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state issue raven (re)stolen

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Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.07 10:52:00 - [31] What's the point of using a middle man to factor out trust and scamming issues, if that middle man can't be trusted?
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.09.07 10:56:00 - [32] Edited by: rubico1337 on 07/09/2009 10:56:11 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah As long as the buyer was not harmed in this deal in any way, I think it's great to hear that f900 returned stolen contraband to its rightful owner. I'd definately trust f900 now, a businessman with ethics is a rare sight in the world of EVE. thats all good and well if say... f900 PAID for it then gave it back. but he took it and refused payment and violated trust. theres no love for sfs here either. he was a complete dumbass for giving it without reciveing payment at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite here. f900's entire service is based off of trust and impariality. once you start taking sides and betraying that trust people start gong elsewhere for fear of it happening to them Originally by: Lana Torrin I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.07 11:01:00 - [33] Originally by: Marko Riva What's the point of using a middle man to factor out trust and scamming issues, if that middle man can't be trusted? It seems like the kind of people who take up serious 3rd party businesses in EVE are people with a minimal level of moral and righteousness. Not possessing these would make your middle man run off with the money as soon as there were a couple of billions involved. Maybe it just isn't a good idea to sell ill-gotten gains through middle men? ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.07 11:09:00 - [34] Originally by: rubico1337 at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite here. f900's entire service is based off of trust and impariality. once you start taking sides and betraying that trust people start gong elsewhere for fear of it happening to them You are completely right that I would not want to try to sell stolen goods using f900. On the other hand, I do not plan to steal goods in the first place. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.09.07 11:13:00 - [35] Originally by: MarketAlt 134534 Could somone confirm if the Raven was this one auctioned here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1163744? If it was, why are some people talking about F9 doing something bad as a third party? He was the customer and therefore there was no third party? If this is the case then F9's neutrality remains. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.09.07 11:48:00 - [36] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: MarketAlt 134534 Could somone confirm if the Raven was this one auctioned here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1163744? If it was, why are some people talking about F9 doing something bad as a third party? He was the customer and therefore there was no third party? If this is the case then F9's neutrality remains. That trust is based on the fact he honors all contracts he makes. That evaluation is based on all the deals he makes. When he starts creating excuses and reasons why he can break some deals he makes, he stops being trustworthy or neutral. I'm sure he will continue being used as a trusted third party by some, but to me he is just a scammer with principles.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.07 12:04:00 - [37] a middle man is brought in to oversee a deal to ensure that both parties are not screwed over, not to be the one doing the screwing, f9 has blighted his own reputation. Which is a shame on him, because he was just getting the big deals, and has proven he can't be trusted with them. A third party is there to do a job, not judge.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.09.07 13:22:00 - [38] Originally by: Xtreem a middle man is brought in to oversee a deal to ensure that both parties are not screwed over, not to be the one doing the screwing, f9 has blighted his own reputation. Which is a shame on him, because he was just getting the big deals, and has proven he can't be trusted with them. A third party is there to do a job, not judge. Right on. If the story is true, f9 broke the agreement he made. Not to judge and take actions explicitly specified
Saurish	Posted - 2009.09.07 13:31:00 - [39] f900 done it in correct way. I dont see any problem.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.07 13:54:00 - [40] If however, this F900 intefered with a contract between 2 parties (being buyer and seller) after agreeing to be a trusted 3rd party, then he is as ppl say a glorified scammer, maybe he scammed a thief, but he still scammed. As I said before theft is a legitimate thing in this game, being a 3rd party provider in the pocket of Sir Molle is no more credible as beign a merc in the pocket of Sir Molle. Where do you draw the line...if this 3rd party was haunted by his morals and principles, he should have refused to handle the transaction. Dont care how many Molle fanbois give this guy big ups for his actions, he is a scammer. KIA - If I turn up on your thread, chances are you did somethign to bring me here.
Bonny Lee Caldari The Guardian Agency Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:04:00 - [41] Would still trust him. He did the right thing.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:05:00 - [42] Heh, stolen and re-stolen. That's pretty cool.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Necronomicon Possession is [...] the law in eve Originally by: Necronomicon Regardless of his morals, principles or any other guff, this 3rd party broke the rules. Not easy to completely contradict yourself within two sentences. Grats to F90 for this absolutely amazing stunt, it will be long remembered.
VonKaplanek III Destructive Influence	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:20:00 - [44] What does this have to do with his third party service. He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:35:00 - [45] Originally by: VonKaplanek III He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff. Uhh... Thats quite the contradiction you have there. Wow that hurt my head. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
VonKaplanek III Destructive Influence	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: VonKaplanek III He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff. Uhh... Thats quite the contradiction you have there. Wow that hurt my head. I am betting that you have many simple cancepts hurting your head.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.09.07 14:55:00 - [47] Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: VonKaplanek III He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff. Uhh... Thats quite the contradiction you have there. Wow that hurt my head. I am betting that you have many simple cancepts hurting your head. The raven was previously not his Stuff, yet he stole it. That, by definition, is "Someone elses stuff". it wasnt going to be his till the money crossed hands, instead he didn't pay (From what i gather from the threads) because SFS handed it over directly. This by definition reduces his trustworthyness when handling stuff not of his own. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:05:00 - [48] Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: VonKaplanek III He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff. Uhh... Thats quite the contradiction you have there. Wow that hurt my head. I am betting that you have many simple cancepts hurting your head. I'd imagine cancepts would hurt the head. Atleast if a cancept is anything like a rock flying through the air at a good rate of speed. But anyways, your statement was quite rediculous. Trust is trust. Whether it is someone else's deal or their own. The whole point of trust in a third-party is that the person isn't going to screw you over when his interests serve it. It doesn't really make a difference if he did it as a third-party or as himself. Afterall, the only difference between stealing when he is personally part of the deal or as a third-party is that one less person is involved. What is to stop him from stealing in a third-party deal and simply claim the items were already stolen?
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Heh, stolen and re-stolen. That's pretty cool. Honestly, when I saw you bidding, I was holding out for something along those lines, bit disappointed you couldn't handle your vodka to see it through.
Arec Bardwin	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Heh, stolen and re-stolen. That's pretty cool. More like handed over (by Molle), then handed over again (by sfs) There is no morale, integrity or e-honour in this story, only stupidity (or some hidden cloak and dagger stuff, cause seriously; how is it possible to be this stupid?) And the only 3rd party I would ever trust fully is Chribba.
Taedrin Gallente The Space Bar South The Compass	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:47:00 - [51] And apparently he's selling another one, here. Just how many of these things does he have?
Jamyl TashMurkon Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Taedrin And apparently he's selling another one, here. Just how many of these things does he have? 2 state ravens, 1 tribal pest. also lolkia is lol also F90 just did what had to be done.
VonKaplanek III Destructive Influence	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:07:00 - [53] Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 07/09/2009 16:15:47 Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: VonKaplanek III He was the buyer and the scammer. He has not proven himself untrustworthy when it comes to anyone elses stuff. Uhh... Thats quite the contradiction you have there. Wow that hurt my head. I am betting that you have many simple cancepts hurting your head. I'd imagine cancepts would hurt the head. Atleast if a cancept is anything like a rock flying through the air at a good rate of speed. But anyways, your statement was quite rediculous. Trust is trust. Whether it is someone else's deal or their own. The whole point of trust in a third-party is that the person isn't going to screw you over when his interests serve it. It doesn't really make a difference if he did it as a third-party or as himself. Afterall, the only difference between stealing when he is personally part of the deal or as a third-party is that one less person is involved. What is to stop him from stealing in a third-party deal and simply claim the items were already stolen?[/quote You think a cancept is rediculous, Would you then agree that a concept is ridiculous? Sucks when your as retarted as you think the person is that your making fun of. Silly Goon.
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:13:00 - [54] Originally by: LaVista Vista Two wrongs doesn't make a right. No they don't, but taking something from a thief and returning that property to the rightful owner is not wrong.
Grath Telkin Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Mire Stoude Originally by: LaVista Vista Two wrongs doesn't make a right. No they don't, but taking something from a thief and returning that property to the rightful owner is not wrong. Still makes him a liar and a thief. What happens when YOUR deal he's handling doesn't "Feel" right to him. Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 07/09/2009 16:53:42 f900's service is now flawed. When you offer a 3rd party service you are not there to make judgment calls and should remain unbiased! That's the crux of the matter.
Apoctasy The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:54:00 - [57] Originally by: Necronomicon Possession is 10/10ths of the law in eve, regardless of how SFS came about having it, it was his, Molle had no furhter claim on it. SFS then used a 3rd party service to transfer it to another pilot, and that 3rd party service stole the State Raven. Regardless of his morals, principles or any other guff, this 3rd party broke the rules. Hence why his reputation is now ruined.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:58:00 - [58] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 07/09/2009 16:58:16 "thievery" requires the stuff belonging to the victim, thats not the case, the stuff was stolen. So anything ok there...
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2009.09.07 17:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Apoctasy Originally by: Necronomicon Possession is 10/10ths of the law in eve, regardless of how SFS came about having it, it was his, Molle had no furhter claim on it. SFS then used a 3rd party service to transfer it to another pilot, and that 3rd party service stole the State Raven. Regardless of his morals, principles or any other guff, this 3rd party broke the rules. Hence why his reputation is now ruined. I saw some lottery that said secured by F900EX but would never have played it because I had never heard of him before that. So what's the story here? How did he ever become trustworthy before all of this?
Lord Windu Amarr Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.09.07 17:29:00 - [60] Main issue is the fact he has proven he is not neutral, so there is no neutral third party service from him. Also people saying that he did the right thing doing what he did cos thieves are bad blah blah, fine but what about if you are using his service and he disagrees with the fact you are a pirate, scammer, smack-talker, red to his alliance or his friends alliance or if he just dislikes you because you are Minmatar and he has just taken up role-playing? He has done it once and no doubt he will do it again, thus Chribba is the only person I would do business with and even then I don't completely trust him but I trust him a lot more than any other 3rd party service provider.

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