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Sylph Alliance: A case study in cognitive dissonance

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Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.22 17:36:00 - [1] "only through a series of repeated failures do some learn the true value of their alliance" The have been several internal communiques within Sylph Alliance recently, which have led some Gallente researchers to ponder the uncomfortable position of some within Sylph who outwardly claim competence, but for whom reality regularly strikes down that assertion. Here is an example of one such communique: Quote: Hail Sylph Allaince! This mail is being sent to inform all pilots that where involved in roaming gangs or Home defense that you all did an outstanding job of cleaning our space yesterday. As a long standing sylph fleet member and alliance investor it was nice to see the actions of our pilots joining with our coalition efforts to keep our space clean of reds. All of you who put your pods and ships at risk i must say you did an outstanding job at showing you wont put up with the oppression form our red counterparts in the south. Please continue to be active in fleets and enjoy the kaik we all know and love. Sylph proved that we are still a force to be reconned with and will continue to be so in the future. Great Job Guy and Gals this was a good site to see and the executives all have been talking about the wonderful job the FC's new and old did in the numerous ops that took place. Unfortunately, the pilots within Sylph alliance recognise this not to be the case, as evidenced in the following examples taken from the time of this communique: Combat Example A Combat Example B Combat Example C Combat Example D I would like to show you an example where Sylph alliance have performed well, for the sake of balance. Alas, no such example exists in the records that I have. The result of this uncomfortable cognitive dissonance is an exodus of any pilots and corporations with any trace of self-awareness, and a crumbling and ineffective leadership. Membership has declined from a peak of over 1000, to a mere 400. The once populous and active Sylph alliance is now a drifting husk, of this there can be little doubt. Membership has dwindled, and organised resistance against Ushra'Khan has proven futile and is now at an end. Despite the cushion of the slavers of Providence, this alliance is reaching the only sensible natural conclusion of its evolutionary history. Be assured, we shall not rest, not until we have delivered what we promised Sylph Alliance since their betrayal many years ago. We have not forgotten. We shall not forgive. ---------- AKA 'Bitter Dog' Failing at everything he does in EvE since '05
Exie Phantasmal Collective Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.22 21:25:00 - [2] LOL, I like battle report B... Haagbard is a hostile. LOVE IT!! Of course being a bit delusional is a requirement to fly for Sylph. E... We be Jammin'
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.23 05:02:00 - [3] I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from. If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own. You obviously didn't want that space anyways. This is where you fall down.
Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 06:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Graelyn A derailing and incoherent communication that had nothing to do with the broadcast by Butter Dog However, I am always amused to see how some pilots seems utter incapable of seeing the difference between whiping the floor with ONE enemy entity and taking on the entirety of Providence. Honor binds CVA to protect Sylph no matter how incapable they are. Now back to Sylphs so claimed victorious fleets and battles. If the criteria of a victorious battle is to have 2-3 ships left then by all means Sylph is winning almost every battle. I do wonder what they consider a lost fight...
Codo Yagari Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.23 07:52:00 - [5] We really should start cleaning up HED-GP...
Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 08:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Codo Yagari We really should start cleaning up HED-GP... What does that have to do with Sylph claiming victory in a series of battles with 2-3 ships left and their tail firmly between their legs?
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 08:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Graelyn You obviously didn't want that space anyways. Correct. Maybe you'd like to check where we have claimed space to understand why we wouldn't want IS-R etc. We also know that deploying capitals to push them out their space would simply mean 400-odd pilots from Providence coming along for the fun of blowing them up. Our current strategy means they die anyway, without giving you and yours a chance to destroy our capital assets. Seems to be a good strategy to date. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.23 09:34:00 - [8] I'd just like to echo Graelyn's sentiments. We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space. The question is, how reliable are Butter Dog's assertions? Finding out is easy - one just has to wait. If he's right, then Sylph will be collapsing within the next month or so. If they don't collapse, then Butter Dog and his braying cronies will be revealed as simple blowers of hot air. Once again. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Ombey Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 09:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Rodj Blake We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space. So we have to capture Sylph space to put huge pressure on them? Sylph have shrunk from approximately 1300 members to their current ~430 or so. Of course, we had nothing to do with that at all, as we never uncloak, right? Taking space hastens their demise, but we are in no rush. 2d EveMaps\|My blog
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 09:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space. Amusing. When have we stated that we wish to capture their space? Never, because we don't. What we have clearly stated is that we wish to kill them, and we do not need to capture their space to do that. Rather, we simply need to control their access to Empire and make their 0.0 space a living hell. The results speak for themselves. 800 fewer members. 3 changes of leadership within 3 months. And the destruction of their assets at will. Will they collpase within a month? We make no such arbitrary statements. The road to their destruction has been over two years long. We have the patience to see it through. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc

zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 11:42:00 - [11] In space as on galnet - sylph is not able to defend themself in space as on galnet - their masters feel addressed instead. "you have to take their space, oderwise you havent achieved anything" is a rather naive, if not desperate message and speaks tales about the CVA mindsets itself. From freedom fighters perspective, i just need to evac those who wish to be free - and leave the burden of logistics now, with less workers to do the jobs, to those of sylph. did it never occur to you graelyn et al - that it is a viable strategy to leave the pain of claiming vast amount of space with a skeleton crew and keep everything fuelled with the enemy? i do think this will speed up our succsess rather than the opposite of it. Yeah well.. i was never impressed with the level of education Imperial Academies delivers to Amarr officers.... recruiting -forum
Kura Accipter The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 12:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Graelyn I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from. If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own. You obviously didn't want that space anyways. Sylph will die just fine without us needing to conquer their worthless space, the Graelyn I remember would see that clearly.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 13:39:00 - [13] Whilst I'm relatively sure that at this stage CVA would likely let Sylph die at u'k hand in a full frontal assault, we find it far more amusing to slice them to ribbons one slither of alliance at a time. For a good few weeks now there has been more isk made by u'k ratting in sylph space than by sylph themselves. I think that if CVA wants to remove Sylph they'll have to stop waiting for u'k to do their dirty work so they can take the space back and just get on with their land grab and accept the fact that people will see them as the aggressors (and rightly so!) Sylph alliance, you are clearly not going to be saved by CVA and the fact that you can't defend ANY of your space even with support is embarassing. I can count on one hand the number of pilots withing Sylph that are willing to even try to defend your own space. Even when a provi bloc gang makes the effort to come and defend your space, you sit idly by, hoping others will do the fighting for you. You'd do better looking to sell your space on the quiet to some one at this stage. At least then you'd get something out of it.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 14:08:00 - [14] Quote: With CFHT's departure (and thus presumably kueen1's) what is the new alliance structure and leadership? I don't know if I have missed a meeting but it has been very quiet in terms of info lately. Quote: http://sylph.mmotec.net/killboard/?a=losses Why we have so many losts in empire UK is funny about this and we are lost our faces in this dammed war ! Mates we are a nullsec Alliance and not a highsec Alliance ! Since one need not be surprised if we do not have people in the Fleets and Providence all laughing at us and also we need not wonder, too, that we can not defend our space ! My view of things! **** out I do my best to get my words in english.... helping my brothers in sylph voice there fustration to avoid geting kicked by unfair and opresive rules "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:11:00 - [15] There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members. Quantity does not equal quality. Just look at Ushra'Khan now. Do not assume the end is near for Sylph.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members. Quantity does not equal quality. Just look at Ushra'Khan now. Do not assume the end is near for Sylph. Even at its darkest days, the U'K had effective leadership and fleet commanders, and continued guerrila campaigns from Curse. No sensible pilot would claim the same thing would happen to Sylph if they lost their space. There is no leadership. There is no quality. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Exie Phantasmal Collective Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.23 15:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members. Quantity does not equal quality. Just look at Ushra'Khan now. Do not assume the end is near for Sylph. I would also say that the Ushra'Khan of that day and age was a bit different then they are now, with their "defeat" they were given a new focus that allowed them to survive that membership loss, and to rebuild with a goal and a drive. The alliance name of Sylph "may" live on, however they are going to have to find focus and the balls to kick out the pathetic from their ranks. Which, I think may reduce their number to less than 50. Also, U'K is wanting to drag this on, it is far more fun to watch. They hope the end is not near. E... We be Jammin'
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.23 17:13:00 - [18] Edited by: Graelyn on 23/09/2009 17:14:37 Originally by: Kura Accipter Originally by: Graelyn I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from. If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own. You obviously didn't want that space anyways. Sylph will die just fine without us needing to conquer their worthless space, the Graelyn I remember would see that clearly. Nonsense. Such short sightedness has guided your path for a long time. You see, your current Alliance IS one of MANY who exist as proof against your own theory. Originally by: Admiral Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members. Quantity does not equal quality. Just look at Ushra'Khan now. The ONLY thing that matters is WILL to survive. If it remains intact, then repeatedly wounding the prey without finishing it off is the recipe for creating a monster. If Sylph's will to survive collapses, then your tactics, unwise as they be, will have been successful. If it survives, if you cannot find the strength to land the true killing blow, if you cannot remove the resources that allow them to replenish themselves and their forces, then you will have sown the seeds of your own despair for years to come, and they will have you to thank as the catalyst of evolution. A creature born of nothing but abuse becomes a terror, tough as tungsten, frightening to behold. I can't say for sure that is what will happen with Sylph. They have to possess the sterner stuff, the Will to Endure. But the tactics you employ allow for it, and to consider it a preferable policy, to decide that it is the best path you can take, is folly. I speak from experience. You know full well what the old AM went through, and the fearsome entity those events made them into. They were attacked in ways none else ever were at that time, complete ruin followed by every enemy it ever had falling upon them at once for years at a time. The will to survive became the steel of a sword that sheared our foes into pieces, to the complete disbelief of all, and in the end they were triumphant against ALL who stood against them. I wonder if you still remember any of that before you took tail and ran, removing yet another impurity from the steel... You and I have seen these truths come to fruition even before that, in ancient times past...calculated lessons you seem to have forgotten in favor of aggressive tribal thinking. Your chosen compatriots seem to have rubbed off on you. Directly affecting and destroying the WILL to survive...is an art that I hope remains forever beyond the reach of the Ushra'Khan, for in the end what organisation in their entire history, can they claim to have ever destroyed once and for all? This is where you fall down.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 17:34:00 - [19] Edited by: Sapphrine on 23/09/2009 17:34:51 Sylph's current morale is certainly affected by U'K constantly harassing them. I'm fairly certain we're quite capable of destroying their morale and will to keep going just fine without hitting their tower with dreads in an obvious way that the rest of the bloc could actually help them. We kill Sylph towers just fine when we feel inclined. It is pretty hard to claim that sylph are actually making any money from the huge amount of infrastructure they currently have down as they have very little moon mining left intact and are often barely able to get into their own space let alone rat or mine it for the worth. The fact that Sylph are now more active in empire is telling of the direction this 0.0 entity is going. Owning space does not automatically mean profit. :)
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.23 17:56:00 - [20] As much as I hate to admit it, it seems that for once Ushra'Khan may have a point. Though it is tempting to believe they're blowing smoke, the lack of contradicting evidence (Besides 'not claiming space', as we all know that UK is much better at guerrilla tactics than they are at holding their own space: There's little reason for them to set up operations which can then be taken down by a dedicated prov fleet) seems to indicate that CVA's best course is to simply buy the Sylph Alliance's space from them so that SA can retain some dignity and CVA can gain a little more territory.

Calypso's Wrath Mad Bombers Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 18:28:00 - [21] Pilot: CalypsoÆs Wrath Ship Class: Strategic Loki Class cruiser, The ôLookie here2ö Location: Classified, presumed in his home system of 3kb. After the last week of defending my system (3kb û I know AM thinks they own it, but we know who has control, donÆt we?) from the infestation that is Sylphilis, I am disappointed by the general lack of courage with has been displayed by the locals. Battleships engaging, fighting aligned with shielded warp cores, warping out when the going gets rough (good trick btw, impressive use of close range Battleships, next time fit damage mods instead of so much tank you might get me) I wonder who CVA will put in Sylphs place when this failure is complete.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 19:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Graelyn You see, your current Alliance IS one of MANY who exist as proof against your own theory. Please name all the alliances who have lost all their space and come back stronger. I can only think of two - Red Alliance, and Ushra'Khan. Every other alliance I can think of who has lost all their space either disbanded, or is a shadow of their former self. You somehow think Sylph can survive such a trauma? The truth is they can barely survive an empire wardec and some cloakers in their space. You are either deluded or playing the fool. Which is it? ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.23 19:36:00 - [23] Thank you for your kind words Grr. I imagine that Sylph's allies are getting tired of holding up the dead cat and are looking at how much they would like to take certain stations and constellations if given the nod by the imperial puppetmaster. As for the bizzare assertation that we should focus our efforts into taking meaningless sov in terrible systems in an attrocious strategic position, I'd like to respond with a quote: "Speed is the essence of war".
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.24 01:50:00 - [24] Edited by: Graelyn on 24/09/2009 01:53:29 Originally by: Butter Dog Please name all the alliances who have lost all their space and come back stronger. I can only think of two - Red Alliance, and Ushra'Khan. Fool. You're not taking any of their space! Your members have stated here that they do not intend to do so!! It's the whole point of the discussion! Did you not bother to read your own thread?? Gah, I can't talk to these tribals, it's like attempting discourse with an inbred puppy... This is where you fall down.
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.24 02:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Graelyn Fool. You're not taking any of their space! Your members have stated here that they do not intend to do so!! It's the whole point of the discussion! Did you not bother to read your own thread?? Gah, I can't talk to these tribals, it's like attempting discourse with an inbred puppy... I believe their point is that right now Sylph is likely hemmoraging money, so that eventually SA will fall on it's own fiscal failure.
Kai Zion	Posted - 2009.09.24 02:47:00 - [26] You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn.
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris Ordo Magna	Posted - 2009.09.24 08:11:00 - [27] IÆm afraid some of my brethren are missing the point here. UÆK already made it clear several times that they donÆt intend to hold space anywhere. That is a valid strategy, and the one that makes the most sense for their purposes and considering the resources of the enemies they face. IÆm no participant in this war, but IÆd imagine that this makes them hard to pin down, and difficult to strike against. UÆK is an old alliance that has a lot of history and I wonÆt dishonour myself in attempts to smear them or detract from their successes. That said, and I admit to being a little biased here, I donÆt see how this kind of childish bragging and how these premature victory dances could possibly help a cause. If that is even the intent? If you manage to destroy your foe utterly, and stand on a mountain of their broken bodies, with their banners ripped down from the last base in their last system, I may well fear you one day, Butterdog. But so long as all you do is wound them, return to camp to brag and giggle and then publically make fun about them, you wonÆt impress me and most others in the slightest. In fact, it only works against you. Even an enemy deserves to be honoured more than that. I wouldnÆt even waste my breath here if I dindÆt hold a grudging respect for UshraÆ Khan and the honourable conduct of members such as zoolkhan and Poreuomai, despite being their military and ideological enemy. It is rare for me to know capsuleers by name and reputation in a positive daylight without ever haven met them, and that is a precious thing. Because of that it is disappointing to see that image diminished here in these ôLook how great we are, isnÆt Sylph pathetic?ö threads. The Amarrian seems to be in physically bad health, but dismisses his attendant with a handgesture and struggles to close the link. -----
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.24 09:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Graelyn Fool. You're not taking any of their space! We control their space. They cannot kill sanshas and collect bounties. They cannot mine. They cannot conduct business in empire. We earn more ISK killing sansha in their sovereign territiory than they do. The point we're making is that we do not need to take their sovereignty to control their space. Therefore, we can destroy them without conquering their space in the 'traditional' manner. The results so far speak for themselves. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.24 09:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Kai Zion You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn. No, he's making perfect sense. What use is it to utterly destroy an enemy, if you then allow the vacuum that they leave behind to be filled by another enemy? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.24 09:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Kai Zion You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn. No, he's making perfect sense. What use is it to utterly destroy an enemy, if you then allow the vacuum that they leave behind to be filled by another enemy? Sylph's downfall at this stage is attributable to many factors; lack of leadership, lack of motivation by allies to defend them, the fact they're first up coming from our area of catch so they take the brunt of our attacks, and the lack of general callibre left in sylph pilots to name just a few. I'm fairly certain this new entity would already need to be experienced at holding space to survive long in such a harsh climate which leads me to believe that the only entity that would actually take it is CVA. Since to do so they would have to either buy or evict Sylph from their space, a long standing ally whom they stand by.... i'm quite entertained to sit here and watch whilst shooting any viable targets possible. Then there's the opportunities for theft. Redeployment of towers done right takes so much time and people do love to just try to put them up with a handful of guys and hope no one is watching. I believe our maximum stolen tower in any given week is around 10 large... What's the use in utterly destroying an enemy entity? just that. It is destroyed. Then we move onto the next piece.

Chooch Chooch Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 20:19:00 - [31] Just a little curious folks (no not bi-curious just normal curious) Who is running Sylph right now? Is anyone I mean who is actually supposed to be in charge since I heard it is no longer Kueen1?
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Chooch Chooch Just a little curious folks (no not bi-curious just normal curious) Who is running Sylph right now? Is anyone I mean who is actually supposed to be in charge since I heard it is no longer Kueen1? no one realy knows who is in charge any more "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:54:00 - [33] My guess is lonewolfknight.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.24 22:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Chooch Chooch Just a little curious folks (no not bi-curious just normal curious) Who is running Sylph right now? Is anyone I mean who is actually supposed to be in charge since I heard it is no longer Kueen1? I actually sent a message to a diplomat on just that question last week. Still no answer... My disenfranchised friends within sylph with a perchant for divulging info haven't really got clue either. It seems to be the case that all the corps are just fending for themselves. I assume that CVA have a better idea on who is leading but I doubt they're in the mood to tell me :)
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.24 23:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Jakiin on 24/09/2009 23:11:32 Originally by: Sapphrine I assume that CVA have a better idea on who is leading but I doubt they're in the mood to tell me :) I thought it was the Ushra'Khan position that CVA is leading Sylph.
Lord Makk Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 07:05:00 - [36] Warzon3 has claimed to be the new alliance leader. The Cerbmeister
Vaada	Posted - 2009.09.25 10:26:00 - [37] Edited by: Vaada on 25/09/2009 10:36:09 I'd like to clarify this speculation about Sylph alliance leadership. It is infact myself who is the new leader of Sylph alliance. The departure of Kueen1 was a terrible blow and being a close friend I was deeply saddened. It was however with great pride that I accepted his request and took his place in leading the alliance. We have faced many challenges, losing more than half of our members in the past few months and having our infrastructure torn apart by UK terrorists. However we will prevail. UK are nothing more than griefers. Yes they might kill our fleets but we are still making more money than they ever will. Some members have expressed their dissapointment that I don't fly the Sylph flag in game. I understand it is odd not to be a member of the alliance, but our wars presented too many obstacles which prevented me from leading effectively from our base in empire. Don't think this means I don't live and breathe Sylph UK. We might fade away into a shadow for now but we will come back stronger and richer than ever!! It was a tough decision, but the council has just chosen to support me in a radical move. My first act as the new alliance leader will be to declare war against CVA. It is no secret that they have refused to assist us in military operations against UK as they attack our space. We have been unable to rat and mine for months now. This is not how we expect to be treated by allies, and they have made a grave mistake in thinking we were not worth fighting for. We have shown remarkable progress in fleet tactics, including the introduction of super ranged battlecruisers that can match battleships on the field, not to mention our frigate gang incursions into UK space that have roamed unharmed. In short, It's on CVA. See you in Jita. Vaada, Sylph Alliance Leader
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 10:29:00 - [38] please hurry up so i can fatten my wallet some more with blood "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
shanda captison The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 10:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Vaada CVA will crush them and we can live in peace again. Their fearsome 100 man bomber fleets will indeed be the end of us. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Kura Accipter The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 10:51:00 - [40] Oh if only I had been far sighted enough to stay within the ranks of the Aegis Militia, the fearsome entity that crushed ALL before it, whose name rings out in the stars on the lips of every capsuleer. Such a formidable fighting force whose deeds and valour have brought them fame and respect from all quaters. Ushra'Khan gain in strength and power everyday while Sylph bleeds out and the Aegis Militia suckle at the teat of CVA. Time will tell how short sighted I am, but a quick perusal of our order of battle suggests that you are full of hot air. I suppose somethings never change

Drake Defel	Posted - 2009.09.25 13:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Vaada Edited by: Vaada on 25/09/2009 10:36:09 I'd like to clarify this speculation about Sylph alliance leadership. It is infact myself who is the new leader of Sylph alliance. Vaada, Sylph Alliance Leader Thankyou for these words Vaada, I'm sure we all understand that oftimes leadership need to step back from the fray in order to see the big picture with more clarity. In that light, I would like to take this moment to remind our friends and allies that the ship replacement program donations should be sent either to myself directly or to the out-of-alliance holding corp Dawn Vigil.
TwoTone Wyvern Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.09.25 14:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Kura Accipter Oh if only I had been far sighted enough to stay within the ranks of the Aegis Militia, the fearsome entity that crushed ALL before it, whose name rings out in the stars on the lips of every capsuleer. Such a formidable fighting force whose deeds and valour have brought them fame and respect from all quaters. Ushra'Khan gain in strength and power everyday while Sylph bleeds out and the Aegis Militia suckle at the teat of CVA. Time will tell how short sighted I am, but a quick perusal of our order of battle suggests that you are full of hot air. I suppose somethings never change You know, maybe it's just me, but causing a fairly puny 20% more ISK damage than an opponent doesn't appear to be the greatest basis for mockery. Glass houses and all that.....
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 15:31:00 - [43] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern Originally by: Kura Accipter Oh if only I had been far sighted enough to stay within the ranks of the Aegis Militia, the fearsome entity that crushed ALL before it, whose name rings out in the stars on the lips of every capsuleer. Such a formidable fighting force whose deeds and valour have brought them fame and respect from all quaters. Ushra'Khan gain in strength and power everyday while Sylph bleeds out and the Aegis Militia suckle at the teat of CVA. Time will tell how short sighted I am, but a quick perusal of our order of battle suggests that you are full of hot air. I suppose somethings never change You know, maybe it's just me, but causing a fairly puny 20% more ISK damage than an opponent doesn't appear to be the greatest basis for mockery. Glass houses and all that..... yes flying with allies makes your efficentcy look good "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 15:37:00 - [44] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern [ You know, maybe it's just me, but causing a fairly puny 20% more ISK damage than an opponent doesn't appear to be the greatest basis for mockery. Glass houses and all that..... AM don't fly alone, they fly with ProvidenceBloc. For U'K to attain a positive efficiency in that context is nothing short of miraculous (and shocking) ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Kura Accipter The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 17:01:00 - [45] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern You know, maybe it's just me, but causing a fairly puny 20% more ISK damage than an opponent doesn't appear to be the greatest basis for mockery. Glass houses and all that..... Look deeper into the information provided and the composition of the fleets that AM have 'inflicted' damage upon us with, specifically the ratio of Aegis Militia to Provibloc ships rerpresented. I think that justifies me throwing all the stones I want, thanks for coming.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 17:39:00 - [46] AM are next ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
TwoTone Wyvern Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.09.25 17:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern Originally by: Kura Accipter Oh if only I had been far sighted enough to stay within the ranks of the Aegis Militia, the fearsome entity that crushed ALL before it, whose name rings out in the stars on the lips of every capsuleer. Such a formidable fighting force whose deeds and valour have brought them fame and respect from all quaters. Ushra'Khan gain in strength and power everyday while Sylph bleeds out and the Aegis Militia suckle at the teat of CVA. Time will tell how short sighted I am, but a quick perusal of our order of battle suggests that you are full of hot air. I suppose somethings never change You know, maybe it's just me, but causing a fairly puny 20% more ISK damage than an opponent doesn't appear to be the greatest basis for mockery. Glass houses and all that..... yes flying with allies makes your efficentcy look good So does flying almost nothing except speed fit HACS. You have your tactics, they have theirs. Simple fact is, you have caused a mere 20% more damage to that alliance than they have to you. End of story.
Chooch Chooch Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:40:00 - [48] Originally by: TwoTone WyvernSimple fact is, you have caused a mere 20% more damage to that alliance than they have to you. End of story.[/quote I have to weigh in on this and add my two cents. TwoTone if you said that 4 nonths ago I would agree with you. But since my group and and others have left Sylph it seems from all reports that Uk does in fact own Sylph Space. Sylph is a fractured husk of what it once was. UK can mock all they want and bluster and Banter but under Drakmor and for the last year Sylph was a different self sufficient alliance. Now they are not even a pawn or a pet but an anchor dragging down the provibloc with them. It is too bad to see such a thing but as all things change and people move on so must the ties we have once felt. We all said when carebears rule Sylph as they wanted this would happen, when diplomlomacy became the backseat to me first mentality this would happen. Well the me first carebears took over and all hell broke lose. Shame CFHT could not follow through on what they beleived to be there cause. Oh well as for who the leader of Sylph is I can not remember this warzon3 cat that Lord Makk mentioned probably an alt of someone.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:43:00 - [49] Originally by: Butter Dog AM are next shouldn't you "finish" Slyph first? or I don't know...CVA maybe?
ShadowandLight Amarr Hammer Of Light Aegis Militia	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Butter Dog AM are next I'm waiting...

TwoTone Wyvern Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Chooch Chooch Originally by: TwoTone WyvernSimple fact is, you have caused a mere 20% more damage to that alliance than they have to you. End of story.[/quote I have to weigh in on this and add my two cents. TwoTone if you said that 4 nonths ago I would agree with you. But since my group and and others have left Sylph it seems from all reports that Uk does in fact own Sylph Space. Sylph is a fractured husk of what it once was. UK can mock all they want and bluster and Banter but under Drakmor and for the last year Sylph was a different self sufficient alliance. Now they are not even a pawn or a pet but an anchor dragging down the provibloc with them. It is too bad to see such a thing but as all things change and people move on so must the ties we have once felt. We all said when carebears rule Sylph as they wanted this would happen, when diplomlomacy became the backseat to me first mentality this would happen. Well the me first carebears took over and all hell broke lose. Shame CFHT could not follow through on what they beleived to be there cause. Oh well as for who the leader of Sylph is I can not remember this warzon3 cat that Lord Makk mentioned probably an alt of someone. Oh, don't misunderstand, i was talking about AM, not Sylph. Sylph are downright pathetic.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Originally by: Butter Dog AM are next shouldn't you "finish" Slyph first? or I don't know...CVA maybe? the key word in my transmission is "next", you illiterate buffoon ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Reprimander Failswarm	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:52:00 - [53] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern So does flying almost nothing except speed fit HACS. You have your tactics, they have theirs. Simple fact is, you have caused a mere 20% more damage to that alliance than they have to you. End of story. You clearly have not got the first clue how efficiency actually works with regard to kill records. For U'K to have a positive efficiency against any ProvidenceBloc member is extremely good work on their part.
TwoTone Wyvern Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Reprimander Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern So does flying almost nothing except speed fit HACS. You have your tactics, they have theirs. Simple fact is, you have caused a mere 20% more damage to that alliance than they have to you. End of story. You clearly have not got the first clue how efficiency actually works with regard to kill records. For U'K to have a positive efficiency against any ProvidenceBloc member is extremely good work on their part. No, I know exactly how it works.
Reprimander Failswarm	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:57:00 - [55] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern No, I know exactly how it works. If you did, you would not think that the UK combat record is anything less than extremely impressive. So clearly, you do not. AM could not fight their way out of a paper bag. There isn't a single providence alliance apart from CVA who are match for U'K on the field, and everyone with a working brain knows it.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:36:00 - [56] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 25/09/2009 19:36:38 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Originally by: Butter Dog AM are next shouldn't you "finish" Slyph first? or I don't know...CVA maybe? the key word in my transmission is "next", you illiterate buffoon my point is you should succeed at something first before threatening other targets. My apologies if the subtext was too complex for you.
Pablos Locos	Posted - 2009.09.25 20:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss my point is you should succeed at something first before threatening other targets. My apologies if the subtext was too complex for you. Your own Alliance leader would do well to follow your advice. You are very wise Mr. Bliss despite your complete and utter lack of personal accomplishments. Incoming 15 page SF threadnaught in a thread where the op has nothing to do with SF!!!
Areo Hotah Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.09.25 21:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Butter Dog AM are next May I ask Mr. Dog what his, or UK's, issues are with AM? The current campaign against Sylph is justified by UK based on events about which both sides still argue. No matter how inaccurate it may be, UK believes they have a casus belli on the Sylph Alliance. With AM rooted deep in Providence, and UK paying regular visits to their space, I don't see what will change much in the military side of things. Yet the reasons to aim the propaganda machines at AM seem a bit clouded to me. Please enlighten me.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.25 21:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Pablos Locos You are very wise Mr. Bliss despite your complete and utter lack of personal accomplishments.
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.09.25 22:49:00 - [60] Originally by: Pablos Locos Your own Alliance leader would do well to follow your advice. True. Originally by: Pablos Locos You are very wise Mr. Bliss despite your complete and utter lack of personal accomplishments. False. This is where you fall down.

Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 01:30:00 - [61] Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 26/09/2009 01:31:08 A further update, fresh from the press. During our regular patrolling into enemy territory, in the region of Catch (Sylph-space) today, we found ourselves pitted against overwhelming forces (60+ man gang vs roughly 20) but were able to extricate while taking down a number of hostile ships. That's everyday life for us, however today we observed an astonishing feat on behalf of Sylph. One (1) whole Punisher frigate piloted by a member of Sylph was present in the aforementioned fleet. Yes, one (1) whole frigate, to protect their sovereign systems. I believe this is extremely descriptive of the state Sylph alliance is in now. Don't despair though, I am sure they can fall even further. We'll keep you posted with more of Sylph's failings.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 02:01:00 - [62] Originally by: TwoTone Wyvern Originally by: Reprimander You clearly have not got the first clue how efficiency actually works with regard to kill records. For U'K to have a positive efficiency against any ProvidenceBloc member is extremely good work on their part. No, I know exactly how it works. Statistics are something of a hobby of mine. When facing mixed fleets from seperate alliances (very common for UK facing provibloc) killboards tend to favour the group flying mixed fleets. Killmails count for everyone one them, so a hypothetical fleet of 1 CVA, 1 paxton, 1 lfa, 1 -7-, 1 sylph and 1 fcon meets 6 UK, everyone is killed except the cva guy and 1 uk. UK killboard shows 50% efficiency, cva killboard 100% efficiency. after all, CVA lost no ships and got on 6 killmails. lfa, -7- et al show 80% efficiency, they killed 5 ships and lost 1. We currently average 80% against sylph. draw what conclusions from that you will. but frankly i think killboards are mostly a waste of time.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 02:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Areo Hotah May I ask Mr. Dog what his, or UK's, issues are with AM? Ah, history, if only they still taught it at pod school. Its really quite simple: they are slavers. Not just supporters of slavery, but rabib card holding, slave pen owning, slavers. From the alliance description: A conglomeration of Empire Loyalists and Allies. Currently protecting the interests of the Amarr Empire, through whatever means necessary. And from founding corp description: For God, Empire, and Sarum.
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.26 02:38:00 - [64] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Ah, history, if only they still taught it at pod school. Its really quite simple: they are slavers. Not just supporters of slavery, but rabib card holding, slave pen owning, slavers. From the alliance description: A conglomeration of Empire Loyalists and Allies. Currently protecting the interests of the Amarr Empire, through whatever means necessary. And from founding corp description: For God, Empire, and Sarum. I think the question was actually: Why AM specifically as opposed to any other Provi Bloc member?
TwoTone Wyvern Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.09.26 07:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Xennith We currently average 80% against sylph. draw what conclusions from that you will. but frankly i think killboards are mostly a waste of time. Now this we can certainly agree on :) Originally by: Jakiin I think the question was actually: Why AM specifically as opposed to any other Provi Bloc member? U'K and AM's history goes back far longer than Providence being taken by CVA. They've never exactly been what you would call best buddies..... For the record, I feel I should state that despite my earlier posts, I think U'K do excellent work, and that AM are certainly not their equal. I just wanted to point out the utter idiocy of using a killboard of any sort of evidence of success.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 09:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Areo Hotah With AM rooted deep in Providence, and UK paying regular visits to their space, I don't see what will change much in the military side of things. Yet the reasons to aim the propaganda machines at AM seem a bit clouded to me. Please enlighten me. There is a very real difference between roaming through their space sometimes, and a focused presence in every AM system for months on end, the likes of which Sylph understand. No asteroid belt, no stargate, no station, no jump bridge, no empire route will be free from our prying eyes. Economic activity will shut down. Demoralised pilots will flee to 'safer' grounds. Corporations will leave. Leadership shall bicker. Their time will come, it is up to them to pass the test, or go the way of Sylph Alliance. But I digress, there is work to be done. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 10:31:00 - [67] Edited by: zoolkhan on 26/09/2009 10:35:01 ..casually the brutor took a seat near the massive wooden desk in the pub also known as deck 23. the bar was empty, obviously it was before opening time .. everything was relatively clean and the broken furniture from last night has been replaced by a new set. zool played with the datapad and eventually activated the neural receiver in order to complete todays combat log entries, and while at it - complete the order for restocking the bar with jovian ale, french wine and thukker brew, often confused with ancient vodka. a single sentence in a rarely spoken dialect appeared on the screen of his datapad: Log Entry #00019938 "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall" "Sch3isse" zool cursed.. switched off the neural reception and typed in the words someone would expect on a liquer order. recruiting -forum
Valotaan Caldari Black Templar Germany Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.26 18:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Tagami Wasp Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 26/09/2009 01:31:08 A further update, fresh from the press. During our regular patrolling into enemy territory, in the region of Catch (Sylph-space) today, we found ourselves pitted against overwhelming forces (60+ man gang vs roughly 20) but were able to extricate while taking down a number of hostile ships. That's everyday life for us, however today we observed an astonishing feat on behalf of Sylph. One (1) whole Punisher frigate piloted by a member of Sylph was present in the aforementioned fleet. Yes, one (1) whole frigate, to protect their sovereign systems. I believe this is extremely descriptive of the state Sylph alliance is in now. Don't despair though, I am sure they can fall even further. We'll keep you posted with more of Sylph's failings. How do you count sylph ships? 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ships = 1 frig Next time you should at least take all ships people can see on your killboard.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 20:40:00 - [69] My mistake. You are right. After perusing battle reports, we found out that there were another 3 Sylph pilots in the 60 man Providence fleet. They were flying: Hurricane, Drake and Dominix (heavy ECM drones?) Well, for the 500 members you have dear Sylphs, you sure are stepping up. During our time in Curse Ushra'Khan would get in 10 man fleets and come hit you in your backyard. That's why we survived and we will overcome you. As long as you keep hiding in CVA's skirts, you are destined to die.
Valotaan Caldari Black Templar Germany Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.26 21:00:00 - [70] 3 is still not right, but much better :-) And then count the pilots who are not on any killmails because you were running to fast.

Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 21:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Valotaan 3 is still not right, but much better :-) And then count the pilots who are not on any killmails because you were running to fast. Are you trying to suggest that your defence of your space with less than 10 pilots is some kind of achievement? Face facts. Your alliance is useless, and dying. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.26 21:45:00 - [72] Edited by: Jakiin on 26/09/2009 21:46:26 Edited by: Jakiin on 26/09/2009 21:45:26 Originally by: Butter Dog Are you trying to suggest that your defence of your space with less than 10 pilots is some kind of achievement? Face facts. Your alliance is useless, and dying. Start recounting them correctly, and I'm sure facing facts would become much easier. True Sylph might be on it's last legs, but posturing and preening and distorting facts to a degree that it makes you either liars or incompetent hardly makes your own side look any better. "Only one frigate!" "Wait, I read our own killboard, and it was one frigate plus two battlecruisers and a battleship." "Well okay it was 9 total ships, but that's still pathetic." Here's a tip: Unbiased parties are more likely to agree with you if you give correct information the first time, rather than when someone else points out the discrepencies later on. Yes, unbiased parties matter. Because you're not going to convince the enemy that you're right and while preaching to the choir does make you feel good, it does nothing to help swell your ranks. If you want to gain enough support to actually win against the Providence Bloc, you're going to need to convince those whose only interest is filling the resultant power void that you're good enough to win if backed. As it is, all they see is an alliance which does more posturing on the forums than their 'arrogant' enemies. Doubtless a bunch of U'K members are going to tell me how I and everything I stand for remove my ability to voice an opinion. As I've found arguing with Freedom Fighters is an even better brick wall simulation than the Ultra-Conservative Holders I also find myself at odds with, I'm just going to wish the their ignorance shall be swept away in the light of the Lord, and leave it at that.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.26 23:37:00 - [73] Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 26/09/2009 23:37:53 Originally by: Jakiin Doubtless a bunch of U'K members are going to tell me how I and everything I stand for remove my ability to voice an opinion. As I've found arguing with Freedom Fighters is an even better brick wall simulation than the Ultra-Conservative Holders I also find myself at odds with, I'm just going to wish the their ignorance shall be swept away in the light of the Lord, and leave it at that. Who are you mister Amarrian? Do you fly for Providence Slavers? Do you oppose them? Speak plainly. Were you out there where we were fighting? I'll give you unbiased information and shove it down your throat with my weapons if I find you against me. Like it or not, I chose to fight for a cause and against Amarr and CVA. Where do you stand? There is a line in the sand, cross it or don't, but state your business and I'll take care of mine.If you wanna have some semblance of "face" remaining, come clear and say where you stand. As for my info, I was on a jumpgate in Sylph territory. There were 60 Providence pilots reported in the system. Out of those that were identified, only one was a Sylph pilot, verified in a Punisher frigate. After that fleet chased us around about half an hour and after trying to come at us from two different sides, they were able to engage us, a couple systems over, and there those 3 Sylph pilots I mention were encountered. This is still pathetic. To have a roaming force of Ushra'Khan in your sovereign systems for over an hour and even after they have been engaged to only contribute so little to the fleet protecting your territory, is the outer failure that is characteristic of Sylph. But will disagree with the rest of my alliance. I don't really want them dead. They serve better as a punching bag, training our fresh warriors. Since we have so many more to train, I say we keep punching this barely breathing carcass till our fists are bathed in their blood. When however, they gasp their last breath, we'll raise those bloody fists and our battle cry will be heard: WE COME FOR OUR PEOPLE!!!! And if you are wondering how is a Caldari able to raise that cry, consider this, I find Amarrian society a blight on everything we, as sentient beings, represent, a blight to be cleansed, by blood and fire.
progodlegend	Posted - 2009.09.28 05:55:00 - [74] Originally by: Reprimander There isn't a single providence alliance apart from CVA who are match for U'K on the field, and everyone with a working brain knows it. Lulz
Spyra Gryra Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2009.09.28 07:02:00 - [75] Once the gaze of Mr Dog is upon you, there is no escape. Yet you dare enter his realm? Your reckoning is now at hand! My corp and alliance are the very best pvpers in the entire history of video games.
Dimebag Delia	Posted - 2009.09.28 09:40:00 - [76] Originally by: Reprimander AM could not fight their way out of a paper bag. There isn't a single providence alliance apart from CVA who are match for U'K on the field, and everyone with a working brain knows it. Hard not to agree with you regarding AM, but the rest is a stretch. Would guess either -7- or Cold Steel could manage UK solo. Paxton might suffer for lack of competent FCs, so let's call that one a draw. Reality is, UK is very much a mirror image of the Proviblob due to their similarly loose recruiting standards. They possess a small handful of competent FCs, a fair number of decent combat pilots, and a mass of mediocrity filling out the majority. Would guess UK leadership would silently concede that to be the case. Regarding Sylph, the truth is they've alienated countless pilots in Providence with their selfish policies, broken deals, rude behavior in local, and absolute inability to field a competent force in defense of their space. They operate with special rules applying to their space, which do not obtain in the rest of Providence, yet must beg for aid from the same allies they routinely order out of their belts. I do not know CVA leadership's stand on the issue, but I can tell you for certain that most Providence holders have no love for Sylph, and would happily watch them collapse. It's been a long time (more than a year) since Sylph was an aid to Providence. They are the lolKIA to CVA's Goonswarm. Kill 'em already.
Kretin Arnon Amarr Path of the Immortals	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:26:00 - [77] Wow, another claim of victory even though the war isn't over. Surprising how common those claims are these days. A Sani Sabik saying goes: "You haven't won the battle if by the end of it your enemy still stands." +--------------------------+ For now I sleep and watch
Salron Starcrush	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:29:00 - [78] U'K seemed to have blobbed themselves up with, judging from recent KB activity, with the new sourthern power bloc consisting of -A-/Atlas/ROL/Init/Tri/Sys-C/CoW/Dice and some others. Is the focus of U'K being shifted away from Sylph now then, to assist their new allies? Also an interesting development seeing them flying with such formiable alliances/corps.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Dimebag Delia They possess a small handful of competent FCs, a fair number of decent combat pilots, and a mass of mediocrity filling out the majority. UK dont have the advantage of numbers in most fights that we go into, our pilots learn very quickly to up their game or die repeatedly. While every alliance has idiots who can barely tell one end of a warp disruptor from the other, ours tend to get frustrated and leave quite quickly instead of sitting in a belt making money.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:42:00 - [80] Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 28/09/2009 10:42:14 Originally by: Salron Starcrush U'K seemed to have blobbed themselves up with, judging from recent KB activity, with the new sourthern power bloc consisting of -A-/Atlas/ROL/Init/Tri/Sys-C/CoW/Dice and some others. Is the focus of U'K being shifted away from Sylph now then, to assist their new allies? UK indeed has affairs other than the harassing of Providence merchants and industrialists (as CVA has affairs other than dealing with Ushra'Khan incursions) and, correct me if I'm wrong, has earned a position among the Great Southern Coalition as an esteemed reconnaissance force.

Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Salron Starcrush U'K seemed to have blobbed themselves up with, judging from recent KB activity, with the new sourthern power bloc consisting of -A-/Atlas/ROL/Init/Tri/Sys-C/CoW/Dice and some others. Is the focus of U'K being shifted away from Sylph now then, to assist their new allies? Also an interesting development seeing them flying with such formiable alliances/corps. We have been allied with AAA since leaving Curse about a year ago when they graciously granted us the usage of one of their stations as a base. Helping your friends is very important, but killing your enemies is also equally vital. The two are not mutually exclusive, for example there was a recent kill of a major sylph asset that wouldnt have been anywhere near as neat without the support of our friends in AAA, sylph remain wardecced and interdiction in their space continues. We are still pursiung the death of Sylph alliance, but on our terms and occassionally we have other things that need doing. In regards to your last point, I am proud to be part of UK and the last year and a half has been an amazing journey watching our alliance grow and prosper, the Ushra'Khan of today is far stronger than we have ever been.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 11:18:00 - [82] Originally by: Dimebag Delia Would guess either -7- or Cold Steel could manage UK solo. That's a pretty inaccurate statement. Those alliances have less cap ships than my lone corp, never mind a serious lack of competent FC's. There is also the fact that U'K can field much larger fleets than those entities alone. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it. But they know that U'K attract a more experienced, more skilled combat pilot - it is the nature of our alliance and our existence (until recently, U'K existed only for combat, and held no space). I think we are all slightly paranoid (in a healthy way) about recruiting pilots who live only for sansha hunting rather than true combat. It is those pilots who bloat the Providence holders and cause them to be ineffectual on the field of combat. We have no wish to go the way of Cold Steel, -7-, etc - ineffectual sansha hunting alliances who's response to threat is simply a mass of numbers. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.09.28 11:59:00 - [83] Originally by: Butter Dog ...I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it... What are you suggesting? A pitched battle with the loser withdrawing from Providence or abandoning slavery? Or maybe just giving mad props for the winners fighting skills here on IGS, then returning to their stations and carrying on as before? --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:25:00 - [84] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Dimebag Delia Would guess either -7- or Cold Steel could manage UK solo. That's a pretty inaccurate statement. Those alliances have less cap ships than my lone corp, never mind a serious lack of competent FC's. There is also the fact that U'K can field much larger fleets than those entities alone. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it. But they know that U'K attract a more experienced, more skilled combat pilot - it is the nature of our alliance and our existence (until recently, U'K existed only for combat, and held no space). I think we are all slightly paranoid (in a healthy way) about recruiting pilots who live only for sansha hunting rather than true combat. It is those pilots who bloat the Providence holders and cause them to be ineffectual on the field of combat. We have no wish to go the way of Cold Steel, -7-, etc - ineffectual sansha hunting alliances who's response to threat is simply a mass of numbers. If you were Amarrian you might understand that the solution to most problems is overwhelming force. Why kill a single ant with a magnifying glass when you can crush the nest with a small grenade? But there's the thing, no Providence holder will ever have to face a serious threat alone. We have Unity.
Forty Three Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Grr But there's the thing, no Providence holder will ever have to face a serious threat alone. We have Unity. Of course, this depends heavily on who you call a holder. When an entity can't pull its weight anymore, they will simply cease to be 'holders'. It's very easy to stick to your word when you can change the parameters at will, don't you think? ----------------------------------------------- UNITY!!!
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:42:00 - [86] Originally by: Grr But there's the thing, no Providence holder will ever have to face a serious threat alone. Yes, you are right, however I think it's important to draw a line between the GalNet posturing and the reality of certain entities ability. My challenge exists to those holders who would publicly doubt us, but will not back their words up with the acceptance of such a challenge. I understand this. But regardless, the challenge does stand to be accepted if a holder wished to test themselves. CVA have my respect as an entity who is competent on the field of battle. I consider some of your pilots our equal on the field. You do not need the meatshield of your holders when fighting us, yet you choose to bring them regardless. That is your choice but, my slaver friend, it is not the way to demonstrate your strength. Your holders will not truly develop into competent fighting forces unless they are 'cut loose' and learn to stand on their own feet. The culture of dependency is not the panacea you seem to think. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Spyra Gryra Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2009.09.28 13:37:00 - [87] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Grr But there's the thing, no Providence holder will ever have to face a serious threat alone. Yes, you are right, however I think it's important to draw a line between the GalNet posturing and the reality of certain entities ability. My challenge exists to those holders who would publicly doubt us, but will not back their words up with the acceptance of such a challenge. I understand this. But regardless, the challenge does stand to be accepted if a holder wished to test themselves. CVA have my respect as an entity who is competent on the field of battle. I consider some of your pilots our equal on the field. You do not need the meatshield of your holders when fighting us, yet you choose to bring them regardless. That is your choice but, my slaver friend, it is not the way to demonstrate your strength. Your holders will not truly develop into competent fighting forces unless they are 'cut loose' and learn to stand on their own feet. The culture of dependency is not the panacea you seem to think. Even though the only way you know how to fight is behind 100's of pilots, I could single-handedly destroy your corp if I wanted to. Do you dare enter my realm Mr Dog? When the planets of Gush'nuuk align, Mr Dog, I will be waiting, I will be ready. Can you look deep inside yourself and say the same? My corp and alliance are the very best pvpers in the entire history of video games.
shanda captison The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 14:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 28/09/2009 10:42:14 Originally by: Salron Starcrush U'K seemed to have blobbed themselves up with, judging from recent KB activity, with the new sourthern power bloc consisting of -A-/Atlas/ROL/Init/Tri/Sys-C/CoW/Dice and some others. Is the focus of U'K being shifted away from Sylph now then, to assist their new allies? UK indeed has affairs other than the harassing of Providence merchants and industrialists (as CVA has affairs other than dealing with Ushra'Khan incursions) and, correct me if I'm wrong, has earned a position among the Great Southern Coalition as an esteemed reconnaissance force. We will not go into details as to how to operate with our allies, only that we fight alongside them, against our common enemies, with the same aggression and determination then we do against Providence residents. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.28 14:35:00 - [89] Originally by: Spyra Gryra Even though the only way you know how to fight is behind 100's of pilots This is the first time in a long while that I've seen Ushra'Khan or butterdog in particular accused of refusing to fight unless in a big blob. Given that we have a reputation for skirmish warfare, how exactly did you arrive at this rather entertaining conclusion?
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.28 18:01:00 - [90] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 28/09/2009 18:01:57 Quote: Usually Kloacked Quote: Even though the only way you know how to fight is behind 100's of pilots Wow the UK guys canÆt win. Come on now, there is plenty to argue in the way of UKÆs tactics, pilots of UK themselves do so. But you canÆt say they never fight and then claim they always fight in blobs. It is hyperbolic.

progodlegend 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.29 07:26:00 - [91] Originally by: Butter Dog I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it. I was unaware of this open challenge, but out of curosity, what kind of fight are you even talking about, a 20 on 20 man fleet, 30 on 30, 40 on 40 etc.?
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 09:24:00 - [92] Originally by: progodlegend I was unaware of this open challenge, but out of curosity, what kind of fight are you even talking about, a 20 on 20 man fleet, 30 on 30, 40 on 40 etc.? You temporarily remove yourself from the ProvidenceBloc, that means no more shared channels or joined fleets, and with the open agreement of no interference from the other holders and CVA (this would have to be confirmed by them publically, as a matter of honour), Ushra'Khan will then assault your space. If you lose, you are evicted and can say goodbye to 0.0 life (and likely CVA will just install another holder, but we'll enjoy ourselves, so who cares). If you win, you get to keep your space. Let's call it an 'Alliance 1v1'. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Sirius A StarFleet Enterprises Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.29 10:28:00 - [93] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: progodlegend I was unaware of this open challenge, but out of curosity, what kind of fight are you even talking about, a 20 on 20 man fleet, 30 on 30, 40 on 40 etc.? You temporarily remove yourself from the ProvidenceBloc, that means no more shared channels or joined fleets, and with the open agreement of no interference from the other holders and CVA (this would have to be confirmed by them publically, as a matter of honour), Ushra'Khan will then assault your space. If you lose, you are evicted and can say goodbye to 0.0 life (and likely CVA will just install another holder, but we'll enjoy ourselves, so who cares). If you win, you get to keep your space. Let's call it an 'Alliance 1v1'. You would like that wouldn't you...lol "I am expendable"
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.29 10:28:00 - [94] Originally by: Butter Dog You temporarily remove yourself from the ProvidenceBloc, that means no more shared channels or joined fleets, and with the open agreement of no interference from the other holders and CVA (this would have to be confirmed by them publically, as a matter of honour), Ushra'Khan will then assault your space. If you lose, you are evicted and can say goodbye to 0.0 life (and likely CVA will just install another holder, but we'll enjoy ourselves, so who cares). If you win, you get to keep your space. Let's call it an 'Alliance 1v1'. So basically "You lose and you lose everything, you win and we give you props." Well, I can't even imagine why that challenge has yet to be taken. It's ridiculous and obviously only exists so as not to be taken: This way UK can further boost it's own ego by claiming it's just because they're so good, instead of because there's absolutely nothing to gain by someone else taking it. I am in awe of your cunning.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.29 11:02:00 - [95] Originally by: Jakiin So basically "You lose and you lose everything, you win and we give you props." I saw no promise of "props" in that deal.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 11:32:00 - [96] Edited by: Butter Dog on 29/09/2009 11:35:33 You have greater numbers in your alliance and all the advantages of defensive structures like POS, Jump Bridges, and Cynojammers. Not to mention basing in your home space for ease of logistics. If you won't accept the challenge, it's not because the challenge is unfair - it's because you are weak. Also - this challenge stands in reverse too. If you would like to try to assault our space without the interference of our allies on a 'Alliance 1v1' basis, we would gladly accept, on the same terms. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.29 11:48:00 - [97] Butters, you fail to grasp the Deliverance project. We are in Providence to develop the region, not to accomodate the whims of terrorists and criminals.
Kura Accipter The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 12:47:00 - [98] Originally by: Sirius A You would like that wouldn't you...lol Yes, because we'd win. Seems like you agree with me too.
Sirius A StarFleet Enterprises Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.29 13:29:00 - [99] Originally by: Kura Accipter Originally by: Sirius A You would like that wouldn't you...lol Yes, because we'd win. Seems like you agree with me too. lol "I am expendable"
Flashh Gorden Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2009.09.29 15:51:00 - [100] Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 29/09/2009 15:51:59 Providance is a unique place in the univirse where not only is there some law an order but complete strangers exchange greetings as they go about there daily business. Its populated by mature people. Considering you wish to destroy this little utopia its not suprising the local residents stand side by side to stop you.

Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 17:35:00 - [101] Edited by: Butter Dog on 29/09/2009 17:35:03 Originally by: Niding Butters, you fail to grasp the Deliverance project. We are in Providence to develop the region, not to accomodate the whims of terrorists and criminals. I understand the deliverance project perfectly well. I am simply offering a challenge to silence the mouths of your holders who would doubt our strength and resolve. There is no holder our equal. Although, I will say, the CVA themselves are of course a competent fighting force. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Chooch Chooch Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.09.29 18:03:00 - [102] Excuse me while I check in on this cause all of this testosterone is I am sure making MYLADYOFFIRE (new head of Sylph as I have found out) quite randy I am sure. I pose a question Butterdog you of the Ushra'khan warriors. Now that you have space, Is Sylph or CVA or the Provibloc coming in and cloaking up in your systems and disrupting and terrorizing you way of life? Have they taken the offensive against you in any way? Are they bubbling you in or locking you in your systems like a jump bridge prison, disrupting your very way of like and attacking towers and outpost structure? To CAV PROVIBLOC AND SYLPH. Why the hell arent you? or are you just running on the defense as usual allowing UK to dictate the terms of your battles. From what i am observing on the outside all the boasts of we dont want space you dont have space for us to attack or disrupt seems to be mute. Ushra'Khan now has space it is time Sylphilous (to me they are not Sylph) puts there blaster where there mouth is and do unto others as they have done unto them. or just pack up and hand over there space to someone who is willing to OWN it and not just occupy it. End result and i need to shower after this cause I suddenly feel dirty Ushra'Khan WIIINNNNNS THEEEEEE USHRA'KHAN WINS!!!!!!!!!
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.29 18:05:00 - [103] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 29/09/2009 18:06:55 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: progodlegend I was unaware of this open challenge, but out of curosity, what kind of fight are you even talking about, a 20 on 20 man fleet, 30 on 30, 40 on 40 etc.? You temporarily remove yourself from the ProvidenceBloc, that means no more shared channels or joined fleets, and with the open agreement of no interference from the other holders and CVA (this would have to be confirmed by them publically, as a matter of honour), Ushra'Khan will then assault your space. If you lose, you are evicted and can say goodbye to 0.0 life (and likely CVA will just install another holder, but we'll enjoy ourselves, so who cares). If you win, you get to keep your space. Let's call it an 'Alliance 1v1'. that doesn't make any sense, why would anyone forsake hard won allies to make things easier for ones enemies? Butter Dog, you want them to die then take them out. If you can't do it then aim for something in your ability to do.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 19:00:00 - [104] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss that doesn't make any sense, why would anyone forsake hard won allies to make things easier for ones enemies? Butter Dog, you want them to die then take them out. If you can't do it then aim for something in your ability to do. Look, it's really very simple. It's called 'making a point'. Some Providence holders claim they could match U'K combat ability. I refute that, and they claim I am wrong. So, I offer a challenge to any holder who thinks this - an offer for them to put their money where their GalNet posturing is. To prove what they claim. Unsurprisingly, no holder has accepted the challenge. We all know the reason for this - every holder knows that U'K would crush them if they tried to stand alone. I'm afraid that no holder can claim to have strength, all the time they hide under the skirt of the CVA when something a little scary looks their way. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
progodlegend 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.29 19:49:00 - [105] Edited by: progodlegend on 29/09/2009 19:50:55 Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 29/09/2009 11:35:33 You have greater numbers in your alliance and all the advantages of defensive structures like POS, Jump Bridges, and Cynojammers. Not to mention basing in your home space for ease of logistics. If you won't accept the challenge, it's not because the challenge is unfair - it's because you are weak. Also - this challenge stands in reverse too. If you would like to try to assault our space without the interference of our allies on a 'Alliance 1v1' basis, we would gladly accept, on the same terms. Hmm interesting. Worth thinking about. And Butter Dog is right, since there has never been a time where a Uk fleet has been able to engage just one of the provi alliances (except maybe CVA) there is no true way to know. Although, I have seen battles where holders have matched numbers.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.29 21:42:00 - [106] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss that doesn't make any sense, why would anyone forsake hard won allies to make things easier for ones enemies? Butter Dog, you want them to die then take them out. If you can't do it then aim for something in your ability to do. Look, it's really very simple. It's called 'making a point'. Some Providence holders claim they could match U'K combat ability. I refute that, and they claim I am wrong. So, I offer a challenge to any holder who thinks this - an offer for them to put their money where their GalNet posturing is. To prove what they claim. Unsurprisingly, no holder has accepted the challenge. We all know the reason for this - every holder knows that U'K would crush them if they tried to stand alone. I'm afraid that no holder can claim to have strength, all the time they hide under the skirt of the CVA when something a little scary looks their way. Fair enough. though I thought a major point of the Deliverance Project was to bring together vast numbers to make mutual protection a reality. Nothing to be ashamed of, indeed it seems to be a success? besides any Holder who did accept the challenge is an idiot, everyone knows UK have some very skills commanders and pilots and in general the holders are not know for their specific combat acumen. Which makes them even smarter for working together to out power enemies they can't match in technology or experience.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.29 21:48:00 - [107] Yes, you are right, numbers alone are a valid tactic, and they do indeed work in some circumstances. There is a critical mass above which individual pilot skill hardly matters. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.09.30 00:21:00 - [108] I will not deny that U'K is skilled, man to man they are quite good at what they do, even if what they do is in itself quite mindless and destructive. However, consider a scenario. A small, incompetent man challenges a much larger, stronger man to a fight one on one, instead of the small man against the large man and his allies, as is usually the case. The deal is simple: The large man says he can beat the small man one on one. The small man says that he can't. So they should fight, and if the small man wins then the large man goes away and never returns to the bar he and his buddies drink at again. If the small man loses, the large man doesn't have to leave. The large man (Assuming he had a brain) would never take this deal. Why? Because no matter how small the possibility of him losing, if he loses he loses everything and if he wins he gains nothing. This scenario does not represent the current situation. It is in fact two tough men, the challenger at least equally and likely more skilled than the challenged. The challenged has a good chance of losing, and if so will lose hard. He has no incentive to agree to the fight, other than to prove a point. Proving a point is an ego thing. As such, if the challenger wants the man to view gaining an ego boost then the challenger should offer only losing some respect as the loss. To put it more simply: If Ushra'Khan wishes to fight someone on those terms, then they should make it just that: A fight, not a war. Schedule fleet battles, and the winner gets credit as being the superior combatant while the loser is known to all as using their mouth more than their guns. Since Ushra'Khan is so confident in winning, these terms should be totally acceptabl. That they're not insinuates it to be indicative of soemthing.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 01:39:00 - [109] Yes, it insinuates that although you talk hard, you're soft and just scared to fight alone. As long as you can hide behind CVA you'll talk big and do nothing. The challenge was made. Accept it or just say what is in everybody's mind: You are afraid to go on 1 vs 1 against U'K, knowing full well that you are not a match for our warriors. Alone you will crumble, just concede to the truth. Anyway, except for CVA, I wouldn't trust any of the Holders to keep their word and not just ask for Provibloc support, even in a prearranged fight. Cowards never step up to a challenge if they can't make sure the numbers are on their side. In your case, that means at least 4 to 1 vs U'K.
progodlegend 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.30 06:37:00 - [110] Edited by: progodlegend on 30/09/2009 06:37:17 I was also unaware of this fear of Uk you are talking about, but once again I can not judge because there has never been an alternative to the current circumstances. However the previous poster is right, the current deal of: If you lose, you get evicted from your space If you win, you get to return to the same conditions for you agreed to the deal, therefore gaining nothing. Is not a very good offer. Come on, what does Uk have to offer to sweeten the deal? Butm yes I am aware you made the same offer on your space, which I find interesting and must admit that is tempting. But once again have to ask, what the conditions of such a victory would be, do we have to take over a system? all the systems? some systems? just stations? In the mean time, I see no reason why not to have scheduled fights, even if they are just for fun. No reason you can't drop all that **** talk and agree to a scheduled fight for a fun and constructive fight on both sides win or lose.

Corion Azrea Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:54:00 - [111] Originally by: Tagami Wasp Yes, it insinuates that although you talk hard, you're soft and just scared to fight alone. As long as you can hide behind CVA you'll talk big and do nothing. The challenge was made. Accept it or just say what is in everybody's mind: You are afraid to go on 1 vs 1 against U'K, knowing full well that you are not a match for our warriors. Alone you will crumble, just concede to the truth. Anyway, except for CVA, I wouldn't trust any of the Holders to keep their word and not just ask for Provibloc support, even in a prearranged fight. Cowards never step up to a challenge if they can't make sure the numbers are on their side. In your case, that means at least 4 to 1 vs U'K. Is it reasonable to come into someone's home, attack their ratters (honorable combat indeed), and expect an "equal" response force? As they say, if you find yourself in a fair fight then someone did something wrong. We see, and expect, no different when roaming HED-GP, F4R, or other hostile space. "Fair fights" are a luxury in eve, not the standard. Don't get me wrong, I get much more enjoyment from even/close fights. I am merely stating the nature of the Providence area The 4v1 thing is thrown around so much, but surely you can admit that holders do engage on equal or at the very least "non-blobby" terms daily. The UQ-PWD RR BS fight comes to mind. Yes we had more numbers - mostly interceptors and frigates - but we jumped into your formation and you had a Damnation providing gang link bonuses.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.09.30 11:08:00 - [112] Amarr have gladitorial contests for money, using slaves as they would fighting dogs. A Brutor fights for honour and puts their own life on the line. Attempting to shame Amarrians and their ilk into acting like Brutors is rather nanve, and does Ushra'Khan no credit. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 12:02:00 - [113] Originally by: progodlegend Come on, what does Uk have to offer to sweeten the deal? But, yes I am aware you made the same offer on your space, which I find interesting and must admit that is tempting. But once again have to ask, what the conditions of such a victory would be, do we have to take over a system? all the systems? some systems? just stations? Talking about the assualt on our space: we'll request that -A- and other allies don't get involved. Just you and us, no outside help on either side. You win by capturing our two stations and driving us out. And we shall hand the space back to -A- in these circumstances, since we would not be worthy of holding space we cannot defend from one holder alliance. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Sirius A StarFleet Enterprises Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.09.30 13:21:00 - [114] Brutor v. Brutor...come get some http://nopogo.mybrute.com "I am expendable"
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.09.30 14:55:00 - [115] Originally by: Sirius A Brutor v. Brutor...come get some http://nopogo.mybrute.com Even there you have to blob. http://jeekin.mybrute.com/fight/972535483 --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Equinox Daedalus Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.30 16:08:00 - [116] Edited by: Equinox Daedalus on 30/09/2009 16:09:08 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Dimebag Delia Would guess either -7- or Cold Steel could manage UK solo. That's a pretty inaccurate statement. Those alliances have less cap ships than my lone corp, never mind a serious lack of competent FC's. There is also the fact that U'K can field much larger fleets than those entities alone. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it. But they know that U'K attract a more experienced, more skilled combat pilot - it is the nature of our alliance and our existence (until recently, U'K existed only for combat, and held no space). I think we are all slightly paranoid (in a healthy way) about recruiting pilots who live only for sansha hunting rather than true combat. It is those pilots who bloat the Providence holders and cause them to be ineffectual on the field of combat. We have no wish to go the way of Cold Steel, -7-, etc - ineffectual sansha hunting alliances who's response to threat is simply a mass of numbers. Coming from an Alliance that hides behind -A- makes this post even slightly more comical. Alright "not kenny" you win. I don't know why even anyone even bothers replying to you, except for the fact that you seem to make little to no sense most of them time. I know you'll say "we don't hide behind -a-" and "we don't do what -a- tell us to do" and "we are free to do what we like no matter what -a- say".....I'm sure that somewhere deep deep down in your pod you believe it, much like i'm sure that you believe CVA are evil and that slavery is bad. I'd tell the monkeys posting to ignore you but they generally would disregard any of that thought as they seem to get to riled up in the excitment of getting infamous. Good Luck riling up the masses i'm sure they need something to go on about. The Legion of Spoon : Upon wings of wax I fly, never to close too the sun
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 17:42:00 - [117] Originally by: Equinox Daedalus Coming from an Alliance that hides behind -A- makes this post even slightly more comical. This from an alliance who brought along 500 of their closest pets to destroy 1 U'K tower some months ago. You scared? Irony overload, or are you actually as deluded and bitter as you sound? ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 17:57:00 - [118] Originally by: Equinox Daedalus Edited by: Equinox Daedalus on 30/09/2009 16:09:08 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Dimebag Delia Would guess either -7- or Cold Steel could manage UK solo. That's a pretty inaccurate statement. Those alliances have less cap ships than my lone corp, never mind a serious lack of competent FC's. There is also the fact that U'K can field much larger fleets than those entities alone. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if any single Providence holder would like to fight U'K without the holding hands of the rest of the Bloc, we would accept the challenge with relish. However, for whatever reason, this challenge is yet to be accepted. Though I think we can all guess the reasons with some accuracy. But it stands. I ask any holder to put their ships where their mouths are, and accept it. But they know that U'K attract a more experienced, more skilled combat pilot - it is the nature of our alliance and our existence (until recently, U'K existed only for combat, and held no space). I think we are all slightly paranoid (in a healthy way) about recruiting pilots who live only for sansha hunting rather than true combat. It is those pilots who bloat the Providence holders and cause them to be ineffectual on the field of combat. We have no wish to go the way of Cold Steel, -7-, etc - ineffectual sansha hunting alliances who's response to threat is simply a mass of numbers. Coming from an Alliance that hides behind -A- makes this post even slightly more comical. Alright "not kenny" you win. I don't know why even anyone even bothers replying to you, except for the fact that you seem to make little to no sense most of them time. I know you'll say "we don't hide behind -a-" and "we don't do what -a- tell us to do" and "we are free to do what we like no matter what -a- say".....I'm sure that somewhere deep deep down in your pod you believe it, much like i'm sure that you believe CVA are evil and that slavery is bad. I'd tell the monkeys posting to ignore you but they generally would disregard any of that thought as they seem to get to riled up in the excitment of getting infamous. Good Luck riling up the masses i'm sure they need something to go on about. I don't know about you, Butter, but somebody sure sounds riled up to me! ;) What do you think? We must all hang together or most assuredly we shall hang separately.
Aquinzus Amarr Modern Marvels	Posted - 2009.09.30 18:04:00 - [119] All I can say is LMFAO. What a one sided bull**** deal, a person would hev to be brain dead or just plain ignorant to accept those terms. Bitter your a fool if you think any Alliance would take that wager, the Holder guys have absolutely nothing to gain except right to say they won. And for you to say invade your space, I dont think your -A- masters would let people just come in and take the stations / space that your renting off of them away. But wait I guess your going to tell us -A- gave you those stations / space since your such close Allies and all. Here let me give you a loaded deck of cards and then let me tell you that if you dont play with my cards that your a loser, but if you do it wont matter because your a loser anyway. yes what a deal! I will take 3 contract to Aquinzus please.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.30 18:57:00 - [120] This whole discussion is a case-study in cognitive dissonance. I suppose the next proposal is to cease strategic level conflict between the -A- community and the Providence community, break down either side by alliance, pair up alliance duels at every level, and let conquered space just sit when it's all said and done? I suppose that makes sense if individual self-esteem is valued higher than organizational power, strategic objectives, and ideology. Seems silly to me. And certainly cognitively dissonant.

Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 21:35:00 - [121] Originally by: Aquinzus All I can say is LMFAO. What a one sided bull**** deal, a person would hev to be brain dead or just plain ignorant to accept those terms. Bitter your a fool if you think any Alliance would take that wager, the Holder guys have absolutely nothing to gain except right to say they won. And for you to say invade your space, I dont think your -A- masters would let people just come in and take the stations / space that your renting off of them away. But wait I guess your going to tell us -A- gave you those stations / space since your such close Allies and all. Here let me give you a loaded deck of cards and then let me tell you that if you dont play with my cards that your a loser, but if you do it wont matter because your a loser anyway. yes what a deal! I will take 3 contract to Aquinzus please. We pay no rent, and I sure -A- would not want neighbours who cannot fend for themselves against a lone Providence holder. We would have to be inept in the extreme to fail against such an 'onslaught' We all know what the facts are. We all know the level of competence of the individual holder alliances. Which makes their prior claim to be able to match us 'one on one' quite laughable. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.30 21:40:00 - [122] I think that the purpose of BD's offer (whilst genuine) is to serve as a demonstration of the dependance of many (not all) of the slaver forces on sheer weight of numbers, especially given some of the chestbeating we saw from Sylph early on in the conflict. Claims that they could beat us without any help from their allies have since been quite roundly debunked. It is entertaining that even with the help of a major powerblock, we are still free. Personally I wouldnt expect any of the providence pets to consider taking up the challenge, as many have rightfully pointed out its a case of much to lose, nothing to gain, an inversion of pascals wager.
progodlegend 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.10.01 08:10:00 - [123] Edited by: progodlegend on 01/10/2009 08:12:43 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: progodlegend Come on, what does Uk have to offer to sweeten the deal? But, yes I am aware you made the same offer on your space, which I find interesting and must admit that is tempting. But once again have to ask, what the conditions of such a victory would be, do we have to take over a system? all the systems? some systems? just stations? Talking about the assualt on our space: we'll request that -A- and other allies don't get involved. Just you and us, no outside help on either side. You win by capturing our two stations and driving us out. And we shall hand the space back to -A- in these circumstances, since we would not be worthy of holding space we cannot defend from one holder alliance. Fair and Honest, would be worth considering if the interest were there. Would want to wait till after real life stops kicking my ass though, probably will pick up after midterms in 2 weeks.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.01 10:58:00 - [124] Originally by: Xennith It is entertaining that even with the help of a major powerblock, we are still free. Aaah, you Minmatars with your surreal sense of humour Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.01 11:11:00 - [125] Technically not matari. Living with Brutors is ... interesting but they havent rubbed off on me enough that I share their sense of humour (which mostly consists of fart jokes). But it is good to be free.
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.02 11:02:00 - [126] Originally by: Xennith Technically not matari. Living with Brutors is ... interesting but they havent rubbed off on me enough that I share their sense of humour (which mostly consists of fart jokes). But it is good to be free. The first time Jessie told me to pull his finger...
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.02 19:23:00 - [127] Well, apart from the quaffing....


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