| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Commadore Wittcomb
   |
Posted - 2009.09.26 16:49:00 -
[1]
What role does accuracy falloff play in turrets? what does it do and how does it apply?
|
Horchan
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:07:00 -
[2]
Here's the old turret tracking guide that explains how tracking and falloff work.
---
DesuSigs |
AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:22:00 -
[3]
My, what a can of worms.
Long story short:
At any point during your optimal you do 102% of your calculated DPS. At optimal + 1 falloff, you do ~38.6% of your DPS. At optimal + 1/2 falloff, you do about 75% of your calculated DPS.
This means:
Be in optimal unless you're firing autocannons as it drastically reduces your DPS. If you're using autocannons, try to fire between about optimal and optimal + 1/2 falloff so you don't lose all of your damage.
|
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:26:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/09/2009 17:26:32
 Originally by: Horchan
Here's the old turret tracking guide that explains how tracking and falloff work.
Note that it does not fully explain how falloff works. Falloff also affects hit quality (not just quantity, as the tracking guide suggests). Where the tracking guide says that you'll deal 50% DPS at optimal+falloff, you actually end up doing a hair over 38% of your DPS there - and this is applied "after" tracking - so whatever you're only dealing 38% of your DPS that made it through tracking.
So your best bet is to try to fly between optimal and 1/2 falloff where you're still doing ~80% of your max theoretical DPS. So in a cruiser sized ship, that means you'll be flying with ACs orbiting at about 13km (which really sucks for you, since that's overheated web range).
This is the bane of Minmatar pilots.
-Liang
Ed: Damn the 5 minute timer Astro... I totally would have had you beat! Ggrrrrrr!
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Commadore Wittcomb
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:29:00 -
[5]
ok but i fly ammar so the crystals change the optimal. do they also change the falloff too?
|
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Commadore Wittcomb
ok but i fly ammar so the crystals change the optimal. do they also change the falloff too?
Nope.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Captain Vampire
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
My, what a can of worms.
Long story short:
At any point during your optimal you do 102% of your calculated DPS. At optimal + 1 falloff, you do ~38.6% of your DPS. At optimal + 1/2 falloff, you do about 75% of your calculated DPS.
This means:
Be in optimal unless you're firing autocannons as it drastically reduces your DPS. If you're using autocannons, try to fire between about optimal and optimal + 1/2 falloff so you don't lose all of your damage.
Just wondering, where does the last 2% of DPS in optimal come from?
|
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.26 17:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Captain Vampire
Just wondering, where does the last 2% of DPS in optimal come from?
Wrecking hits.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Roland Deschaines
Minmatar
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:53:00 -
[9]
Hijacking this thread to ask for confirmation that tracking, contrary to range, does NOT affect hit quality.
--
Monsieur Rolly
|
Alberico DeSandre
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 09:15:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Alberico DeSandre on 27/09/2009 09:16:44
For the OP
Within optimal range you have a 100% hit chance
At optimal distance + falloff distance you have less than 50% hit chance (38% as others have said)
It gets worse exponentially from there.
Originally by: Roland Deschaines
Hijacking this thread to ask for confirmation that tracking, contrary to range, does NOT affect hit quality.
I support this threadjacking because this is something that has been bugging me for the past two weeks. If i'm firing on a battleship target well within optimal with less than 5m/s transversal then I should get crazy good hits right?
Nevermind that I fly a navy mega with gallente V (massive tracking boost) and run 2 tracking comps with track scripts. I still get tons of crap hits.
In any case, going missiles in exactly 21 days and never looking back.
|
|
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 09:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tippia on 27/09/2009 09:45:22
Originally by: Roland Deschaines
Hijacking this thread to ask for confirmation that tracking, contrary to range, does NOT affect hit quality.
From what I've heard, it does. Range and tracking both go into the same hit-percentage formula, and it would make sense if the quality is in turn based on that percentage.
But I'd like a confirmation either way too.
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
For the OP
Within optimal range you have a 100% hit chance
Not quite. Within optimal, only your tracking determines your hit chance. As you start to go beyond optimal and into falloff, the range itself will start to reduce your hit chance regardless of the effects of tracking. That said, range still plays a role in tracking since it determines the angular velocity of the target,
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Lucifien
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lucifien on 27/09/2009 11:51:37
Originally by: Roland Deschaines
Hijacking this thread to ask for confirmation that tracking, contrary to range, does NOT affect hit quality.
Both falloff and tracking affect chance to hit, and chance to hit determines the hit table.
So it doesn't matter why you have, say 50% chance to hit, you'll still deal 38ish% of your nominal damage because that 50% is what goes into the damage roll.
Firing a gun is a dice roll, say you have a dice with 100 sides and x hitchance, then EVE would be something like:
You roll 1: Wrecking hit (always at the bottom)
You roll 2-33: A bad hit, 50% damage (barely scratching, or something like that)
You roll 34-66: A normal hit for 100% damage
You roll 67-100: A good hit, 150% damage (Excellent, well aimed etc...)
Theres probably a bit higher resolution to it, but this is how it seems to work.
But if you roll higher than your chance to hit, you'll miss. But the good hits, the 150% ones, are the ones that turn into misses first, and once your're down to about 66% chance to hit, you'll never score a 150% hit, but a whopping 50% chance that any shot you do actually land only deal 50% damage, leaving your actual at around 0.75*0.66 = 49.5% of your max dps in the case of a 66% chance to hit.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:34:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/09/2009 12:35:03
Originally by: Lucifien
Theres probably a bit higher resolution to it, but this is how it seems to work.
The "resolution" is at 0.1 damage increments.
The actual damages dealt are spread randomly but evenly between 50% and 150% of "nominal" damage 99% of the time (and at x3 damage for the first 1%).
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Turret_damage (Linkage)
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:52:00 -
[14]
now even i am confused and i thought i had it all figured out :o
which is it? going along the x-axis on your daily dps graph; does it start missing with the good hits first or with the bad hits...? 
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 15:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 27/09/2009 15:20:25
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
Within optimal range you have a 100% hit chance
At optimal distance + falloff distance you have less than 50% hit chance (38% as others have said)
It gets worse exponentially from there.
Welllll... not really.
Within optimal your hit quality averages 1.02x (.99 * ((1.5+.5)/2))+(.01 * 3). In lamens terms, you have a 99% chance of hitting evenly between 1.5x and .5x modifiers, with a 1% chance of a wrecking hit (3x).
At optimal + 1 falloff, you have a 50% chance to hit, but your hit quality goes down as well. I'm not quite sure how the game calculates it, but I know hit quality decreases to an average quality of .75x. (.99 * .75)+(.01 * 3) = .7725. You then multiply this across the hit chance due to falloff, getting .38625, or 38.6% (a number you'll see pop up often when looking at threads about minmatar or autocannons).
It's important to note that Gripen has ignored our requests and doesn't find 5000 shot samples adequate for proving that hit quality is affected by falloff, even though it's a big enough sample statistically (a few times over). So when looking at EFT, if you want to calculate your actual DPS (perfect tracking) into falloff, use the following:
EFT's falloff DPS * (1 -((1 - (EFT's falloff DPS/optimal DPS))/2))
So open up a damage graph for your ship and right click at the distance you want to calculate DPS. A number will pop up for damage, this is "EFT's falloff DPS". Optimal DPS is the little number that appears next to your setup. This formula doesn't account for wrecking hits, though.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.27 17:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
now even i am confused and i thought i had it all figured out :o
which is it? going along the x-axis on your daily dps graph; does it start missing with the good hits first or with the bad hits...?
The only TWO things that matter are the compounded chance to hit (which takes into account everything from weapon tracking, signature resolution, optimal and falloff, target distance, target valocity and target signature radius) and the random "server-side-dice-roll" which are both generated individually for every shot.
The only exception to this "individually for every shot" rule is when the weapons are linked, the first part (the chance to hit) is only calculated once for the entire group (that's why everything has to be identical when you link weapons), but the random server-side roll is still made individually for each turret in the group.
When the random number is HIGHER than your chance-to-hit-number, you miss (example: if your chance to hit is 90%, then the random number will be higher than that only 10% of the time, so you only miss 10% of the time and hit 90%).
If the random number is LOWER than your chance-to-hit-number, you hit.
How HARD you hit depends on how high the random number was : under 0.01 it's x3 damage wrecking shot, just above 0.01 is x0.5 damage, at around 0.50 it's normal damage, and at 1.00 it's x1.5 damage.
In other words, as your chance to hit goes down, you lose the higher-quality NON-WRECKING hits first, and as your chance to hit gets lower and lower you not only hit less often but also weaker (you still deal 1% wrecking hits), until your chance to hit is so low (at or below 1%) that whenever you hit (1% or less of the time), every shot that does hit is a wrecking shot.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.09.28 04:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 28/09/2009 04:47:42
got it... apart from wreckings, good ones - the 150%ers - fall under the table first?
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
|
Posted - 2009.09.28 06:22:00 -
[18]
Here is the tracking formula
Chance to hit = 0.5^([Angular vel./Tracking Speed + Sig Res/Sig Rad]¦ + [range-modifier])
and the modifier formula is this
modifier = ((max(0, range - optimal))/falloff)^2
(max means take the highest of the 2 either 0 or range-optimal)
------------------------------------------------
You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.09.28 06:54:00 -
[19]
a) you forgot range in the tracking part
b) we're beyond that; we're talking about the "hit _quality_ reduction" that applies on top of the _chance_ reduction in falloff
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.28 08:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
got it... apart from wreckings, good ones - the 150%ers - fall under the table first?
yup
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
|
|
Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
|
Posted - 2009.09.28 08:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
a) you forgot range in the tracking part
b) we're beyond that; we're talking about the "hit _quality_ reduction" that applies on top of the _chance_ reduction in falloff
The range modifier it at the end if you notice, so no I didn't leave it out.
But fair enough I was just breezing through.
------------------------------------------------
You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |