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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[1]
I am asking because of some Dev comments on the Shiva forum regarding Complexes.
Instance are a good thing, the paying player is guaranteed to experience more of the action you have designed on their time table.
Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now.
I am just trying to understand the downside here if using instance missions or complexes.
Thanks,
Isolo
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[2]
I am asking because of some Dev comments on the Shiva forum regarding Complexes.
Instance are a good thing, the paying player is guaranteed to experience more of the action you have designed on their time table.
Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now.
I am just trying to understand the downside here if using instance missions or complexes.
Thanks,
Isolo
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 -
[3]
Because Eve is a PvP game.
What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world?
The Sloth.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 -
[4]
Because Eve is a PvP game.
What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world?
The Sloth.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 -
[5]
Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:37:00 -
[6]
Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:43:00 -
[7]
Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve.
However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area.
Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:43:00 -
[8]
Well, instanced complexes would remove the risk of camping yes. CCP just does not want to remove this threat. NPC spawns are a resouce to be competed for just like all other resources in Eve.
However, I wouldn't think you need fear continued camping of complexes. Firstly, there should be very many, secondly they feature a no-warp area.
Places someone cant run from are generally not oftenly camped since the camp would turn into a trap once a bgger force moves in.
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:44:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: The Sloth
Because Eve is a PvP game.
What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world?
The Sloth.
I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work.
I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together.
Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together.
Isolo
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: The Sloth
Because Eve is a PvP game.
What would be the point if we all had our own lonely little world?
The Sloth.
I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work.
I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together.
Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together.
Isolo
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:48:00 -
[11]
Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:48:00 -
[12]
Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
This is a very good point of view, this makes some sense. Especailly the way the economy is laid out as well.
thanks,
Isolo
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Eve is an interactive and immersive PvP game; instancing removes that. The whole balance of Eve's gameplay and economy is based upon the risk and unpredictability of inter-player encounters. There is no need to upset that balance by allowing it to be bypassed just to keep those who want to play in their own little bubble happy.
This is a very good point of view, this makes some sense. Especailly the way the economy is laid out as well.
thanks,
Isolo
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
Spoke too soon.. "come back again". How typical.
:)
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Isolo
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Isolo, you look to me like another person who can't get their head around the fact that PvP is more than just combat. When you can understand why things like risk and competition for resources drive this game, then come back and try again.
Spoke too soon.. "come back again". How typical.
:)
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:53:00 -
[17]
Now I feel bad. Having realised your first response was made before my response, I'm inclined to think my tone in my second post (uh, confusing myself now) was harsh. The point still stands, but I have to respect that you listened to another point of view, which can be rare around here.
Apologies if I came across badly, I guess I'm just having a bad day.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.20 15:53:00 -
[18]
Now I feel bad. Having realised your first response was made before my response, I'm inclined to think my tone in my second post (uh, confusing myself now) was harsh. The point still stands, but I have to respect that you listened to another point of view, which can be rare around here.
Apologies if I came across badly, I guess I'm just having a bad day.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.20 16:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Isolo
I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work.
I agree PvP is not all that Eve is about. However player interaction is certainly an important part. The following quote will illustate CCP's dedication to player interaction.
Quote:
CCP is a privately held company founded in 1997. It is created on a strong vision of creating online games which focus on maximizing player interaction, and on utilizing the new, unexplored possibilities arising from having thousands of players interacting in the same game world.
Taken from here.
Originally by: Isolo
I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together.
Originally by: Isolo
Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now.
You answered your own question.
Originally by: Isolo
Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together.
This isn't Counter Strike. Everyone playing this game shoud exist in the same galaxy/shard/instance.
The Sloth.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.20 16:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Isolo
I would like to think Eve as an MMO with a great PvP system, that may need a little work.
I agree PvP is not all that Eve is about. However player interaction is certainly an important part. The following quote will illustate CCP's dedication to player interaction.
Quote:
CCP is a privately held company founded in 1997. It is created on a strong vision of creating online games which focus on maximizing player interaction, and on utilizing the new, unexplored possibilities arising from having thousands of players interacting in the same game world.
Taken from here.
Originally by: Isolo
I fail to see how Instance complexes remove PvP from this game. With your above comments, we should just remove NPC Rats all together.
Originally by: Isolo
Without instances then you risk even more camping in this game, I can only assume similar to the way gates are camped at now.
You answered your own question.
Originally by: Isolo
Counter Strike is a PvP game. Nothing lonely about going into a dungeon with a group of friends and taking on some challenging NPC's and having an enjoyable time together.
This isn't Counter Strike. Everyone playing this game shoud exist in the same galaxy/shard/instance.
The Sloth.
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.10.20 16:10:00 -
[21]
ugh, I have to disagree. Instancing = Bad.
really it goes against the whole point of the fundamental concept of a Persistent world MMO.
there are a few rare cases that I might entertain where instancing might be a superior method. but I only say that for the principle of it, honestly I can't think of any in particular, that instancing would not break the "persistent world" foundation of the genre.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.10.20 16:10:00 -
[22]
ugh, I have to disagree. Instancing = Bad.
really it goes against the whole point of the fundamental concept of a Persistent world MMO.
there are a few rare cases that I might entertain where instancing might be a superior method. but I only say that for the principle of it, honestly I can't think of any in particular, that instancing would not break the "persistent world" foundation of the genre.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Turyleon Caddarn
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Posted - 2004.10.20 18:12:00 -
[23]
umm.. did i miss soemthing?
wtf is instancing?
"I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse." |
Turyleon Caddarn
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Posted - 2004.10.20 18:12:00 -
[24]
umm.. did i miss soemthing?
wtf is instancing?
"I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse." |
Kitten Hearder
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Posted - 2004.10.20 18:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49
Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn
umm.. did i miss soemthing?
wtf is instancing?
Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in.
Anarchy Online uses (or did when I played) this where you get a single-player mission to a dungeon and you are the only person in there. When you enter, it creates a separate dungeon just for you. You could also get harder, multi-player missions and copy the mission key and give to your party.
Eve is not this kind of game. Many people don't like instancing since you may as well be playing a single-player game. 
---------
Kitten Hearder
Evolution made my sig
Less Entertaining
than your's. |
Kitten Hearder
|
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 20/10/2004 18:23:49
Originally by: Turyleon Caddarn
umm.. did i miss soemthing?
wtf is instancing?
Think Diablo and Diablo 2. Where you create your own game and you let who you want in.
Anarchy Online uses (or did when I played) this where you get a single-player mission to a dungeon and you are the only person in there. When you enter, it creates a separate dungeon just for you. You could also get harder, multi-player missions and copy the mission key and give to your party.
Eve is not this kind of game. Many people don't like instancing since you may as well be playing a single-player game.
---------
Kitten Hearder
Evolution made my sig
Less Entertaining
than your's. |
RazorDreamz
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Posted - 2004.10.20 18:25:00 -
[27]
Check out the World of Warcraft beta of you like instances and you will quickly see the problems. People continually farm instances as they are the easiest source of cash. Those that can get in a decent group make short work of any instance and just do it over and over. This causes massive inflation in the market which basically forces others to have to farm instances as well just to "keep up". I very much hope that this game does not implement instances.
---------------------------------------
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m |
RazorDreamz
|
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:25:00 -
[28]
Check out the World of Warcraft beta of you like instances and you will quickly see the problems. People continually farm instances as they are the easiest source of cash. Those that can get in a decent group make short work of any instance and just do it over and over. This causes massive inflation in the market which basically forces others to have to farm instances as well just to "keep up". I very much hope that this game does not implement instances.
---------------------------------------
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m |
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:43:00 -
[29]
yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing.
I mean if you have a scene shift, like you go into a cave, it loads the new environment and you do whatever, it would be easy to have each group or whatever that enters, have their own "instance"(thus the name) of that environment, and it all be separate. the good side of this (half explaining it for those who don't know of instancing) is that you wouldn't have to wait to kill whatever boss, because theres not someone ahead of you. that environment is copied just for you/your group.
in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:43:00 -
[30]
yeah... I don't actually see HOW eve even COULD do instancing.
I mean if you have a scene shift, like you go into a cave, it loads the new environment and you do whatever, it would be easy to have each group or whatever that enters, have their own "instance"(thus the name) of that environment, and it all be separate. the good side of this (half explaining it for those who don't know of instancing) is that you wouldn't have to wait to kill whatever boss, because theres not someone ahead of you. that environment is copied just for you/your group.
in EVE... how would that work? theres no session changes like entering a crypt or cave or whatnot, to insert an instance-ing point at.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
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