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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.08.30 22:38:00 -
[1]
This is just a suggestion, not a full fledged idea. Had another Jita experience today.
I think as the game grows and more and more players head to Jita that the time has come to put a limit on the number of orders that the Jita market can handle.* Everyone goes to CNAP 44 for convience and the thought that anything and everything is there. It is not always the cheapest, but the most convenient. A limit on the market orders would force players to "dump sell" there wares in other locations, hopefully in other hubs but even if in the surrounding areas (that could still be accessed by the Forge market) that would take the traffic away from Jita CNAP 44. I don't sell in Jita, I sell in a nearby system. I suspect that many 0.0 corps drop sell in Jita out of convenience but a limit on market orders should not inconvenience them much.
I would welcome comments and suggestions.
* A limit on market orders -- A legend tallying the orders(say we define by listing) the market has with the limit printed so that you could easily tell if the limit was near being reached.
Or alternatively some items would not be lited in Jita. Say all weapon modules could not be listed but would be available in other systems (sort of a forced specializaiion.) If nearby systems were used then it would only be one hop away and the CNAP traffic would be lessened. It would still be in the Forge market. In real life there is the NYSE, The Chicago Merchantile Exchange, NASDAQ, they specialize. Not every type of transaction goes on in one exchange.
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.30 22:40:00 -
[2]
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Words of wisdom to consider.
There's nothign wrong with convenience.
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Eve-Online Parodies: Music To Laugh To |
Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2009.08.30 22:47:00 -
[3]
When you think about it from a larger perspective Jita in and of itself is probably one of the main factors that drives CCP toward innovation.
As the population increases and the hardware / software is pushed to its limits CCP is forced to upgrade, reinvent and adapt to the ever increasing subscription base.
This innovation not only makes the in game market experience better galaxy wide but upgrades other activities within game that can place such a strain on resources such as fleet battles, etc.
My point being, There will always be a Jita no matter what game you play, people naturally gravitate to a centralized marketplace. Putting hard-coded restrictions on the system would be the wrong way to go about fixing the problem.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.30 22:54:00 -
[4]
na, eve thrives by not having any artificial limits on stuff like this.
Jita used to be much worse before stackless-io, it's really not too bad now. Before it crashed there were 1100 people in system and no lag.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:02:00 -
[5]
Actually I suggest the complete opposite... move all orders to the 4-4 station in Jita then you can dedicate a server just for it...
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Check out our In/Out of game Website!
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:04:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nemi Lethal on 30/08/2009 23:04:36
 Originally by: Loney
Actually I suggest the complete opposite... move all orders to the 4-4 station in Jita then you can dedicate a server just for it...
I thought jita already had its own dedicated resources.
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Aethrs
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:15:00 -
[7]
This suggestion is made of fail. Don't screw with Jita, CCP has improved Jita's performance continuously since I started playing and it's extremely useful.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal
Edited by: Nemi Lethal on 30/08/2009 23:04:36
Originally by: Loney
Actually I suggest the complete opposite... move all orders to the 4-4 station in Jita then you can dedicate a server just for it...
I thought jita already had its own dedicated resources.
It does... I just FAIL at being sarcastic... and spelling too!
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Check out our Website in game or out!
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.08.31 01:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: mechtech
na, eve thrives by not having any artificial limits on stuff like this.
Jita used to be much worse before stackless-io, it's really not too bad now. Before it crashed there were 1100 people in system and no lag.
All technology reaches it limits and I made the suggestion because whether it is realized or not there is already an informal "quota" or limiting system in place, i.e. when Jita is full everyone sits at the gates clicking and waiting to get in. My suggestion was for the future when the ability to handle the problem of CNAP 44 become more extreme as more players come to play online. It would seem to me that a player would rather go to a surrounding system than wait clicking on the gate to get in and then face the problems of lag etc.
I would lean towards division of orders like the NYSE and the Chicago Merch. Exchange -- forcing (as it were) sales to be made in the outlying systems (there is always the hope that the underutilized hubs would become used but that would probably require a different tactic.) From that perspective it seems to me that players would spend less time in frustration making the game easier for all.
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.08.31 01:57:00 -
[10]
Just a further thought which could perhaps relate to WIS. Take NYC. The 5th Ave stores carry unique and expensive items and the sales people pet and stroke you. The store rents are also high but I wouldn't buy electronics there, I'd go to Canal St where the rents are lower as are the prices, or 6th Ave.; and always stay away from 8th Ave and it used to be 42nd St. where the scam artists are that would put the scammers in this game to shame.  It's all NYC but its not in one building in NYC; there are different neighborhoods that specialize in different items.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2009.08.31 12:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Haraukiae Youik
Just a further thought which could perhaps relate to WIS. Take NYC. The 5th Ave stores carry unique and expensive items and the sales people pet and stroke you. The store rents are also high but I wouldn't buy electronics there, I'd go to Canal St where the rents are lower as are the prices, or 6th Ave.; and always stay away from 8th Ave and it used to be 42nd St. where the scam artists are that would put the scammers in this game to shame. It's all NYC but its not in one building in NYC; there are different neighborhoods that specialize in different items.
The rental fee thing is kinda the key. CCP claimed to have introduced an increasing fee on broker (or was it contracts only?) the more contracts or orders there are in one place. Though it either was never introduced, or it just doesn't work as the fee is far too less to even notice it.
Adapt the numbers of the high volume fee AND finally introduce interbus inter-constellation-delivery at a low cost. That would at max create market hub constellations, surely one in the jita constellation. But for all the other regions imho it would scale market hubs in regions which prior to jita wouldn't be delivered at all.
Or that wouldn't change anything, not sure. ^^
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.09.03 21:47:00 -
[12]
The rental fee thing is kinda the key. CCP claimed to have introduced an increasing fee on broker (or was it contracts only?) the more contracts or orders there are in one place. Though it either was never introduced, or it just doesn't work as the fee is far too less to even notice it.
Adapt the numbers of the high volume fee AND finally introduce interbus inter-constellation-delivery at a low cost.(italics mine) That would at max create market hub constellations, surely one in the jita constellation. But for all the other regions imho it would scale market hubs in regions which prior to jita wouldn't be delivered at all.
...
This is an intriguing idea.
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HawkBlade
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Posted - 2009.09.03 22:08:00 -
[13]
Every "cure" for Jita has backfired... making Jita more preferred. Perhaps just leaving well enough alone might just be the ticket.
IMHO if it wasn't for all the stuck petitions and server hiccups that Jita has caused I'd be all for removing any additional support required. Jita was always known to be "the place" to get whatever but when Jita was a "lagfest" people would not go through the trouble. Lag cured, more people go to Jita now.
So I say, return the lag... return the trouble... make it suck. That'll cure Jita well enough.
Just won't be overnight.
PS: This idea is a non-starter. Placing a limit on total number of orders in Jita only rewards campers and no one else. Thus it will make it more likely to be heavily camped just to get your order in.
See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.09.03 23:00:00 -
[14]
If you make a special rule for Jita, somewhere else will just become the main market hub. Changes like this only move the problem, but doesn't eliminate it.
EVE players and mechanics has shown themselves to mandate a main market hub. No matter what CCP has tried to do in the past to eliminate it, it has always reappeared.
Besides, generally I haven't observed any problems with Jita for a while yet (apart from last Sundays reboot). Why make solutions for a non-problem?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dzil
Caldari
Sausage Banking
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Posted - 2009.09.04 02:36:00 -
[15]
The cure for Jita is the suicide gank. I'm almost as scared to move a multi-billion isk lot through Jita than I would be a low sec system; certainly more concerned than any "0.5" system. Keep suiciding smartbomb armageddons out front for a couple days, and I'll bet you see a significant shift in behavior.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.09.04 07:12:00 -
[16]
The fee is actually a brillant idea.
Let the Caldari bloody Navy make some highbrow statement that "because of the years of extraordinary high traffic and tear wear on their stations they are forced to raise broker taxes in the jita system" or something. Put a 5 % extra tax on ****, use the "money" to actually refresh the graphics on Jita 44, noone will be able to complain about THAT lol.
Then see what happens.
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Doomed Predator
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.04 09:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Words of wisdom to consider.
There's nothign wrong with convenience.
This, if you have a problem with jita then don't come here. There are plenty of smaller market hubs you can buy your stuff at.
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:46:00 -
[18]
make Jita .3 sec status and do not let people stay docked for more than 5 mins per 30 min stay in the system
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:48:00 -
[19]
well.. i do understand what your getting up, it would be nice to have a second large market hub, but can you imagine how annoying it would be to sell your stuff in jita? it would be like trying to find a ME research slot for your blueprints.. impossible and annoying.
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HawkBlade
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Posted - 2009.09.04 15:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
impossible and annoying.
See even the newbie scammer who got scammed sees the problem. PS: Really? You showed your face in public? Wow.
See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
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Creepin
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Creepin on 04/09/2009 20:12:42
I think that all these ideas about harming Jita trade as it is now are pretty stupid because of the very simple reason: no-one cares about trading namely in Jita 4-4, what people really cares about is trading in a biggest (or better yet single) trade hub. Right now it's in Jita, screw Jita & it will apper at some other system, simple as that.
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Samroski
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:16:00 -
[22]
Things are great the way they are. The more people trade at Jita, the less competition I have at the numerous minor hubs all over :)
If a limit to the number of orders is enforced at Jita- I'll use one or two alt to slowly occupy all the orders for one item.
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Miss CutieTrader
Sandline International Trading Corp
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:57:00 -
[23]
A fee, some kinda tax to use the main hub system like jita, orvoll, rens, amarr.
lets say a 10k extra pr market order
All of this 10k goes into the factions FW teams. In some ways giving FW some income.
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Jadun
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Miss CutieTrader
A fee, some kinda tax to use the main hub system like jita, orvoll, rens, amarr.
lets say a 10k extra pr market order
All of this 10k goes into the factions FW teams. In some ways giving FW some income.
Thats why the yanks had a party in Boston Harbor |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dzil
The cure for Jita is the suicide gank. I'm almost as scared to move a multi-billion isk lot through Jita than I would be a low sec system; certainly more concerned than any "0.5" system. Keep suiciding smartbomb armageddons out front for a couple days, and I'll bet you see a significant shift in behavior.
This, moving stuff in and out of jita gives me the shivers.
And in the uberlag days of jita, many were the times I became enraged and sweared I'd go make me a SB-suicide alt and go ape ****e on 4-4 
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Tido Maliyu
The Highmen Destroyers
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dzil
The cure for Jita is the suicide gank.
This is why I travel through NiyabainenÖ. Niyabainen - The safe wayÖ
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.09.06 02:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jadun
Originally by: Miss CutieTrader
A fee, some kinda tax to use the main hub system like jita, orvoll, rens, amarr.
lets say a 10k extra pr market order
All of this 10k goes into the factions FW teams. In some ways giving FW some income.
Thats why the yanks had a party in Boston Harbor
The idea is a tax of sorts on hi volume hubs, Jita being the highest volume. In real life all high volume cities or metropolitan areas have higher taxes reflected in higher rental and real estate values. When a tax rate becomes too high then people find alternatives. The taxes per se are usually used to maintain infrastructure but there always is a saturation point and a point of diminishing returns. My suggestion is to mimic this to "encourage" the use of outlying systems. As was suggested above perhaps Interbus could be resurrected.
The "fix" is not only for Jita but for any hub that could be assigned the Yulai/Jita role. (Anyone remember Yulai?)
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kerfira
If you make a special rule for Jita, somewhere else will just become the main market hub. Changes like this only move the problem, but doesn't eliminate it.
EVE players and mechanics has shown themselves to mandate a main market hub. No matter what CCP has tried to do in the past to eliminate it, it has always reappeared.
Besides, generally I haven't observed any problems with Jita for a while yet (apart from last Sundays reboot). Why make solutions for a non-problem?
Propably Amarr, I think it's the second largest hub at the moment. Not as good location as Jita, but it's also relatively central in empire space.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Carniflex
Propably Amarr, I think it's the second largest hub at the moment. Not as good location as Jita, but it's also relatively central in empire space.
My guess would be that people would just move next door, probably to either Perimeter, Sobaseki or New Caldari
Anyway, I think it's a moot point. CCP has already realised that this game WILL have one central trading hub bigger than all the rest no matter what they do. They've adapted to this and is updating their code and systems to facilitate that, not wasting time to prevent it.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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