Bad pilots flying good ships still equals **** results.

Sorry baddies.

No, they don't. A thrasher goes 1.9 km/s with a MWD, has 56 base sig, and aligns in 4 seconds. That's way closer to frigate level than cruiser level.

That's not the point. You said they had "No speed", and that the sig of cruisers. Those two things are objectively false.

This is exactly the response I was hoping for.

It was over-balanced, and is yet another Caldari platform that outshines it's racial counterparts by leaps and bounds.

garbage

Oh look, fresh from getting their asses handed to them by Eve University, Space Police has joined the fray.

I'm glad you could make it, really, and I know you were busy and all, but this conversation was played out days ago.

And bad pilots camping the same highsec gate in the same lowsec system for months at a time in double sebo'd Tech 3 cruisers with offgrid boosters and cloaked Rapier and Falcon alts nearby still equals, well, why don't you tell us Jones Bones, you're the expert.

I'm so bad I fit ECM on Thrashers.

fyp

Oh look, fresh from getting their asses handed to them by Eve University, Space Police has joined the fray.

I'm glad you could make it, really, and I know you were busy and all, but this conversation was played out days ago.

LOL UMAD? No wait, UBAD!

Garbage

fyp

Pointless drivel.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

I have this really fast, nimble frigate but I can't beat a Merlin when I sit in his blaster optimal. WHY CCP WHY?

[quote=Jones Bones]The point is that now a Merlin with null will kill a rifter kiting at the edge of scram range (with barrage) and will kill a brawler rifter up close.

At the edge of scram range, blaster dps is pathetic at best. Scram range is 9km. Someone already said that dps at 7km is 80. AC200 have 30% more range with falloff, so you will be in your 80-85% dps range instead of the 45% and less dps the merlin is.

And 70m/s is anything but unsignificant, whatever the way you say it. It's the difference between kite and be kitted.

Anyway, if the merlin is your only problem with a rifter, then just avoid blaster merlin.

Forum ate my post so ill have to make this fast:
@Aliaksandre
-Rifters orbiting at 500: I cant tell you the number of Rifter pilots taht let me hit them with Void. Hence some of my previous comments about orbiting at 500
-Competent Merlin Pilot: Yes, a competent merlin pilot will be able to catch a unaware Rfiter pilot with minor difficulty. Same can't be said about the uncompetent pilots that fly a merlin because its FotM.
-I agree that if you start the fight inside a merlins range, youre unlikely to make it out. This can be said of all blaster ships.

Did you maybe miss the part where i pointed out the flawes in your argument?

PS. most rifter pilots don't fly with a T2 web, often opting for the T2 scram to increase kiting range.

Meta 4 scram and T2 scram have the exact same range, so this makes approximately ****-all sense. Actually, it makes less than ****-all sense, because you can overheat the meta4 for longer than the T2.

It's also cheaper.

So, meta4 scrams:
-Same range as T2
-Lasts longer heated (effectively giving it more range for more time) than T2
-Easier to fit than T2
-Cheaper than T2


No frigate pilot with half a brain is fitting T2 scrams... OR webs, for that matter - although the Meta 4s and the T2s for webs are more comparably priced, whereas buying a T2 scram is just throwing a few hundred thousand isk away for an inferior module.

Oh, lower cap cost on the meta 4s, too.

I'm forced to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

Look at you, pulling me back in.

You are right; however, using a meta 4 scram is a very new thought i didn't consider, since up until a few weeks ago they were way more expensive (7m ish?) and would never be fitted on a t1 rifter...old habits and all. Also, they OH to the same range, 10.8.

Secondly, that extra 3% or so from T2 web from meta web is totally worth it.

Sadly, I also had several trial runs where i operated inside web but right outside scram range (simulating OH scram) and it was still way closer than it should have been and lost.

The extra 400m from a meta scram isn't going to make enough of a difference to win the argument that the rifter didn't get shafted.

So is the rifter getting "shafted" by just the Merlin, or the Incursus and Punisher too?

Without going through extensive analysis it seems to me that it's game over once the rifter gets neuts on the other two.

Caldari > Minmatar > Gallente > Amarr > Caldari.. etc...

No, I said they overheat for *longer*. As in, they burn out more slowly. AFAIK this is true across the board for meta4 Vs T2. So you get that 10.8 range for a little bit longer by packing the meta4 instead of the T2.



Not sure what you're on about here. Meta4 and T2 have the same velocity mod: -60%




I'm not really sure how you think it got "shafted". The Merlin and Incursus definitely have an advantage over the standard Rifter fits in a close range brawl, yes, but that doesn't really equate to it being "shafted". There are frigates it doesn't completely dominate now - so what? Is there some special reason the Rifter deserves to be the uncontested king of the frigates?




Punisher is still pretty bad from what I've seen. I've trivially destroyed every punisher I've run into in my rifter with no particular effort. Orbit, turn mods on, wait for the explosion. It might go differently if any of them packed dual pulse, maybe (I'd have to look at the tracking numbers), but every one I've run into is packing medium. The end result is that I'm faster, I have a web, and their guns don't track quite well enough at very close range.