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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 04:24:00 -
[1]
Currently Capitals are reliant on Cyno-gen ships that provide a lock-on point for Capitals to jump too.
Now the reasoning for such a system is because EVE actually models the tens of millions of kilometers of a solar system, and the cyno system provides precise grid based coordinates that allows the server to place a capital at a location when transiting between solar systems.
My idea is to supplement the above with the use of Lagrange points.
Lang Points will be "fixed objects" in space like planets, moons and the like which show up on the overview just like any other object.
The main function of the Lang Point however is that it will allow Capitals to jump in to a system without the need for an a-priori cyno gen.
HOWEVER: Unlike cyno gens, a ship jumping to a Lagrange point needs time to calculate its jump and therefore is unable to jump instantly to the point, nor can it warp while the calculation cycle begins. i.e its a sitting duck should it come under attack during the computational cycle.
Just as standard cyno gens "light up" the overview, so too will ships using Lang Points. This will last the standard duration as a cyno-gen.
The additional possibilities and the additional flexibility provided should provide some variety to Capital tactics. Reflections in Starlight |
kim long
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Posted - 2009.09.24 04:29:00 -
[2]
i don't see the need for the cap to "light up" on the overview, seeing as how if you are hunting for ships you should have a scanner, and the cap will be primairly unable to defend itself. I like the idea, but if the calculations take say, 5 mins, there is no need for it to make the ship a warp point itself, no one in their right mind would use it, if you where just stuck there, but were just sitting at a safe point, then an opposing ship would have to have a combat scanner to find you, more people would risk it that way i think.
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 04:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 24/09/2009 04:54:13
Originally by: kim long i don't see the need for the cap to "light up" on the overview, seeing as how if you are hunting for ships you should have a scanner, and the cap will be primairly unable to defend itself. I like the idea, but if the calculations take say, 5 mins, there is no need for it to make the ship a warp point itself, no one in their right mind would use it, if you where just stuck there, but were just sitting at a safe point, then an opposing ship would have to have a combat scanner to find you, more people would risk it that way i think.
I think you misunderstood. The Capital is a sitting duck BEFORE it completes its jump. Here is what I see:
1. Capital Pilot locates the star system he wants to jump too. 2. Providing it is in range he selects from a list of LG points within than system (like he would be selecting a cyno now, different systems will have different numbers and locations of LG points) 3. He begins the jump sequence. The sequence will have a cycle time of lets say - 1 min - during THIS time he is a sitting duck. i.e he cannot warp. Even if he cancels the jump sequence before the cycle is complete, he is still stuck until 1 min is up. 4. If he successfully jumps to the lagrange point, that particular point gets shows up on the overview, just as cyno gens do now, for the same duration. 5. Just like a Capital that has jumped to a new system, it can warp away etc. The real danger is the time spent calculating what is effectively a "blind jump". Reflections in Starlight |
Verlokiraptor
Raptor Detection Agency
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Posted - 2009.09.24 05:22:00 -
[4]
I like this idea, cyno alts being a necessity has always bugged me. I think it could scale a little: The more massive the objects creating the Lagrange point, the faster the start-up time. With the lower limit being 1 minute, scaling all the way up. Or just scale on fuel used.
In any case, it would absolutely need to use more fuel, and possibly even a high slot module on the capital itself. Cynos would still be the choice for fleets if they're available. I also think that at the very least, an interceptor should have time to warp to the point and tackle the cap if it's nearby, but I'm not sure how that time would compare to capital align time.
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 11:20:00 -
[5]
/bump Reflections in Starlight |
Ashley Thomas
Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 19:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ashley Thomas on 24/09/2009 19:52:55 just make the jump point the sun, as its the obvious beacon to shoot for
Veritatum Cognoscere |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.24 20:14:00 -
[7]
It's a bit of a long read but may want to check out the below,
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184956
Links to an idea on Eve-Files
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.25 05:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy It's a bit of a long read but may want to check out the below,
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184956
Links to an idea on Eve-Files
Oh yes, glad to see that idea still alive and kicking
Mine is a more modest proposal that can implemented in the current game model without too much work. Reflections in Starlight |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.25 06:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko
Oh yes, glad to see that idea still alive and kicking
Yep, just released! Similar ideas but of a different scope.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:17:00 -
[10]
/bump Reflections in Starlight |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:38:00 -
[11]
Jumping without cynos to fixed points in space .. guess the anti-pirate organizations will always know where to find their prey Only reason carriers survive is the ability to jump to stations, adding points like that will not change this and they will end up graveyards for the overly optimistic.
Would be sweet if there were such points scattered around the Empire periphery (low-sec), and due to the stable nature of the area they doubled the possible range of jumps from that location - like giant space trampolines.
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Jumping without cynos to fixed points in space .. guess the anti-pirate organizations will always know where to find their prey Only reason carriers survive is the ability to jump to stations, adding points like that will not change this and they will end up graveyards for the overly optimistic.
Firstly, this is a compliment TOO not a replacement OF, Cyno-systems.
Secondly: Umm..you do realize that unless it is a Covert cyno, Cynosural fields automatically convey their location to ALL people in the system right? Once a Capital jumps in, its pretty much at the mercy of anyone else on the otherside.
Thirdly, the point here is to provide a less alt-based alternative to the current setup. I dont know about you, but having an alt for the singular purpose of lighting up a cyno is pretty stupid if you ask me. CCP may have setup the cyno system in order to provide a means to provide on-grid coordinates for a jump, but there are other alternatives. Reflections in Starlight |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko
Firstly, this is a compliment TOO not a replacement OF, Cyno-systems.
Secondly: Umm..you do realize that unless it is a Covert cyno, Cynosural fields automatically convey their location to ALL people in the system right? Once a Capital jumps in, its pretty much at the mercy of anyone else on the otherside.
Yea, I read and understood the initial post perfectly (I think) and answered based on the complimentary nature of the suggested points . My point was that if they are fixed in space they will be under constant observation by "bad people" and thus suicide to actually use unless as a trap for afore mentioned baddies. The fact that a cyno shows on overview does not put a capital at any risk whatsoever unless it is poorly placed, you can basically dock the instant you have loaded space or inch yourself inside a POS. Even with a hostile group waiting surely the cyno pilot will know and the jump aborted/postponed.
Yes, I hate the need to have alts to perform functions such as providing cynos. Capitals were not designed to be private property, but corporate/alliance items. Eve has just overtaken their design and they are now common everyday items.
I would love for permanent jump points scattered around, but you will still need to scout them to avoid death so there is little difference to current system where you scout and light cyno.
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Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
My point was that if they are fixed in space they will be under constant observation by "bad people" and thus suicide to actually use unless as a trap for afore mentioned baddies. The fact that a cyno shows on overview does not put a capital at any risk whatsoever unless it is poorly placed, you can basically dock the instant you have loaded space or inch yourself inside a POS. Even with a hostile group waiting surely the cyno pilot will know and the jump aborted/postponed.
Yes, I hate the need to have alts to perform functions such as providing cynos. Capitals were not designed to be private property, but corporate/alliance items. Eve has just overtaken their design and they are now common everyday items.
I would love for permanent jump points scattered around, but you will still need to scout them to avoid death so there is little difference to current system where you scout and light cyno.
Well this is very much a risk vs reward issue. I.e do a Lang Point jump without needing a pilot already in the target system and maybe risk blind jumping as you would do through a stargate without a scout, or else use a cyno-scout to check the system first.
Also consider: Lang points can be numerous in a single system, generally speaking more planets = more lang points, and it will be pretty hard to lock down anywhere between 4 to 12 or more points.
So its the standard risk vs reward trade off, plus without the somewhat dubious cyno-alt meta-gaming mechanic.
P.S As you point out, Capitals are pre-nerfed to facilitate cooperative gameplay, but that went out the window a LONG time go. We might as well consider more alternatives than forcing players to either train up an alt on thier main or secondary accounts. Reflections in Starlight |
Raven Timoshenko
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.28 10:33:00 -
[15]
/bump Reflections in Starlight |
The Cuckoo
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Posted - 2009.09.28 11:13:00 -
[16]
Sitting duck cap ships in lowsec, a pirates wet dream. I say brilliant idea!
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.28 13:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Also consider: Lang points can be numerous in a single system, generally speaking more planets = more lang points, and it will be pretty hard to lock down anywhere between 4 to 12 or more points.
Several 'free' jump point in a system its even better than give capital ship the possibility to use gates. If you can still use regular cynos the capital ships become even more mobile than regular ships, not a good ideia.
_ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
What'hat
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Posted - 2009.09.28 13:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pan Dora Several 'free' jump point in a system its even better than give capital ship the possibility to use gates. If you can still use regular cynos the capital ships become even more mobile than regular ships, not a good idea.
I would have to agree... It's already way to easy to move capital ships around. The OP's proposal would just enforce what CCP is currently trying to dismantle with Dominion, i.e. alliances being able to very easily move across EVE.
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