots and grid could be stepping a bit into the Marauder "domain" with disposable highs (but without the role bonuses of Marauders ofc) should they opt out of links. Then you could potentially see people beginning to use Field commands in PvP both with Links and with eg., Nos/Neut utility. So 6 primary weapon slots + 3 utility slots worth 600pg/150cpu for all CS would be a good start. In short: Nerf effect-ranges of gang bonuses, to force the field command onto the field. Buff CS accordingly to better retain a role on the field instead of using Links as a crutch (which downplay CS to HACs).
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.08.31 08:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Allesteria Originally by: Dagobert Dog Field Commands dont have a special Command link bonus, Technically, you're wrong. "99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules" does qualify as "a special command link bonus." On the flip side, when you consider that motherships, titans, capital industrial and industrial command ships, and fleet command ships can all fit more than a single gang link without needing a command processor that isn't even really a "special" bonus anymore either. Just some observations. Originally by: Dagobert Dog so why should a field command use a ganglink whenn a normal battlecruiser doesnt use one eiher? For the same reason a normal battlecruiser should. Support setups require support modules. Not every setup is or should be about super-gank. The ferox is a decent example of a ship that performs poorly in a gank role but could do well in a support role, especially when flown by a pilot with good leadership skills. while a good argument, still doesn't save the field CS, making them no more than pimped up tier2 BC's. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.08.31 10:12:00 - [18] Thanks for all the feedback, I think ill still train for the Astarte but just for the sake of having bc lvl5, myrmidon is a nice ship and bc are now cheaper coz of rig changes, prob the best size ships for dps-tank-price ratio if u like engaging under sentries hehe
Merbusent	Posted - 2009.08.31 10:26:00 - [19] The only common thing of each is domination of each lower class of ship, the idea is to pvp those lesser ship types and win.
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.08.31 11:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Merbusent The only common thing of each is domination of each lower class of ship, the idea is to pvp those lesser ship types and win. This isent entirely true, If I'm out in a t1 frig, I come across a zeolot I know I can kill it, same with an Abso if I can pick off the drones in time and have patience and ammo lol there is infact lots, ishkur vs rifter can go **** up if the rifter pilot is good enough :)
Allesteria	Posted - 2009.08.31 19:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Grimpak while a good argument, still doesn't save the field CS, making them no more than pimped up tier2 BC's. Honestly, I agree. I like them only for mission running fun, not efficiency, and even then I only really like the astarte. If you really want a mobile command ship tier one battlecruisers are almost infinitely superior. Less likely to be primaried and all but the brutix have at least one high slot not devoted to their primary weapons for it.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.08.31 22:12:00 - [22] Edited by: Grimpak on 31/08/2009 22:13:12 Originally by: Allesteria Originally by: Grimpak while a good argument, still doesn't save the field CS, making them no more than pimped up tier2 BC's. Honestly, I agree. I like them only for mission running fun, not efficiency, and even then I only really like the astarte. If you really want a mobile command ship tier one battlecruisers are almost infinitely superior. Less likely to be primaried and all but the brutix have at least one high slot not devoted to their primary weapons for it. that's why I'm selling my abso. not worth having it, since my damnation can be 10x more usefull to the gang than an abso, wich can be easily replaced by a harbinger with a T2 fit, wich is like 3x less the cost, and fully insurable. field CS'es lack oompf, and a true role. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.

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