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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.06 12:26:00 -
[31]
You do know that CCP frown upon the useless "/signed" and "X' posts right? Content when posting if you please!
Sputnik; the faction ships are all being designed with the factions in mind.
The Navies obviously want combat ships so lots of damage first, everything else second, hence the new Firetail bonuses. The fact that it works as an alternative to interceptors currently is besides the point.
You see the same with the proposed Navy Scorpion, it loses the eWar and gains damage, it actually makes sense when you think about it.
As for the, it is Dramiel a pirate faction vessel, CCP hasn't gotten to them yet except for the Sansha which were used as a test for Marauder weapon layouts .. patience. Pirate ships will get their overhaul in time.
Please keep in mind that the changes to Navy ships that are on the table ARE NOT final. They will probably be tweaked quite a bit before December rolls around.
PS: The Minmatar Damage/Tracking bonus combo is probably the most powerful of all available. Especially now that AB frigs are everywhere, Amarr/Gallente would kill for that combo 
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Shady Salesman
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Posted - 2009.09.06 12:50:00 -
[32]
I love my firetail, it's a thing of beauty!
Nerfing minmatar seems to be fotm at CCP... Kinda makes me regret I fly minmatar when all the other ships are superior in almost every way... Yay, speed...
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:03:00 -
[33]
The change is for the better. That AB MSE thing wouldn't beat any competent pilots.
You may not realize it, but the change is great.
You guys have no idea what you're talking about. :/ If nothing else, petition for the speed so you can use it as a pretty tackling ship, that setup would get stomped by good pilots.
_________________________
HELLO! I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.06 19:34:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Kahega Amielden
What? Is the poster from CCP or something?
He's admin from battleclinic and that's good enough for me.
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.06 20:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
You do know that CCP frown upon the useless "/signed" and "X' posts right? Content when posting if you please!
Sputnik; the faction ships are all being designed with the factions in mind.
The Navies obviously want combat ships so lots of damage first, everything else second, hence the new Firetail bonuses. The fact that it works as an alternative to interceptors currently is besides the point.
You see the same with the proposed Navy Scorpion, it loses the eWar and gains damage, it actually makes sense when you think about it.
As for the, it is Dramiel a pirate faction vessel, CCP hasn't gotten to them yet except for the Sansha which were used as a test for Marauder weapon layouts .. patience. Pirate ships will get their overhaul in time.
Please keep in mind that the changes to Navy ships that are on the table ARE NOT final. They will probably be tweaked quite a bit before December rolls around.
PS: The Minmatar Damage/Tracking bonus combo is probably the most powerful of all available. Especially now that AB frigs are everywhere, Amarr/Gallente would kill for that combo
1) I was not aware the this kind of thread was frowned upon. Seems absurd that a company which relys on our monthly payments wouldn't want to know what our opinions are. I feel passionatley about this and will not stop.
2) Not so much an interceptor in my mind, more a speed, signature and buffer tank.
3) They're going to overhaul pirate faction ships?!  Thank the gods! Can I see some information at least hinting towards this please.
4) Good to know they're not final, there's some hope left. IMO that makes this thread all the more important since there's still a chance to change this.
5) Gallente comet  DOES GET THE TRACKING BONUS. Please make sure you have a clue what you're saying before you say it.
6) Do you fly minmatar or use projectiles? All the tracking bonus does is stop them from being a clunky and awkward weapon type to use. And since you either didn't read or disregarded the information above i will summarise:
a)amarr gets great armour tank and uses (superior) lasers.
b)gallente is almost exactly the same but gets a 30m/s drone bay EXTRA
c)Caldari has great shield tank and 3 weapon slots to which the bonus applies.
And what do we matari pilots get? We get nerfed!
We cannot allow ourselves to be given the short end of the stick in this matter. We must act now to secure a minmatar faction ship that's worth flying or we're going to get a peice of useless trash.
Please show your support!
Also, if there's a faction ship overhaul thread I cannot find it, could someone please post a link, thankyou in advance
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:12:00 -
[36]
The Comet doesn't get a launcher slot in trade for its 3 light drones ( what a trade, I'm sure there's gallente pilots gnashing their teeth ), but, yes, the Comet has a tracking + damage bonus same as the new failtail.
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.06 22:19:00 -
[37]
Sputnik, you are incompetent and whining for no apparent reason. Please use your "great pre-nerf" Firetail in PvP vs competent players and you'll realize how bad that setup is.
Minmatar is fine, we have issues but every race does.
You, on the other hand, have no clue about the game.
_________________________
HELLO! I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
Oovarvu
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Posted - 2009.09.06 22:48:00 -
[38]
Damn Straight Sput, x
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
Also, if there's a faction ship overhaul thread I cannot find it, could someone please post a link, thankyou in advance
You mean this one?
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Fredd Mosibfu
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:47:00 -
[40]
You have my support.. i love my dragracing firetail.. it is like it shuld be imho... leave the firetail like it is now.. it is in 1 word PERFECT and FUN!
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Suas
Sputnik, you are incompetent and whining for no apparent reason. Please use your "great pre-nerf" Firetail in PvP vs competent players and you'll realize how bad that setup is.
Minmatar is fine, we have issues but every race does.
You, on the other hand, have no clue about the game.
I ignored your first post because it was only vaugely on topic and contained virtually no information for me to reply to. But from your second post it seems that all the princess wanted was a little attention. Be careful what you ask for.
1) I already stated that this thread wasn't to discuss fitting, but since you failed to understand I will patiently explain.  When overloaded it hits about 2300m/s (and my acceleration control skill is only lvl3 ATM). Because this is MWD speed without MWD it means I'm doing this, at close range, without my signature being increased by 500%. This makes me near impossible to hit without at least two webs or some relatively heavy neuts. Now add to this a substantial buffer tank and you have a ship which can take on certain assault frigates without fear. Of course it can't take down every ship in eve but no ship can (or everyone would fly it) 
2) You're an '09 character from a hauler corp and battleclinic says that you've never ever made even a single kill
3) My profile, although not spectacular, shows 72 lifetime kills. Some of these are, albeit modest, in my firetail. This is infact infinitely better than you since you draw a big fat zero, so I honestly don't see your standpoint in calling me incompetent.
4) What do you mean "we have issues"? Don't you realise I can see your picture? Or could you be using your alt to troll? And I know you can't be a true crosstrainer since you haven't been around long enough for it.
So, the overwhelming evidence suggests that I have much more of a "clue" about the game than you my friend.
TBH I think you're just a troll and I'm dissapointed in myself that I stooped so low as to reply. Now if you'll excuse me I feel compelled to scrub away the filth.
Please keep it in topic, thanks.
Save our firetail, bring the pirate faction ships to life
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.07 22:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Suas
Minmatar is fine, we have issues but every race does.
You just lost all credibility. I fly all races ships. Minmatar Battleships are all 3rd or 4rth rate. Mainly because Arty sucks. The only one can be set up decent is a Phoon for extremely high SP players.
Yes every race could use a little balancing here and there but Minmatar Battleships are crap.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
1)Breaking a ship that I feel represents the matari fighting style more than any other
CCP have shown time and time again that they have nfi what minmatar are, what we want or how to help us.
makes me wonder some times.
X
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Just a crazy inventor
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Suas
Minmatar is fine, we have issues but every race does.
You just lost all credibility. I fly all races ships. Minmatar Battleships are all 3rd or 4rth rate. Mainly because Arty sucks. The only one can be set up decent is a Phoon for extremely high SP players.
Yes every race could use a little balancing here and there but Minmatar Battleships are crap.
Tempest is crap, Maelstorm is good if you put ISK in it(mainly faction XL booster for the CPU issues) for small gangs, phoon is good if you put a lot of SP in it. Yes crap, but to be honestly any BS is untill you put the skills to a high level, only diffence is that you need high missle SP instead of turret SP like the other mini BS. Yes pest is crap, the rest is preaty much in line, donŠt put up statments that all mini BS are crap(it only gives the trolls food and starts a endless forum war).
Looking at the rest, Rifter, Stabber, Rupture, Vaga, Cane are very good in her class and offer serious advantages other ships donŠt have.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Dyphos
Pod Liberation Authority
Pod Liberation Authority.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:15:00 -
[45]
First things first, pirate faction ships will be getting overhauled so don't worry about the Dramiel.
Now.. The Firetail.
LISTEN TO YOURSELVES
CCP is making the Firetail good, yet everyone here wants to keep it in its current (terrible) form.
What the Firetail becomes is a Rifter (a very good ship) that happens to have a 4th mid, higher damage output, higher base speed, and higher ehp.
Seriously, what the **** are you people complaining about?
It is still the fastest and now that it can (if you want) fit 2 webs, it can guarantee it stays that way.
The ship is no longer terrible, be happy for once and stop crying when the game changes for the better
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FireT
Gallente
As Far As The eYe can see
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:44:00 -
[46]
/signed
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 03:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lilith Krell
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
Also, if there's a faction ship overhaul thread I cannot find it, could someone please post a link, thankyou in advance
You mean this one?
Thankyou very much Lilith!
There's a few other posts here I'd like to reply to but I spent all night chasing around looking for pvp targets so It'll need to wait till tomorrow.
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Drakan290
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Posted - 2009.09.08 05:08:00 -
[48]
I am using my 5 minutes of posting time to..
X
for this thread.
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Hybridblade
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:48:00 -
[49]
X
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.08 07:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 08/09/2009 07:59:54
Originally by: Dyphos
LISTEN TO YOURSELVES
CCP is making the Firetail good, yet everyone here wants to keep it in its current (terrible) form.
What the Firetail becomes is a Rifter (a very good ship) that happens to have a 4th mid, higher damage output, higher base speed, and higher ehp.
Seriously, what the **** are you people complaining about?
It is still the fastest and now that it can (if you want) fit 2 webs, it can guarantee it stays that way.
The ship is no longer terrible, be happy for once and stop crying when the game changes for the better
you seem to have missed the point.
minmatar are the speed race, we are supposed to go the fastest it is one of our racial strengths, this change directly lowers our speed and also closes the gap between our speed and the other races speed. We have been losing our racial strengths a hell of a lot over the past few years, our speed advantage while still there seems to have faded a hell of a lot.
To compare it would be like giving all af's a 10m drone bay and lowering the drone bay/bandwidth of the ishkur down to 15m and giving it an extra gun. It still does nice dps and has more drones than anyone else but I doubt many drone users would like it.
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Just a crazy inventor
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Von Kapiche
The Comet doesn't get a launcher slot in trade for its 3 light drones ( what a trade, I'm sure there's gallente pilots gnashing their teeth ), but, yes, the Comet has a tracking + damage bonus same as the new failtail.
Interesting you bring that up.
1) Remember the ship's bonuses do not apply to the launcher.
2) Frigates are designed to be a tight fit. I haven't calculated it but i reckon without fail-fitting the rest of the ship the only thing that's going to fit is a rocket launcher.
3) Even if you managed to get a missile launcher on which would you rather?
4) 3 light drones with three spare in the bay has more DPS and more tactical flexibility than a single missile launcher (with no bonus) by a long shot
OK....now onto answering the next 2 posts.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:59:00 -
[52]
Guys seriously why are you even bothering to complain about the firetail? Have you seen the new navy slicer and navy geddon?? :omgsexy:
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 18:30:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sputnik Tsygan on 08/09/2009 18:33:49
Originally by: Dyphos
First things first, pirate faction ships will be getting overhauled so don't worry about the Dramiel.
Now.. The Firetail.
LISTEN TO YOURSELVES
CCP is making the Firetail good, yet everyone here wants to keep it in its current (terrible) form.
What the Firetail becomes is a Rifter (a very good ship) that happens to have a 4th mid, higher damage output, higher base speed, and higher ehp.
Seriously, what the **** are you people complaining about?
It is still the fastest and now that it can (if you want) fit 2 webs, it can guarantee it stays that way.
The ship is no longer terrible, be happy for once and stop crying when the game changes for the better
I really have to thank you for this one Dyphos. It had never occured to me to compare the firetail to the humble rifter. You can't have taken a close look at the rifter or you would never have posted that as a counter-argument. 
1) The rifter has almost the same DPS and also has the same tracking bonus.
2) The rifter has a 660mm scan resolution while the new firetail only has 560mm.
3) It's not *all* that slower than the new firetail.
4) Same capacitor.
5) The rifter has a smaller signature radius!
6) If the firetail's price remains the same it'll be about 120X that of the rifter. So if anybody wants to pay 120X more for 50% more buffer(that's frigate size buffer), an extra mid and a tiny bit more DPS, not to mention a few things that are actually worse, then go crazy and waste your money.
And as for the pirate faction ships, you're the second person to say they are getting overhauled. My reply is show me the money, supply me with a single piece of evidence that this is going to happen. They were the ones which most obviously needed attention and I haven't heard a thing about them.
Rifter aside what really matters is that the new firetail is utterly crap compared with all of the other faction frigates, and it loses it's matari-ness.
I thought it'd be nice to add another constructive dimension to this thread. If you feel inspired to post the new firetail how you would like to see it then this is the place! I will be musing on this and posting my ideas soon enough.
Keep them coming folks, you all give me warm, squishy carebear feelings in my tummy.
Edit:Rather than making another post backing up what people are saying in favour of my argument I'll just say a big thanks
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 18:36:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Sputnik Tsygan on 08/09/2009 18:37:10
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Guys seriously why are you even bothering to complain about the firetail? Have you seen the new navy slicer and navy geddon?? :omgsexy:
-Liang
Yes the amarr ones are much better aren't they. Thankyou for backing up my argument by pointing this out.
EDIT: ok so I couldn't resist not doing it for that one
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 19:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
Yes the amarr ones are much better aren't they. Thankyou for backing up my argument by pointing this out.
EDIT: ok so I couldn't resist not doing it for that one
Eh, I've been a huge Minmatar proponent for years. I just think it's getting to be a waste of time now.
CCP: Hey guys, ask me anything. I'll answer.
Players: Why does Minmatar suck so bad?
CCP: Works for me. I fit $bad_fit and kick everone's ass.
CCP: Hey, what do the *players* think is wrong with Eve?
Players (united): MINMATAR AND PROJECTILES ****ING SUCK
CCP: Oh, Ewar drones... we'll get right on it.
CCP: Hey, we decided to boost Minmatar by removing a mid slot and boosting everyone else. This is awesome y/n
Players: WTF. I give the **** up. Christ. /trains Amarr
Really, it goes on and there's dozens of examples but... /shrug
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.08 19:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
1) I was not aware the this kind of thread was frowned upon. Seems absurd that a company which relys on our monthly payments wouldn't want to know what our opinions are. I feel passionatley about this and will not stop.
The thread is fine, but the one syllable replies are not. Believe it is in the posting rules, might only apply to the F&I section though.
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
2) Not so much an interceptor in my mind, more a speed, signature and buffer tank.
And what attributes exactly do you look for in an interceptor if not those?
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
5) Gallente comet DOES GET THE TRACKING BONUS. Please make sure you have a clue what you're saying before you say it.
So I missed a single ship. Think of it as the exception that proves the rule.
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
6) Do you fly minmatar or use projectiles? All the tracking bonus does is stop them from being a clunky and awkward weapon type to use. And since you either didn't read or disregarded the information above i will summarise:
Yes when I have to engage in cap warfare against and need the damage regardless of cap. Minnie ships also have superior slot layouts compared to Amarr.
Tracking bonus allows an AC Rifter to get under FRIGATE guns and still deal damage! How is that not useful?
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
a)amarr gets great armour tank and uses (superior) lasers ... <snip>
b)gallente is almost exactly the same but gets a 30m/s drone bay EXTRA
c)Caldari has great shield tank and 3 weapon slots to which the bonus applies.
a) We are talking frigate class, there is no "great armor" tank. Punisher can field a good buffer but is slow as a slug when it does.
b) The Comet is the only frigate I don't see on a daily basis due to it being utter crap compared to the Tristan. Extra drones will give it purpose and function.
c) From what I am hearing it cant actually use its tanking slot due to fitting constraints and lights/rockets are notoriously bad against other Frigates.
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
Rifter aside what really matters is that the new firetail is utterly crap compared with all of the other faction frigates, and it loses it's matari-ness.
Considering that the Rifter is regarded as the best damn frigate overall I would say that comparing them is a big credit to the new Firetail.
We are talking NAVY ships. What on earth would a Navy want with a combat ship that can no no damage and is best at running?
Firetail is getting what is probably the biggest boost of all the frigs, even bigger than the Slicer .. damage and a 4th midslot!
If you have ever dabbled in Frig vs. Frig or Frig vs. Cruiser then you would drool over that slot. Second web/point, TD, ECM .. it will be absolutely godly in its intended area, which coincidently is Factional Warfare (Navy remember?)
Join FW and learn how to fight in the Frigate class against opponents that are skilled at it and you'll find that damage/tracking/free midslot will kill more ships than any other possible combination of bonuses/tweaks.
I you can't be bothered then think about the Stiletto and what makes it supreme in its role and you'll come to same conclusion.
PS: And if you don't think that 50% extra hitpoints is worth it on a frig then YOU really have no clue. Hell people in FW were trimarking frigs/dessies before small rigs came around just to get that last little edge.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Please keep in mind that the changes to Navy ships that are on the table ARE NOT final. They will probably be tweaked quite a bit before December rolls around.
I doubt it. CCP have been rolling out some real half-assed stuff lately.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Vanden
The Happy Spacemen
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan
And as for the pirate faction ships, you're the second person to say they are getting overhauled. My reply is show me the money, supply me with a single piece of evidence that this is going to happen. They were the ones which most obviously needed attention and I haven't heard a thing about them.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=8#214
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Pirate ship boost
> This newsitem has a hint
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.
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Tiiron
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: To mare
they are switching the speed bonus for a dmg bonus.
Which makes it pretty much a rather expensive Vigil with it's 2 gun hardpoints.
People need to fit webs/tracking modules if they are really upset about fast ships.
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.09 00:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/09/2009 00:22:42
We'll have to see exactly how fast the Firetail will be. They might just move the speed to be a inbuilt bonus - and give it gun damage after that.
Not that I expect them to do a good job given what they've done to the poor fleet tempest
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Hell people in FW were trimarking frigs/dessies before small rigs came around just to get that last little edge.
Trimarks on frigates? Why?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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