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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.09 23:54:00 -
[31]
a few points, u want pvp the reason for the lack of targets is a) lack of pirate factions setting up and their anamolies spawning. If u provided 00 rats off in wormhole space maybe no bounties or other rewards make em a bit harder might tempt mpre peeps out there
CCP have changed wormholes getting from high sec to 00 is hard. A lot of peeps having regular contact are coming from high sec- high sec womrholes collapse and the whole layer of several hundred systems feeds back to high sec.
When the game first started the high sec systems - ws - often fed to low sec or 00 allowing lots of movement but in apoc 1.5 ccp seem to have turned something off meaning 00 is more likley to feed back upon itself and getting from c2 to c5 and then out to 00 means collapsing holes with no outcomes certain
Theres lots of poses out there banadoned ones if u have enough bs u can shoot - would be nice if a control tower is left abandoned for 6 weeks that it reverts to offline and unanchored allowing others to come along and claim em - but as it stands u have to blow it up. ANything short of a dread or 2-3 nightmares is gunna be a boring time.
Just lots of little balance hard to use things like that mean that most peeps arent really out there.
PVP yeah thats possible but remember a 2-10 man corp out there might only be active 2-3 hours in any 24 hour period so if u come along out of timezone you wont be getting far.
Lack of industrial end targets for wormhole goods ( only strat cruisers) is aother thing. No reason for targets u seek to be out there and such represent no pvp or industrial targets for u to hit.
Personally i go out there im so bored and so annoyed with ccp protecting 00 once again by making it harder for empire denziens to get out there that im just out in my domi setup to collapse wormholes and maybe find the odd target
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Dr Eurthymics
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Posted - 2009.09.10 00:19:00 -
[32]
I live in wh space with my corp. We have about 6 to 7 active people and it is a gold mine for a small corp. We are producing tech3 and mining abc ore. We do have neuts come in and sometimes we die and sometimes we kill. We drop tons of mins on your market and build your shiny tech3.
wh space is truely a carebears paradise...
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.09.10 00:47:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Dr Eurthymics
Edited by: Dr Eurthymics on 10/09/2009 00:31:24
Edited by: Dr Eurthymics on 10/09/2009 00:26:58
I live in wh space with my corp. We have about 6 to 7 active people and it is a gold mine for a small corp. We are producing tech3 and mining abc ore. We do have neuts come in and sometimes we die and sometimes we kill. We drop tons of mins on your market and build your shiny tech3.
wh space is truely a carebears paradise...
oh and btw op join a real wh corp and you will see the light...
and one more thing Ive been living in wh space for 2 months now, and probing is easy. It takes me about 5 minutes to scan a sig id now.
After so much time living here ( i pretty much aggre on your post, i live in w-space my self) you should be scanning several signatures withing 5 minutes.
No reason to have probe at 32AU (except firs system scan). Think the signatures are only in limited distance from planets. And theres is a thing of initial signal strenght. Thats advanced :>, i always fail to explain it to other poeple though.
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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.09.10 01:05:00 -
[34]
Please dont call it pvp, call it emo pvp if you have to but PVP implies consent, like in sport or at the casino. There is no such PVP in this game. Oh wait, does "lets pvps?" floating can count? No.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:05:00 -
[35]
the 4au from planets thing is still generally true but can be up to 32au off according to devs
Yup a sig every 2 minutes i fu know what youre doing is possible
It takes teamwork
The pvp is generally encounter based but thats what eve should be like anyway
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:12:00 -
[36]
id say increase the sig strength of all wormholes by 100%. make them able to be probed by a decent skill covert ops prober at 4 AU
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:20:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Michwich
Please dont call it pvp, call it emo pvp if you have to but PVP implies consent, like in sport or at the casino. There is no such PVP in this game. Oh wait, does "lets pvps?" floating can count? No.
thewre is a button on your overview that disables pvp unless you consent to it.
or maybe you should stay in highsec instead of whining
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.09.10 07:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 10/09/2009 07:22:16
Even pirate ships get lost sometimes.
As for increasing activity in WH space, I think this is an economic matter.
That for Tech III you have to go directly to cruisers and their subsystems, but if more avenues to Tech III opened up, like rigs, modules, ammo, drones, etc, then it becomes more profitable to exploit WH space. Currently the reports on T3 Cruisers are dismal: they are overpriced and can be popped still by a well skilled pilot in a PVP fitted BC. This does not make them bad ships, just not worth the money or the time to make them.
Even the ores are not as good as expected but I know little beyond that. Perhaps the expectations wree too high? I don't know.
But if there were more blue prints for T3 "goodies" from ammo to frozen sleeper corpses (to adorn the hangar), I think even the carebears will go in.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 09:41:00 -
[39]
A few more observations, there are a lot of systems now at least c4 and below that are settled by at least one pos. Range from 1 man alt corps who simply make use of a c5 system to head out and rat in any outlinks. To fully fledged capital ship production for smaller allainces ( not motherships and titans but carriers and dreads can be hidden away and brought out if a favourable low sec or 00 wormhole opens up) to tech 2 production, refuel bases for war targets hiding from mercs. To all sorts of other activities.
Abandoned poses should be recoverable perhaps after 6 weeks offline in wh space otherwise they will end up littering this space ( some pvp corps go out seeking to take out such targets i do hit such offline targets not the control towers but generally all other mods if they are there and i can take em down within an hour)
They make killmails after all
But yes in this next expansion ccp need to put t3 materials into more the general production chain weather it be modified tech 2 ammo and mods. Factional blueprints dropping and taking in t3 materials as well or other tech 3 ships ie bc and destroyers perhaps tech 3 haulers who knows or tech 3 minign barges
But if they want population out there it needs to be incorparated better
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Fig Jam
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Freyya
Disguised BECAUSE OF FALCON thread.
I was thinking more of a disguised "BRING BACK LOCAL" thread.
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dethleffs
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:36:00 -
[41]
I think the only thing lacking in Wspace is a system to properly order and cathegorise the insane amounts of bookmarks you end up with every day while making your way to kspace and back + all the sigs you scan down and be able to share them easily with your corpmates.
for the rest i think Wspace is fine, all the people who want to change something about it want to do that for their own good, pirates, carebears or 0.0 alliance players, all the same. |
ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:42:00 -
[42]
I think a corparate bookmark scheme might work, sig and anamoly sites would be with permissions stored in a speerate folder - ccp could even introduce a 3-7 day time period for site bm storage ( sigs-amols only last 3 days) so that could be the limit.
The other options corps have is to send a twice daily email within corp and put up the site id so others logging in can reference the id and scan it out themselves
On a seperate note collapsing wormholes if youre looking for rapid collapsing an active MWD-AB adds 50m kg of mass a return trip on a wormhole will add another 100m mass ( standard bs jump) giving u 50% faster collapsing power
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Sinistro
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:24:00 -
[43]
Not every one wants pvp all the time and I thought of the exploring aspect of unknown space that it could be some thing different and interesting but the truth is something els.
Found wormhole, went in with 2 characters, 1 in a cov ops scanner and one in a cerb. After scanning some sigs I went fighting the sleepers and it did not take long before I got attacked by some wannabe pirate corp. As they could not get me they were hanging on the exit w-hole jumping in and out till it closed. So I scanned another exit and popped out in some 0.3 system and that was it.
I really expected a bit more of exploring unknown space, which I understand as that you can be days there without finding or encountering any other player. This now is for me more a roaming place for highsec wannabe pirates who go in from save empire to look like some bad asses in w-space and can shoot others without standing loss.
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Sojanth
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:39:00 -
[44]
WHs are "working as intended".
Leave them alone ffs.
They are an enormous time sink for everyone in them.
Why should pirating be any different.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:39:00 -
[45]
not all aspects of eve apply to everyone. Good points made though u got jumped by some wannabe pirates been there done that. Ive switched from carebear to pirate to now something in between that is PVE at times and if pvp presents itself u take a dual fit and can engage in some fun.
Youre basing youre adventures on one wormhole, do say 50-100 holes a domi is a great ship for this can be fitted with cloaker , scan prober and whatever else u might need. U will have to pic youre targets a bit carefully but the haulers, barges and other smaller targets are doable. Or if youre in a corp same thing setup in wh space have a bs alt-scanner to close any unacceptible holes scan out next one that alt might take a little while to get out to high sec and for u to line up anther link but then u can bring him back in and explore a bi there are 2500 w space systems out there at the moment and just like 00 there are 70% empty systems and 20% moderate something to look at systems and 10% hello we got something.
Might try a larger outfit who are into mission-pvp-wormholes. or even PVE solo wise only c1 - c2 and maybe some c3 sites are really doable but hopefully ccp will seed some pirate factions or expand the wormhole rats by adding more, or more sytems and implement one of the other 3 ancient races ( talotoc etc)
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Anyhoo, I'm fine with w-space feeling all 'big and empty' and stuff. What I have an issue with is that I spend 99% of my time probing out every single cosmic signature in the system in order to verify that they're not wormholes. And if I disconnect or jump through a wormhole to see where it leads (not whether or not it goes to highsec/lowsec etc. but *what* system) I lose all of my 'discarded contacts' info and I have to start all over again.
Simply put you're doing it wrong.
Just because your character has the skills doesn't mean you as a player have them.
When living in worm hole I need one single scan with a combat probe to know the exact state of all the prior sigs in the w-hole and therefore anything new that needs scanning down.
When exploring a new worm hole I can normally identify the sigs of any other worm holes pretty quickly and scan them down. You on the other hand appear to expect to have everything handed to you on a silver platter.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dethleffs
I think the only thing lacking in Wspace is a system to properly order and cathegorise the insane amounts of bookmarks you end up with every day while making your way to kspace and back + all the sigs you scan down and be able to share them easily with your corpmates.
Originally by: ollobrains
I think a corparate bookmark scheme might work, sig and anamoly sites would be with permissions stored in a speerate folder - ccp could even introduce a 3-7 day time period for site bm storage ( sigs-amols only last 3 days) so that could be the limit.
Me too, here, go sign this, feature and ideas thread :)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172178
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.10 14:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Simply put you're doing it wrong.
Just because your character has the skills doesn't mean you as a player have them.
When living in worm hole I need one single scan with a combat probe to know the exact state of all the prior sigs in the w-hole and therefore anything new that needs scanning down.
When exploring a new worm hole I can normally identify the sigs of any other worm holes pretty quickly and scan them down. You on the other hand appear to expect to have everything handed to you on a silver platter.
If you get the right system you'll get links to other w-holes that are likely to be in regular use every day. I'm starting to miss one of our old systems as we'd encounter people in linking w-holes almost everyday..... though generally lose ships to them ;)
Simply put you're doing it wrong.
I'm not living in a wormhole system. I'm trying to move through as many w-space systems as quickly as possible in search of targets. With a single combat probe I can get the same results as you do, only I don't give a **** about those results. What I'm doing is completely different than what you're talking about, and therefore you have no relevance in this conversation since you can't seem to grasp simple concepts such as those put forth to you in the OP.
If you have any idea what I'm discussing you'll realize that I'm not going to sit around in a single system and wait for more wormhole connections.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.10 14:45:00 -
[49]
Are you guys searching from Empire or from deep 0.0? Cuz I do my WH searching from Tenal, and my experiences are quite different from what's described here.
I've been up to 2-WH's deep from a Tenal starting point without ever finding a WH to Empire space. Everything leads to another WH or occasionally another 0.0 system. Space is almost always empty of any players, although I have found a few POS's. Never been ganked or pirated.
To the OP: Working as intended.
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Skywalker
Minmatar
Darkness and Chaos
INFINITY.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 19:58:00 -
[50]
Bellum, we lived in WH for a few months now and i can't really follow your arguments.
WH space is best thing that happend to my game play (i'm a 2003 vet.), i used to be full time outlaw and the boring part with that was if you lived in low sec, moving around to new places to kill was a hassle. With WH's the world rotates around your WH base, and it's great, new places everyday.
WH, means no blobs, small scale PvP and still 0.0 like environments.
I love It !
My blog
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JZIM
Caldari
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 20:57:00 -
[51]
My wish list:
- Increase wormhole lifespan. 24 Hour 'stable' period after which the wormhole actually degrades instead of just 'vanishing'. Ie give the mass allowance of a wormhole a 12 hour half-life when it enters its decay cycle. Auto kill the decaying wh entrance after 5 days instead of 1.
- Give k-w space gateways a regional bias. When a k-w space entrance collapses make it so the new entrance has a 40% chance of spawning within 10 jumps, 30% within 20 jumps, 20% within 30 jumps, 10% anywhere in space.
- More w-w space gateways. Make the average number of exit gates in a w-space system 3-4, with at least a 2:1 bias towards w-w space gateways.
- Make gateways within w-space space significantly easier to probe. Maybe boost their signature by a factor of 10.
Figures are estimates, people with better number skills could probably balance them better. Idea would be to create a system within which an hours dedicated probing could get you:
- An entrance from k-w space.
- A network of 4-5 w space systems of various classes.
- 1-2 alternative exits from w-k space.
All gates would obviously be at varying stages of decay. The risk of being cut off for individuals would be reasonably low but would rapidly increase with ship size/numbers etc. Obviously chains would break regularly but an individual or small group could rely on their bookmarks for ~3 days.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.11 08:39:00 -
[52]
i think a new range of timed wormholes ( 4 hours up to 16 hours) so 4,8,12,16 ( would add more intractiveness) more randomness. And varying mass wormholes perhaps start it as low as 200m ( and allow for bs pass) up to 400m 500m 600m 800m mass.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.09.11 09:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
When exploring a new worm hole I can normally identify the sigs of any other worm holes pretty quickly and scan them down. You on the other hand appear to expect to have everything handed to you on a silver platter.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Simply put you're doing it wrong.
I'm not living in a wormhole system. I'm trying to move through as many w-space systems as quickly as possible in search of targets. With a single combat probe I can get the same results as you do, only I don't give a **** about those results. What I'm doing is completely different than what you're talking about, and therefore you have no relevance in this conversation since you can't seem to grasp simple concepts such as those put forth to you in the OP.
If you have any idea what I'm discussing you'll realize that I'm not going to sit around in a single system and wait for more wormhole connections.
Bolded just to help you again Bellum.
I referred to both situations, either living in one or exploring a new one and looking for wormholes. If you live in a C4 for example you'll be exploring many linked systems looking for access to real space, i.e. scanning new systems for wormholes which is the thing you are whining about being too hard.
Yet somehow when I'm looking for wormholes in a new system I don't need to scan every sig. This is because I can get a good idea of what every sig is just by considering it's strength and distance from my probe.
Hope this is now clear enough for you.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:14:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Skywalker
Bellum, we lived in WH for a few months now and i can't really follow your arguments.
WH space is best thing that happend to my game play (i'm a 2003 vet.), i used to be full time outlaw and the boring part with that was if you lived in low sec, moving around to new places to kill was a hassle. With WH's the world rotates around your WH base, and it's great, new places everyday.
WH, means no blobs, small scale PvP and still 0.0 like environments.
I love It !
Sky- (and everyone else)
I *get* that you can make a base and have the world rotate around it and have new connections come to you. I've already done that. I don't want to do that anymore. I'd rather roam through w-space instead.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:38:00 -
[55]
Time sink.
The constant need to probe wherever you want to go drove me insane.
My stay in there was pretty short. Not having local to show you if there was anyone hostiles.
Probe the system once more, find a bunch of parked ships in towers.
Move on to next system in hope of a active soul or two.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:58:00 -
[56]
Somthign I was thinking. SOme peole want worm holes to be a ad more exploitable after you find it. But you cannto make them stable or would destroy the whoel idea of unknown space
Also makign worm holes, all of them stay alive for MUCh longer woudl be bad, because a lot of tiems they are Not interesting and you are waiting them to GO AWAY!
So how?
Well, CCP could create a new anchorable module that you can anchor at a wormhole entrance. That would have to STAY there.. and extends the wormhole life by 2-3 fold. That allows you to gather friends and explore IT for 1 or 2 days. BUT with a huge drawback.. when someone finds that wormhole,... he knows very likely someone is working there.
Also is a cost since the module would be destroyed when the wormhole collapses. Also those wormhole stablizers should be easy to to probe, easier thanthe wormholes themselves.
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Ad Valorem
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Posted - 2009.09.11 12:07:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Max Khaos
The major problem with WH Exporation is the amount of sigs when your trying to move forward.
The only change I would like is a WH Filter ....... simple.
Thanks
This, tbh
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Vin'calis
Interstellar Federal Forces
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.09.11 12:36:00 -
[58]
Bellum, I can see what you're getting at, but W-space doesn't really cater to moving through multiple systems at speed. It's faster when you're only looking for the unknown signatures rather than pinpointing every single signature as an explorer might, but still very slow when compared to using stargates.
Tbh I like it that way, but then I'm primarily an explorer when in w-space and not looking purely for pvp. The current mechanics lend themselves to ambush-type tactics, where the aggressor is already in system and has scanned down the signatures so that he knows where to go when a target shows up. Not least because most people (who get into w-space) are at least slightly familiar with the directional scanner and are aware of the implications of a whole host of combat scanner probes suddenly appearing.
The way I see it, w-space is predominantly populated by 2 groups of people:
-> Residents. Groups who go in, set up a POS, and harvest the nearby signatures/adjacent systems. You'll only normally find these guys when they are shuttling resources to/from their POS or when they have lots of corpmates in system/one system over.
-> Roaming explorers. Single indivduals or small groups that will be based in k-space and wander a few systems into w-space in search of signatures to exploit. Unless they've actually found a signature then they'll be scanning in a covert cloaked ship and you'll never see them. Otherwise, you might catch one that's not paying enough attention to the D-scan.
I'd imagine a lot of the second group stage out of highsec (or at least the better targets will), and so your avoidance of highsec is probably a hindrance here. If you can find links to busier regions of highsec then there's often a fair chance of solo explorers wandering in, but otherwise w-space is quite empty as you say.
I'm of 2 minds about a filter specifically for wormhole signatures. It would make traversing through w-space easier and faster (for both hunters and their targets), but would take away some of the exploration part of the process (which is, after all, what w-space is all about). As you as you agree to a filter for wormholes everyone else cries for one for grav sites etc, and suddenly a filter has completely removed any uncertainty of what signature you have found.
In short: you *can* get kills in w-space, but it requires a fair bit of patience and a hell of a lot of scanning.
And Seishi: that anchorable module suggestion has some interesting possibilities. A lot of the appeal for me about w-space is the fact that it does change on a daily basis, but the ability for players to stabilise specific links (at cost) would add an extra dimension to it.
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