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SupremeCommander Smith
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Posted - 2009.09.27 13:04:00 -
[1]
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.27 13:16:00 -
[2]
1. may i suggest watching http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677
it nicely illustrates what you can do even without uberskillpoints.
2. you already get a head start with double training speed until you hit 1.6m SP. though i have to admit it is hard to pick the right things as a new player. but asking in the channel of your starter corp will get you some guidance.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.27 14:59:00 -
[3]
Six months in station? You're doing it horrifically wrong. A new player who starts working his way up the mission chain can be doing L4s inside of two months, with the appropriate standings, skills, and cash, with no real difficulty. A newbie miner can be in a Retriever in two weeks and a Hulk in eight. An industrialist can be pumping out ammo after a day, and have perfect T1 skills in 2-3 weeks. A PvPer can score kills with maybe six hours of training, and a trader doesn't even require that much. Just what are you trying to do that you need several million free SP?
Also, I find it hilarious that someone would complain about not starting off as an effective character in a MMO, and his refuge would be a traditional grindfest RPG where you spend your first week killing swamp rats. Or did your WoW-playing buddy get his Level 80 by sitting in the newbie town waiting for free XP to roll in after he made his character?
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Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:35:00 -
[4]
/not signed. We already have a 100% training speed boost for new characters, I think that's more than enough!
On top of that, noobs get TWO remaps for their attributes... which is very good for reducing training times even further if you get it right.
The only gripe I have at the present is those damned learning skills. I've just finished training the main ones to five and will soon start on the second set. Spending over a month just training learning skills SUCKS in my opinion, it would be nice to have them removed from the game and have the skill points allocatable to other skills, or give them to everyone at level IV (for the first set) when you create a character... reducing training time spent on them. The only problem with that is you get the folks with 100mil+ skill points moaning because they spent the time training them so we all have to suffer too.
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Comodore John
Gallente
YSS Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:19:00 -
[5]
guide ot faster training:
1: remap for max attributes to learning
2: get learning to 5
3: get all other learning skills to 4
4: remap to balance out attributes (except charisma)
5: profit
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Neriel Odershank
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:26:00 -
[6]
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Neriel Odershank
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
This. No support. It's already much easier on new pilots than it used to be, and I think the new pilots are losing out by having a less challenging experience.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:08:00 -
[8]
HAH...
No!
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
SolarKnight
Gallente
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.09.27 19:04:00 -
[9]
No, they really don't.
The Light in the Darkness
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Haakelen
Gallente
Angels.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 19:06:00 -
[10]
I know at least four people who joined Eve in the last few months and were running L4s as a corp activity within 3 or so weeks, as well as PvPing. You're wrong, newbies don't need more SP. They need people who don't tell them they're useless until they have <x> Million SP.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
CCP love pirate, griffer, and other criminal acters!
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
This is not the game for you. Quit now.
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coeathal vega
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
I think this summarizes you pretty well.
also
PATIENCE!
ps. not supported, you can do tons of stuff with no sp whatsoever.
----
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ciapek
Amarr
Beach Boys
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:29:00 -
[13]
cause you noob you special ?
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Discrodia
Gallente
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:09:00 -
[14]
I survived with 800k SP to start, no speed bonus, I lasted a year, I got 10m SP, and no friggin noob is getting a years worth of SP because he's new. Plus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
PS: Join a corp, then you won't sit in a station.
/not signed.
________________________________________________
MUFFINS :D |
coeathal vega
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Discrodia
I survived with 800k SP to start, no speed bonus, I lasted a year, I got 10m SP, and no friggin noob is getting a years worth of SP because he's new. Plus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
PS: Join a corp, then you won't sit in a station.
/not signed.
800k!! you lucky git.. I started with 65k sp and before anyone told me about learning skills I was at 1m sp ;>
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Speared
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Posted - 2009.09.28 00:16:00 -
[16]
Well, I was playing this game for almost 2 years now. I have few friends who tried the game. They all quit.
1st was a WoW-like MMOs player for whom EVE is way too complex.
2nd was a teenage son of my friend. Both are WoW players, too. He wanted to pvp badly but didn't really want to put any effort to learn how to fly his ship. In the end his dad who saw his son playing, told him that the game is crap.
3rd guy. An aircraft mechanic. Liked it, although didn't even try to enjoy the social aspect of the game. In the end he decided that the game costs way too much and he prefers to spend 15 euros a month on cigaretts.
4th guy. Again a WoW player who got bored with it. Wanted something different. He played EVE for 2 weeks and got back to WoW.
5th. Bio or environment or sth engineer. He liked the game, although he thinks it's too expensive.
And me. I have 2 accounts. Main characters having about 27 mils SP each and tbh with you, there's a lot of newbies who play this game in a much more enjoyable way, than I do. Simply because I lack the ideas on how to use my SPs and I'm too lazy to think and come up with some strategies and tactics.
What's more I've not so long ago got my first solo kill in PVP. And no. I didn't drop a DD on top of a noobship. I used a T1 frig set up in a noobish way which doesn't require millions of SPs. It did require some knowledge on how to set the overview, how to use a scanner etc (brains or willingness to learn game mechanics over SPs).
Conclusion:
1) There are many people who won't like the game. Simply because they lack ideas how to have fun with it, and they are probbably cheaters and premium features lovers (*) or would just like the game producer to show them some simple way of playing. I'm not saying that's bad as everyone's different and I used cheats in games too, but there are games for them already.
2) WoW players might not like the game, as it's completely different mostly because of a vast freedom of choice in character's development, ships' fitting, trading strategies which all make this game very complex and confusing. Following this way of thinking giving a new player more SPs at the begining would only add to complexity of choices concerning character development and proper fitting of a ship. In fact, getting the skills to use eve's interface properly and increasing awareness of game mechanics saves more isk and gives more opportunities of a balanced fight than LVL5 skills and T2 ships.
And one more thing about CCP's ads and recommending the game to other players. I doubt that CCP's goal is to get millions of fans who just Hack'n'slash everything that moves. When there's an advertisement of a luxury car on TV it's not aimed at achieving attention of people who can't afford to buy it, even though the product itself may look tempting. Besides I doubt CCP could even compete with Blizzard who dominaites Hack'n'slash market. The same way luxury car producers don't bother to compete with companies that produce cheap cars in large numbers.
If you don't recommend EVE to your friends it won't hurt CCP at all. EVE has at least 100,000 players who will ;)
The last thing. An easier game = more players.
(*) There are some premium things in eve already, though. One can buy an ETC from CCP and sell it for isk, thus giving CCP more money for the cluster upgrades and allowing poor players who have the will to find a way of earning some good isk quickly to keep on playing.
And there's of course already mentioned by thread's author himself a possibility to buy a character from another player. It again requires either cash or some some consideration and strategy on how to make enough isk fast.
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Angelzin
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Posted - 2009.09.28 00:20:00 -
[17]
I agree that all players should get couple million SP to assign (not just new ones).
Most of people that disagree here are not really new players and so they think that everyone has ISK backing and some other character to play.
New player will start with around 60k SP and won't be even able to fit civilian damage control on their ship.
Its true that they can remap to learn learning to 5 and then to train for retriever or hulk but as a 3 month old player I assure you that is not road that new player takes but rather designated alt route.
If you are telling somebody what route to take you are probably making sure that person moves on to some other game as they will hate game in which all they can do is mining or mission running.
Its mine understanding that in the past players were able to pick career option that gave them around 800k SP and they were able to move on from there.
CCP should have built on that system instead of creating current one where you get 60k SP and speed learning bonus.
Perhaps they should even remove learning skills from game as well as some of the most assinine skills like targeting and some others that don't serve real purpose but level 5 might be required for soemthing useful.
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.28 14:58:00 -
[18]
I only read the first paragraph and I stopped cause I can't hear myself anymore. I screamed, yelled, whining, *****ed too much here.
in other words. NO. YOU WILL SUFFER JUST LIKE ALLLLL OF US.
besides, just because you got 5m SP doesn't mean you know how to fly a ship effectively in combat. get in a corp that will learn you the ropes. if they don't do that and if thats what you need. change corp..seriously cause they suck
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:33:00 -
[19]
No, no, no.
Having a bunch of skill points to toss around still isn't going to do these people any good because they still don't have the player knowledge to effectively assign or use them.
Newb: "Woo! I spent my 10 million SP, now I can fly carriers!"
CorpMate: "Great, I'm in trouble, assign me some fighters!"
Newb: "What are fighters?"
CorpMate:  *boom* 
We all see the results when some cash loaded newb comes in, sells a bunch of plex, and buys a character with WTFOMGBBQPWN skills. And then promptly loses a Nyx or something similar 20 minutes into the game, and then comes to the forums to whine about it.
--Vel
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:29:00 -
[20]
Really, whether they are saying it nicely or not, the rest of the people in this thread are pretty much right.
Either you enjoy the game and skilling system, and work with it, doing what you can as you gain more SP.... or you don't.
If you don't and would rather have game time = "leveling up" SP-wise, WoW or the like is your game and CCP doesn't mind you leaving to play it. If CCP wanted the game to be the hotest, greatest, and top game out there they would have designed it WoW like as you described. Instead, they want a game they enjoy making and we enjoy playing. And in the process they have done a lot for new players to get into it easier along the way. But no, they won't hand everything to you on a silver platter.
By the way, they have new players that quit due to realistic new player limitations (the kind that show the player that this must not be the game they want to play), but they also have new players that keep playing because it is a fun game and they enjoy the skill system.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
We all see the results when some cash loaded newb comes in, sells a bunch of plex, and buys a character with WTFOMGBBQPWN skills. And then promptly loses a Nyx or something similar 20 minutes into the game, and then comes to the forums to whine about it.
Esp if they are coming from a game where you do not loose your stuff when you die.
I am constantly confused at people who use 'and then they went back to WoW' as a justification for changes to EVE. If they went back to WoW, it is because WoW works better for the... EVE is not WoW and is different because it is designed for people who are NOT interested in WoW (in general at least)
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En Passant
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Posted - 2009.09.28 23:20:00 -
[22]
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.09.28 23:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: En Passant
keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves!
Wrong. Eve is a niche game for those of us who know how to (and get the most enjoyment and entertainment from) finding our own path to fun. The numbers of people who "get it" continue to increase year over year. It's not a problem, that the majority of gamers don't get it, it's evidence that the vision has not been lost.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Smegnet Incorporated
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.29 06:16:00 -
[24]
Can this thread plz be locked? There is a lot of whining going on in here....
--Isaac
P.S. Yup, just wasted my 5min CD...
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 10:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Malcanis on 29/09/2009 10:06:09
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train...
:facepalm:
I started out with 50-60k SP, had never heard of EvEMon or EvE un iversity, there was no such thing as salvage, there was no LP store, and you had to get basic learning skills to level 5 before you could train the advanced. +3 implants were something like 18-20 mill each in mission hubs. "double training rate" and stat respecs weren't even an idea. I had no idea at all what I was doing when I made my character. Pretty much the only things I got right were having a decent PERC stat and choosing a character name with a letter from the middle of the alphabet.
By the time I had been playing for 6 months I had already been through a major war in 0.0, made friend in EvE with people I still count as friends today, created my own corp, and led it into first the Drone regions, then to Curse.
Stop making excuses, undock, and get started. You succeed in EvE by playing it, not by having n millions of SP.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 10:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: En Passant
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
Mate, I have some bad news for you.
You know those SP requirements those corps have? They don't really care all that much about the SP. What they actually care about is combat experience. The SP requirement is just a first pass filter; if you want players with 1 years PvP experience, then filtering out people with less than 1 year's SP is logical.
And I will bet you everything I own that virtually all of those "compelling" corps have members with considerably less than the "minimum" number of SP. The reason that those corps are "compelling" is because they composed of people who got out there and started playing as hard as they could from day 1. If you want to join them, dont cry for more meaningless free SP, do that. Get out there and get started. 3 months PvP experience beats the hell out of an extra 5M SP.(Bonus: you get the SP anyway)
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Neriel Odershank
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
This, and then you actually LEARN about everything in the game. That fitting long and short range on your ship is not a good idea. That all of low sec isnt in complete anarchy. Mission are utterly boring, and that infact 10 million isk is not at all alot.
Battleships are not solopwnmobiles and are very large slow moving targets, like fat deer in a field of Lions when in low security.
Smartbombs are not High Sec friendly 
Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Efrim Black
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
I ssupport this because the vodka in my belly told me to do so. Youre all a bunch of screw-heads and hooligans for putting this one down. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
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professor ordinarius
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:14:00 -
[29]
at least double amount for fast learning
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Odins Blood
Nagrom Security Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:07:00 -
[30]
i would like to say shut up. 8 days and i havent hit 500 thousand sp yet. and im doing fine. i mine i go pvp with my clan (and im no help at all. pewpew) and i have fun. with 1 million sp i would not even need a frigate to start with and id be trolling around low sec with the rest of the 1 million sp noobs. i like the idea of raising the speed noobs train and tapering it off. maybe just raise it a bit more and taper it off slowly. not up to 6x though. jeez. then my skills would be worthless. hell why not make it so everybody trains a little faster. and provide a timeline thing so you can figure out how to get to your goal better. im trying to do alot of things and the ingame help and hints and menus are confusing and sometimes not helpful at all. but thats a different story. you play too much wow if you think noobs getting 1mil sp is at all reasonable. and thats from a noob.
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