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Faction ship overhaul: firetail and dramiel

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Van Disaster	Posted - 2009.09.09 01:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Liang Nuren Guys seriously why are you even bothering to complain about the firetail? Have you seen the new navy slicer and navy geddon?? :omgsexy: -Liang Bought my first slicer yesterday... I'd buy firetails & fleet pests in the hope that enough shouting will fix them ala Nag, but ... no. I'm worred about the fstabber now, I don't know how many more buffs we can handle.
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.09 01:48:00 - [62] Originally by: Cpt Branko We'll have to see exactly how fast the Firetail will be. They might just move the speed to be a inbuilt bonus - and give it gun damage after that. Not that I expect them to do a good job given what they've done to the poor fleet tempest They naturalized the speed bonus at frigate level 3. If you notice, however, the Navy Slicer is about as fast, and about as agile, and all around a better ship. There is no point in flying a firetail with the Slicer around. I am rather strongly thinking about trading my mission hub from RSS-with-**ty-firetails-and-tempests to something-Amarr-so-I-can-pwn-too. Also, Amarr LP is worth alot more than Minnie LP so it'd be double win. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sputnik Tsygan	Posted - 2009.09.09 17:51:00 - [63] Ok Hiranda Yoshida, that's the closest thing to a decent counter-argument I've seen so far. Some nitpicks there but you definitely deserve a reply. Time to dissect it and show why I think you're mistaken. Quote: And what attributes exactly do you look for in an interceptor if not those? 1) A reduction in capacitor use for propulsion jamming systems and bonus to sig radius is what defines interceptor, but yes those are also nice qualities to have. The firetail isn't an interceptor though. 2) Remember these are the very qualities that CCP are nerfing. You're going to be flying a slower, fatter target that'll get tackled and popped with greater ease. Quote: So I missed a single ship. Think of it as the exception that proves the rule. Yes you did. And remember, slicer and hookbill are also vastly better, the comet is just a bit better. Quote: Yes when I have to engage in cap warfare against and need the damage regardless of cap. Minnie ships also have superior slot layouts compared to Amarr. Tracking bonus allows an AC Rifter to get under FRIGATE guns and still deal damage! How is that not useful? 1) Utter nonsense! Amarr slot layouts are perfect for what amarr do. And although this is a matter of pure opinion I think they are superior to minmatar across the board in some classes (e.g. BC and BS). 2) Remember this thread is about the firetail, not all minmatar ships/amarr ships! 3) If your opponent has any skills and half a brain this is just not true at all of the rifter in many situations. An AC rifter could get under frigate rails but not blasters, arty (obviously) but not autocannons. Possibly with the higher caliburs when using MWD, But what are your chances of your opponent not having scram or web fitted? There's a section of this forum reserved for fiction, I suggest you take that argument there. 4) And, what ship do you think could outrun frigate tracking at close range while still landing hits? You guessed it, the current firetail can! Quote: a) We are talking frigate class, there is no "great armor" tank. Punisher can field a good buffer but is slow as a slug when it does. b) The Comet is the only frigate I don't see on a daily basis due to it being utter crap compared to the Tristan. Extra drones will give it purpose and function. c) From what I am hearing it cant actually use its tanking slot due to fitting constraints and lights/rockets are notoriously bad against other Frigates. a) Ok so use the slicers ample low slots for whatever you wish. You can fit 3 damage mods and still nano. It's a highly focused ship that uses lasers, just like an amarr ship should be. b) Did I say "don't improve the comet" at any stage? Boost the comet! It looks really nice, just please don't kill the firetail. c) You're talking about the firetail there right? Seems so, I'll guess you're agreeing with me that the extra launcher slot is a waste of time. It is. Quote: Considering that the Rifter is regarded as the best damn frigate overall I would say that comparing them is a big credit to the new Firetail. We are talking NAVY ships. What on earth would a Navy want with a combat ship that can no no damage and is best at running? 1) Yet again I draw your attention to the fact that firetail is only marginally better than rifter in the areas CCP have decided to boost it in, and worse in many others. All for 250X the price. 2) Shouldn't navy ships represent their faction? CCP are making it slower and with less turret slots. Not very matari is it?
Sputnik Tsygan	Posted - 2009.09.09 18:56:00 - [64] Edited by: Sputnik Tsygan on 09/09/2009 18:57:22 Quote: Firetail is getting what is probably the biggest boost of all the frigs, even bigger than the Slicer .. damage and a 4th midslot! If you have ever dabbled in Frig vs. Frig or Frig vs. Cruiser then you would drool over that slot. Second web/point, TD, ECM .. it will be absolutely godly in its intended area, which coincidently is Factional Warfare (Navy remember?) 1) Yes I have fought frigate v frigate and frigate v cruiser. 2) By all means give it an extra mid slot, just don't nerf it into oblivion. 3) If it's a good ship it would be used outside of faction warfare. Quote: Join FW and learn how to fight in the Frigate class against opponents that are skilled at it and you'll find that damage/tracking/free midslot will kill more ships than any other possible combination of bonuses/tweaks. I you can't be bothered then think about the Stiletto and what makes it supreme in its role and you'll come to same conclusion. 1) How very patronising of you, charming. 2) Yes damage, tracking and free mid are good. But the fact remains they are nerfing the firetails best qualities. 3) Since you like talking about other ships, jaguar has 2 mids more than the wolf and tracking bonus, but there's not as many jag pilots by far. There is a good reason for that. 4) Stilletto generally gets eaten by other interceptors from what I hear (I'm no expert I don't fly inty so that's just hearsay). Also, nerfing firetail's speed makes it a whole lot less "supreme in it's role". Quote: PS: And if you don't think that 50% extra hitpoints is worth it on a frig then YOU really have no clue. Hell people in FW were trimarking frigs/dessies before small rigs came around just to get that last little edge. 1) You hurt my feelings when you talk all nasty like that. But seriously, chill out man. I'm not going to let this debate descend into an exchange of insults. Now c'mere and give me a hug you big hunka burning love. 2) It's by comparison to rifter (I wish I'd never answered that one now) 3) Web, scram, pop. you're adding 50% to nothing without the speed and agility to stay out of trouble and choose your fights. Remember there are many pilots out there who are looking to instapop your little friggy and are fully able to do so. You're adding about 400HP, That's way less than a volley for anything bigger than a frigate. 4) The 50% extra buffer exists in old and new designs for every faction frigate so it's not an issue in this debate whatsoever. Oh right you're just using it as a petty point to make a personal attack on me, again, how very charming. 5) To be mercifully kind to those people who were fitting trimark on frigates: they had more money than sense. The fact that a fool does it doesn't make it a good argument. Okay, I think I'm almost done here for now. I'm off out for an italian meal. I have another post planned on how I think the firetail should be and I encourage you to do the same. Save our firetail, act before it's too late
Sputnik Tsygan	Posted - 2009.09.09 19:10:00 - [65] Originally by: Vanden Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan And as for the pirate faction ships, you're the second person to say they are getting overhauled. My reply is show me the money, supply me with a single piece of evidence that this is going to happen. They were the ones which most obviously needed attention and I haven't heard a thing about them. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=8#214 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Pirate ship boost > This newsitem has a hint Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback. I asked for the slightest hint, and I got the slightest hint. Thankyou Vanden! Let's all badger CCP about this (for all the good it will do).
jugshot	Posted - 2009.09.12 14:38:00 - [66] X i just bought this ship the other day.... the only thing that gives the fire tail an edge over the other faction frigs is its speed
Vanden The Happy Spacemen	Posted - 2009.09.12 15:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan Originally by: Vanden Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan And as for the pirate faction ships, you're the second person to say they are getting overhauled. My reply is show me the money, supply me with a single piece of evidence that this is going to happen. They were the ones which most obviously needed attention and I haven't heard a thing about them. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=8#214 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Pirate ship boost > This newsitem has a hint Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback. I asked for the slightest hint, and I got the slightest hint. Thankyou Vanden! Let's all badger CCP about this (for all the good it will do). Put your badgers away: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1177474
Sputnik Tsygan	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Vanden Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan Originally by: Vanden Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan And as for the pirate faction ships, you're the second person to say they are getting overhauled. My reply is show me the money, supply me with a single piece of evidence that this is going to happen. They were the ones which most obviously needed attention and I haven't heard a thing about them. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=8#214 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Pirate ship boost > This newsitem has a hint Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback. I asked for the slightest hint, and I got the slightest hint. Thankyou Vanden! Let's all badger CCP about this (for all the good it will do). Put your badgers away: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1177474 My god vanden i could hug you!!! The new pirate faction ships look superb...and they did fix the dramiel AND the cynabal. The badgers have been given orders to stand down.
Sputnik Tsygan	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:34:00 - [69] Been a little busy to post here of late but here is what I thing the firetail should be like: Slot layout: 3 high (3 turrets no launcher) 4 medium 3 low Base speed: 357m/s (same as before) Ship Bonuses (per level): +5% Maximum velocity +7.5 Small projectile turret tracking speed Everything else can stay the same This is a realistic layout and not at all overpowered. It keeps the firetail as it should be without losing it's essence and brings it up to scratch with the other overhauled faction frigates. Please CCP dont break it....boost it!
Drogon Minmatar New Eden Yacht Club	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:55:00 - [70] X Director, Divine Retribution
Draka Dark5 Minmatar One Two Many	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:55:00 - [71] XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
Lathlrilanq	Posted - 2009.11.02 18:30:00 - [72] x xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx (and so on and so forth)
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.02 18:51:00 - [73] THIS THREAD MAKES MY BROWSER CRY
Ramashek Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.11.02 23:09:00 - [74] X Keep the Firetail as is, or at the very least, don't take the speed boost. I brought it purely for the speed boost, taking it away leaves me with a ship that, well, I can use, but won't enjoy using. I have a fleet of faction tacklers, but the Firetail is my favorite because of the speed boost, without it, it's just a generic piece of fancy scrap metal like the rest. XXX again, I love the speed!! I do think some of the faction ships should be changed, like the Dramiel, but the Firetail is fine with its speed boost. Yes they can outrun pretty much anything, but at the end of the day, it's not like you're gonna get problems from fleets of Firetails ambushing people using nanotactics >.< although it would be something to see. :P

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