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[Star Fraction] Absinthe Brothers Surrender to the Free Captains!

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Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/09/2009 17:56:55 Dateline 17:36 hours Kamela System. 2009.09.15 17:36 The war between Absinthe Brothers Consortium and The Star Fraction is coming to an end. Absinthe Brothers Consortium has surrendered to The Star Fraction. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours. Battlestar Crusader the CEO of Absinthe Brothers Consortium has concluded formal surrender talks with the Star Fraction aimed at ending the long-running active wardec between the organizations. Following the surrender of a symbolic prototype cloaking device in the public hangers of Kamela station by the Absinthe CEO to the executor of the Star Fraction concord was notified of the end of hostilities and the 24 hour cool down period was initiated to the visible relief of the Amarrian capsuleer. Terms of Surrender include: Absinthe Brothers Consortium to leave the 24th Crusade within the next 24 hours. Battlestar Crusader to make a full and formal public apology to the Matari people of the Bleaklands and Devoid for the actions of his corporation over the past year and their support of the debased tyrant-queen Jamyl Sarum. Absinthe Brothers Consortium to end all support of slave-holding regimes throughout space and to issue a further declaration of condemnation naming the regressive CVA regime in Providence as a blight on the reputation of all civilized and rational capsuleers. On the provisio these terms are honoured in full I hereby give notice that Star Fraction pilots will cease aggressive action against Absinthe Pilots at this time tomorrow evening and we'll return them to neutral standings and normalize relations thereafter. If Absinthe fail to follow-through on any of these terms we will reinitialize the war declaration and prosecute it with increased ferocity and commmitment in the weeks ahead. So Battlestar and Absinthe Brothers Consortium. You have the opportunity for peace you have long negotiated to get. We have given you the chance you wanted. Will you take it? 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Onin Ra Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:57:00 - [2] HURF DE DURF --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:59:00 - [3] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 15/09/2009 18:02:28 aww shucks your just peeved becuase i tricked you and you thought it was at trade :P Dec us again, we arnt fussed. Just shows you for the Greifers you are. Are you really willing to submit your Uber warriors to more boredem jade. How long do you think they can stand doing absolutley nothign for. The oppertunity is yours jade walk away from this war or suffer another 6 months of boredom.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:02:00 - [4] Up to you if your honour your word or not Battlestar. You have 24 hours. Ultimately its all the same to us. You are the guys surrendering after all. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:06:00 - [5] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 15/09/2009 18:02:28 aww shucks your just peeved becuase i tricked you and you thought it was at trade :P Dec us again, we arnt fussed. Just shows you for the Greifers you are. Are you really willing to submit your Uber warriors to more boredem jade. How long do you think they can stand doing absolutley nothign for. The oppertunity is yours jade walk away from this war or suffer another 6 months of boredom. I must admit I haven't entirely been paying attention this last 48 hours since throwing my corporation's lot in with The Star Fraction... but somehow I doubt this is the response you were supposed to make. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:08:00 - [6]
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:12:00 - [7] Nice trick Battlestar had a good laugh. When each time someone surrenders its new bill payment to concord right there. See how many surrenders can SF wallet handle per week :)
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Nice trick Battlestar had a good laugh. When each time someone surrenders its new bill payment to concord right there. See how many surrenders can SF wallet handle per week :) I hope AB-C has more honor than to pretend. terms have always been the terms, you backing out now? that would be pathetic.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 15/09/2009 18:21:39 Originally by: Nur AlHuda Nice trick Battlestar had a good laugh. When each time someone surrenders its new bill payment to concord right there. See how many surrenders can SF wallet handle per week :) I hope AB-C has more honor than to pretend, as in the case with yourself and your claims of "slaves not paying war bills" terms have always been the terms, they backing out now? that would be pathetic. Tomahawk have you any proof on terms of surrender in chat? Jade accepted a trade without checking what happens and this is just poor damage control from him.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:26:00 - [10] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 15/09/2009 18:25:48 Sorry, don't give into griefers =)
Sky Grunthor Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:28:00 - [11] From remembrance, this agreement content is standard fair for SF. Kind of SOP for them. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Well I took Battlestar at his word. Ultimately what else can you do? Somebody asks for a chance to get out of the war and says its breaking his corporation to pieces and he just needs a way out to keep his people together. Well, I told him what he needed to do and I hoped he would count his reputation more precious than a mere 24 hours out of a six month ongoing war. If it was just a "tactic" and he was never serious at all then fair enough. We've all been scammed before doubtless. Not that its going to change anything in the long run. Still, we'll give him the 24 hours to quit the Militia and see what happens. If Battlestar breaks the terms it'll make shouting him some more all the sweeter 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
SuiJuris Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Well I took Battlestar at his word. Ultimately what else can you do? Somebody asks for a chance to get out of the war and says its breaking his corporation to pieces and he just needs a way out to keep his people together. Well, I told him what he needed to do and I hoped he would count his reputation more precious than a mere 24 hours out of a six month ongoing war. If it was just a "tactic" and he was never serious at all then fair enough. We've all been scammed before doubtless. Not that its going to change anything in the long run. Still, we'll give him the 24 hours to quit the Militia and see what happens. If Battlestar breaks the terms it'll make shouting him some more all the sweeter How does one Shout someone? --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Well I took Battlestar at his word. Ultimately what else can you do? Somebody asks for a chance to get out of the war and says its breaking his corporation to pieces and he just needs a way out to keep his people together. Well, I told him what he needed to do and I hoped he would count his reputation more precious than a mere 24 hours out of a six month ongoing war. If it was just a "tactic" and he was never serious at all then fair enough. We've all been scammed before doubtless. Not that its going to change anything in the long run. Still, we'll give him the 24 hours to quit the Militia and see what happens. If Battlestar breaks the terms it'll make shooting him some more all the sweeter. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:01:00 - [15] IVe just realised jade, you accepted the surrender, and there were no terms states when the surrender was in process, so you would be going on your words :) demanding terms after the surrender has taken place is a bit odd isnt it.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:18:00 - [16] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader IVe just realised jade, you accepted the surrender, and there were no terms states when the surrender was in process, so you would be going on your words :) demanding terms after the surrender has taken place is a bit odd isnt it. We've previously spoken of your surrender terms Battlestar. Many times in fact. Deny it as you wish. Ultimately unless you meet the terms the war will be renewed. You knew the price, up to you if you want to pay it. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:25:00 - [17] No im afriad jade, no terms were discussed at th time of surrender and none were agreed, by accpeting the surrender you agreed there were no terms. So being a man of your word, will you go back on yours, will you sacrafice your honour and taint the name of your oh so powerful alliance.
Spaceh	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:31:00 - [18] I didn't know SF was a Roleplaying corp.. ohwell, you learn something new every day :D
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:47:00 - [19] In the course of our campaign against the corporations of 24th Crusade I've personally encountered proud Amarr crusaders attempting to self destruct their vessels to nullify kill rights, severing pod interfaces in order to initiate emergency warp, and now this. Surrendering as a "tactic". More like exploiting a loophole in CONCORD rules of warfare. You lie, you cheat, you hide and spout complete nonsense on public channels unable to back up your filthy lies with any solid facts. Furthermore, the more useless the 24th Crusade pilot is in space, the more they have to say. Over the period of my involvement in the campaign I have actually developed respect for many ABC pilots and eventually for ABC as a whole, which by the way, can not be said about PIE or DIA. It appears my respect was misplaced. Thank you for confirming that the only Amarr loyalist worth talking to is a dead Amarr loyalist. I am not going to deny that sometimes the campaign grows stale and suppressing top corporations of 24th Crusade may seem a thankless task when the fruits of our effort are not capitalized upon. But I think you will find, Battlestar, that you just reignited our zeal and determination. At the very least I personally will increase my activity levels and will use my vote in Star Fraction to support the continuation of hostilities against Absinthe. No mercy, no dialog from me.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:47:00 - [20] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader No im afriad jade You should leave it there. You've made your fear quite evident every evening in local chat. Still, your fear has now made you abandon any principle you might claim so I can't feel terribly guilty about crushing you when the war is back on. By all means have a laugh at me being too trusting but don't let me hear whining about how I'm "griefing" your corporation in a couple of months now you hear? You brought this on yourselves. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
KIAEnIgMa Caldari Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.15 20:06:00 - [21] Im off to the pub... you know what one of them is right?
Tri Vetra Minmatar Rifters	Posted - 2009.09.15 20:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Nice trick Battlestar had a good laugh. When each time someone surrenders its new bill payment to concord right there. I hope this was not the reasoning behind your decision to surrender to us, Nur AlHuda.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 20:47:00 - [23] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 15/09/2009 20:47:43 look i am not a diplomat so I can't say what occured in the private diplomacy but i can prove the private diplomacy talks happened. AB-C, Keep to your word, show honor and stop making the Empire look childish and untrustworthy. own your words and keep to them or be forever a cull.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.15 21:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Tri Vetra Originally by: Nur AlHuda Nice trick Battlestar had a good laugh. When each time someone surrenders its new bill payment to concord right there. I hope this was not the reasoning behind your decision to surrender to us, Nur AlHuda. I didnt surrendered to noone.
Tri Vetra Minmatar Rifters	Posted - 2009.09.15 21:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Nur AlHuda I didnt surrendered to noone. This must have been pretty embarassing for one on the leading corporations in Amarr Militia to surrender to a 8-men group (half of which can't even pursue you in high security space). Your failure has been noted. Originally by: BattleStar Crusader No im afriad jade, no terms were discussed at th time of surrender and none were agreed, by accpeting the surrender you agreed there were no terms. So being a man of your word, will you go back on yours, will you sacrafice your honour and taint the name of your oh so powerful alliance. You sound a bit scared there, buddy. Is everything alright.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.15 21:52:00 - [26] Tri Vetra im definitely sure you dont know what you are talking about and definitely sure you dont understand the text of concord messages. But good that you showed it. Now you dont need to be ashamed of it.
Tri Vetra Minmatar Rifters	Posted - 2009.09.15 21:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Tri Vetra on 15/09/2009 22:02:15 Originally by: Nur AlHuda Tri Vetra im definitely sure you dont know what you are talking about and definitely sure you dont understand the text of concord messages. But good that you showed it. Now you dont need to be ashamed of it. Keep rationalizing, brother.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:15:00 - [28] I'm not one to defend the Amarrians or their supporters, but I don't seem to see any formal notification of surrender from Absinthe Brothers Consortium, or any terms laid out that they've agreed to on the IGS or otherwise. All I see is an automated mail from CONCORD. Claiming victory over someone, and their "Surrender" from a badly worded Evemail that's sent by CONCORD's automated billing service due to a number of factors, that can include leaving and joining alliances and all sorts of random and trivial things, is a bit weak hearted. I mean honestly, I'm the last person who'd want to badmouth the work of free men and women fighting authority, but is this really what the freecaptains have been reduced to in order to bring "victory" from an engagement? I'm honestly shocked. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Verone I'm honestly shocked. And we'd care what you think why exactly? Back under the rug gutter rat. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Verone Claiming victory over someone, and their "Surrender" from a badly worded Evemail that's sent by CONCORD's automated billing service due to a number of factors, that can include leaving and joining alliances and all sorts of random and trivial things, is a bit weak hearted. AB-C is not in an alliance... their surrender was exactly what it appears to be. -SF- declared war, as evidenced by communications unveiled by pilot Tomahawk Bliss AB-C acknowledged their inability to endure -SF-'s attention and began making overtures toward peace. Negotiations took place and the surrender was made. Rather than holding to their end of the bargain, AB-C came to the summit to talk smack. AB-C will suffer for this decision. I would expect someone like you to wait until they were at least semi-informed on a subject before posting. I'm honestly shocked. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Verone misunderstanding stuff I did post the mail about the diplomacy...if you click the link you'll see it. There was chating and such and this is the formal acceptance post. why are you trying to stir up issues? friendly to Battlestar or something? Don't you have a gate to camp somehwere?
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone I'm honestly shocked. And we'd care what you think why exactly? Back under the rug gutter rat. I take it your a little sore at me for some reason? Strange. I do remember the last time we spoke in person it was somewhat of a friendly exchange Jade. I also remember myself and my ex-wife enjoyed your company and valued you as a good friend, along with your late partner. Strange turn of events, and a bizarre and somewhat unwarranted outburst for no real reason. I'm of the personal opinion that grudges stay in space, and there's no substitute for presenting yourself with at least a little moral fibre and decency. Still, no harm no foul. I'm sure you'll learn to control your tongue and be more polite in time. Oh, and for reference a gutter rat is named as such because it lives in the gutter, not under a rug. I accept that I live in the gutter, at the bottom, but from where I stand the only way is up. I have a bright future ahead of me. On the contrary, it's a long fall for you from that self envisaged pedestal among the high and mighty clouds you've placed yourself upon. Pack light, and maybe you'll bounce. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:37:00 - [33] what the heck are you talking about? You are sticking your beak in this buisness with no info and are wrong too boot. stop taking Crash, it burns out that pretty face.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss why are you trying to stir up issues? friendly to Battlestar or something? Don't you have a gate to camp somehwere? As I said, if you'd have digested what was written before also launching an attack, I'm no friend of Amarr loyalists and intended in no way to badmouth the work of the freecaptains. My post was written as a question, hence the question mark at the end of it. The Fraction seems awfully self conscious and defensive in recent months for some reason, I'm concerned as to why this might be. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss why are you trying to stir up issues? friendly to Battlestar or something? Don't you have a gate to camp somehwere? As I said, if you'd have digested what was written before also launching an attack, I'm no friend of Amarr loyalists and intended in no way to badmouth the work of the freecaptains. My post was written as a question, hence the question mark at the end of it. The Fraction seems awfully self conscious and defensive in recent months for some reason, I'm concerned as to why this might be. the thread has the answers, no need to trash SF when we aren't the ones who intend to break their word...as it seems Battlestar Crusader is.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Verone I'm no friend of Amarr loyalists and intended in no way to badmouth the work of the freecaptains. In all the time I've known of you Verone you have been a consistent supporter of the Amarrian nationalists and verbal enemy of the Fraction. Sometimes you've claimed otherwise but your nature generally shines through. You are a gutter-rat and you respect what you perceive to be the success of more successful gutter-rats, hence your idolization of the Amarrian nationalist bloc. Quote: The Fraction seems awfully self conscious and defensive in recent months for some reason, I'm concerned as to why this might be. Don't mistake our derision for the clusmy interventions of a washed up pirate for any real concern. Battlestar Crusader has embarrassed himself and his corporation immensely today. You take his side and become a mockery. Thats really all there is to it. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Gebher'el Amarr The King's Sword	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:59:00 - [37] Originally by: Tecam Hund In the course of our campaign against the corporations of 24th Crusade I've personally encountered proud Amarr crusaders attempting to self destruct their vessels to nullify kill rights, I am curious, you say this like this is a direputable act in some way. How exactly is this a wrong thing to do. You know you will lose your ship so you self destruct the ship to deny the enemy the kill, this is bad how? Does it make the victory in the combat any less sweat? Is not the goal of any pilot to deny his enemy a kill? In fact is not a self destruct a smart thing since it allows the pilot to control the timing of the destruction and thus making it more likely he can escape in his pod? I find it interesting you consider a viable tactic in some way bad... Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, God will be a light unto me.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Originally by: Verone Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss why are you trying to stir up issues? friendly to Battlestar or something? Don't you have a gate to camp somehwere? As I said, if you'd have digested what was written before also launching an attack, I'm no friend of Amarr loyalists and intended in no way to badmouth the work of the freecaptains. My post was written as a question, hence the question mark at the end of it. The Fraction seems awfully self conscious and defensive in recent months for some reason, I'm concerned as to why this might be. the thread has the answers, no need to trash SF when we aren't the ones who intend to break their word...as it seems Battlestar Crusader is. I'm not intending to "trash" The Fraction at all, as you'll see from my words in your own quote of what I posted. I asked a question as I take interest in the Freecaptains operations against the Empire, and the State. Originally by: Jade Constantine In all the time I've known of you Verone you have been a consistent supporter of the Amarrian nationalists and verbal enemy of the Fraction. Sometimes you've claimed otherwise but your nature generally shines through. You are a gutter-rat and you respect what you perceive to be the success of more successful gutter-rats, hence your idolization of the Amarrian nationalist bloc. As for you Jade, I'll take your lack of a reasonable reply as either agreement with me, given I've done you no wrong, or the fact you're off looking for a random old and dated quote from me somewhere that you can twist the words in to make me seem the aggressive party here. I actually remember wishing you luck at the start of Operation Castrato rather vividly. Your claims I'm an Amarr Loyalist supporter with absolutely no remotely solid or consequential evidence baffle me somewhat, considering on a number of occasions in the past I've shared good conversation with yourself and your late partner Revan, who many will know is a Sani-Sabik Loyalist, and attended many of her rather lavish and enjoyable parties. I apologise wholeheartedly if I offended you sweetheart, or misunderstood your initial post and I hope you're still as well as the last time we spoke in person. It was after all a long time ago. I'm sure you'll realise when you calm yourself down and aren't so confused that what I said was a question rather than an attack on the freecaptains combat abilities. I of course, as always, wish you luck against the 24th Imperial Crusade and their capsuleer paramilitaries. To Toma, apologies if my questions offended you. I'm also glad that you feel my face is pretty, that new line in moisturising capsule suspension fluid is obviously working up to par. You're quite striking yourself for a Brutor, but I'm sorry my bread just isn't buttered that side. I'll leave you to continue to hurl abuse at me for no apparent reason, I have more important things to take care of. Take care of yourselves, and once again good luck. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Gebher'el I am curious, you say this like this is a direputable act in some way. How exactly is this a wrong thing to do. You know you will lose your ship so you self destruct the ship to deny the enemy the kill, this is bad how? I think tecam was talking more about suiciding an unfitted or poorly fitted ship and crew against a SF vessel purely to nulify kill-rights granted on previous engagements. I've certainly seen 24th Crusades attack my vessels with gutter-fit battleships just through fear of the kill-rights I had on them. Its more a form of assisted suicide. Obviously it leads to some better peace of mind on their part - but it is showing a lamentable lack of faith in their own abilities and the help they can expect from friends. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Gebher'el I am curious, you say this like this is a direputable act in some way. How exactly is this a wrong thing to do. You know you will lose your ship so you self destruct the ship to deny the enemy the kill, this is bad how? A certain God's Crusader whose name escapes me now attempted to self destruct a proud Armageddon class battleship not engaged in battle upon receiving some ill advice from one of his comrades. He canceled the countdown after realizing that it would not actually work and let his nearly unfitted vessel be destroyed without a fight instead. A heathen, anarchist and terrorist, I would never dishonor myself such. Surely an Imperial Crusaders have higher standards, or do they?
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:30:00 - [41] Originally by: Jade Constantine I've certainly seen 24th Crusades attack my vessels with gutter-fit battleships just through fear of the kill-rights I had on them. Its more a form of assisted suicide. Obviously it leads to some better peace of mind on their part - but it is showing a lamentable lack of faith in their own abilities and the help they can expect from friends. Ah, I remember the last time I had killrights on you. Amidst a fleet of your SF fleetmates in a standoff with a 24th Crusade Fleet. My Crusaded attacked your Thorax without hesitation, stripping its shields and ripping into your armor while your shot were ineffectually missing. You launched a full flight of Vespa EC-600's on me, but they failed to jam me while you dipped below 50% armor. Then you ordered your fleet members to open fire on me in a breach of Concord regulations while you quickly and cravenly warped out yourself. My Crusader was wrecked, but at the cost of 4 of your fleet mates ships, which were picked apart by the sentry guns and the 24th Crusade fleet. The true face of ms. Constantine was revealed there. Ordering her fleetmates to sacrifice their ships on her behalf and running away. From a my setup she classified as a 'running away fit' herself. I know it might have been embarassing to lose one's Thorax to a 'running away ship' while a significant part of your alliance is watching, but really. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Merdaneth Notice Me Notice Me Notice MEEEEE!" Boring evening eh? 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:44:00 - [43] Verone, to somewhat answer your question, the negotiations between Star Fraction and Battlestar were ongoing for what must have been close to two months now. No exact logs of these negotiations were divulged even to the membership of the Star Fraction. I only know that several talks have happened between Battlestar and various members of SF. Our terms are quite standard as well and I doubt anyone would come to expect us demanding anything less than Absinthe leaving the Crusade. As you can see everything was quite respectful, and if you followed our progress on IGS you know that we never dishonor our enemies who choose to leave the conflict (which I am sure was brought up to Battlestar's attention). Also, it's worth a note that while the fact that negotiations were happening was known not a single member of Star Fraction made that known in public up to this point. That should only reinforce the fact that we take our diplomacy seriously and give our enemies the respect we think they deserve. It is no surprise that in light of this Battlestar's surrender was thought to be genuine. Nor there was any need to discuss the terms that were already made perfectly clear.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Merdaneth Notice Me Notice Me Notice MEEEEE!" Boring evening eh? Indeed. Perhaps I am starting to resemble late ms. Neferis somewhat. Merdaneth ponders Indeed, I'll refrain from posting more in this thread. My apologies. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Tecam Hund Verone, to somewhat answer your question, the negotiations between Star Fraction and Battlestar were ongoing for what must have been close to two months now. No exact logs of these negotiations were divulged even to the membership of the Star Fraction. I only know that several talks have happened between Battlestar and various members of SF. Our terms are quite standard as well and I doubt anyone would come to expect us demanding anything less than Absinthe leaving the Crusade. As you can see everything was quite respectful, and if you followed our progress on IGS you know that we never dishonor our enemies who choose to leave the conflict (which I am sure was brought up to Battlestar's attention). Also, it's worth a note that while the fact that negotiations were happening was known not a single member of Star Fraction made that known in public up to this point. That should only reinforce the fact that we take our diplomacy seriously and give our enemies the respect we think they deserve. It is no surprise that in light of this Battlestar's surrender was thought to be genuine. Nor there was any need to discuss the terms that were already made perfectly clear. Outstanding. Thanks for the rather more civil clarification, it's much appreciated. Good luck in concluding successful negotiations. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Casiella Truza Back Alley Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.16 01:39:00 - [46] So, no surrender, then, right? Am I correct in understanding that somebody thinks that the CONCORD wardec fees will cause trouble to an alliance that has (had?) a titan? -- EVE Blog EVE Twitter
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:11:00 - [47] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader No im afriad jade, no terms were discussed at th time of surrender and none were agreed, by accpeting the surrender you agreed there were no terms. So being a man of your word, will you go back on yours, will you sacrafice your honour and taint the name of your oh so powerful alliance. ^^this, pure win.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Invelious Originally by: BattleStar Crusader No im afriad jade, no terms were discussed at th time of surrender and none were agreed, by accpeting the surrender you agreed there were no terms. So being a man of your word, will you go back on yours, will you sacrafice your honour and taint the name of your oh so powerful alliance. ^^this, pure win. No surprise to find you supporting a liar and foresworn dog condemned and distrusted even by his own corporation for this. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:17:00 - [49] And we'd care what you think why exactly? Back under the rug gutter rat. ^^This^^...not a smart comment to be making in response to a legitimate and honest reply
Theophilas Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:21:00 - [50] Originally by: Invelious And we'd care what you think why exactly? Back under the rug gutter rat. ^^This^^...not a smart comment to be making in response to a legitimate and honest reply Star Fraction only cares about Star Fraction, and more specifically, Jade only cares about Jade. Their corp and their philosophy are hollow. -------------------------------------------------- No sooner said than done - so acts your man of worth.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Theophilas Originally by: Invelious And we'd care what you think why exactly? Back under the rug gutter rat. ^^This^^...not a smart comment to be making in response to a legitimate and honest reply Star Fraction only cares about Star Fraction, and more specifically, Jade only cares about Jade. Their corp and their philosophy are hollow. True Story. Theo never lies.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Invelious True Story. Theo never lies. Never fights either... almost as if his only job is posting on IGS. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 02:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Invelious True Story. Theo never lies. Never fights either... almost as if his only job is posting on IGS. Not everyone has to fight to contribute. and his posting is spot on, hence your defensive remark.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 03:03:00 - [54] Originally by: Invelious Not everyone has to fight to contribute. and his posting is spot on, hence your defensive remark. Since when has suggesting that somebody is a substance-free forum-only mouthpiece been in any ways considered "defensive"? That dear chap was as defensive as a stab in the face with a sharp stick. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Theophilas Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 03:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade Constantine is a substance-free forum-only mouthpiece Interesting word choice Jade... -------------------------------------------------- No sooner said than done - so acts your man of worth.
Kai Zion	Posted - 2009.09.16 03:44:00 - [56] Originally by: Theophilas Star Fraction only cares about Star Fraction That is a seductive claim, pilot. Simple, elegant, and on the surface, seemingly supported by a plethora of evidence. But you must learn your history my dear, and try to understand the politics of our kind. You see, you are talking about one of the most longstanding NRDS organizations in New Eden. Their rules of engagement have effectively mandated a concern for entities outside their own organization for as long as history records their existence as one. Even before there was a Star Fraction, far back in time, where brief historical anecdotes paint the story of a rag-tag crew of nobody anarchists slumming around in H-PA, even then, they had concerns for others outside their own corporation. The records kept by the Fraction's enemies at the time will even confirm this much, you needn't take my word for it. And so, of course, singling them out amongst an endless ocean of territorial NBSI entities and accusing them of self-interest, when throughout the years, that capacity to care for others outside their immediate corporate family has been a uniquely central, consistent theme to their struggle...one that they would sooner self-destruct over than see betrayed, well, that would be about the most illogical argument you could attempt to pass off as fact.
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:21:00 - [57] SF has twice now dropped wars on my corporation. We did not howl to the masses on IGS. We did not pat ourselves on the back. From PIE, to ATCR, to AMC, Star Fraction have given up their wars over and over and over SF, however, honestly need this sort of thing. This thread is a joke that all but SF are in on. However, SF has always been a group unable and unwilling to see when they are the butt of the joke, or to acknowledge the size of the amused audience. I do find it ironic that SF value a CONCORD form letter as proof that they have not been wasting their time, while the subject of that letter feels quite otherwise. Most intelligent organisations in the starcluster have figured this stuff out years ago. SF, it would seem, do not have possess any capacity for this sort of learning. Let them have their forum drama. Otherwise, they might do something real or productive, and that would probably be a lot worse for everyone, wouldn't it? This is where you fall down.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Graelyn Let them have their forum drama. Otherwise, they might do something real or productive, and that would probably be a lot worse for everyone, wouldn't it? Fine words from another never-seen-in-space dockmonkey. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Graelyn on 16/09/2009 04:44:38 Are you mad? You sound mad. You also sound incapable of refuting anything I show the world about you. But that is, of course, the longstanding status quo. Your tears are far too commonplace and prevalent to find any enjoyment in, unfortunately, but I will admit that my weakness for shaedenfruede never fails to draw my attention to the sad spectacle of the Star Fraction and it's leadership. This is where you fall down.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Graelyn Are you mad? You sound mad. Quoting hand-me-down goonswarm memes now Graelyn? I suppose thats about your level. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:48:00 - [61] Edited by: Graelyn on 16/09/2009 04:49:01 I admit, it is difficult sometimes to generate new content about you. There are only so many synonyms for 'pathetic' in the Amarrian language, and SF-related humor has been propagating through the cluster for too many years to guarantee freshness. Perhaps one day you will aspire to better. Current trends suggest I shouldn't hold my breath. Good day! Graelyn waves to the upset anarchist and closes the channel This is where you fall down.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:48:00 - [62] Originally by: Kai Zion Originally by: Theophilas Star Fraction only cares about Star Fraction That is a seductive claim, pilot. Simple, elegant, and on the surface, seemingly supported by a plethora of evidence. But you must learn your history my dear, and try to understand the politics of our kind. You see, you are talking about one of the most longstanding NRDS organizations in New Eden. Their rules of engagement have effectively mandated a concern for entities outside their own organization for as long as history records their existence as one. Even before there was a Star Fraction, far back in time, where brief historical anecdotes paint the story of a rag-tag crew of nobody anarchists slumming around in H-PA, even then, they had concerns for others outside their own corporation. The records kept by the Fraction's enemies at the time will even confirm this much, you needn't take my word for it. And so, of course, singling them out amongst an endless ocean of territorial NBSI entities and accusing them of self-interest, when throughout the years, that capacity to care for others outside their immediate corporate family has been a uniquely central, consistent theme to their struggle...one that they would sooner self-destruct over than see betrayed, well, that would be about the most illogical argument you could attempt to pass off as fact. Good to hear from you Kai Zion, and a brave attempt to bring a little logic to the mewling complaints of Amarrian nationalist folly. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:13:00 - [63] Originally by: Graelyn Edited by: Graelyn on 16/09/2009 04:54:29 SF has twice now dropped wars on my current corporation. We did not howl to the masses on IGS. We did not pat ourselves on the back. From PIE, to ATCR, to AMC, I have watched Star Fraction give up their wars over and over and over, probably 10 - 20 times in total. It's not something that warrants any sort of note, it's the way wars are fought.... Unless, apparently, you are SF. Then these things take on a magical significance. All that writing Graelyn, and all for nothing. For one, Absinthe could not drop the war due to being on the receiving end of it. Secondly it is not the CONCORD mail that is important, but its gesture. The surrender was initiated by Battlestar and accepted by SF. We do not expect such things to be treated as meaningless jokes. You also seem to have completely missed the little explanation I wrote to answer Verone's question and proceeded with spewing out your mess of a misinformed opinion anyway. Or perhaps you omitted it on purpose. It is interesting that you find our situation embarrassing, but not surprising to me anymore after seeing how little integrity the 24th Crusade actually has. As for the irrelevance bit, I don't think it even has to be addressed. Ramblings of someone whose involvement in the conflict is largely limited to IGS are to be ignored. It was once said that honour is a gift man gives himself. Maybe the Crusaders should consider giving themselves one.
Razor Nyx	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:53:00 - [64] Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/09/2009 18:51:23 (double post please delete) Finally something sensible.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:06:00 - [65] Btw with that mails from BC to Tomahawk most of the ceos in amarr miltia have known about this including me. So they are hardly any terms of surrender or negotiating as it was no secret in amarr miltia that BC had Tomahawk in high regard as their conversations were on various topics. So jade made a mistake accepting trade window fron the book of tricks 101 - 2003 editon. And jades ego got hurt so he start to fabricate lies about some terms of surrender. In conclusion i never ever remember that PIE or any other loyalist corp in militia would post a victory message after SF revoked war.
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:13:00 - [66] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Btw with that mails from BC to Tomahawk most of the ceos in amarr miltia have known about this including me. Neither Tomahawk is a diplomatic contact, nor was he the only person in SF to have talks with BattleStar.
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:26:00 - [67] Edited by: Graelyn on 16/09/2009 12:29:43 Originally by: Tecam Hund It is interesting that you find our situation embarrassing, but not surprising to me anymore after seeing how little integrity the 24th Crusade actually has. The only reason you feel all misty about these things is that your silly and renowned CEO made some kind of victorious ticker-tape parade out of the entire affair. This is the sort of thing that Jade Constantine does. You might say that, aside from hemorrhaging capital ships, it is her stock and trade. It is not a difficult joke to attempt. It is your CEO's prerogative to make the issue as LOUD AS POSSIBLE before even confirming anything as fact, in the hopes of shoving some air into her half-deflated, titan-sized ego. Thus, when it backfires in your face, the same AMPLIFIED results apply. Do the right thing. Learn from your CEOs mistake in ways that she is incapable. Your organisation on the whole will benefit from this greatly. Originally by: Tecam Hund As for the irrelevance bit, I don't think it even has to be addressed. Ramblings of someone whose involvement in the conflict is largely limited to IGS are to be ignored. Now that's a dumb thing to say. These kills on our boards must be complete fabrications then! Or is it simply that you are upset that I engage actual Tribal forces, while ignoring the distractions that make up the Fractionist cause? Killing your forces does not help the war effort one iota! Bypassing your horrible intel gathering abilities and striking the actual enemy directly does. As basic as this truth is, I wonder how many among your leadership have bothered to give it any heed? In truth, it took the Amarr militia as a whole a very long time to do so. Your forces simply have less of an excuse. Originally by: Nur AlHuda In conclusion i never ever remember that PIE or any other loyalist corp in militia would post a victory message after SF revoked war. Indeed. Nowadays, such ************ is solely the domain of one solitary individual who has done so once again to begin this thread. Unfortunately for the organisation that this person leads, other more capable minds have not risen to take over the duties of public relations. Every statement made by other members of the Fractionists, in this thread and many, many others like though the years, have been far more professional and less prone to impulsive and humiliating displays. This is where you fall down.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:50:00 - [68] A brief word for Verone before moving to the substantive issue. I do not take the view that Veto are 'pro-Amarr'. I am clear that Veto is more or less anti-government and pro-freedom in its own way. However, when all is said and done, we are enemies, Verone. We are enemies not by the choice of the Star Fraction but by the choice of Veto. So, while you may not like the reaction of Jade to your intervention and while it may have been a trifle overstated, it is ultimately the reaction of someone to a foe. Now, you say you wish us well and you say you support people fighting for freedom. Well, perhaps so, but I am really not sure why the state of hostility between us remains in place if that is so. That is not really for this thread and I leave it up to you to ponder that one and decide if you want to effect change. Moving on to the main issue, let us be clear about what happened here. The Star Fraction did not retract the war in this case. So comparisons with war retractions are completely moot. Absinthe Brothers Consortium did not disband or leave an alliance, or otherwise trigger in some fashion an automatic CONCORD notification of 'surrender'. So talk of it being CONCORD bureaucrats generating meaningless paperwork is repugnantly disingenuous. Absinthe Brothers Consortium formally offered surrender within the framework of CONCORD-sanctioned warfare. They did this against a background of diplomacy of which I have the records and which I will attest on my word of honour took place at the end of July this year and intermittently continued subsequently. I will not reveal any details of the discussions but I think it breaches no etiquette to state that our standard terms of surrender were presented to Absinthe diplomats more than once. So, when Absinthe formally triggered the surrender protocol, as a deliberate act not as a by-product of anything else, we took the view that Absinthe were genuinely seeking the peace between our organisatons that they had so often told us they desired. Well, clearly we were wrong. There's no doubt that we were tricked here. What point to deny it? If Absinthe and their friends wish to treat diplomacy as a joke that's up to them. They tricked us, ultimately, because we were willing to trust them. Amusing as that may be to them, I think it speaks well of us and underlines our commitment to diplomacy. I have to say, as a diplomat, after this I will find it very difficult to believe anything these parties may wish to say in future. I wish these people the enjoyment of their joke. They will find, however, that if anything our resolve will be much strengthened by the knowledge that these are entities where no diplomatic solution appears possible. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:52:00 - [69] To Graelyn: Announcement or no announcement the fact is that BattleStar decided to make a joke out of diplomatic process. He might feel clever about how he managed to scam The Star Fraction, but it will have a negative impact on his corp and reputation. Your involvement in the conflict is largely limited to IGS, Graelyn. And yes, I saw your combat record, which quite frankly means very little as combat records do not reflect pilot's ability and impact of his presence. I also couldn't care less who you choose to engage. But let us not concentrate on you fooling yourself regarding your combat prowess. Finally, seeing how you and Nur AlHuda insist on ignoring the facts and explanations presented by me in hopeless attempt to have dialog with you, I shall retire from this thread. The only talking left to do is ought to be left to the guns. See you in space, or not...
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 13:03:00 - [70] Edited by: Graelyn on 16/09/2009 13:04:33 Quote: Announcement or no announcement the fact is that BattleStar decided to make a joke out of diplomatic process. He might feel clever about how he managed to scam The Star Fraction, but it will have a negative impact on his corp and reputation. In a perfect world, perhaps. In the world of crass and failure-fascinated Capsuleers, I think it will be a different reputation that takes yet another hit. smiles You really should let Mr. Cosmopolite up there do your announcements. He seems much better equipped for the task, and makes swallowing your freespacer propaganda almost palletable! This is where you fall down.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 13:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Nur AlHuda So jade made a mistake accepting trade window fron the book of tricks 101 - 2003 editon. And jades ego got hurt so he start to fabricate lies about some terms of surrender.In conclusion i never ever remember that PIE or any other loyalist corp in militia would post a victory message after SF revoked war. Why would my ego be hurt by such a measure? What does it change? In 28 hours we'll be at war again. Only difference will be that Battlestar Crusader and his corporation will find it immeasurably more difficult to conduct such negotiations in the future. And not sure how you are claiming fabrication when it has become fully apparent that the 24th Crusade knew about Battlestar's surrender negotiations and plea-bargaining months ago (even if members of his own corp did not). Reality is that Battlestar has been groaning and lamenting his corporation's fate in Kamela local for the last few weeks and no-one can be in any doubt as to his desire to get out of the war that has seen his corporation crushed from a once-proud battleship-capable powerhouse into the current mean shell-entity that has trouble rustling up a couple of interceptors to sneak onto 24th Crusade 20-1 engagements against the TLF. You are very proud that Battlestar has gulled us here. You consider that lies and treachery and doubtle-dealing are worthy attributes and things to be praised. Very well, noted. But I will tell you that this opinion is not shared amongst Battlestar's own corporation and matters there may take their momentum now. Still, war will be renewed this evening and we'll see who ultimately benefits from the infamous "faked surrender" scandal. Something tells me it won't be Absinthe Brothers Consortium though... 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.16 13:48:00 - [72] Originally by: The Cosmopolite A brief word for Verone before moving to the substantive issue. I do not take the view that Veto are 'pro-Amarr'. I am clear that Veto is more or less anti-government and pro-freedom in its own way. However, when all is said and done, we are enemies, Verone. We are enemies not by the choice of the Star Fraction but by the choice of Veto. So, while you may not like the reaction of Jade to your intervention and while it may have been a trifle overstated, it is ultimately the reaction of someone to a foe. Now, you say you wish us well and you say you support people fighting for freedom. Well, perhaps so, but I am really not sure why the state of hostility between us remains in place if that is so. That is not really for this thread and I leave it up to you to ponder that one and decide if you want to effect change. Actually, I'd like to correct you there. We're enemies because of a situation that developed after one of my pilots decided to drink a few too many Blue Rumbles and take his Thorax on a solo Sortie. He came up against a small group headed by a Jericho Fraction speed fitted typhoon, thought "what the hell" and ultimately lost his vessel and crew. I was contacted by The Fraction, and informed them there was no hostility intended from his drunken idiocy. The pilot, who ironically is no longer in active service, lost his vessel as reprimand for his dimwitted actions. Completely acceptable. It was the Fraction who decided to throw the toys from the proverbial pram and make the move to reduce standings to negative ten, even after the situation was explained reasonably and directly by myself. We simply mirrored the standings for the operational safety of our pilots. Frankly based on statistics alone which I'll add mean very little in the grand scheme of things, it hasn't exactly been a bad move on our part to protect our employees. On a personal level for a lot of years I've regarded Jade as a friend and always did hope that The Fraction would realise the mistake, and an agreement could be settled between us. Unfortunately she seems to have developed some form of unexplainable hostility and personal hate for me despite past friendships. The reaction I received here wasn't the reaction from a Foe, it was nothing more than a badly timed and worded acid tongued jab and an attempt to inflate her chest on a public comms forum. Still, no harm no foul, I'm disappointed more than anything else. As for the claims of Amarr loyalist sympathy, I'm glad to see you don't have blinders on to the world in front of your eyes, Cosmo. The murder of a number of slavers, and the thousands of slaves we're liberated and handed over to freedom fighting paramilitaries in the last four years of our operation speak for themselves. On a personal note to you, I appreciate the civil response and offer thanks to both yourself and Tecam again for offering a well rounded response rather than a defensive swipe for no justifiable reason. You both have my gratitude, and I wish yourselves and the Fraction further success in future assaults against Nationalists of all flavours. I'll leave you all alone now with Graelyn and let the sound of Neutron cannon fire and statistics do further talking if our paths should unfortunately cross in future. That is of course unless the Fraction decides it would rather talk. There really is nothing more to say on the subject, so I'll offer you the best of luck with future operations, Cosmo. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.16 14:33:00 - [73] I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the tersm laid out by yourself.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:19:00 - [74] Originally by: The Cosmopolite A brief word for Verone before moving to the substantive issue. I do not take the view that Veto are 'pro-Amarr'. I am clear that Veto is more or less anti-government and pro-freedom in its own way. However, when all is said and done, we are enemies, Verone. We are enemies not by the choice of the Star Fraction but by the choice of Veto. So, while you may not like the reaction of Jade to your intervention and while it may have been a trifle overstated, it is ultimately the reaction of someone to a foe. Now, you say you wish us well and you say you support people fighting for freedom. Well, perhaps so, but I am really not sure why the state of hostility between us remains in place if that is so. That is not really for this thread and I leave it up to you to ponder that one and decide if you want to effect change. Moving on to the main issue, let us be clear about what happened here. The Star Fraction did not retract the war in this case. So comparisons with war retractions are completely moot. Absinthe Brothers Consortium did not disband or leave an alliance, or otherwise trigger in some fashion an automatic CONCORD notification of 'surrender'. So talk of it being CONCORD bureaucrats generating meaningless paperwork is repugnantly disingenuous. Absinthe Brothers Consortium formally offered surrender within the framework of CONCORD-sanctioned warfare. They did this against a background of diplomacy of which I have the records and which I will attest on my word of honour took place at the end of July this year and intermittently continued subsequently. I will not reveal any details of the discussions but I think it breaches no etiquette to state that our standard terms of surrender were presented to Absinthe diplomats more than once. So, when Absinthe formally triggered the surrender protocol, as a deliberate act not as a by-product of anything else, we took the view that Absinthe were genuinely seeking the peace between our organisatons that they had so often told us they desired. Well, clearly we were wrong. There's no doubt that we were tricked here. What point to deny it? If Absinthe and their friends wish to treat diplomacy as a joke that's up to them. They tricked us, ultimately, because we were willing to trust them. Amusing as that may be to them, I think it speaks well of us and underlines our commitment to diplomacy. I have to say, as a diplomat, after this I will find it very difficult to believe anything these parties may wish to say in future. I wish these people the enjoyment of their joke. They will find, however, that if anything our resolve will be much strengthened by the knowledge that these are entities where no diplomatic solution appears possible. The Cosmopolite ^^This^^ is as usually, Cosmo trying to cover up for Jadders idiocy. If it wasnt for this guy SF would be non existant.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:20:00 - [75] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 16/09/2009 15:25:02 Well, Verone, if you'll forgive me, I take a different view with regard to the incident and the subsequent talks between the Star Fraction and Veto. The pilot in question was, as you say, one Sola Sola who decided to attack a Star Fraction Typhoon-class battleship in his Thorax-class vessel. He was at the time a member of Veto Academy, in the Veto alliance. You accepted that this pilot initiated aggression on us. I am not sure why his losing his ship was sufficient reprimand but it does chime with your quite open position that you could not guarantee your pilots would not fire on us again and that you were not inclined to set us blue in order to avoid such incidents in future. Your position was effectively that Veto wished to keep us neutral and you couldn't, as the CEO and executor of an outfit that, as I understand it, has never had a difficulty with the label 'pirate' and all it implies, say that your pilots would never attack us. Given that, quite why it is to 'throw toys out of the pram' to take the view that for our pilots' protection we had to set the 'Veto brand' entities red, I do not know. You were also told that if you wished to talk further about setting standings that would realistically prevent hostilities between our respective organization's pilots we would always be prepared to listen. I really think you should not mix up this issue with any question of personal relationships with Jade Constantine though. That, I can assure you, has nothing to do with the diplomacy in question. If the suggestion is that this is really all down to crossed-wires and misunderstanding, I am happy to accept that and you should feel free to contact us. I recall some of the discussions took place in bars and much alcohol and other substances were in evidence. There may well be a case for letting the past lie and starting anew on the question of diplomacy. I don't though think it is credible to say that we somehow desired to keep you red for some special reason. The simple fact is, the situation has long been a puzzle to us and our door has always been open for diplomacy, as it always is to everyone who doesn't treat diplomacy as a joke or an opportunity for base treachery. This is tolerably well-known. As I say, if you are saying you would want to talk to us with a view to cessation of hostilities, please do contact us and we'll be very happy to conclude workable standings with your organisation. It does seem faintly odd given our politics are not completely at odds with one another that we would be hostiles. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Al'Gouhti Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:28:00 - [76] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Further more our modern era H-i-t-l-e-r has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If the hag Jamyl is not a tyrant, noone is. And you serve her cause Originally by: Mr Reeth Is this a thread whose sole purpose is to bait and bash SF? Classless... utterly classless.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 16:51:00 - [77] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:46:35 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:39:39 I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the terms laid out by yourself. This is rather poor post quality, even for you BSC. I understand that you must've been quite upset after the reaming you've received from the other leadership figures in [AB-C] but you really should've waited until you were a little more emotionally and mentally 'settled' before attempting a post designed to re-open the possibility of a diplomatic outcome while also saving face in a position that - due to your own ill-advised actions both in space and here on the IGS - is quite nearly untenable. Because you're really not doing yourself or your corporation any favors, here. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:04:00 - [78] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:46:35 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:39:39 I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the terms laid out by yourself. You talk as though you have anything to barter with. Terms of surrender have been explained to you time and time again, if you are not willing to accept them you shouldn't be submitting fraudulent documents to CONCORD. We fight for freedom, a compromised freedom is no freedom at all. I noticed you licking the boots of -7- not long ago, so you clearly don't have any issues with 'pride' like you once had... I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would do something like this. At best you buy yourselves 28 hours of peace, ruin your corps reputation and probably any future it might have had. We will now crush your corporation into non-existence. See you in space.
Casiella Truza Back Alley Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:30:00 - [79] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:46:35 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:39:39 I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the terms laid out by yourself. I think my translator software needs an update because this reads like gibberish to me. Can anyone else understand it? -- EVE Blog EVE Twitter
RagaDude Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:51:00 - [80] Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:46:35 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:39:39 I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the terms laid out by yourself. I think my translator software needs an update because this reads like gibberish to me. Can anyone else understand it? I ran it through my Amarrtomatariomatic capsule translation software and it comes out something like: "I can't surrender as much as I want to because you asked us to surrender and although you have ruined my corp because you aren't in the TLF its got nothing to do with you. Jade is unkind to us. We'd love some better terms to surrender on btw."
Iqnius Minmatar Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:31:00 - [81] lol posting in an epic thread of fail. Amuses me how much people care about a computer game. Jade I love you man. You're so funny. Honestly I wet myself with your funny little antics and your "LOVEEE MEEEEEE" attitude. Kisses and Hugs
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 21:21:00 - [82] Originally by: RagaDude Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:46:35 Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 16/09/2009 14:39:39 I do belive i made it clear that your surrender terms could not be met. You may of viewed it as diplomatical talks but in my eye it was more of a "I Dmenad This" conversation. Diplomacy his stil regarded high in the books of absinthe. You were unwilling to compramise and i belive that we should not be forced to make a decision from an entity which has nothing to do with faction warfare. Further more our modern era ****** has been found in Jade constantine, and we do not take order from tyrants. If you wish to come back to the table with more reasonable terms i am willing to listen and consider. But as i have said, i made it very very clear that i will not accpet the terms laid out by yourself. I think my translator software needs an update because this reads like gibberish to me. Can anyone else understand it? I ran it through my Amarrtomatariomatic capsule translation software and it comes out something like: "I can't surrender as much as I want to because you asked us to surrender and although you have ruined my corp because you aren't in the TLF its got nothing to do with you. Jade is unkind to us. We'd love some better terms to surrender on btw." I think Jadder got tired of being bished slapped on the forums. You think changing your identity to a minnie dog will save you? your pathetic. We know this is just one of your altered clones you sick wench.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 21:41:00 - [83] Edited by: Havohej on 16/09/2009 21:45:25 Confirming that I, too, am a Jade Constantine alt(ered clone). Not really. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.16 21:51:00 - [84] Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 16/09/2009 21:45:25 Confirming that I, too, am a Jade Constantine alt(ered clone). Not really. You have displayed a level of mental stability and intelligence, and thus, cannot be a Jadder.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.16 22:49:00 - [85] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 16/09/2009 22:51:12 okay we have gotten far a field of the topic here. mindless hate aside the situation seems to be one of the two following: 1. Battlestar Crusader, as CEO of AB-C entered into Diplomacy with Star Fraction and agreed to Star Fraction's standard surrender terms and has since reneged on his diplomatic agreement. Breaking his word and disgracing Honorable secession of hostilities. -or- 2. Battlestar Crusader, as CEO of AB-C entered into Diplomacy with Star Fraction with the intention to break his word and "trick" the Star Fraction into agreeing to accept his Surrender. Breaking his word and disgracing Honorable secession of hostilities. From my opinion it seems to be the first scenario as the most likely. Battlestar (not being able to sell this surrender to his people) has fabricated a complex story about "tricks". Battlestar's contemporary CEOs (Grealyn, Nur AlHuda, Invelious etc...) showing solidarity to their ally has support this "trick" diplomacy. whether this is true though matters not one bit. In either scenario the lack of integrity is displayed by Battlestar and the Integrity of Star Fraction is highlighted. The worth of Battlestar Crusader's word of honor proves to be nothing at all, for what is diplomacy but the official promise of accord? further if this was indeed always intended to be a lie or "joke" all it has done is provide AB-C with about a day of high sec safety and cost Star Fraction less than one ship kill/kit loss. I don't want to believe this to be the case as the mortgaging of AB-C's honor in diplomacy should have been worth more to Battlestar Crusader than a few hours of safety and a couple hundred million isk. Perhaps Severance should reconsider the standings change, if Battlestar can trash his honor so easily what matters then the "apology" he made? you see all a corp has in this cluster is reputation.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.17 03:27:00 - [86] I, too, know about lowered expectations.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.17 11:17:00 - [87] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss In either scenario the lack of integrity is displayed by Battlestar and the Integrity of Star Fraction is highlighted. The worth of Battlestar Crusader's word of honor proves to be nothing at all, for what is diplomacy but the official promise of accord? Not at all mr. Bliss. What has been shown is that Battlestar Crusader has not honored his promise to Star Fraction. This implies that he cannot be trusted to keep his word when dealing diplomatically with Star Fraction. If this means he cannot be trusted to honor is word in diplomacy in general is another topic entirely, and up to the reader here to decide. However, his explanation, and the explanation by others have made it clear that this dishonesty was specifically targeted at Star Fraction partly because of their CEO's predictable desire for making grandiose victory posts. I believe the intention of mr. Battlestar Crusader was too show everyone he could make the Star Fraction CEO jump through hoops at his desire and that the benefit of seeing this outweighed the risks of people not trusting him anymore. I do believe had he performed this diplomatic breach of trust on anyone but Star Fraction, the consequences would be much more severe. However, the reputation of Star Fraction and their CEO has made them a allowable target for shenanigans of this kind ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.17 12:10:00 - [88] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/09/2009 12:11:27 Originally by: Merdaneth What has been shown is that Battlestar Crusader has not honored his promise to Star Fraction. This implies that he cannot be trusted to keep his word when dealing diplomatically with Star Fraction. If this means he cannot be trusted to honor is word in diplomacy in general is another topic entirely, and up to the reader here to decide. Interesting to consider who beyond the Amarrian bloc would actually trust the word of Battlestar Crusader now. I certainly don't see a great deal of support for these actions coming from the gallery (or indeed from within Battlestar's own corporation). Quote: I do believe had he performed this diplomatic breach of trust on anyone but Star Fraction, the consequences would be much more severe. However, the reputation of Star Fraction and their CEO has made them a allowable target for shenanigans of this kind. And yet diplomatic attempts resumed from Battlestar yesterday afternoon in advance of the renewal of wardec. We listened to his new proposals (albeit with a greater degree of cyncism) and learned he still wishes an end to the war and on which terms he seeks it. The specifics of those conversations are covered by diplomatic discretion (which the Star Fraction continues to honour scrupulously) but lets not think for a moment you are correct in your assumption this was all just a ruse. I personally believe that Absinthe are seeking an end to hostilities. I believe that Battlestar may well have intended to keep his word but was forced to break his word by the peer-pressure of his fellow CEO's in the 24th Crusade who (like yourself Merdeneth) believe its okay to tell lies, break faith, and generally act like a dishonourable dog as long as its against a -10 war target. This is a typical tactic for controlling elements of a cult of course. By persuading Battlestar to partake in behaviour that is near -universally condemned outside the cult it ensures its more difficult for the wavering member to leave them at all. And if anyone believes for one minute that this kind of diplomatic vacillation wins respect and acclaim beyond the 24th Crusade they are quite mistaken. Perhaps it might be considered laudable in Goonswarm or something, but amongst other entities that trade on their reputation and name this is not an action designed to further the interests of the corporation in question. Still it speaks a lot for you Merdeneth. In essence you've declared your belief that its okay to break your word to a hated foe. I imagine that means that any suggestion of a formal duel, 1v1, truce or temperary ceasefire for any reason whatsoever proposed by yourself would be a lie and strategem designed to gain advantage for a better backstab right Merdeneth? Your hatred means you justify any petty betrayal for advantage and give yourself up to the animal rage of spiteful and base behaviour. Well, forewarned is forearmed. And since we now see you are prepared to endorse outright lies as "fair tactics" against the Star Fraction there should be no further question about your own lying in any public statement or comment you make on SF matters right? Thank you for being honest about your dishonesty Merdeneth. It makes things quite clear. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.17 13:17:00 - [89] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/09/2009 13:23:04 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/09/2009 13:20:04 Quote: Still it does speak a lot about you Merdeneth. In essence you've declared your belief that its okay to break your word to a hated foe. I imagine that means that any suggestion of a formal duel, 1v1, truce or temperary ceasefire for any reason whatsoever proposed by yourself would be a lie and strategem designed to gain advantage for a better backstab right Merdeneth? Any diplomacy with PIE is meaningless because you wouldn't keep your word anyway because you consider lying to a foe as "right" behaviour to gain IGS "advantage" and kudos from 24th Crusade CEOs. Your hatred means you justify any petty betrayal for advantage and give yourself up to the animal rage of spiteful and base behaviour. Understood loud and clear. Merdaneth is not a PIE diplomat and does not have any authority in that area. Our policy is not as described by you. New Eden can rest assured that PIE upholds its diplomatic agreements and treaty commitments, not matter who they are with. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.17 15:17:00 - [90] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Merdaneth What has been shown is that Battlestar Crusader has not honored his promise to Star Fraction. This implies that he cannot be trusted to keep his word when dealing diplomatically with Star Fraction. If this means he cannot be trusted to honor is word in diplomacy in general is another topic entirely, and up to the reader here to decide. Interesting to consider who beyond the Amarrian bloc would actually trust the word of Battlestar Crusader now. I certainly don't see a great deal of support for these actions coming from the gallery (or indeed from within Battlestar's own corporation). Who says I trusted his word even before this incident? I have some personal experience with Battlestar Crusader, and am able to make educated guesses when to trust him and when not to. Originally by: Jade Constantine I personally believe that Absinthe are seeking an end to hostilities. I believe that Battlestar may well have intended to keep his word but was forced to break his word by the peer-pressure of his fellow CEO's in the 24th Crusade who (like yourself Merdeneth) believe its okay to tell lies, break faith, and generally act like a dishonourable dog as long as its against a -10 war target. I have not spoken to Battlestar during this incident and have no access to diplomatic channels. However, I resent the accusation. I have never lied, acted dishonorably or condoned or supported such behaviour. I was merely explaining to your alliance member how this came about, pointing out that he was overgeneralizing. Originally by: Jade Constantine This is a typical tactic for controlling elements of a cult of course. By persuading Battlestar to partake in behaviour that is near -universally condemned outside the cult it ensures its more difficult for the wavering member to leave them at all. I wouldn't know, I am not a diplomat, am an analyst. Hence my conversations with Battlestar only involve military strategy. You attribute too much influence and power to me. Originally by: Jade Constantine Still it does speak a lot about you Merdeneth. In essence you've declared your belief that its okay to break your word to a hated foe. Ms. Constantine, you fail at reading comprehension. I can understand and explain why a sinner comes to his act of sin, that doesn't mean I condone or approve of it. Let me rephrase: TB: Battlestar broke his word, he cannot be trusted to keep his word! M: He broke his word against SF, he cannot be trusted to keep his word to SF would be a better conclusion M: He probably broke his word because SF (especially its CEO) are universally loathed and breaking your word with them is not seen as particularly bad JC: Ha, you think it is allowed to break your word with hated enemies! M: I'm merely explaining the context to mr. TB and pointing out generalization errors. Quote: Star Fraction will keep its word and honour diplomatic agreements with anyone and everyone. It doesn't matter to us who we are talking to. Even our most hated foe will get the benefit of honoured agreements and sworn word if accord is reached. From the perspective of CEO and Executor of JF and Star Fraction respectively I just can't see any other workable option. MS. Constantine, you do break your word or act with hypocrisy. Just to mention a relevant example: The Cosmopolite promised diplomacy with the Star Fraction will remain absolutely private, yet you and other members are detailing in this thread what happened during the diplomatic overtures with Absinthe. You did this in response to a preceding breach of confidence by your diplomatic partner, true. But let us not forget that SF harassed an Electus Matari diplomat over a similar issue. You don't practice what you preach. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.17 15:57:00 - [91] Originally by: Merdaneth I have not spoken to Battlestar during this incident and have no access to diplomatic channels. However, I resent the accusation. I have never lied, acted dishonorably or condoned or supported such behaviour. I was merely explaining to your alliance member how this came about, pointing out that he was overgeneralizing. I'm somewhat surprised to see you still posting publicly after your reprimand from your corporation diplomat Merdaneth. Still I imagine there is some debate within PIE as to whether the standards that Rodj speaks of has current meaning in the 24th Crusade Context. Your excuses aside, the reality is that you plainly stated that you didn't see the value of dealing honourably with enemies on this thread. This could mean you personally are prepared to lie and cheat and steal and break whatever promises are made if you see it to your advantage to do so - as such I'll take it under advisement and realize that since you are not bound to speak truthfully on any matter involving Star Fraction (and other enemy entity) your IGS posting can be dismissed as falsehood without detailed rebuttal. 3rd Forces in FW - discuss!
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Merdaneth The Cosmopolite promised diplomacy with the Star Fraction will remain absolutely private, yet you and other members are detailing in this thread what happened during the diplomatic overtures with Absinthe. You did this in response to a preceding breach of confidence by your diplomatic partner, true. But let us not forget that SF harassed an Electus Matari diplomat over a similar issue. For the record, Arkady Sadik (the person in question) is not an Electus Matari diplomat. He's an excellent fleet commander and a superb logistician (in all senses of the word). But if you want to talk to the diplomatic squad about the issue, contact Elsebeth Rhiannon or Carinelle Avriette. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.17 19:51:00 - [93] Originally by: Evanda Char For the record, Arkady Sadik (the person in question) is not an Electus Matari diplomat. He's an excellent fleet commander and a superb logistician (in all senses of the word). But if you want to talk to the diplomatic squad about the issue, contact Elsebeth Rhiannon or Carinelle Avriette. This must be a fashionable thread; it's drawn the finest people! "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:05:00 - [94] I'm luffly! But yes, I'm finding this discussion interesting as we've faced similar gambits in the past - people who have been presented with terms for stopping the war, have cracked and surrenders and then tried to start up again with exactly what we agreed they would stop. It's not vastly clever, as it means they cannot surrender again as no-one, especially the people they just messed around, will believe them and those very people, who were crushing them before, are placed in a position where they have no choice but to hunt the recalcitrant to extinction. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:34:00 - [95] Originally by: Rodj Blake Quote: Still it does speak a lot about you Merdeneth. In essence you've declared your belief that its okay to break your word to a hated foe. I imagine that means that any suggestion of a formal duel, 1v1, truce or temperary ceasefire for any reason whatsoever proposed by yourself would be a lie and strategem designed to gain advantage for a better backstab right Merdeneth? Any diplomacy with PIE is meaningless because you wouldn't keep your word anyway because you consider lying to a foe as "right" behaviour to gain IGS "advantage" and kudos from 24th Crusade CEOs. Your hatred means you justify any petty betrayal for advantage and give yourself up to the animal rage of spiteful and base behaviour. Understood loud and clear. Merdaneth is not a PIE diplomat and does not have any authority in that area. Our policy is not as described by you. New Eden can rest assured that PIE upholds its diplomatic agreements and treaty commitments, no matter who they are with. Which was why I have been surprised as Merdaneth defending a breach in diplomacy. IÆd assume from PIEÆs history just like Star Fractions that if an official agreement was made, it would be followed hell-or-high-water. All an alliance has is its word after all. Originally by: Merdaneth TB: Battlestar broke his word, he cannot be trusted to keep his word! M: He broke his word against SF, he cannot be trusted to keep his word to SF would be a better conclusion M: He probably broke his word because SF (especially its CEO) are universally loathed and breaking your word with them is not seen as particularly bad JC: Ha, you think it is allowed to break your word with hated enemies! M: I'm merely explaining the context to mr. TB and pointing out generalization errors. Breaking oneÆs word is less about being ôbadö to the one betrayed and more about the one who is breaking his word betrays his own honor, trust and reputation. It isn't about Jade, its about Battlestar Crusader. That you, a member of PIE, doesnÆt understand the value of loyalty to honor and the word once given is surely a sign of these darkening days of cluster wide war. Is this rust forming on the golden hull?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.18 00:29:00 - [96] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 18/09/2009 00:34:25 Originally by: Merdaneth MS. Constantine, you do break your word or act with hypocrisy. Just to mention a relevant example: The Cosmopolite promised diplomacy with the Star Fraction will remain absolutely private, yet you and other members are detailing in this thread what happened during the diplomatic overtures with Absinthe. You did this in response to a preceding breach of confidence by your diplomatic partner, true. But let us not forget that SF harassed an Electus Matari diplomat over a similar issue. You don't practice what you preach. Alas, for you, I stated in the very thread you reference regarding the Electus Matari that: 'If one party breaks confidence it clearly absolves the other party of its obligation to maintain confidence.' So given, as you yourself say, that Absinthe breached diplomatic confidence in order to make a foolish joke out of our discussions, it is no breach on our part to simply say that we had had talks and during them we stated our standard terms. Indeed, that is all we have confirmed. You suggest we have revealed in lurid detail all that was said by us and, more importantly perhaps, all that was said by Absinthe diplomats in those discussions. Yet we haven't. There really is no need to go into such details. All we say is that the talks took place and we presented our usual terms. Beyond that, we know that Absinthe chose to turn diplomacy into trickery as a means to play a rather flacid practical joke because they chose to hoot about it to their friends and on these channels. There is no hypocrisy here. No breach by us. No failure to 'practice what we preach'. I suppose I have to thank you once more for showing that all your attempts to smear us are based on lies and misrepresentation, together with once more allowing me to demonstrate how inept and simple to dissolve these attempts are. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Onin Ra Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.09.18 14:18:00 - [97] Trolls got trolled. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
Neu Bastian Minmatar Valklear Guard Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.18 16:13:00 - [98] so, they they finally surrender or what? Quote: Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
Snakester Caldari Blood and Money Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.09.19 19:24:00 - [99] Christ, SF still alive?. Sig removed, inappropriate link. ~Saint
Casiella Truza Back Alley Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.20 14:36:00 - [100] Originally by: Neu Bastian so, they they finally surrender or what?[/quote Come on, we all know he's just jerking them around at this point. -- EVE Blog EVE Twitter
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.20 16:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: Neu Bastian so, they they finally surrender or what? Come on, we all know he's just jerking them around at this point. Quite. For the avoidance of doubt, the war has been reinstated and continues pending any relevant developments. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Khanid Voltar Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists	Posted - 2009.10.15 22:36:00 - [102] Originally by: Snakester Christ, SF still alive?. Unfortunately so.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.16 14:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Khanid Voltar Originally by: Snakester Christ, SF still alive?. Unfortunately so. We lack enemies with the capability to change that status. I understand its frustrating but ultimately the failure is your own. Take responsibility for that and you'll find the honesty of the true viewpoint somewhat refreshing. True Knowledge
Vall Kor Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:08:00 - [104] Some are surprised that they went back on their word? You actually thought the Amarr s**would keep his word? They will one learn at the end of our guns! Death to the empire! "By way of deception, thou shalt do war"**
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.16 16:23:00 - [105] Originally by: Vall Kor Some are surprised that they went back on their word? You actually thought the Amarr s***would keep his word? Well the issue here is two fold. 1. Diplomacy requires that (at first) benefit of the doubt has to be extended, for honor and promises are all that diplomacy really is. 2. AB-C, though now obviously a tarnished corporation with no trust or honor to speak of, was in company with corporations like PIE which would* keep their word regardless of to whom it was given. AB-C, Battlestar Crusader, continues to do more damage to the integrity of the 24th Crusade corporations than any enemy could dream of. Catching them in these blatant lies certainly wasnÆt the intention of the diplomacy but what a windfall for the forces in opposition to the 24th crusade to see how juvenile and rank with duplicity this ôleaderö is. All the 24th CrusadeÆs enemies can do is blow up their ships and suppress them into interceptors or station docking bays. Damage to their character can only come from with in.
Theophilas Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.10.17 00:40:00 - [106] It's laughable to think that any loyal pilot of the Amarr empire would enter negotiations with known terrorists in any real capacity. In fact, it's well known within the empire that there is a standing policy of ZERO negotiations with any terrorist organization, doing so would see them standing before a military tribunal in no time at all. In other words, you got exactly what you deserved. -------------------------------------------------- No sooner said than done - so acts your man of worth.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:45:00 - [107] Originally by: Theophilas It's laughable to think that any loyal pilot of the Amarr empire would enter negotiations with known terrorists... clearly you didn't read the thread, Battlestar admits to doing so, I posted an image proving it and then Battlestar admits to lying and breaking his word. Not only did Battlestar not get this "no negotiation" memo but he then further crossed Amarrian reputation by lying about it and breaking his word. Originally by: Theophilas In other words, you got exactly what you deserved. thus speaks another Amarrian who seems to not understand Honor and the Word Once Given. Such rust on the Golden Hull. Very disappointing to one who has seen the quality of Amarrian metal and has to now contend with simpering dishonest curs masquerading as Imperial Warriors.
Theophilas Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.10.17 22:24:00 - [108] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Very disappointing to one who has seen the quality of Amarrian metal and has to now contend with simpering dishonest curs masquerading as Imperial Warriors. You are a terrorist, what about that don't you understand? -------------------------------------------------- No sooner said than done - so acts your man of worth.
Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar The Causality	Posted - 2009.10.17 22:56:00 - [109] Originally by: Theophilas It's laughable to think that any loyal pilot of the Amarr empire would enter negotiations with known terrorists in any real capacity. In fact, it's well known within the empire that there is a standing policy of ZERO negotiations with any terrorist organization, doing so would see them standing before a military tribunal in no time at all. In other words, you got exactly what you deserved. Theo. I hate to shatter your illusions (OK, well maybe I don't) but PIE have negotiated with people they call terrorists, Electus Matari. The organisations have negotiated temporary ceasefires a few times for various reasons. Not full blown peace negotiations I admit, but negotiations nonetheless. Now I have no time for PIE's poltics. But I would hesitate to call them disloyal to the empire. Regards,

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