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Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:06:00 -
[31]
Kicking you guys out of 0.0 to lose motherships in low-sec to Tri of all people is something I will tell my grandchildren about.
I'll support it just because I feel so bad for you guys.
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Ziro
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.10 04:15:00 -
[32]
After a couple revisions, you've got a very solid post, Yaay. Think that's the first time I've ever admitted that. :P
I do hope that anyone who knowingly implements or participates in the implementation of a known exploit receives the ban hammer -- regardless of their history or affiliation.
 Originally by: Pnuka
Kicking you guys out of 0.0 to lose motherships in low-sec to Tri of all people is something I will tell my grandchildren about.
Actually, it was pretty funny. Tri failed hard. After a semi-success DDoS attempt, I switched computers and logged in at half armor after drifting outside the pos. I turned around, dropped a booster, overloaded the bottom rack and waited. I entered the shields at 6% structure and everything was burned up.
Afterwards, the FC emo raged on TS and proceeded to setup a fail pos bowl. Then came back another more successful bowl. Once out of shields, that was all she wrote. 15% armor and 6% structure later, I saw the pilot's pod for the first time in 2+ years. 
Sad to think you can get under someone's skin so much they'd risk getting banned for using known and clearly denounced exploits.
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soulkiller3
Minmatar
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 07:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ziro
After a couple revisions, you've got a very solid post, Yaay. Think that's the first time I've ever admitted that. :P
I do hope that anyone who knowingly implements or participates in the implementation of a known exploit receives the ban hammer -- regardless of their history or affiliation.
Originally by: Pnuka
Kicking you guys out of 0.0 to lose motherships in low-sec to Tri of all people is something I will tell my grandchildren about.
Actually, it was pretty funny. Tri failed hard. After a semi-success DDoS attempt, I switched computers and logged in at half armor after drifting outside the pos. I turned around, dropped a booster, overloaded the bottom rack and waited. I entered the shields at 6% structure and everything was burned up.
Afterwards, the FC emo raged on TS and proceeded to setup a fail pos bowl. Then came back another more successful bowl. Once out of shields, that was all she wrote. 15% armor and 6% structure later, I saw the pilot's pod for the first time in 2+ years.
Sad to think you can get under someone's skin so much they'd risk getting banned for using known and clearly denounced exploits.
TRI does not dos attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idh1yr1SJNA |
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:25:00 -
[34]
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Ethan Hunte
Ninjas With Frikkin StarShips
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:29:00 -
[35]
yaay was why insurgency failed.
He thinks talking fast and saying alot of words makes him a good FC.
I remember a time him doing his infamous warp in warp out, be aligned tactic, and whittled his own fleet down from 30 bs to like 3, and was still telling them warp in warp out with over 60 hostile BS on field.
you should be publicly executed in a station when ambulation goes live and your biomass displayed on the bar.
Ninja is recruiting. |
Suitonia
Gallente
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:27:00 -
[36]
According to the battlereport posted on SHC, they got the POS password from a local member who mailed it to a fleet member, then they proceeded to warp into the tower at the Nyx's position (with the password) so they entered the shield, and bumped the Nyx out.
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Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Mad Axe
Caldari
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 15:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Mad Axe on 10/09/2009 15:23:54
Originally by: Ziro
After a semi-success DDoS attempt, I switched computers and logged in.
Please read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddos#Distributed_attack
Now think hard. If you figure out why you just discredited yourself then maybe you made some bad decisions that day, are understandably upset and made another bad decision writing this.
But if you still think your sentence makes sense then maybe you should not fly anything larger then a Frigate.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:45:00 -
[38]
As much as this looks like a massive failthread, I sort of have to agree with the OP's broader point. POS bowling was declared an exploit years ago, but without game-mechanic changes, that needs to be enforced pretty savagely in order to actually be a meaningful rule. I'm in favour of rules enforcement.
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Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:23:00 -
[39]
Agreed with hersch... OP's rep is less than stellar at best... but the point is valid none the less.
Supported.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Ziro
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.10 18:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mad Axe
Edited by: Mad Axe on 10/09/2009 15:23:54
Originally by: Ziro
After a semi-success DDoS attempt, I switched computers and logged in.
Please read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddos#Distributed_attack
Now think hard. If you figure out why you just discredited yourself then maybe you made some bad decisions that day, are understandably upset and made another bad decision writing this.
But if you still think your sentence makes sense then maybe you should not fly anything larger then a Frigate.
You're welcome to focus on my belief that I was d/dos'd instead of the facts. It just illustrates what you don't want the attention to be placed on -- the manipulation of a well known and documented exploit.
As I said on shc, I accept that I could be wrong about the d/dos, though the connection issues and timing were suspicious.
I like how the spin you and your chronies have been using is that I made "bad decisions that day." Pretty hard to make a bad decision when you're sitting inside your personal POS at 0km from the tower, no? 
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.10 19:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Agreed with hersch... OP's rep is less than stellar at best... but the point is valid none the less.
Supported.
The Irony of this post is, I mentioned no alliance names, no specific incidents, I kept it on the broad view specifically for that reason. I want rule enforcement, because to date, there has been none. Tri outted themselves on that incident.
Anyone who know's Skrypt, know's he's done some very crazy things in that Mom and should have lost it quit a few times. I won't defend his loss because there are factors that were legit that played into it dieing that could have been avoided.
What I do not want to deal with is POS bowling in any form. Short of a POS pw change by the tower operators, the only bouncing mechanic that should be legal is manual normal speed bumping.
Anyone who know's me know's my number one rule is fair play. I don't mind ass hattery, I don't mind meta gaming, so long as it's within the boundaries of fair play. When people go outside those boundaries, I don't tolerate it.
The insurgency guy, Laugh.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.10 19:22:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Yaay on 10/09/2009 19:26:32
Edited by: Yaay on 10/09/2009 19:26:08
Originally by: Suitonia
According to the battlereport posted on SHC, they got the POS password from a local member who mailed it to a fleet member, then they proceeded to warp into the tower at the Nyx's position (with the password) so they entered the shield, and bumped the Nyx out.
Since someone else already posted the mechanic... one of the 3 forms of bumping currently possible is as follows.
Set a warp point in or behind the shields. Warp in at the appropriate range. During warp, change the POS PW. This creates an immediate ejection from the tower of the ships warping in at the normal high speed velocities you'd expect if the tower owner had changed the PW.
There is a mechanic the devs added to game to prevent this from happening. It is why you cannot change the POS PW once you are inside the shields. If you read the exploit rules, the most apparent part is that you cannot use unintended mechanics that prevent the victim from any sort of response to said action.
If Tri had warped into the tower, and manually bumped out the player, or had the tower pw changed, there would be no arguement for the bowling.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/hollowell84/Untitled-5.jpg
Tri's admission of the tactic, which they removed shortly after post. There is also a recording, 2 convos, and several other things that have been or will be provided to the GM's.
One Of Tri's own members was even stupid enough to come on our ts and admit part of the tactic used, and that there is a high likelihood of reimbursement. Apparently he thought he was being tight lipped, but had too much ego to realise what he was saying. The nice part was, he dished out names of who led the Op. :-D
That particular incident is being handled. What I want is clarity of rules handling of all incidents of POS bowling. CCP dug themselves this hole by allowing Goons to make this incident grow into the behemoth it did 2 years ago. CCP put up a strong stance against the tactic, but has since, not once enforced it.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.11 02:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Yaay
CCP dug themselves this hole by allowing Goons to make this incident grow into the behemoth it did 2 years ago.
I wish CCP would dig a hole to put your posts in.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.11 02:36:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Since someone else already posted the mechanic... one of the 3 forms of bumping currently possible is as follows. Set a warp point in or behind the shields. Warp in at the appropriate range. During warp, change the POS PW. This creates an immediate ejection from the tower of the ships warping in at the high speed velocities you'd expect if the tower owner had changed the PW. There is a mechanic the devs added to game to prevent this from happening. It is why you cannot change the POS PW once you are inside the shields. If you read the exploit rules, the most apparent part is that you cannot use unintended mechanics that prevent the victim from any sort of response to said action.
Your logic is seriously screwed up.
You say changing the POS PW is a part of the trick?
That assumes someone is in power and responsible for the PW.
By that train of thought... that is not an exploit.... that is abuse of power... and that is under the "metagaming" mechanic.
That means someone put someone in charge of the POS that shouldn't have.
Course (Assuming your even telling the truth to begin with) CCP may think differently but If I was a Game Admin <and thank God I'm not> I'd have to say the guy responsible is obviously the one controlling the POS.
Now I could completely be misreading... and that might be... but your words taken literally is a bit hard to misread.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.11 03:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Yaay on 11/09/2009 03:06:02
Edited by: Yaay on 11/09/2009 03:04:15
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Quote:
Since someone else already posted the mechanic... one of the 3 forms of bumping currently possible is as follows. Set a warp point in or behind the shields. Warp in at the appropriate range. During warp, change the POS PW. This creates an immediate ejection from the tower of the ships warping in at the high speed velocities you'd expect if the tower owner had changed the PW. There is a mechanic the devs added to game to prevent this from happening. It is why you cannot change the POS PW once you are inside the shields. If you read the exploit rules, the most apparent part is that you cannot use unintended mechanics that prevent the victim from any sort of response to said action.
Your logic is seriously screwed up.
You say changing the POS PW is a part of the trick?
That assumes someone is in power and responsible for the PW.
By that train of thought... that is not an exploit.... that is abuse of power... and that is under the "metagaming" mechanic.
That means someone put someone in charge of the POS that shouldn't have.
Course (Assuming your even telling the truth to begin with) CCP may think differently but If I was a Game Admin <and thank God I'm not> I'd have to say the guy responsible is obviously the one controlling the POS.
Now I could completely be misreading... and that might be... but your words taken literally is a bit hard to misread.
You understand the mechanic wrong.
The ship pilot enters the password. They enter warp. They change the ship password again. Creates a bowling effect. The reason you cannot change your ship password inside the tower is to prevent this effect.
Edited previous post for clarity.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.11 03:52:00 -
[46]
Alright... retracting my previous argument then.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Gjs312
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.11 04:25:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Gjs312 on 11/09/2009 04:26:39
Originally by: Yaay
You understand the mechanic wrong.
The ship pilot enters the password. They enter warp. They change the ship password again. Creates a bowling effect. The reason you cannot change your ship password inside the tower is to prevent this effect.
Edited previous post for clarity.
So basically the plan here is to use a known pos pw for an insane set of angles, luck, and guessing instead of just mwding at them and bumping them?
(E: Removed some of the pyramid)
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.11 06:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Yaay on 11/09/2009 06:27:03
Originally by: Gjs312
Edited by: Gjs312 on 11/09/2009 04:26:39
Originally by: Yaay
You understand the mechanic wrong.
The ship pilot enters the password. They enter warp. They change the ship password again. Creates a bowling effect. The reason you cannot change your ship password inside the tower is to prevent this effect.
Edited previous post for clarity.
So basically the plan here is to use a known pos pw for an insane set of angles, luck, and guessing instead of just mwding at them and bumping them?
(E: Removed some of the pyramid)
Would it be worse if you tossed 30 caps at the problem rather than 1, or a titan? If you do it, if it works, even if it doesn't but you tried it, there needs to be some banning. Look at the GM thread, #1 complaint is consistency of rules. This is such a prime example of that argument.
Bumping is only as good as the bumbers are, and sadly, logoffskis can prevent it. Bumping gives the pilots time to react. Bowling does not, hence why it was deemed so awful as so many goonies were blissfully ejected from shields and rightly doomsdays so many times in the past.
I chuckle at the fact that those same people play the double standard now.
Insane angles don't matter in the end. Tri proved that last night.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Gjs312
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.11 16:06:00 -
[49]
Well for what its worth I wasn't talking specifically about the incident this thread seems to be related to since I know almost nothing about it besides whats been posted, was more just trying to make the point that bowling with a known PW doesn't seem like an enormous issue, since you could just as easily use a different and equally effective bumping tactic.
The big issue with pos bowling was that you didn't need a password to get people out of what is supposed to be a safe area, as far as I'm concerned if you have come into possession of a PW then it ought to be fair game according to precedents like titans with PW dding inside of the shield.
Bowling without a known shield password would be a different issue though.
Just my opinions anyway, not representative of corp/alliance/whatever ofc.
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shuckstar
Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2009.09.11 17:01:00 -
[50]
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Ziro
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.11 18:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gjs312
The big issue with pos bowling was that you didn't need a password to get people out of what is supposed to be a safe area, as far as I'm concerned if you have come into possession of a PW then it ought to be fair game according to precedents like titans with PW dding inside of the shield.
Agreed.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.11 19:54:00 -
[52]
Karma's a *****.
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Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.11 20:12:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Qlanth on 11/09/2009 20:13:20
It's pretty fun until someone does it to you, huh Yaay?
Cry more.
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Naim Obeji
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.09.12 09:02:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Naim Obeji on 12/09/2009 09:02:47
Originally by: Agmar
Phreeze, I love a good Yaay loss as much as the next, so much so that I think we need to post our favorite Yaay losses.
However, this wasn't Yaay. Yaay can't afford motherships.
My favorite one is Yaay ratting in a carrier in IMK and getting said carrier ganked by Beagles with 5 minutes warning they were coming. Comedy gold.
As for the topic at hand, sure, I'll support it.
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Ziro
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.13 04:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Qlanth
Edited by: Qlanth on 11/09/2009 20:13:20
It's pretty fun until someone does it to you, huh Yaay?
Cry more.
Actually, it happened to me, and I don't recall doing it to anyone.
But, for what it's worth, I found it pretty funny!
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