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Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 - [1] I am asking because of some Dev comments on the Shiva forum regarding Complexes. Instance are a good thing, the paying player is guaranteed to experience more of the action you have designed on their time table. Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now. I am just trying to understand the downside here if using instance missions or complexes. Thanks, Isolo
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 - [2] I am asking because of some Dev comments on the Shiva forum regarding Complexes. Instance are a good thing, the paying player is guaranteed to experience more of the action you have designed on their time table. Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now. I am just trying to understand the downside here if using instance missions or complexes. Thanks, Isolo
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 - [3] Because Eve is a PvP game. What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world? The Sloth.
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 - [4] Because Eve is a PvP game. What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world? The Sloth.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 - [5] Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 - [6] Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:43:00 - [7] Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:43:00 - [8] Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:44:00 - [9] Originally by: The Sloth Because Eve is a PvP game. What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world? The Sloth. I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work. I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together. Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together. Isolo
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:44:00 - [10] Originally by: The Sloth Because Eve is a PvP game. What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world? The Sloth. I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work. I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together. Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together. Isolo
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:48:00 - [11] Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:48:00 - [12] Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy. This is a very good point of view, this makes some sense. Especailly the way the economy is laid out as well. thanks, Isolo
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy. This is a very good point of view, this makes some sense. Especailly the way the economy is laid out as well. thanks, Isolo
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again. Spoke too soon.. "come back again". How typical. :)
Isolo	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again. Spoke too soon.. "come back again". How typical. :)
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:53:00 - [17] Now I feel bad. Having realised your first response was made before my response, I'm inclined to think my tone in my second post (uh, confusing myself now) was harsh. The point still stands, but I have to respect that you listened to another point of view, which can be rare around here. Apologies if I came across badly, I guess I'm just having a bad day.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.20 15:53:00 - [18] Now I feel bad. Having realised your first response was made before my response, I'm inclined to think my tone in my second post (uh, confusing myself now) was harsh. The point still stands, but I have to respect that you listened to another point of view, which can be rare around here. Apologies if I came across badly, I guess I'm just having a bad day.
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.20 16:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Isolo I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work. I agree PvP is not all that Eve is about. However player interaction is certainly an important part. The following quote will illustate CCP's dedication to player interaction. Quote: CCP is a privately held company founded in 1997. It is created on a strong vision of creating online games which focus on maximizing player interaction, and on utilizing the new, unexplored possibilities arising from having thousands of players interacting in the same game world. Taken from here. Originally by: Isolo I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together. Originally by: Isolo Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now. You answered your own question. Originally by: Isolo Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together. This isn't Counter Strike. Everyone playing this game shoud exist in the same galaxy/shard/instance. The Sloth.
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.20 16:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Isolo I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work. I agree PvP is not all that Eve is about. However player interaction is certainly an important part. The following quote will illustate CCP's dedication to player interaction. Quote: CCP is a privately held company founded in 1997. It is created on a strong vision of creating online games which focus on maximizing player interaction, and on utilizing the new, unexplored possibilities arising from having thousands of players interacting in the same game world. Taken from here. Originally by: Isolo I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together. Originally by: Isolo Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now. You answered your own question. Originally by: Isolo Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together. This isn't Counter Strike. Everyone playing this game shoud exist in the same galaxy/shard/instance. The Sloth.
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 16:10:00 - [21] ugh, I have to disagree. Instancing = Bad. really it goes against the whole point of the fundamental concept of a Persistent world MMO. there are a few rare cases that I might entertain where instancing might be a superior method. but I only say that for the principle of it, honestly I can't think of any in particular, that instancing would not break the "persistent world" foundation of the genre. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 16:10:00 - [22] ugh, I have to disagree. Instancing = Bad. really it goes against the whole point of the fundamental concept of a Persistent world MMO. there are a few rare cases that I might entertain where instancing might be a superior method. but I only say that for the principle of it, honestly I can't think of any in particular, that instancing would not break the "persistent world" foundation of the genre. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:12:00 - [23] umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:12:00 - [24] umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49 Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in. Anarchy Online uses (or did when I played) this where you get a single-player mission to a dungeon and you are the only person in there. When you enter, it creates a separate dungeon just for you. You could also get harder, multi-player missions and copy the mission key and give to your party. Eve is not this kind of game. Many people don't like instancing since you may as well be playing a single-player game. --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:21:00 - [26] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49 Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in. Anarchy Online uses (or did when I played) this where you get a single-player mission to a dungeon and you are the only person in there. When you enter, it creates a separate dungeon just for you. You could also get harder, multi-player missions and copy the mission key and give to your party. Eve is not this kind of game. Many people don't like instancing since you may as well be playing a single-player game. --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
RazorDreamz	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:25:00 - [27] Check out the World of Warcraft beta of you like instances and you will quickly see the problems. People continually farm instances as they are the easiest source of cash. Those that can get in a decent group make short work of any instance and just do it over and over. This causes massive inflation in the market which basically forces others to have to farm instances as well just to "keep up". I very much hope that this game does not implement instances. --------------------------------------- CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003: Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m
RazorDreamz	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:25:00 - [28] Check out the World of Warcraft beta of you like instances and you will quickly see the problems. People continually farm instances as they are the easiest source of cash. Those that can get in a decent group make short work of any instance and just do it over and over. This causes massive inflation in the market which basically forces others to have to farm instances as well just to "keep up". I very much hope that this game does not implement instances. --------------------------------------- CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003: Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:43:00 - [29] yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing. I mean if you have a scene shift, like you go into a cave, it loads the new environment and you do whatever, it would be easy to have each group or whatever that enters, have their own "instance"(thus the name) of that environment, and it all be separate. the good side of this (half explaining it for those who don't know of instancing) is that you wouldn't have to wait to kill whatever boss, because theres not someone ahead of you. that environment is copied just for you/your group. in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:43:00 - [30] yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing. I mean if you have a scene shift, like you go into a cave, it loads the new environment and you do whatever, it would be easy to have each group or whatever that enters, have their own "instance"(thus the name) of that environment, and it all be separate. the good side of this (half explaining it for those who don't know of instancing) is that you wouldn't have to wait to kill whatever boss, because theres not someone ahead of you. that environment is copied just for you/your group. in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:51:00 - [31] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:55:43 You could do instancing. They can make a button that says "make dungeon" and then you can pharm isk until your cat's litter box smells up the whole house. By then you will be able to get access to the "win teh gaem" button. Which leads to respect in real life. --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:51:00 - [32] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:55:43 You could do instancing. They can make a button that says "make dungeon" and then you can pharm isk until your cat's litter box smells up the whole house. By then you will be able to get access to the "win teh gaem" button. Which leads to respect in real life. --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- My guess is the REALLY good complexes will be distributed the same way as the REALLY good spawns - the lower the security rating, the better/more formidable the spawns. 0.0 complexes are likely to be so deep into alliance territory that they're pretty safe for that alliances members. The biggest gripes will come from carebears in 0.1-0.4 systems. However, the smart pirate will camp the route out of a complex to avoid the no-warp-away feature and then have a good chance of ganking the pilot as he carries his spoils to the nearest main system. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.20 18:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- My guess is the REALLY good complexes will be distributed the same way as the REALLY good spawns - the lower the security rating, the better/more formidable the spawns. 0.0 complexes are likely to be so deep into alliance territory that they're pretty safe for that alliances members. The biggest gripes will come from carebears in 0.1-0.4 systems. However, the smart pirate will camp the route out of a complex to avoid the no-warp-away feature and then have a good chance of ganking the pilot as he carries his spoils to the nearest main system. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Kel Shek in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at. stargates
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Kel Shek in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at. stargates
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:35:00 - [37] but a whole system being instanced? that wouldn't really work.... not to mention it wouldn't be worth the hassle and server load. having kill missions or whatever be located at relatively random middle of nowhere type spots, even if they are repeatable, in that spot, is close enough, IMO. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:35:00 - [38] but a whole system being instanced? that wouldn't really work.... not to mention it wouldn't be worth the hassle and server load. having kill missions or whatever be located at relatively random middle of nowhere type spots, even if they are repeatable, in that spot, is close enough, IMO. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49 Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in. Thank you! "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.10.20 20:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49 Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn umm.. did i miss soemthing? wtf is instancing? Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in. Thank you! "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."
Dirtball	Posted - 2004.10.20 21:19:00 - [41] Edited by: Dirtball on 20/10/2004 21:22:20 Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:55:43 You could do instancing. They can make a button that says "make dungeon" and then you can pharm isk until your cat's litter box smells up the whole house. By then you will be able to get access to the "win teh gaem" button. Which leads to respect in real life. Best post ever the lame thing about games where you level is people think you should respect them when they are a higher level than you. it's nice that eve has none of these things. I mean sure my corpmates and I spam the corp chat with our skill point counts from time to time, but I don't respect anyone more or less as a result, although I do admit I like having more skill points than the majority of people in my corp, but that's lame of me and it's nice that game mechanics keep me humble. Edit: note to self, check cat's litter box tonight.
Dirtball	Posted - 2004.10.20 21:19:00 - [42] Edited by: Dirtball on 20/10/2004 21:22:20 Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:55:43 You could do instancing. They can make a button that says "make dungeon" and then you can pharm isk until your cat's litter box smells up the whole house. By then you will be able to get access to the "win teh gaem" button. Which leads to respect in real life. Best post ever the lame thing about games where you level is people think you should respect them when they are a higher level than you. it's nice that eve has none of these things. I mean sure my corpmates and I spam the corp chat with our skill point counts from time to time, but I don't respect anyone more or less as a result, although I do admit I like having more skill points than the majority of people in my corp, but that's lame of me and it's nice that game mechanics keep me humble. Edit: note to self, check cat's litter box tonight.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.10.20 22:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- My guess is the REALLY good complexes will be distributed the same way as the REALLY good spawns - the lower the security rating, the better/more formidable the spawns. 0.0 complexes are likely to be so deep into alliance territory that they're pretty safe for that alliances members. The biggest gripes will come from carebears in 0.1-0.4 systems. However, the smart pirate will camp the route out of a complex to avoid the no-warp-away feature and then have a good chance of ganking the pilot as he carries his spoils to the nearest main system. With the new lvl 4 agent missions empire space carebears will have nothing to whine about for a while. After all, once shiva hits these missions will be better then hunting NPC's in 0.0 space. Complexes will not be in the nov 3 release anyway. I could see whining happening is complexes in 0.0 get to have l33t loot the lvl 4 agents dont get to dish out. But then we'll just whack em over the head with the risk v reward thing again. That is, IF i'm still around nov 3rd.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.10.20 22:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve. However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area. Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- My guess is the REALLY good complexes will be distributed the same way as the REALLY good spawns - the lower the security rating, the better/more formidable the spawns. 0.0 complexes are likely to be so deep into alliance territory that they're pretty safe for that alliances members. The biggest gripes will come from carebears in 0.1-0.4 systems. However, the smart pirate will camp the route out of a complex to avoid the no-warp-away feature and then have a good chance of ganking the pilot as he carries his spoils to the nearest main system. With the new lvl 4 agent missions empire space carebears will have nothing to whine about for a while. After all, once shiva hits these missions will be better then hunting NPC's in 0.0 space. Complexes will not be in the nov 3 release anyway. I could see whining happening is complexes in 0.0 get to have l33t loot the lvl 4 agents dont get to dish out. But then we'll just whack em over the head with the risk v reward thing again. That is, IF i'm still around nov 3rd.
Shevar	Posted - 2004.10.21 03:12:00 - [45] Actually mission bookmarks are a type of instance (well quite a few of em are, besides those that happen at specific spots such as npc bases). You get a bookmark to a randomly choosen spot ina solar system. You can have 10 people doing that exact same mission in the same solar system but they wouldn't be in the same grid... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Shevar	Posted - 2004.10.21 03:12:00 - [46] Actually mission bookmarks are a type of instance (well quite a few of em are, besides those that happen at specific spots such as npc bases). You get a bookmark to a randomly choosen spot ina solar system. You can have 10 people doing that exact same mission in the same solar system but they wouldn't be in the same grid... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
ShyLion	Posted - 2004.10.21 05:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Kel Shek yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing. Technically there is no problem at all. There is a HUGE amount of empty space in eve. Actually ONE solar sysem can house ALL separate daungeons for all 50000 players (if server node is powerfull enough, of course). To create daungeon they would need to pick random grid, and spawn all infrastructure, just like NPC rats spawned and then give a player bookmark. That spawned infrastructure could exist in database as long as player is there, regardless of mission being done. And if NPCs and loot containers are not respawned there, i can see absolutely no problem with economics. Also other players, willing to "participate" could perfom system scan and introduce themselves to daungeon adventurer :) If this is 0.5-1.0 system - nothing could stop CONCORD to help adventurer, if not...well, this is PvP game after all.
ShyLion	Posted - 2004.10.21 05:21:00 - [48] Originally by: Kel Shek yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing. Technically there is no problem at all. There is a HUGE amount of empty space in eve. Actually ONE solar sysem can house ALL separate daungeons for all 50000 players (if server node is powerfull enough, of course). To create daungeon they would need to pick random grid, and spawn all infrastructure, just like NPC rats spawned and then give a player bookmark. That spawned infrastructure could exist in database as long as player is there, regardless of mission being done. And if NPCs and loot containers are not respawned there, i can see absolutely no problem with economics. Also other players, willing to "participate" could perfom system scan and introduce themselves to daungeon adventurer :) If this is 0.5-1.0 system - nothing could stop CONCORD to help adventurer, if not...well, this is PvP game after all.
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.21 05:33:00 - [49] Quote: Also other players, willing to "participate" could perfom system scan and introduce themselves to daungeon adventurer :) If this is 0.5-1.0 system - nothing could stop CONCORD to help adventurer, if not...well, this is PvP game after all. I guess you could have Faux-Instancing like that. and almost do already, though its not really trying very hard. but I'm pretty sure by most standards, part of instancing is that it could NOT be intruded upon by uninvited parties. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Kel Shek	Posted - 2004.10.21 05:33:00 - [50] Quote: Also other players, willing to "participate" could perfom system scan and introduce themselves to daungeon adventurer :) If this is 0.5-1.0 system - nothing could stop CONCORD to help adventurer, if not...well, this is PvP game after all. I guess you could have Faux-Instancing like that. and almost do already, though its not really trying very hard. but I'm pretty sure by most standards, part of instancing is that it could NOT be intruded upon by uninvited parties. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Naomi Venture	Posted - 2004.10.21 06:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Kel Shek but I'm pretty sure by most standards, part of instancing is that it could NOT be intruded upon by uninvited parties. Yeah. The instancing in Anarchy Online or (eventually) World of Warcraft are for the player or party only. Like a seperate dimension. And I agree with those who think it's generally a bad idea. If your game is like (say) Everquest with camping problems, then you've got a lot of fundamental problems with your gameplay. Instancing is a band aid solution, and a very non-constructive one at that.
Naomi Venture	Posted - 2004.10.21 06:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Kel Shek but I'm pretty sure by most standards, part of instancing is that it could NOT be intruded upon by uninvited parties. Yeah. The instancing in Anarchy Online or (eventually) World of Warcraft are for the player or party only. Like a seperate dimension. And I agree with those who think it's generally a bad idea. If your game is like (say) Everquest with camping problems, then you've got a lot of fundamental problems with your gameplay. Instancing is a band aid solution, and a very non-constructive one at that.
xthril	Posted - 2004.10.21 09:13:00 - [53] Random mission bookmarks is close enough in my opinion. And with the new cool level 4 missions you get quite a challenge for the solo player :-D
xthril	Posted - 2004.10.21 09:13:00 - [54] Random mission bookmarks is close enough in my opinion. And with the new cool level 4 missions you get quite a challenge for the solo player :-D

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