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Locater Agent Can find people in Wormholes

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Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 03:44:00 - [1] This needs to be fixed. How can a locater agent possibly find a person in a wormhole?! Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.15 04:01:00 - [2] they are just that good
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2009.09.15 05:28:00 - [3] That is funny, but not sure what good it will do someone. Just how do you get to J123456 anyway? The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.09.15 05:59:00 - [4] Aye, I say leave it, maybe it's a very smart agent with good contacts and some Caldari Navy Customs Agent spotted him jumping into a wormhole? Hell, I donno, but as has been pointed out it's not like J23400923 will do anyone looking for him any good, except to tell them "Hey, this guys is in a wormhole, goodluck finding it sucker!"
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.09.15 06:35:00 - [5] Chat channels still work inside wormholes, therefore one has to expect that the flux network is operational and your ship can be tracked. If you don't want locator agents to find you in wormholes, be prepared for chat channels to stop working. No more alliance, corp, fleet, player-created channels for you! [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.09.15 06:46:00 - [6] Considering that communications is based on a router system from ship to ship, and communications with fleet, corp, etc, are not lost, agent locators appear to be some kind of "tracert" program. That's all it takes to find a unique system in the real world, they will likely still remember how to do this in 20000+ years.
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 08:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Adunh Slavy That is funny, but not sure what good it will do someone. Just how do you get to J123456 anyway? Actually we've used this to find out War targets have followed us into our WH. Thus we eliminated a spy from our corp. We've also had it used against us by people we have been ganking that live full time in a WH. The WH itself has no gate or tracking mechanism. If a system has multiple WH how would an agent know which you entered? This is just a flawed program. Not to mention if you enter one WH then jump through to another from the original WH, it still works. They need to fix it for 2 reasons (as my examples above indicate.) 1. If I'm cloaked in a WH where my POS is and someone is tracking me, they shouldn't know I'm there. 2. If I'm cloaked in a WH looking for my second gank on someone residing there, they also shouldn't know I'm there. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 08:11:00 - [8] So instead WH name you will get "he is nowhere in known system" . Yay, big change. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 08:52:00 - [9] "I'm unable to locate that person" is a major difference than "the scumsucker is in system J100009...." Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 08:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Raa Chura "I'm unable to locate that person" is a major difference than "the scumsucker is in system J100009...." Yea, saves me 7 minutes wait for result but thats about it. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist

Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 09:43:00 - [11] So for example: Yesterday I ganked you in your WH J100009 and podded you. You have 3 friends still in that WH right? So you use a locater agent and he says, scumsucker is in J100009. So you set a trap or you just log back off. or Locater agent says scumsucker is in J111544. Okay, i've moved and you can go back to business as usual. Now if that changed that, you do a locater agent request and you get the result, that individual is beyond my realm of knowledge or whatever. Now you have no idea what to do. You have no idea if I'm in your WH or not. See the point? Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 09:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Raa Chura So for example: Yesterday I ganked you in your WH J100009 and podded you. You have 3 friends still in that WH right? So you use a locater agent and he says, scumsucker is in J100009. So you set a trap or you just log back off. or Locater agent says scumsucker is in J111544. Okay, i've moved and you can go back to business as usual. Now if that changed that, you do a locater agent request and you get the result, that individual is beyond my realm of knowledge or whatever. Now you have no idea what to do. You have no idea if I'm in your WH or not. See the point? Nope i don't, doesn't matter do you know that they are in your WH or not, you have to take EXACTLY the same precautions as always in WH since there is no local. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 10:37:00 - [13] It's still a broken mechanic, there should be no possible means to determine if an individual is in a Wormhole or not. That's the point. A locater agent has no way to tell if you've crossed into a WH or if you're still in it. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Raa Chura It's still a broken mechanic, there should be no possible means to determine if an individual is in a Wormhole or not. That's the point. A locater agent has no way to tell if you've crossed into a WH or if you're still in it. It's broken because you say so, working fine for me. Give some real arguments not some yappy RP ****. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:02:00 - [15] Given its a MMORPG what better arguement is there? The WH local channel doesn't work because there is no stargate to update it as you pass through. Same should apply to locater agents. There is no record of you leaving the empire system when you do leave and when you query that empire system you aren't there. Explain how they know where you went. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Debt adjustor	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:29:00 - [16] Haha some people are just to anal to admit they're wrong. The fact that a WH leads you to unknown regions of space, should be a good enough reason to have that as the report from the Locator Agent. If an agent can work out what system you are in, they can sure work out that you went into a wormhole, I now have visions of lots of locator agents stuck in wh space 'cos they forgot to fit probe launchers to their ships.....
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:43:00 - [17] While I agree I can be anal, I always perceived the locater agent system by working on being able to determine where you went. The short stories in the game always describe the gaining of info by data passing from the stargate network. In my view, the locater agent doesn't go out and find someone, they do it through the gate system and local reporting. Since the gates aren't used for WH and there hopefully isn't a cloaked NPC assigned to every player in the gate, I can't logically figure out how an agent can discover the name of the WH you are in. If by some chance an agent can work out that you're not in K-space, then the report should return something like "we've lost track of <player> and the last system he was observed in was <k-space to WH>." That at least would let the person know where the individual entered a WH from. But the agent reporting the specific WH name is a bit far fetched. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Raa Chura Given its a MMORPG what better arguement is there? The WH local channel doesn't work because there is no stargate to update it as you pass through. Same should apply to locater agents. There is no record of you leaving the empire system when you do leave and when you query that empire system you aren't there. Explain how they know where you went. It's not because i don't give **** to RP here. What i care about is game play Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
MacMasters	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:38:00 - [19] if anything the locator should show the player as being in the last non-WH system before they jumped since they haven't left that system via gates, but this would be a terrible idea and would be better at getting you to that location than showing a WH system without showing you the way to it.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:38:00 - [20] The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic

Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.15 13:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Because it makes sense. It's not about RP, it's about consistency in the background technology/foundation of the game world. Every sci-fi movie/book/game has an underlying "imaginary technology". In order to make any kind of sense, the imaginary technology has to maintain some consistency. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 13:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Because it makes sense. It's not about RP, it's about consistency in the background technology/foundation of the game world. Every sci-fi movie/book/game has an underlying "imaginary technology". In order to make any kind of sense, the imaginary technology has to maintain some consistency. This is purely RP reason, got nothing to do with gameplay. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Rene Chekcnovski Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.15 14:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Because it makes sense. It's not about RP, it's about consistency in the background technology/foundation of the game world. Every sci-fi movie/book/game has an underlying "imaginary technology". In order to make any kind of sense, the imaginary technology has to maintain some consistency. This is purely RP reason, got nothing to do with gameplay. You talk about this being a purely RP reason. Yet you yourself have yet to state any reason why the locator agent should be able to find someone in W-space. So I ask you your own questions: Because [...] Fill [...] in Also RP has a lot to do with gameplay whether you like to admit it or not. Look at the standings system. You play a pirate in game sooner or later you won't be able to travel into high sec. Or your ruin your faction standing with the caldari and become shoot on sight for their military. Or the fact that you have to pay fees to concord to look the other way for wardecs... I could go on for hours.
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 14:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Rene Chekcnovski Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Valandril Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Because it makes sense. It's not about RP, it's about consistency in the background technology/foundation of the game world. Every sci-fi movie/book/game has an underlying "imaginary technology". In order to make any kind of sense, the imaginary technology has to maintain some consistency. This is purely RP reason, got nothing to do with gameplay. You talk about this being a purely RP reason. Yet you yourself have yet to state any reason why the locator agent should be able to find someone in W-space. So I ask you your own questions: Because [...] Fill [...] in Also RP has a lot to do with gameplay whether you like to admit it or not. Look at the standings system. You play a pirate in game sooner or later you won't be able to travel into high sec. Or your ruin your faction standing with the caldari and become shoot on sight for their military. Or the fact that you have to pay fees to concord to look the other way for wardecs... I could go on for hours. Because this way we can actualy use locator agent for their purpose. Mind that i'm not suggesting a nerf here but you, so its YOUR job to provide valid arguments. And that stuff you posted, how is it actualy limiting gameplay ? RP crappy stories were written to suit current gameplay, not the other way around. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.15 15:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The locator agents should just say something like "I can't locate X person." Obviously, this means they are in w-space, since the locators can find you anywhere in known space. The locators should not know exactly which w-space system you are in. Becasue [...] Fill [...] in Because it makes sense. It's not about RP, it's about consistency in the background technology/foundation of the game world. Every sci-fi movie/book/game has an underlying "imaginary technology". In order to make any kind of sense, the imaginary technology has to maintain some consistency. This is purely RP reason, got nothing to do with gameplay. Incorrect. Gameplay is more than pure mechanics in a game of this depth. Blatant inconsistencies or things that just don't make sense affect gameplay for thinking players. But that's fine, I'll put it in your terms. If someone makes the tactical decision and puts in the effort to leave Known Space there are both advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantages include being cut off from the market and easy access to supplies. The disadvantages include logistical challanges and the possibility of becoming "lost". The advantages of being cut off from Known Space should include dropping "off-the-grid" of locator agents. If a locator gives the answer "I can't find them." it means the same thing - the target is in a wormhole system. Gaining the locus signature name of the system doesn't really help much, does it? Gameplay: tactical decision to leave known space Gameplay effect: Locator agents know where you are not (any known system), but they don't know exactly where you are ('cause it's an unknown system) ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Valandril This is purely RP reason, got nothing to do with gameplay. Incorrect. Gameplay is more than pure mechanics in a game of this depth. Blatant inconsistencies or things that just don't make sense affect gameplay for thinking players. But that's fine, I'll put it in your terms. If someone makes the tactical decision and puts in the effort to leave Known Space there are both advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantages include being cut off from the market and easy access to supplies. The disadvantages include logistical challanges and the possibility of becoming "lost". The advantages of being cut off from Known Space should include dropping "off-the-grid" of locator agents. If a locator gives the answer "I can't find them." it means the same thing - the target is in a wormhole system. Gaining the locus signature name of the system doesn't really help much, does it? Gameplay: tactical decision to leave known space Gameplay effect: Locator agents know where you are not (any known system), but they don't know exactly where you are ('cause it's an unknown system) Still no reason WHY you should not be visible by agents, you've only put it in what you claim is my language. Also now you are getting exacly what you wrote - an unknown system name so i don't see any problem with that Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Rene Chekcnovski Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Valandril Still no reason WHY you should not be visible by agents, you've only put it in what you claim is my language. Also now you are getting exacly what you wrote - an unknown system name so i don't see any problem with that ...and now your looking for the reason as to why a person should not be visible to locator agents in W-space. Which is an RP question and will garnish RP responses to which you will respond BUT IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH GAMEPLAY!!! /sigh If you want to voice your opinion on this issues why not add something to the discussion instead of calling everyone out and saying your right regardless of what people say and without any reasons to support your stance. fake edit: you should think about getting into politics you would probibly do well.
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis eXsecratio Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Rene Chekcnovski Originally by: Valandril Still no reason WHY you should not be visible by agents, you've only put it in what you claim is my language. Also now you are getting exacly what you wrote - an unknown system name so i don't see any problem with that ...and now your looking for the reason as to why a person should not be visible to locator agents in W-space. Which is an RP question and will garnish RP responses to which you will respond BUT IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH GAMEPLAY!!! /sigh If you want to voice your opinion on this issues why not add something to the discussion instead of calling everyone out and saying your right regardless of what people say and without any reasons to support your stance. fake edit: you should think about getting into politics you would probibly do well. Not really, it concerns balanse. Why should you be totaly invisble in WH ? Already now it is close to imposibble to find constant wormholler. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:07:00 - [30] I think the best comprimise of game play mechanics and RP is that the agent will simply say it is beyond my ability. A lvl 2 agent can't find anyone outside of his region, a lvl 4 can. Maybe leave the WH capable locator agent ability to the lvl five agents. This way the functionalty is still there, but just as easily used as lvl 4s. Since the level five agents are in low sec, then this reward comes with some risk. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)



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