| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Magnetic Wolf
   |
Posted - 2009.09.03 18:32:00 -
[1]
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m??? 
|
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
Seposita Astrum
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 18:51:00 -
[2]
 Originally by:
so what do you think this means?
Eve is dying!!!
Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
|
Arec Bardwin
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
It means the PLEX prices will change in the near future.
|
Samroski
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:09:00 -
[4]
You may find some clues here and here
|
Samroski
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Samroski on 03/09/2009 19:11:43
Edit: double post- apologies
|
Dynast
Eve Defence Force
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
It means more active accounts for CCP.
|
Hashimoto Hoshiko
Caldari
Hashimoto Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:34:00 -
[7]
It means I get more gametime per ISK! :)
|
Sun Clausewitz
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 19:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
It means I will not be buying any GTC's anytime soon.
$30 bucks is worth more than 600 mill iskies
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Saartje Sarel
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 20:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
It means I will not be buying any GTC's anytime soon.
$30 bucks is worth more than 600 mill iskies
Which means prices will rise again ..
|
Dzil
Caldari
Sausage Banking
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 20:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
Most of the Guru's said they'd go back down after the rush for fanfest. Your definition of guru may vary.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
lumikku
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 21:11:00 -
[11]
They probably have some sort of 'hard' bottom,
or ccp will implement a 'hard' bottom, since plex was introduced to lower the amount of RMT.
The lower the plex prices go, the more lucrative it becomes for RMT 'operators' to Get involved in
EVE. And again more pressure om ccp for a hard bottom??
|
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 21:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
It means more manu-alts come online. *looks at Clair*
It also means I have to work less to keep my two accounts alive.
Originally by: Karanth
Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 21:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
It is a simple matter of a lot of people buying the tulip onions... ehhh correction, PLEX... while the biggest purchaser of them got banned (the macro'ers).
It is also a simple matter of a lot of people noticing that the price of PLEX were rising and then jumped to get in on it, but then failed to anticipate that summer was in fact ending and PLEX buying was dropping off....
What will it mean?
The smart people will hold on to their low-value PLEX until Christmas where the price will most likely rise again.
Other people will whine on the forums.
Yet other again will whine deep in their soul, but keep it to themselves.
And the last group (which is the large majority) will not give a rats ass....
Other than that, basic Economy 101 will rule!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 21:30:00 -
[14]
I don't believe CCP will implement a price floor.
The QEN showed us that the market has a substantial inventory, so as supply continues to exceed demand, the price point should continue to fall until they equalize.
--
EVE Blog
EVE Twitter |
Cardiana
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 23:00:00 -
[15]
it means what it means
|
Rotnac
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.09.03 23:41:00 -
[16]
All I know is, I can pay for may accounts pretty damn easily now. I'm lovin it!
|
Iridescent Moon
Caldari
Iridescent Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 01:51:00 -
[17]
reserved
|
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 02:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
It means more manu-alts come online. *looks at Clair*
It also means I have to work less to keep my two accounts alive.
what you got against alts named manu?
|
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 02:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
Most of the Guru's said they'd go back down after the rush for fanfest. Your definition of guru may vary.
I never bought that to begin with, hmm note to self *start rumor about how vexors will pwn in the alliance tournament with the new rules and buy vexors to sell during tournament,* people that did are either gullible, or well I guess there is a sufficient portion of the eve playerbase that lives right near CCP HQ and doesn't need to pay for hotel or airfare.
what was it 5 plex for a fanfest ticket? well after paying for hotel + airfare I really don't think that like $80 for the fanfest ticket is going to kill me, and especially not going to make me spend 1.5bil isk (using the old 300mil, if not more from the previous plex prices)
or maybe I just underestimate people.
|
Steve Thomas
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 03:31:00 -
[20]
the whole plex for pass thing was just flat out bizaroland. what they thought they had that many people playing EVE online where they were going to hold the convention?
If It was being held in Europe or the US I could have seen it but honestly what the heck were they thinking?
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 06:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
the whole plex for pass thing was just flat out bizaroland. what they thought they had that many people playing EVE online where they were going to hold the convention?
If It was being held in Europe or the US I could have seen it but honestly what the heck were they thinking?
I'm glad the fanfest is being held in Africa for once.
|
Mr Costington
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 06:22:00 -
[22]
Price correction. 30d GTC used to be worth only 150 mil less than a year ago, and that was back when datacores (passive income to support an alt) were worth a lot more.
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 06:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Saartje Sarel
Which means prices will rise again ..
Sweet dream, but unless those macros come back in force or something radical will happen it's unlikely that they will reach again those peak values of approx 400 mil. I mean it's reasonable expect that price will hit as low as approx 225 and then bounce back up to around 250 with mild fluctuations somewhere around that in the light of QEN PLEX graph.
|
Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 07:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Steve Thomas
the whole plex for pass thing was just flat out bizaroland. what they thought they had that many people playing EVE online where they were going to hold the convention?
If It was being held in Europe or the US I could have seen it but honestly what the heck were they thinking?
I'm glad the fanfest is being held in Africa for once.
i was thinking almost the same. but its asia
|
DS S
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:37:00 -
[25]
prices dropped down to 277mil in jita yesterday, then went back i[ tp 295 mil
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DS S
prices dropped down to 277mil in jita yesterday, then went back i[ tp 295 mil
Small fluctuations are quite normal as it's fortunately quite rare even for market to just fall off cliff. Based on QEN data however we can expect considerable downward pressure on PLEX price medium to long term.
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2009.09.05 21:17:00 -
[27]
Breaking - Jita
PLEX Speculators drive market. New PLEX Bank IPO drove PLEX prices to new levels on rumors of T2 PLEX. But, later breaking news of Rat PLEX drove shockwaves through the market. BillyJoeNoob was quoted as saying, "This rat dropped a plex! I was like whooa Dude!" Political Parties from all corners scrambled to find new ways to tax cartoon investments. After Market crash, Senator UrTaxes'Rmine from Rens was quoted as saying, "Just another bailout, we can always print more" ... Details at 11 after Ren and Stempy in their new adventure, "Space Madness!"
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
|
Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 20:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cardiana
it means what it means
This fully explained the situation nicely. I agree with everything said.
|
Claudia Voltaire
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 21:50:00 -
[29]
Carn is quite correct, it's extremly unlikely the prices will reach the peeks they were being held at when the isk farmers were sapping them up. Double motives, but ccp knew exactly what they were doing when they rinsed the farmers, the blurb about we care about the players gamming expierence, they just cared more about their active accounts in truth. The balance had been tipped, it was quite clear from the forum responces and threads people actually were letting 2nd 3rd accounts slide. You call the toss, im sure ccp cared more about the thousands of accounts from their hardcore audience that would have headed west, coupled with lost account/multiple account creation, over 4-5k farmers they had to ditch.
While ccp couldn't control the celling, they can't control the bottoming effect either. Ofcourse i could be wrong, with the power to do as they wish, multiple accounts could be made more appealing, increasing demand, and im sure many will 'come back' for their annual 'is it any better yet' 3 month eve fix around content update time.
|
Viae
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 22:41:00 -
[30]
I had the crux of this figuired, kinda forgotten what I came out with, think it was something like this:
CCP cut down on RMT = less demand for GTC = each GTC generates less isk = more GTC to achieve same goal = more revenue for CCP
It's crude but it's not far off.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 23:01:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
Things going back to "NORMAL".
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Arresi
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 04:49:00 -
[32]
So it's now cheaper to buy game time by buying isk from an isk seller then buying PLEX lol...
That is if you risk getting your isk reversed by GM and/or credit card theft.
Actually the good, legit isk sellers have a guarantee where they will refund you if a GM reverse your transaction. And it seems GMs crackdown periodically (a set pattern) so you know when it's the safest to buy isk.
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 07:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Arresi
So it's now cheaper to buy game time by buying isk from an isk seller then buying PLEX lol...
That is if you risk getting your isk reversed by GM and/or credit card theft.
Actually the good, legit isk sellers have a guarantee where they will refund you if a GM reverse your transaction. And it seems GMs crackdown periodically (a set pattern) so you know when it's the safest to buy isk.
They will get ya eventually if you buy isk. Might not be during the few weeks you can reverse the transaction thru your credit card company anyway but they WILL get ya. And it will not be fun experience sitting in the minus for all the isk you might have bought over the years.
And there is no good, legit isk sellers. All they care for is getting your credit card details.
|
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 08:01:00 -
[34]
I just bought 30 PLEXes for 285m each 
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
|
DarthCaboose
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 08:14:00 -
[35]
I'm pretty sure that, based on basic economics, that the price is dropping because there's way more people willing to sell PLEX than buy them. With everybody jumping on the real-money to ISK gravy train, it shouldn't be a surprise that more competition for those few PLEX buyers = lower prices.
The phenomenon of PLEX rising at the start is very similar to every other new item introduction in EVE (new rig sizes from Apoc 1.5, anyone?) Unless CCP really manages to do well in attracting more people to play EVE, be it now or during Fanfest, the PLEX price will go down even further.
Aside from attracting fresh meat, the other way to see PLEX prices go up again is if CCP; in some way, shape or form, puts a new change in that allows newer players to make more ISK easier. I remember reading Eve's First Quarter Report for 2009 showing that the vast majority of players (80%+) do not have the ISK on hand to buy a PLEX. Sure this figure is kinda iffy, but if CCP enabled even a fraction of those players to make more ISK through gameplay changes, then demand for PLEX (and hence, PLEX prices) would go up! Additionally, if ISK becomes easier to make, then players buying PLEXs would charge more money for them (an upward shift to that supply curve)!
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 09:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: DarthCaboose
Aside from attracting fresh meat, the other way to see PLEX prices go up again is if CCP; in some way, shape or form, puts a new change in that allows newer players to make more ISK easier. I remember reading Eve's First Quarter Report for 2009 showing that the vast majority of players (80%+) do not have the ISK on hand to buy a PLEX. Sure this figure is kinda iffy, but if CCP enabled even a fraction of those players to make more ISK through gameplay changes, then demand for PLEX (and hence, PLEX prices) would go up! Additionally, if ISK becomes easier to make, then players buying PLEXs would charge more money for them (an upward shift to that supply curve)!
I would say that the amount of liquid isk at hand might not be good indication of ability to buy PLEX. Granted it's sort of best we have. I for example would be quite capable of buying PLEX should I so desire (and I sometimes do) however I'm almost always below 'threshhold' value in liquid isk terms. Also I suspect that many people who would be isk wise capable of buying PLEX will not do so as it's more effective for them to get real money and pay subscription thru that than spend X hours in game grinding isk for the same purpose. By the same logic most people with jobs from developed countries would be better off selling PLEX to fund their fun than grinding isk X hours for that, altho there is also kind of emotional barrier in there. Can't comment on people on average, but for me it tastes like 'cheating' so I am not willing to sell PLEX for isk even tho I would be capable of doing that. Paying for extra accounts with credit card was already small emotional barrier for me to cross and left slight nagging feeling in my head.
On the other hand making PLEX price to go up by increasing isk amount in game is certainly possibility, however I would argue that this would be just 'PLEX inflation' same way as gold goes 'up' in dollars if fed's are running their printing press as fast as they can. Then again it might not be as catastrophic in EVE as it might end up in RL, as in EVE many isk sinks are NPC supplied and have very rigid price corridors. Would just mean that everyone and his dog would have titan skillbooks in their head 'bcos it's just so damn cheap' should we ever get into runaway increase of liquid isk available.
In the end it's more emotionally fulfilling to buy that carrier skillbook or BPO with the isk you have made yourself ingame than with the swing of credit card for me. It's not 'just a game'. It's more like a hobby.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 12:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: DarthCaboose
Aside from attracting fresh meat, the other way to see PLEX prices go up again is if CCP; in some way, shape or form, puts a new change in that allows newer players to make more ISK easier.
This may bring up the ISK price of PLEX, but their VALUE will stay as it is...
Value in EVE is not determined by ISK price, but by the effort put into acquiring something. This is what determines the relative price of everything in the EVE universe....
If you make it easier to get ISK, you'll just increase average prices by about the same percentage... You'll not have created more demand for any in-game resources, and you'll not have increased the rate of other in-game resources either.
The only thing that'll happen is that the in-game resources will have their ISK conversion price raised...
Example: Very VERY simplified EVE universe
1 Tritanium and 1 ISK in game: Tritanium price is 1 ISK
1 Tritanium and 2 ISK in game: Tritanium price is 2 ISK
CCP intervention is (extremely) unlikely as they seem to understand this. Eventually PLEX will settle again at their 'natural' level (whatever that may be). It'll probably take a number of months though given the apparent glut of PLEX on the market and in players hangars....
If the majority of PLEX were in fact bought by farmers, then PLEX will probably have QUITE a price adjustment downwards. I wouldn't discount seeing PLEX as low as 150m within the next year, provided the farmers doesn't return....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 12:52:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Carniflex on 07/09/2009 12:52:14
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: DarthCaboose
Aside from attracting fresh meat, the other way to see PLEX prices go up again is if CCP; in some way, shape or form, puts a new change in that allows newer players to make more ISK easier.
This may bring up the ISK price of PLEX, but their VALUE will stay as it is...
Value in EVE is not determined by ISK price, but by the effort put into acquiring something. This is what determines the relative price of everything in the EVE universe....
It's true that the value as in amount of effort that it takes to make this items will not change, however it's still worth pointing out that most isk sinks in EVE are NPC driven and thus does not 'feel' inflation that in turn would mean that you would get certain NPC good/service for lesser amount of effort (Skillsbooks, T1 BPO's, NPC trade goods, Insurance, etc). So if PLEX price in isk is going up people will get more of those 'inflation free' services for the same 35 dollars they spend.
Ofc assuming that isk supply would be increased (causing PLEX price in isk go up) it would also take smaller amount of grinding hours to get whatever you want to get so ratio between grind/PLEX would indeed be roughly the same.
|
Xtreem
Gallente
Knockaround Guys Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 13:15:00 -
[39]
as said already, alot of the demand for plex died when the RMT accounts got banned.
good news for plex is, they are coming back (been noticing more new npc corp ravens starting to appear)
but that of course if bad for eve overall.
demand will rise again with the come back of the macros, then drop again once they are banned again.
and this will be a regular cycle, as I don't see the macro ravens giving up for at least a few ban cycles.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 14:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Carniflex
It's true that the value as in amount of effort that it takes to make this items will not change, however it's still worth pointing out that most isk sinks in EVE are NPC driven and thus does not 'feel' inflation that in turn would mean that you would get certain NPC good/service for lesser amount of effort (Skillsbooks, T1 BPO's, NPC trade goods, Insurance, etc). So if PLEX price in isk is going up people will get more of those 'inflation free' services for the same 35 dollars they spend.
True to some extent, but where does most players ISK go? They go to other players for minerals or other raw materials (usually in some built form) or otherwise limited items. The major ISK sinks are later in the chain, primarily I'd guess in POS and their modules/fuel, plus maybe high-end BPO's.
The minerals/materials and limited items will not have had any increase in amounts, and the ISK sinks has not gotten bigger, so logically the resource limited items just get more expensive. Too much money, things get more expensive.
As mineral prices are currently hitting the 'basket floor' set by insurance, I think that EVE actually has too few ISK and too many minerals. This might need some balancing, but the solution is probably to reduce minerals created, not buff ISK earnings.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Taram Caldar
GK inc.
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 22:40:00 -
[41]
they'll continue to drop in price till the supply/demand discrepancy equalizes. They've been overpriced for quite a long time now.
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.09.08 01:25:00 -
[42]
Would the price manipulation a few months back have something to do with it? I mean, Fanfest kept the prices around that point for a while, but then they started falling. I know they were ~300 mil each early this year...but still.
|
Arresi
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.09.08 02:07:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Arresi on 08/09/2009 02:07:37
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Arresi
So it's now cheaper to buy game time by buying isk from an isk seller then buying PLEX lol...
That is if you risk getting your isk reversed by GM and/or credit card theft.
Actually the good, legit isk sellers have a guarantee where they will refund you if a GM reverse your transaction. And it seems GMs crackdown periodically (a set pattern) so you know when it's the safest to buy isk.
They will get ya eventually if you buy isk. Might not be during the few weeks you can reverse the transaction thru your credit card company anyway but they WILL get ya. And it will not be fun experience sitting in the minus for all the isk you might have bought over the years.
And there is no good, legit isk sellers. All they care for is getting your credit card details.
Right just like how the RIAA is gonna eventually get you for that song you downloaded in 2001... In real life it doesn't work that way. What CCP is going to do is crackdown on random isk buyers/sellers to try to scare off the general player population; it's no different than RIAA. Hence that's why CCP does a crackdown every few weeks or so (don't quote me on that haha), so if you know when the last crackdown was, you have a lower chance of getting your transaction reversed.
And trust me there *are* good, legit isk sellers. Sure there are some companies whose staff can barely speak English and they have only been operating for about a month, but others include years of experience and have a great customer support (or so I hear); the latter tend to be a litt more expensive of course lol.
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.08 03:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arresi
Right just like how the RIAA is gonna eventually get you for that song you downloaded in 2001... In real life it doesn't work that way. What CCP is going to do is crackdown on random isk buyers/sellers to try to scare off the general player population; it's no different than RIAA. Hence that's why CCP does a crackdown every few weeks or so (don't quote me on that haha), so if you know when the last crackdown was, you have a lower chance of getting your transaction reversed.
And trust me there *are* good, legit isk sellers. Sure there are some companies whose staff can barely speak English and they have only been operating for about a month, but others include years of experience and have a great customer support (or so I hear); the latter tend to be a litt more expensive of course lol.
There is quite relevant difference between RL and EVE. In RL you can't log all transactions, in EVE you can. Now if you do it only once you might get away with it, if it's habit you will get caught eventually and when they take a good look at you they will find eventually previous cases also. Ofc until this has do be done purely by hand the effectivity of it will not be stellar, altho I imagine CCP would already have clever scripts running highlighting 'interesting' transactions for GM's to investigate. Should they get really clever script going one day they can actually get ya for that bought isk on 2004. If you decide to hope this will not happen then this can't be helped, altho I do have gut feeling we might see one day another of those posts in genereal section where someone is complaining how his 'friend' who is rather good at markets got dropped in negative 'out of blue'. So far in every case it has turned out ofc that those 'friends' have been isk buyers.
|
Arresi
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 01:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Arresi
Right just like how the RIAA is gonna eventually get you for that song you downloaded in 2001... In real life it doesn't work that way. What CCP is going to do is crackdown on random isk buyers/sellers to try to scare off the general player population; it's no different than RIAA. Hence that's why CCP does a crackdown every few weeks or so (don't quote me on that haha), so if you know when the last crackdown was, you have a lower chance of getting your transaction reversed.
And trust me there *are* good, legit isk sellers. Sure there are some companies whose staff can barely speak English and they have only been operating for about a month, but others include years of experience and have a great customer support (or so I hear); the latter tend to be a litt more expensive of course lol.
There is quite relevant difference between RL and EVE. In RL you can't log all transactions, in EVE you can. Now if you do it only once you might get away with it, if it's habit you will get caught eventually and when they take a good look at you they will find eventually previous cases also. Ofc until this has do be done purely by hand the effectivity of it will not be stellar, altho I imagine CCP would already have clever scripts running highlighting 'interesting' transactions for GM's to investigate. Should they get really clever script going one day they can actually get ya for that bought isk on 2004. If you decide to hope this will not happen then this can't be helped, altho I do have gut feeling we might see one day another of those posts in genereal section where someone is complaining how his 'friend' who is rather good at markets got dropped in negative 'out of blue'. So far in every case it has turned out ofc that those 'friends' have been isk buyers.
In a somewhat related topic, this discussion reminds me of the issue with prostitution. Selling is legal, sex is legal, but selling sex isn't legal! Anyway, dating for sex is also legal, but as soon as you actually hand over cold cash then it becomes illegal. So how does this have anything to do with EVE, you might wonder.
Well if a person is really generous and decides to give you 10 billion isk, is that legal? How about if she gives you 10 billion isk for your Playstation 3? What if she gives you 10 billion isk for sex??
|
TYCONDEROGA
Amarr
The Inf1dels
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 02:20:00 -
[46]
buy buybuy buy!!! JIM CRAMER MAD MONEY OMFG!!!
|
Neme Nishta
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 04:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Arresi
What if she gives you 10 billion isk for sex??
Then "she" is probably a "he".
|
proudalt
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 07:23:00 -
[48]
The Problem with PLEX is, it has no ingame value.
It needs no ingametime to be "mined" or ressources you have to buy ingame.
Its just a trade good, that cant be traded...
You cant reprocess it to get a mineral value or insure it and blow it up....
Its purely based on demand.
And most ppl dont want to grind 300m isk and than buy a plex for it.
they want a shiny battleship or 2 hacs.
If i could not afford to play the game i would never use my hard earned isk for plex.
better stop a month of playing until i have enough RL money to start playing again with my hardly earned 300mil....
Good thing is, if the plex goes below 250mio, im gonna buy 1 or 2 myself, cause thats a good price... |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 07:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Arresi
Well if a person is really generous and decides to give you 10 billion isk, is that legal? How about if she gives you 10 billion isk for your Playstation 3? What if she gives you 10 billion isk for sex??
If that generous person happens to be identified as RMT character then CCP will not trouble their head with legal dilemmas. They will drop you 10 bil in negative regardless of fairytales about friendly donations and if you have done it on several times or have already outstanding warning they will add on top of that short forced vacation from EVE to have time to think about it. Extending that vacation to be permanent if they get you sitting your paw in cookie yar and not caring about repeated warnings.
It's also worth remembering CCP does not ban characters. They ban people. So even if you do nothing illegal for 5 years, but CCP manages to identify you as someone with permanent ban on him from the past they will remove all your identified characters without blinking twice.
|
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente
Legion Infernal
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 11:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Arresi
Well if a person is really generous and decides to give you 10 billion isk, is that legal? How about if she gives you 10 billion isk for your Playstation 3? What if she gives you 10 billion isk for sex??
If that generous person happens to be identified as RMT character then CCP will not trouble their head with legal dilemmas. They will drop you 10 bil in negative regardless of fairytales about friendly donations and if you have done it on several times or have already outstanding warning they will add on top of that short forced vacation from EVE to have time to think about it. Extending that vacation to be permanent if they get you sitting your paw in cookie yar and not caring about repeated warnings.
It's also worth remembering CCP does not ban characters. They ban people. So even if you do nothing illegal for 5 years, but CCP manages to identify you as someone with permanent ban on him from the past they will remove all your identified characters without blinking twice.
Exactly, they don't need to find you, they find your supplier and then you pay the consecuences.
On CCP not banning characters but people, are you sure of that? Remember about Ricdic alts.
The illegal RMT isks has to always be cheaper than the legal PLEX for isk to be able to compete because it has the risk of being removed, I see nothing extraordinary there and if anybody thinks that it is the same buying isks that can be removed by a GM and buying isks that can't, the only thing I can say to them is that I hope facts and removal will help you understand the difference, since your intelect seems to fail seeing it.
EVE Knowledge
|
Useful Alt
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 12:17:00 -
[51]
Mommy,
I want X to be Y price so I can do XY with my new Y since I got X to sell.
sandbox anyone?
|
Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 12:23:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Arresi
Right just like how the RIAA is gonna eventually get you for that song you downloaded in 2001... In real life it doesn't work that way. What CCP is going to do is crackdown on random isk buyers/sellers to try to scare off the general player population; it's no different than RIAA. Hence that's why CCP does a crackdown every few weeks or so (don't quote me on that haha), so if you know when the last crackdown was, you have a lower chance of getting your transaction reversed.
Don't be naive, the public crackdown is just the end result, the real investigations go on for a looong time before that. I'd assume the people and scripts used for this will be working regular hours, not just few days when CCP needs a PR stunt, gathering and analyzing information. It makes more sense that way, no-one cares if you post "we banned 3 isk buyers and 1 seller today!" on the news page every day, they'll still be whining that there's 10000 more on the loose, but gathering information for 6 months and then banning 5000 at once is better PR.
It's also more efficient, if you just ban individuals every time you find one out, you'll have serious trouble affecting the RMT business on organization level. Better to take your time observing and establishing links between accounts, people and the business and hit them hard once you think you have enough information to seriously hurt their business.
Same goes for bots hacks etc which are often connected with the business, if you ban individual people and block/fix every bot and hack as soon as you find out, you'll just hasten the evolution. Typically there's a new, working version around in just days, maybe even hours, after previous version stops working. So, you find a bot, learn to identify it foolproof and automated, gather up enough users and then ban them at once. Again, better PR, and better deterrent; few anonymous people banned every day doesn't sound very scary, thousand people banned at once actually might make someone think twice.
But yep, go on buying isk after the public beheadings if it makes you feel safer 
PS. Only "good, legit isk seller" is CCP. The whole business model outside CCP is based on fraud, on that basis it's very naive to count on any guarantees, sweet-talking customer service or advertising. If CCP happens to ban a good part of a business and -isk a lot of their customers, you really think they're going to respect their guarantee and cough up tens of thousands of euros instead of just vanishing and starting out with a new name the next day? The differences in national laws and the lack of meaningful international legislation around the matter also pretty much guarantees your chances of getting your cash back through legal means are slim to none.
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.09.09 18:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
On CCP not banning characters but people, are you sure of that? Remember about Ricdic alts.
I am. Have seen it happen to one corp thief that used things that get you permabanned to do it. We managed to identify his new chars he created on new accounts after getting banned, he gloated a bit in convo and confirmed he is same guy. We petitioned and he got his new chars also permabanned.
On Ricdic thing - dunno. Guess we do not know all the details.
|
Arresi
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 04:35:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Arresi on 10/09/2009 04:35:54
EDIT: *sigh* lost my wall of text counter-argument. Oh well.
|
Chantilly Layce
Proper Villains
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 11:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Magnetic Wolf
so what do you think this means?
EVE Online crisis? Some manipulation? Where are the gurus who said they were gonna cost 700m a unit when the fanfest made them to get to 400m???
It means A) it's cheaper to game, and B) yet another example of don't believe everything you read from self-professed "gurus". PLEX in the 280M range is the only fact you need.
 |
steveid
Renovatio Industries
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 17:10:00 -
[56]
theoretically a plex should be worth the amount of money you can make on a char by doing passive money making activities. Otherwise they'd be used up via account expansion. I think 285 is about right.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |