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Thoughts and research on the capacitor

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Karol Kei	Posted - 2004.12.16 18:43:00 - [61] OMG This is the most impressive thread I have ever crashed into. A big honest and cordial thank you.
Karol Kei	Posted - 2004.12.16 18:43:00 - [62] OMG This is the most impressive thread I have ever crashed into. A big honest and cordial thank you.
Uchikage	Posted - 2004.12.16 19:58:00 - [63] Dust, to clean up the last graph a bit, which is a super graph, could you just compare cap relay and power diag vs the unmodified? Or at least make two seperate graphs for the midslot and lowslot cap-modifying items? It's kind of hard to see, but your graph makes PDU look like more of a solid mod than I thought before for helping cap. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Uchikage	Posted - 2004.12.16 19:58:00 - [64] Dust, to clean up the last graph a bit, which is a super graph, could you just compare cap relay and power diag vs the unmodified? Or at least make two seperate graphs for the midslot and lowslot cap-modifying items? It's kind of hard to see, but your graph makes PDU look like more of a solid mod than I thought before for helping cap. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.16 20:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Uchikage Dust, to clean up the last graph a bit, which is a super graph, could you just compare cap relay and power diag vs the unmodified? Or at least make two seperate graphs for the midslot and lowslot cap-modifying items? It's kind of hard to see, but your graph makes PDU look like more of a solid mod than I thought before for helping cap. I can do that but just not right now as I'm stuck in a Java networking assignment and I just spent 2 hours looking for a bug in the wrong file You'll just have to use this one. To be more clear then the lowest black one is the unmodified, the green one that has the highest max capacitor recharge rate is the cap power relay and the pdu is the magenta one in the middle that reaches nearly as high as the yellow cap flux coil and a bit lower than the red capacitor recharger. your right the pdu does pretty well given that it also boosts your grid, shield and shield recharge but it is sadly the only viable low slot cap enhancing module we have. Although the cap flux coil does have a little higher max shield recharge rate it has a lot less cap. Bah I'm going back to my programming I always meant to do a followup to this thread perhaps during christmas. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.16 20:22:00 - [66] Originally by: Uchikage Dust, to clean up the last graph a bit, which is a super graph, could you just compare cap relay and power diag vs the unmodified? Or at least make two seperate graphs for the midslot and lowslot cap-modifying items? It's kind of hard to see, but your graph makes PDU look like more of a solid mod than I thought before for helping cap. I can do that but just not right now as I'm stuck in a Java networking assignment and I just spent 2 hours looking for a bug in the wrong file You'll just have to use this one. To be more clear then the lowest black one is the unmodified, the green one that has the highest max capacitor recharge rate is the cap power relay and the pdu is the magenta one in the middle that reaches nearly as high as the yellow cap flux coil and a bit lower than the red capacitor recharger. your right the pdu does pretty well given that it also boosts your grid, shield and shield recharge but it is sadly the only viable low slot cap enhancing module we have. Although the cap flux coil does have a little higher max shield recharge rate it has a lot less cap. Bah I'm going back to my programming I always meant to do a followup to this thread perhaps during christmas. __________ Capacitor research
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.16 21:10:00 - [67] awesome work, Dust I never did the number crunching, i more like use a combination of instinct, trial and error when fitting my ships, so kudos to you Patience wins.
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.16 21:10:00 - [68] awesome work, Dust I never did the number crunching, i more like use a combination of instinct, trial and error when fitting my ships, so kudos to you Patience wins.
belzebub1	Posted - 2004.12.20 18:30:00 - [69] Edited by: belzebub1 on 20/12/2004 18:34:28 /me Staggers away from the screen dazzeled by science. Nice work Kind of helps me understand cap a bit more EDIT I seem to have lost that spell checker button again DAM Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link. http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/
belzebub1	Posted - 2004.12.20 18:30:00 - [70] Edited by: belzebub1 on 20/12/2004 18:34:28 /me Staggers away from the screen dazzeled by science. Nice work Kind of helps me understand cap a bit more EDIT I seem to have lost that spell checker button again DAM Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link. http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/
olav zaragoth	Posted - 2004.12.21 02:30:00 - [71] sorry for bumping old threads, after reading through it i got a question: You added Cap battery to the recharger types in your graph. In the info to this item i only found that it increases the total or maximum amount of cap storage on your ship. Does it also influence the recharge rate ?
olav zaragoth	Posted - 2004.12.21 02:30:00 - [72] sorry for bumping old threads, after reading through it i got a question: You added Cap battery to the recharger types in your graph. In the info to this item i only found that it increases the total or maximum amount of cap storage on your ship. Does it also influence the recharge rate ?
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.12.23 13:43:00 - [73] The base recharge rate is cap capacity / time to recharge Therefore if the cap capacity is higher then your base recharge rate is higher. Nice to see this info, reminds me of A Level Math though which isn't a good thing.
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.12.23 13:43:00 - [74] The base recharge rate is cap capacity / time to recharge Therefore if the cap capacity is higher then your base recharge rate is higher. Nice to see this info, reminds me of A Level Math though which isn't a good thing.
Chris Henry	Posted - 2004.12.23 18:48:00 - [75] Excelent thread- thank you!! Why hasnt this got a sticky already! Even for a week just for congratulations! CCP should have info like this on the site in the first place... If we can fly multi-million ISK ships you would have thought us as the RL pilots should know about things like this!! --------------- A Puppet Master
Chris Henry	Posted - 2004.12.23 18:48:00 - [76] Excelent thread- thank you!! Why hasnt this got a sticky already! Even for a week just for congratulations! CCP should have info like this on the site in the first place... If we can fly multi-million ISK ships you would have thought us as the RL pilots should know about things like this!! --------------- A Puppet Master
kebab v2	Posted - 2004.12.25 20:09:00 - [77] is it safe to assume that perhaps the same basic formula is used to calculate sheild rechage rates?
kebab v2	Posted - 2004.12.25 20:09:00 - [78] is it safe to assume that perhaps the same basic formula is used to calculate sheild rechage rates?
Ankanos	Posted - 2004.12.26 02:10:00 - [79] Edited by: Ankanos on 26/12/2004 02:14:14 nice work dust puppy :) you should look for posts by goldeneye on the eve-i.com forums.. he also has done some nice work explaining the cap/charge rate issue.. with your knowledge & graphing skills (add labels please ;p ),you two should get together and make a post that would be the final & definitive guide once and for all, for all of us who have scratched a hole in our heads trying to figure this out.. i think overall, the popular vote was that the capacitor on eve ships is modeled almost exactly the same as a real life capacitor. -and that the max recharge rate (iirc) comes into effect around 63% and slows down when cap is =<30% -ank (edit) found one post from goldeneye that goes into it a bit..(on eve-i) Linkage 1 ..and another Linkage 2 he has posts in other threads as well.. hope this helps.. -ank ---
Ankanos	Posted - 2004.12.26 02:10:00 - [80] Edited by: Ankanos on 26/12/2004 02:14:14 nice work dust puppy :) you should look for posts by goldeneye on the eve-i.com forums.. he also has done some nice work explaining the cap/charge rate issue.. with your knowledge & graphing skills (add labels please ;p ),you two should get together and make a post that would be the final & definitive guide once and for all, for all of us who have scratched a hole in our heads trying to figure this out.. i think overall, the popular vote was that the capacitor on eve ships is modeled almost exactly the same as a real life capacitor. -and that the max recharge rate (iirc) comes into effect around 63% and slows down when cap is =<30% -ank (edit) found one post from goldeneye that goes into it a bit..(on eve-i) Linkage 1 ..and another Linkage 2 he has posts in other threads as well.. hope this helps.. -ank ---
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.26 17:20:00 - [81] Originally by: Chris Henry CCP should have info like this on the site in the first place... If we can fly multi-million ISK ships you would have thought us as the RL pilots should know about things like this!! My thoughts exactly. There are a number of things about the game we shouldn't be allowed to know behaviour of the capacitor, shield and guns should definitly be information that should be given to us. Originally by: kebab v2 is it safe to assume that perhaps the same basic formula is used to calculate sheild rechage rates? I think it's pretty safe to assume that. I do not know for sure but I would be surprised if the shield and the capacitor behaved differently. Originally by: Ankanos nice work dust puppy :) you should look for posts by goldeneye on the eve-i.com forums.. he also has done some nice work explaining the cap/charge rate issue.. with your knowledge & graphing skills (add labels please ;p ),you two should get together and make a post that would be the final & definitive guide once and for all, for all of us who have scratched a hole in our heads trying to figure this out.. i think overall, the popular vote was that the capacitor on eve ships is modeled almost exactly the same as a real life capacitor. -and that the max recharge rate (iirc) comes into effect around 63% and slows down when cap is =<30% Yeah I've read some of Goldeneye's posts and he seems to know what he's talking about and not just about capacitor about lots of other stuff to. The only thing that does not make sense from him is that he assumes that when you increase capacitor the recharge rate stays the same. In order to do that the recharge time would be increased and I have not noticed this behaviour in cap batteries. He does however add some interesting points on how long the cap should last if you can't run all your stuff at once (see his first reply here) __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.26 17:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Chris Henry CCP should have info like this on the site in the first place... If we can fly multi-million ISK ships you would have thought us as the RL pilots should know about things like this!! My thoughts exactly. There are a number of things about the game we shouldn't be allowed to know behaviour of the capacitor, shield and guns should definitly be information that should be given to us. Originally by: kebab v2 is it safe to assume that perhaps the same basic formula is used to calculate sheild rechage rates? I think it's pretty safe to assume that. I do not know for sure but I would be surprised if the shield and the capacitor behaved differently. Originally by: Ankanos nice work dust puppy :) you should look for posts by goldeneye on the eve-i.com forums.. he also has done some nice work explaining the cap/charge rate issue.. with your knowledge & graphing skills (add labels please ;p ),you two should get together and make a post that would be the final & definitive guide once and for all, for all of us who have scratched a hole in our heads trying to figure this out.. i think overall, the popular vote was that the capacitor on eve ships is modeled almost exactly the same as a real life capacitor. -and that the max recharge rate (iirc) comes into effect around 63% and slows down when cap is =<30% Yeah I've read some of Goldeneye's posts and he seems to know what he's talking about and not just about capacitor about lots of other stuff to. The only thing that does not make sense from him is that he assumes that when you increase capacitor the recharge rate stays the same. In order to do that the recharge time would be increased and I have not noticed this behaviour in cap batteries. He does however add some interesting points on how long the cap should last if you can't run all your stuff at once (see his first reply here) __________ Capacitor research
Moominer	Posted - 2005.02.18 12:48:00 - [83] Edited by: Moominer on 18/02/2005 12:48:26 What is the function for the graph showing the recharge rate as a function of the state of the capacitor? Shown in this graph? I have been trying to derive this function from the original function of time, but my math is not really up to scratch, so any help is much appreciated.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.02.20 23:00:00 - [84] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 20/02/2005 23:01:00 Originally by: Moominer Edited by: Moominer on 18/02/2005 12:48:26 What is the function for the graph showing the recharge rate as a function of the state of the capacitor? Shown in this graph? I have been trying to derive this function from the original function of time, but my math is not really up to scratch, so any help is much appreciated. Well you can start by differentiating the formula for capacitor capacity to get. dc(t)/dt = tautanh(taut)/cosh(taut) Then you isolate the t out of the formula for capacitor capacity to get t = (1/tau)acosh(1/(1-C/C_0) Then all that is left is to stick in the t that we have isolated from the capacitor capacity formula and stick it in the formula for capacitor recharge rate and simplify. It's kind of pointless for me to show that though, come to think of it it's probably pointless to show you anything but the final solution Anyway I simplified it as much as I could and this is what I my result. dc(C) = tau(1-C/C_0)sqrt(2*C/C_0 - (C/C_0)^2) __________ Capacitor research
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.02.24 14:28:00 - [85] C = C0(1-1/cosh(tau*t)) Forgive my math, but what does C0 stand for? I am trying to create an excel spreadsheet so I can get optimal cap/shield recharge. ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.02.25 02:05:00 - [86] Originally by: FireFoxx80 C = C0(1-1/cosh(tau*t)) Forgive my math, but what does C0 stand for? I am trying to create an excel spreadsheet so I can get optimal cap/shield recharge. C0 is the maximum capcitor capacity. __________ Capacitor research
Grismar	Posted - 2005.05.02 06:03:00 - [87] Edited by: Grismar on 02/05/2005 06:04:28 The one thing that scares me about research into the game this deep is that CCP may decide to change the rules on you at any time, obliterating the usefulness of the research... Had similar things happen with changing starmaps, imp distribution, bounty changes and agent changes to my database. Don't get me wrong, not saying I disagree with any of the made changes, most improved balance or otherwise improved the game. Just saying that spending this much time and effort in investigating the game always keeps nagging at me as (unlike RL with science) none of the results will be permanently useful... Rats - Corp/Implants - Agents
Mindblank	Posted - 2005.05.02 10:42:00 - [88] Hey, I didn't know you could do stuff like this...better put your talets to good work within the corp :) (j/k) Actually, really impressive work m8. I'll read through it all when I get home from work.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.05.02 16:34:00 - [89] Originally by: Grismar Edited by: Grismar on 02/05/2005 06:04:28 The one thing that scares me about research into the game this deep is that CCP may decide to change the rules on you at any time, obliterating the usefulness of the research... Had similar things happen with changing starmaps, imp distribution, bounty changes and agent changes to my database. Don't get me wrong, not saying I disagree with any of the made changes, most improved balance or otherwise improved the game. Just saying that spending this much time and effort in investigating the game always keeps nagging at me as (unlike RL with science) none of the results will be permanently useful... Yeah you are right about that. I can remember one good example about that there was this guy (forgotten his name ) that did massive testing on large guns. They guy probably spent hours on chaos shooting at a can and posted his results on this forum. Few months later the devs changed the tracking and falloff formula a bit so all his results were outdated. To be honest this research wasn't really that deep. The hardest thing was to guess the formula but once it was there the rest was quite easy since that I had just taken a course in numerical analysis. Thank you Mindblank, on that note I was thinking about doing some number crunching on the new electronic warfare system __________ Capacitor research
Mindblank	Posted - 2005.05.02 19:54:00 - [90] Excellent! I can't wait for the results

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