Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

No good can come of this.

---

Originally by: Siona Windweaver

---

Lee Dalton posting. What could possibly go wrong?

---

Originally by: Lee Dalton

---

Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

No good can come of this.

---

How so? That was an exerpt from Jita local - before local stopped working too.

---

Originally by: Wang LeeMei

---

so whats the ETA of fixage ?
towing me somewhere else doesnt rly help lol

fly safe

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

We are making progress in recovering Jita. No final ETA yet.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

---

Originally by: Horchan

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

---

This.

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

I don't think Jita would have been broken if CCP hadn't changed something and broken it. Why does this keep happening, again and again and again and again...?

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

I don't think Jita would have been broken if CCP hadn't changed something and broken it. Why does this keep happening, again and again and again and again...?

---

That's not true, there are months since any issues affected Jita.

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

I don't think Jita would have been broken if CCP hadn't changed something and broken it. Why does this keep happening, again and again and again and again...?

---

Originally by: Ralnik

---

it died again I think..

---

Originally by: Ralnik

---

it died again I think..

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

I don't think Jita would have been broken if CCP hadn't changed something and broken it. Why does this keep happening, again and again and again and again...?

---

That's not true, there are months since any issues affected Jita.

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

we are throttling pilots in.

---

Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

Originally by: Horchan

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

---

This.

---

That.

---

Originally by: ShadowGod56

---

Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

Originally by: Horchan

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

---

This.

---

That.

---

them?

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Jita is having further problems.

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Originally by: Roto Rooter

---

I don't think Jita would have been broken if CCP hadn't changed something and broken it. Why does this keep happening, again and again and again and again...?

---

That's not true, there are months since any issues affected Jita.

---

Uh, by "why does this keep happening" I meant CCP installing changes that break things and make Eve unplayable. It has been repeating ad nauseum in the three years I've been in Eve. No one could get away with this in any of the IT shops where I have worked.

---

Originally by: F90OEX

---

How come where not getting offered when we log in, (assuming your in jita) the option to move to another system ?

---

Originally by: King****o

---

how long do think will it take to solve that issue ?

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Originally by: F90OEX

---

How come where not getting offered when we log in, (assuming your in jita) the option to move to another system ?

---

Because the node Jita was on died again but the cluster still thinks it's alive. We are still working on this.

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It would help us a lot if we knew.

We are still working on it. When the node Jita was on died the 2nd time the cluster did not recognise its departure. We are working to resolve that and stabilise Jita.

---

Originally by: Mrs Doubtfire

---

So you saying that in the progress of changing nodes, the recieving node did not recognise the transfer and dropped the system? Does that mean that you're afraid of data loss, since you've not rebooted the servers a long time ago??

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Originally by: Mrs Doubtfire

---

So you saying that in the progress of changing nodes, the recieving node did not recognise the transfer and dropped the system? Does that mean that you're afraid of data loss, since you've not rebooted the servers a long time ago??

---

No, the data is intact in the database. We want to avoid a reboot if at all possible for the players that are not affected by Jita misbehaving.

---

Originally by: Da' Hold

---

whaaa

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Tranquility will be rebooted shortly, watch out for the in-game message.

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

Reboot at 22:30 GMT.

---

Originally by: Myung Chul

---

how long do reboots take?

---

Originally by: Another Liberthas

---

So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

---

Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

Originally by: Myung Chul

---

how long do reboots take?

---

No more then a week. 8 days at most.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It should be a quick reboot.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

Originally by: Lee Dalton

---

<3 thanks for the updates

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It should be a quick reboot.

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

Yeah, that's cute and all, but this is a game.

---

Originally by: hired goon

---

Why the hell should the entire game be rebooted just because ONE SYSTEM and a few carebears are affected? They all pile into the system and expect it to work flawlessley with no lag. It's like trying to bathe in a volcano and complaining it's too hot.

---

Originally by: hired goon

---

Why the hell should the entire game be rebooted just because ONE SYSTEM and a few carebears are affected? They all pile into the system and expect it to work flawlessley with no lag. It's like trying to bathe in a volcano and complaining it's too hot.

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It should be a quick reboot.

---

Originally by: Shidhe

---

There is no amount of expanding capacity that will fix Jita - and even if it did, it would be at the cost of distorting the whole EvE market. When is CCP going to introduce differential market taxes, the same way it has variable rates for office use in stations?

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

Yeah, that's cute and all, but this is a game.

---

We pay for it, so it's not "just a game." It's a paid online service. What don't you understand about that?

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

Originally by: Milla Jovo

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It should be a quick reboot.

---

OH really, How many techs are working a late sunday night?

---

Originally by: Milla Jovo

---

Originally by: CCP Explorer

---

It should be a quick reboot.

---

OH really, How many techs are working a late sunday night?

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

Originally by: Wellfan

---

I'm still logged in

---

Originally by: Rock Pile

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

You are sorely kidding yourself if you do not believe there are failures with the banking and credit systems out there.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

As CCP Explorer pointed out in this thread, Jita has been well behaved for months. That's proof that Jita can work. It's obvious that CCP changed something today and broke things. The problem is not Jita per se, but putting changes online that are insufficiently tested and vetted, a chronic CCP problem.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Another Liberthas

---

So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

---

No, you know nothing about software development and maintenance, which I have been doing for 46 years. Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve. I have worked on a few online systems in which we never introduced serious failures over the course of more than a decade. It's all about the understanding of "mission critical" and about testing and QA. If your banking or credit card or stock market online services were as flaky as Eve, you would no doubt be very upset and would complain and change services. Eve is "only a game" but we pay for it, just like other more serious online services that always work and always stay up, despite changes being put online frequently.

---

Originally by: Ukucia

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Another Liberthas

---

So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

---

No, you know nothing about software development and maintenance, which I have been doing for 46 years. Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve. I have worked on a few online systems in which we never introduced serious failures over the course of more than a decade. It's all about the understanding of "mission critical" and about testing and QA. If your banking or credit card or stock market online services were as flaky as Eve, you would no doubt be very upset and would complain and change services. Eve is "only a game" but we pay for it, just like other more serious online services that always work and always stay up, despite changes being put online frequently.

---

You're lying. If you had anywhere close to that many years experience, you'd have a far better understanding of software development.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Like i said, everyone on a game forum works in the software industry :P

---

Originally by: Rock Pile

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

I lol at people who think problems like this are exclusive to EvE.

---

I LOL at ppl who think any of us would put with failures like this in any of the banking, credit card, ecommerce or market systems we deal with.

---

You are sorely kidding yourself if you do not believe there are failures with the banking and credit systems out there.

---

Originally by: Wellfan

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Like i said, everyone on a game forum works in the software industry :P

---

Nah, some of us actually work in hardware :-)

---

Originally by: Asif BADKARMA

---

Hardware crew representing

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Yes it is just a game lol.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

We pay what? ú10 or something per month, assuming you even pay with cash. Grand scheme of everything, for something that works (on average) 23/7 all the time, i'm pretty happy with my ú10.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

For comparison, today ive blown ú10 on wine, ú10 a month isn't what i'd consider an issue.

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

@ the regional tax rates - That's actually a pretty decent idea, it would decentralise the market nicely. However, that would go against the Eve idea of total player control i guess. Hmm

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Yes it is just a game lol.

---

No, it's a paid online service. If it were free you could make the case that "it's just a game." It's not free.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

We pay what? ú10 or something per month, assuming you even pay with cash. Grand scheme of everything, for something that works (on average) 23/7 all the time, i'm pretty happy with my ú10.

---

I don't pay anything at all extra to use my banking and credit cards, to use online banking, to use ecommerce sites, and market trading systems cost only a few bucks per trade. Yet if any of those systems malfunctioned as frequently and seriously as Eve, there would be serious consquences like going out of business or even regulatory investigations and charges. Your logic is seriously flawed.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

For comparison, today ive blown ú10 on wine, ú10 a month isn't what i'd consider an issue.

---

OK, then I guess you won't complain next time your credit card fails to function, or your online banking causes your funds to become unavailable for a day or two, or your bank balance disappears, or the item you paid for on eBay or Amazon disappears. After all, you pay NOTHING per month extra for those services, so they should be even less important than Eve at ú10 per month.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

@ the regional tax rates - That's actually a pretty decent idea, it would decentralise the market nicely. However, that would go against the Eve idea of total player control i guess. Hmm

---

Uh, no. Jita is a human market phenomenon, not anything peculiar to Eve, and not anything that can be "decentralized" without destroying the functionality that causes Jita to be what it is. The same market centralization occurs in securities markets, in newspaper classifieds in any city, etc. Once a marketplace has become established, both buyers and sellers use that marketplace because it is where everyone else is.

The congestion caused by pilots in Jita could be solved if CCP would implement a way to place items for sale in Jita without transporting them there and without being there to create the sell orders, and a way to buy items in the Jita market without going there to buy them and pick them up. After all, there are other things in Eve that work over distance by Pure Magic. Why not the Jita market? Or the entire market?

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Originally by: Asif BADKARMA

---

Hardware crew representing

---

does building your own count as hardware work? otherwise i'm just classed as a broke student :P

---

Originally by: Wellfan

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Like i said, everyone on a game forum works in the software industry :P

---

Nah, some of us actually work in hardware :-)

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Yes it is just a game lol.

---

No, it's a paid online service. If it were free you could make the case that "it's just a game." It's not free.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

We pay what? ú10 or something per month, assuming you even pay with cash. Grand scheme of everything, for something that works (on average) 23/7 all the time, i'm pretty happy with my ú10.

---

I don't pay anything at all extra to use my banking and credit cards, to use online banking, to use ecommerce sites, and market trading systems cost only a few bucks per trade. Yet if any of those systems malfunctioned as frequently and seriously as Eve, there would be serious consquences like going out of business or even regulatory investigations and charges. Your logic is seriously flawed.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

For comparison, today ive blown ú10 on wine, ú10 a month isn't what i'd consider an issue.

---

OK, then I guess you won't complain next time your credit card fails to function, or your online banking causes your funds to become unavailable for a day or two, or your bank balance disappears, or the item you paid for on eBay or Amazon disappears. After all, you pay NOTHING per month extra for those services, so they should be even less important than Eve at ú10 per month.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

@ the regional tax rates - That's actually a pretty decent idea, it would decentralise the market nicely. However, that would go against the Eve idea of total player control i guess. Hmm

---

Uh, no. Jita is a human market phenomenon, not anything peculiar to Eve, and not anything that can be "decentralized" without destroying the functionality that causes Jita to be what it is. The same market centralization occurs in securities markets, in newspaper classifieds in any city, etc. Once a marketplace has become established, both buyers and sellers use that marketplace because it is where everyone else is.

The congestion caused by pilots in Jita could be solved if CCP would implement a way to place items for sale in Jita without transporting them there and without being there to create the sell orders, and a way to buy items in the Jita market without going there to buy them and pick them up. After all, there are other things in Eve that work over distance by Pure Magic. Why not the Jita market? Or the entire market?

---

Originally by: Khemul Zula

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Originally by: Asif BADKARMA

---

Hardware crew representing

---

does building your own count as hardware work? otherwise i'm just classed as a broke student :P

---

On the internet that gives you 15 years of experience with computer hardware.

If you had to figure out whether one of the RAM sticks was defective then add 5 more years.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Yes it is just a game lol.

---

No, it's a paid online service. If it were free you could make the case that "it's just a game." It's not free.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

We pay what? ú10 or something per month, assuming you even pay with cash. Grand scheme of everything, for something that works (on average) 23/7 all the time, i'm pretty happy with my ú10.

---

I don't pay anything at all extra to use my banking and credit cards, to use online banking, to use ecommerce sites, and market trading systems cost only a few bucks per trade. Yet if any of those systems malfunctioned as frequently and seriously as Eve, there would be serious consquences like going out of business or even regulatory investigations and charges. Your logic is seriously flawed.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

For comparison, today ive blown ú10 on wine, ú10 a month isn't what i'd consider an issue.

---

OK, then I guess you won't complain next time your credit card fails to function, or your online banking causes your funds to become unavailable for a day or two, or your bank balance disappears, or the item you paid for on eBay or Amazon disappears. After all, you pay NOTHING per month extra for those services, so they should be even less important than Eve at ú10 per month.

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

@ the regional tax rates - That's actually a pretty decent idea, it would decentralise the market nicely. However, that would go against the Eve idea of total player control i guess. Hmm

---

Uh, no. Jita is a human market phenomenon, not anything peculiar to Eve, and not anything that can be "decentralized" without destroying the functionality that causes Jita to be what it is. The same market centralization occurs in securities markets, in newspaper classifieds in any city, etc. Once a marketplace has become established, both buyers and sellers use that marketplace because it is where everyone else is.

The congestion caused by pilots in Jita could be solved if CCP would implement a way to place items for sale in Jita without transporting them there and without being there to create the sell orders, and a way to buy items in the Jita market without going there to buy them and pick them up. After all, there are other things in Eve that work over distance by Pure Magic. Why not the Jita market? Or the entire market?

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

The congestion caused by pilots in Jita could be solved if CCP would implement a way to place items for sale in Jita without transporting them there and without being there to create the sell orders, and a way to buy items in the Jita market without going there to buy them and pick them up. After all, there are other things in Eve that work over distance by Pure Magic. Why not the Jita market? Or the entire market?

---

Originally by: fatherted1989

---

Originally by: Ukucia

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Another Liberthas

---

So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

---

No, you know nothing about software development and maintenance, which I have been doing for 46 years. Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve. I have worked on a few online systems in which we never introduced serious failures over the course of more than a decade. It's all about the understanding of "mission critical" and about testing and QA. If your banking or credit card or stock market online services were as flaky as Eve, you would no doubt be very upset and would complain and change services. Eve is "only a game" but we pay for it, just like other more serious online services that always work and always stay up, despite changes being put online frequently.

---

You're lying. If you had anywhere close to that many years experience, you'd have a far better understanding of software development.

---

Like i said, everyone on a game forum works in the software industry :P

---

Originally by: Rhivre

---

It should also be noted, that in most MMO eulas explain that you pay for the privilege of playing on the servers, they make no mention that the servers will be available whenever you want

---

Originally by: Selquita

---

plus a full physics engine

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Rhivre

---

It should also be noted, that in most MMO eulas explain that you pay for the privilege of playing on the servers, they make no mention that the servers will be available whenever you want

---

It should also be noted that not everthing in a EULA stands up under law. Law trumps EULAs when push comes to shove.

---

Originally by: Ruby Khann

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

The congestion caused by pilots in Jita could be solved if CCP would implement a way to place items for sale in Jita without transporting them there and without being there to create the sell orders, and a way to buy items in the Jita market without going there to buy them and pick them up. After all, there are other things in Eve that work over distance by Pure Magic. Why not the Jita market? Or the entire market?

---

Are you really so dense that you don't know how Courier Contracts and Trade skills work?

Really?

---

Originally by: Barakkus

---

I really, really do...honest :)
And, this is nothing, imagine if they had clients like the ones we have at work *audi*cough*bp*cough* and you had to explain to them why your website went down *cough*linux*cough* for a whole hour and 45 minutes (on friday afternoon) b/c some jerkoff marketing guy somewhere had a hissy fit. lol

CCP has far less problems than most gaming companies...people need to get a grip around here lol.

---

Originally by: Passageway

---

Originally by: Selquita

---

plus a full physics engine

---

Really

That'll be the physics engine that lets one ship pass right through another, and has you slow down in space for no particular reason?

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Another Liberthas

---

So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

---

No, you know nothing about software development and maintenance, which I have been doing for 46 years. Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve. I have worked on a few online systems in which we never introduced serious failures over the course of more than a decade. It's all about the understanding of "mission critical" and about testing and QA. If your banking or credit card or stock market online services were as flaky as Eve, you would no doubt be very upset and would complain and change services. Eve is "only a game" but we pay for it, just like other more serious online services that always work and always stay up, despite changes being put online frequently.

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Rhivre

---

It should also be noted, that in most MMO eulas explain that you pay for the privilege of playing on the servers, they make no mention that the servers will be available whenever you want

---

It should also be noted that not everthing in a EULA stands up under law. Law trumps EULAs when push comes to shove.

---

Originally by: Sieren

---

If there would be as many scammers in Newyork Stock Market as in Jita Local, All of the systems they run at NY would crash..

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

http://www.mashie.org/eve/rfo.jpg

Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Edited by: James Vayne on 30/08/2009 23:01:41
Server restart at 23:15

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Updated. Server start up at 2330 GMT.

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Updated. Server start up at 2330 GMT.

---

Originally by: Root CanalAs CCP Explorer pointed out in this thread, Jita has been well behaved for months. That's proof that Jita can work. It's obvious that CCP changed something today and broke things. The problem is not Jita per se, but putting changes online that are insufficiently tested and vetted, a chronic CCP problem.[/quote

---

I Dont Care what u have been doing for how many years and so on, u have been in a place that by the sounds of what u have said, that has a lot of time to test ur new software updates.

If CCP had to test as much as u have we would prob not even have hit trinity yet where would the game be then, instead of complaining and use the same arguement again and again and again, be glad that they are actually aware of a problem within a few minutes, most banks aint. it usually takes untill midnight nomatter when it happens for a bank to fix anything, cause thats when activity is low, also its brilliant that ccp has started to give so many updates every time they have a problem now back in time they where not that good, so Good job CCP

now on to the hamster jokes bare in mind i have only read to page 3 by now

Who forgot to give the forge hamsters food, so every 1 has to wait for them to get fresh again?

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Updated. Server start up at 2330 GMT.

---

You're making me look bad!

---

Originally by: Ambein Flambein

---

firstly, what the hell software was around 46 years ago? that had to consist of like 3 lines of code back then, if it even exsisted.

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Updated. Server start up at 2330 GMT.

---

You're making me look bad!

---

And dead hamsters are making our floors look bad

---

Originally by: Josh Silver

---

Use Amarr, how hard can it be jeez.

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Updated. Server start up at 2330 GMT.

---

You're making me look bad!

---

And dead hamsters are making our floors look bad

---

Originally by: Sieren

---

If there would be as many scammers in Newyork Stock Market as in Jita Local, All of the systems they run at NY would crash..

---

Originally by: James Vayne

---

Originally by: Josh Silver

---

Use Amarr, how hard can it be jeez.

---

and then amarr would crash?

---

Originally by: hired goon

---

Does anyone else get the feeling, that since none of the experts are on atm the night watch warden just said "switch it off and back on again" ?

---

Originally by: Root Canal

---

Originally by: Sieren

---

If there would be as many scammers in Newyork Stock Market as in Jita Local, All of the systems they run at NY would crash..

---

It has a lot to do with rules in place and the enforcement of the rules, and maybe even something to do with government regulation and criminal penalties. If you want to know about stock scams, check out the history of the Vancouver Stock Exchange. Scams and pump-and-dump stuff galore, but no crashed systems.

For the most part the exchange and related systems make the gaming industry look positively sick. I used to work in the financial information field, where we reported trade and quote prices for all the exchanges. The only time in my 13 years there that we were off the air was when an Argentine warship turned on its megawatt combat radar at a pier a few blocks from our computer center. High-intensity radio energy messes with transistors and all our computers went down except for a couple of militarized models that were fully shielded.

At all other times we avoided failures by having duplexed systems throughout and by very, very carefully checking and testing all changes before putting them online, including testing changes by playing back entire days of recorded online traffic to see whether any bugs would reveal themselves. We had the ability to digitally record all the traffic coming in on all the communication lines from all the exchanges and play it back into test systems. We understood "mission critical" and acted accordingly.

---

Originally by: hired goon

---

Does anyone else get the feeling, that since none of the experts are on atm the night watch warden just said "switch it off and back on again" ?

---

Originally by: hired goon

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Does anyone else get the feeling, that since none of the experts are on atm the night watch warden just said "switch it off and back on again" ?

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Originally by: hired goon

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Does anyone else get the feeling, that since none of the experts are on atm the night watch warden just said "switch it off and back on again" ?

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Tranquility is back up! Let the flying commence!

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Tranquility is back up! Let the flying commence!

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Originally by: Ivanna Nuke

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Tranquility is back up! Let the flying commence!

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TQ's login server is broken

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Originally by: Wellfan

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Originally by: fatherted1989

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Like i said, everyone on a game forum works in the software industry :P

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Nah, some of us actually work in hardware :-)

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Some of us actually work in both. I've been programming since 1963 and been working continuously in software and some in hardware since 1966.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Originally by: Sieren

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If there would be as many scammers in Newyork Stock Market as in Jita Local, All of the systems they run at NY would crash..

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It has a lot to do with rules in place and the enforcement of the rules, and maybe even something to do with government regulation and criminal penalties. If you want to know about stock scams, check out the history of the Vancouver Stock Exchange. Scams and pump-and-dump stuff galore, but no crashed systems.

For the most part the exchange and related systems make the gaming industry look positively sick. I used to work in the financial information field, where we reported trade and quote prices for all the exchanges. The only time in my 13 years there that we were off the air was when an Argentine warship turned on its megawatt combat radar at a pier a few blocks from our computer center. High-intensity radio energy messes with transistors and all our computers went down except for a couple of militarized models that were fully shielded.

At all other times we avoided failures by having duplexed systems throughout and by very, very carefully checking and testing all changes before putting them online, including testing changes by playing back entire days of recorded online traffic to see whether any bugs would reveal themselves. We had the ability to digitally record all the traffic coming in on all the communication lines from all the exchanges and play it back into test systems. We understood "mission critical" and acted accordingly.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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I used to work in the financial information field, where we reported trade and quote prices for all the exchanges.

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Originally by: Signature

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Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

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Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing

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Eve runs on one of the most complex game servers ever built, so if it hiccups every couple of months or on a patch day(like in every mmo under the god dam sun) its not a big deal.

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Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing

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Again, read the news, browse the forums. Sh*t happens, get the **** over it.

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Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing

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Edit: after reading the verbal diarrhoea fully it is clear to me that you cant seem to draw the line between a game and reality. You also dont seem to know how courier contracts work.

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Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing

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And the EULA says CCP can do whatever they want with the server, and that you only pay for the privilege to connect to it, and ccp dont have to let you do that, and can revoke said privilege on a whim.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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If, for instance, you buy a car and the contract of sale says you have to pay but the dealer doesn't have to deliver the car to you, that will not stand up in court. The dealer will lose and you will win. If you contract with an accountant to provide you with accounting service and the contract states that the accountant has no obligation to provide you with anything, the contract will not stand up in court. The accountant will lose and you will win.

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Originally by: James Vayne

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If you're still queuing. Restart the client.

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Originally by: Selquita

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And, furthermore, both games suffer from the same after-patch bugs and random downtimes, so in essence, you wind up playing even less WoW than you do EVE.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Originally by: Another Liberthas

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So CCP should never make changes ever, amirite?

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No, you know nothing about software development and maintenance, which I have been doing for 46 years. Never in that time have I seen any system which gets broken so badly and so regularly as Eve. I have worked on a few online systems in which we never introduced serious failures over the course of more than a decade. It's all about the understanding of "mission critical" and about testing and QA. If your banking or credit card or stock market online services were as flaky as Eve, you would no doubt be very upset and would complain and change services. Eve is "only a game" but we pay for it, just like other more serious online services that always work and always stay up, despite changes being put online frequently.

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Originally by: Khemul Zula

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Originally by: Root Canal

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If, for instance, you buy a car and the contract of sale says you have to pay but the dealer doesn't have to deliver the car to you, that will not stand up in court. The dealer will lose and you will win. If you contract with an accountant to provide you with accounting service and the contract states that the accountant has no obligation to provide you with anything, the contract will not stand up in court. The accountant will lose and you will win.

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These will fail because contract law requires that both sides get something. These examples have absolutely nothing to do with your point (it would if CCP shutdown the servers for a few days straight, not for a few hours or even a day or two).

CCP is still supplying the service. They just don't guarentee the quality of that service.

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Originally by: Signature

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Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

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Originally by: Washell Olivaw

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Originally by: Root Canal

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I used to work in the financial information field, where we reported trade and quote prices for all the exchanges.

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I've worked at a bank. I've seen the monthly subscription fee for the bloomberg software and a live connection to the market. No-one is going to pay that much for a game. It's the price of stability.

Second, about half the systems were from the '60s and '70s. Only updated when hardware was phased out. Would you pay 15 a month for a superstable version of EVE as it was in 2003? Keep in mind, 90% of the current content and game mechanics would be gone. No POS, no sov, no cap ships, no t3, no t2, no missions, no exploration, no rigs, etc, etc.

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Originally by: Barakkus

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Edited by: Barakkus on 30/08/2009 23:09:05

Originally by: Ambein Flambein

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firstly, what the hell software was around 46 years ago? that had to consist of like 3 lines of code back then, if it even exsisted.

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COBOL (1960), LISP (1965 - finalized), Fortran (1958).

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Originally by: Root Canal

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No, Quotron service was not cheap, but the public didn't pay our prices. Brokers and institutions paid our prices, which were for real time exchange data. We had no delayed data. The public, who dealt with brokers, got the benefit of our service for no explicit fee, just a call or visit to a broker.

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Originally by: Signature

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Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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OK, so it won't be a big deal if your banking or credit card fails to work, or your online banking stops working, or your online purchases disappear. Right?

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Originally by: Washell Olivaw

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Quick off the cuff calculation, sprinkling liberately with unannounced downtimes and including the dailies, gives the EVE server an uptime of 95%. No court is going to consider a 95% uptime as CCP failing to deliver.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Originally by: Washell Olivaw

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Quick off the cuff calculation, sprinkling liberately with unannounced downtimes and including the dailies, gives the EVE server an uptime of 95%. No court is going to consider a 95% uptime as CCP failing to deliver.

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If your credit card functioned only 95% of the time, that would mean it would fail to function for 438 hours per year, or 18.25 days per year. You can bet the credit card company or clearing house would get hammered mightily, might be shut down by regulators, would be sued up the gazoo, and might lose all their customers to competitors.

95% uptime is crummy in almost any field. 99% is not even good enough in most fields. Reliability and job safety people know this and publish material on it. If your heart only worked 99% of the time, that would mean 5,256 minutes during the year in which your heart would not beat. That is 87.6 hours. Try it and see how you like 99% uptime.

For you to experience no more than a couple-three seconds of missed heartbeats, your heart has to function at 99.9999999% uptime. In technical systems, 99.999% uptime is considered very good. Resilient, fault-tolerant systems can meet or exceed that.

So don't tell me how 95% uptime is OK. It's not.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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No, it's a paid online service. If it were free you could make the case that "it's just a game." It's not free.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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I don't pay anything at all extra to use my banking and credit cards, to use online banking, to use ecommerce sites, and market trading systems cost only a few bucks per trade. Yet if any of those systems malfunctioned as frequently and seriously as Eve, there would be serious consquences like going out of business or even regulatory investigations and charges. Your logic is seriously flawed.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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OK, then I guess you won't complain next time your credit card fails to function, or your online banking causes your funds to become unavailable for a day or two, or your bank balance disappears, or the item you paid for on eBay or Amazon disappears. After all, you pay NOTHING per month extra for those services, so they should be even less important than Eve at ú10 per month.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Amatuer economist nonsense

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Originally by: Root Canal

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So don't tell me how 95% uptime is OK. It's not.

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Originally by: Signature

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Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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46 years heh ?

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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What software ?

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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30000 simultaneous users ?

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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With tons of real-time calculations backed with db access ?

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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With major expansion or upgrade every 8-6 month ?

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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You say I have worked on systems with no serious failures over decade -

What systems ? Mail service ? :)

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Originally by: OmniBeton

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And what is by your definition "serious failure" ?

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Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari

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F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said

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Originally by: Chribba

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Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows

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Originally by: Zex Maxwell

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For those who was gone all day, what happened? and did CCP learn anything new to Jita's misbehaving?

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Originally by: Zex Maxwell

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...and did CCP learn anything new to Jita's misbehaving?

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Removing Jita local isn't a problem, it's a fix.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Central and regional systems were all fully duplexed and had power backup.

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Originally by: Answers.com

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A system with two distinct and separate sets of facilities, each of which is capable of assuming the system function while the other assumes a standby status. Also known as redundant system.

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Originally by: F'nog

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Root Canal,

I get where you're coming from...

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Originally by: Adeena Torcfist

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CCP Explorer, have you actually considered a trial run of say, about a week, of actually muting Jita local, & seeing what kind of effect that has on performance & stability?

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Originally by: Root Canal

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If your credit card functioned only 95% of the time, that would mean it would fail to function for 438 hours per year, or 18.25 days per year. You can bet the credit card company or clearing house would get hammered mightily, might be shut down by regulators, would be sued up the gazoo, and might lose all their customers to competitors.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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95% uptime is crummy in almost any field. 99% is not even good enough in most fields. Reliability and job safety people know this and publish material on it. If your heart only worked 99% of the time, that would mean 5,256 minutes during the year in which your heart would not beat. That is 87.6 hours. Try it and see how you like 99% uptime.


For you to experience no more than a couple-three seconds of missed heartbeats, your heart has to function at 99.9999999% uptime. In technical systems, 99.999% uptime is considered very good. Resilient, fault-tolerant systems can meet or exceed that.

So don't tell me how 95% uptime is OK. It's not.

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Originally by: Shidhe

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Originally by: Adeena Torcfist

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CCP Explorer, have you actually considered a trial run of say, about a week, of actually muting Jita local, & seeing what kind of effect that has on performance & stability?

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Sigh. The roads are too crowded, so widen the roads... Eventually quick fixes have to be abandoned, and the causes have to be looked at. And the problem with Jita is that the Jita market is a hugely over used resource where there is no variation in pricing to limit the use - an artificial and unrealistic assumption.

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Originally by: Jonathan Malcom

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And those systems go down all the time. I work IT for one of the 5 largest credit card processors in the world and those networks fail constantly. It's just very compartmentalized, so when a network goes down, the number of people affected is limited.

That's not an option with Tranquility. When it goes down, it affects everyone.

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Originally by: Root Canal

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Originally by: F'nog

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Root Canal,

I get where you're coming from...

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I don't disagree with you. There is a difference. I'd just like to see something better than the comedy of errors that is so often the case with Eve, because I know it's possible to do better just on the basis of more attention to coding and testing. The frequency and severity of failures in Eve is, well, embarrassing. And many times it has hit people who are brand new to the game and it comprises their entire experience in Eve.

Oh well, weekend's over... other things to do.

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