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SupremeCommander Smith
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Posted - 2009.09.27 13:04:00 -
[1]
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.27 13:16:00 -
[2]
1. may i suggest watching http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677
it nicely illustrates what you can do even without uberskillpoints.
2. you already get a head start with double training speed until you hit 1.6m SP. though i have to admit it is hard to pick the right things as a new player. but asking in the channel of your starter corp will get you some guidance.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.27 14:59:00 -
[3]
Six months in station? You're doing it horrifically wrong. A new player who starts working his way up the mission chain can be doing L4s inside of two months, with the appropriate standings, skills, and cash, with no real difficulty. A newbie miner can be in a Retriever in two weeks and a Hulk in eight. An industrialist can be pumping out ammo after a day, and have perfect T1 skills in 2-3 weeks. A PvPer can score kills with maybe six hours of training, and a trader doesn't even require that much. Just what are you trying to do that you need several million free SP?
Also, I find it hilarious that someone would complain about not starting off as an effective character in a MMO, and his refuge would be a traditional grindfest RPG where you spend your first week killing swamp rats. Or did your WoW-playing buddy get his Level 80 by sitting in the newbie town waiting for free XP to roll in after he made his character?
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Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:35:00 -
[4]
/not signed. We already have a 100% training speed boost for new characters, I think that's more than enough!
On top of that, noobs get TWO remaps for their attributes... which is very good for reducing training times even further if you get it right.
The only gripe I have at the present is those damned learning skills. I've just finished training the main ones to five and will soon start on the second set. Spending over a month just training learning skills SUCKS in my opinion, it would be nice to have them removed from the game and have the skill points allocatable to other skills, or give them to everyone at level IV (for the first set) when you create a character... reducing training time spent on them. The only problem with that is you get the folks with 100mil+ skill points moaning because they spent the time training them so we all have to suffer too.
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Comodore John
Gallente
YSS Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:19:00 -
[5]
guide ot faster training:
1: remap for max attributes to learning
2: get learning to 5
3: get all other learning skills to 4
4: remap to balance out attributes (except charisma)
5: profit
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Neriel Odershank
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:26:00 -
[6]
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Neriel Odershank
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
This. No support. It's already much easier on new pilots than it used to be, and I think the new pilots are losing out by having a less challenging experience.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:08:00 -
[8]
HAH...
No!
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
SolarKnight
Gallente
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.09.27 19:04:00 -
[9]
No, they really don't.
The Light in the Darkness
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Haakelen
Gallente
Angels.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 19:06:00 -
[10]
I know at least four people who joined Eve in the last few months and were running L4s as a corp activity within 3 or so weeks, as well as PvPing. You're wrong, newbies don't need more SP. They need people who don't tell them they're useless until they have <x> Million SP.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
CCP love pirate, griffer, and other criminal acters!
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
This is not the game for you. Quit now.
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coeathal vega
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
I think this summarizes you pretty well.
also
PATIENCE!
ps. not supported, you can do tons of stuff with no sp whatsoever.
----
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ciapek
Amarr
Beach Boys
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:29:00 -
[13]
cause you noob you special ?
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Discrodia
Gallente
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:09:00 -
[14]
I survived with 800k SP to start, no speed bonus, I lasted a year, I got 10m SP, and no friggin noob is getting a years worth of SP because he's new. Plus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
PS: Join a corp, then you won't sit in a station.
/not signed.
________________________________________________
MUFFINS :D |
coeathal vega
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Discrodia
I survived with 800k SP to start, no speed bonus, I lasted a year, I got 10m SP, and no friggin noob is getting a years worth of SP because he's new. Plus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
PS: Join a corp, then you won't sit in a station.
/not signed.
800k!! you lucky git.. I started with 65k sp and before anyone told me about learning skills I was at 1m sp ;>
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Speared
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Posted - 2009.09.28 00:16:00 -
[16]
Well, I was playing this game for almost 2 years now. I have few friends who tried the game. They all quit.
1st was a WoW-like MMOs player for whom EVE is way too complex.
2nd was a teenage son of my friend. Both are WoW players, too. He wanted to pvp badly but didn't really want to put any effort to learn how to fly his ship. In the end his dad who saw his son playing, told him that the game is crap.
3rd guy. An aircraft mechanic. Liked it, although didn't even try to enjoy the social aspect of the game. In the end he decided that the game costs way too much and he prefers to spend 15 euros a month on cigaretts.
4th guy. Again a WoW player who got bored with it. Wanted something different. He played EVE for 2 weeks and got back to WoW.
5th. Bio or environment or sth engineer. He liked the game, although he thinks it's too expensive.
And me. I have 2 accounts. Main characters having about 27 mils SP each and tbh with you, there's a lot of newbies who play this game in a much more enjoyable way, than I do. Simply because I lack the ideas on how to use my SPs and I'm too lazy to think and come up with some strategies and tactics.
What's more I've not so long ago got my first solo kill in PVP. And no. I didn't drop a DD on top of a noobship. I used a T1 frig set up in a noobish way which doesn't require millions of SPs. It did require some knowledge on how to set the overview, how to use a scanner etc (brains or willingness to learn game mechanics over SPs).
Conclusion:
1) There are many people who won't like the game. Simply because they lack ideas how to have fun with it, and they are probbably cheaters and premium features lovers (*) or would just like the game producer to show them some simple way of playing. I'm not saying that's bad as everyone's different and I used cheats in games too, but there are games for them already.
2) WoW players might not like the game, as it's completely different mostly because of a vast freedom of choice in character's development, ships' fitting, trading strategies which all make this game very complex and confusing. Following this way of thinking giving a new player more SPs at the begining would only add to complexity of choices concerning character development and proper fitting of a ship. In fact, getting the skills to use eve's interface properly and increasing awareness of game mechanics saves more isk and gives more opportunities of a balanced fight than LVL5 skills and T2 ships.
And one more thing about CCP's ads and recommending the game to other players. I doubt that CCP's goal is to get millions of fans who just Hack'n'slash everything that moves. When there's an advertisement of a luxury car on TV it's not aimed at achieving attention of people who can't afford to buy it, even though the product itself may look tempting. Besides I doubt CCP could even compete with Blizzard who dominaites Hack'n'slash market. The same way luxury car producers don't bother to compete with companies that produce cheap cars in large numbers.
If you don't recommend EVE to your friends it won't hurt CCP at all. EVE has at least 100,000 players who will ;)
The last thing. An easier game = more players.
(*) There are some premium things in eve already, though. One can buy an ETC from CCP and sell it for isk, thus giving CCP more money for the cluster upgrades and allowing poor players who have the will to find a way of earning some good isk quickly to keep on playing.
And there's of course already mentioned by thread's author himself a possibility to buy a character from another player. It again requires either cash or some some consideration and strategy on how to make enough isk fast.
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Angelzin
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Posted - 2009.09.28 00:20:00 -
[17]
I agree that all players should get couple million SP to assign (not just new ones).
Most of people that disagree here are not really new players and so they think that everyone has ISK backing and some other character to play.
New player will start with around 60k SP and won't be even able to fit civilian damage control on their ship.
Its true that they can remap to learn learning to 5 and then to train for retriever or hulk but as a 3 month old player I assure you that is not road that new player takes but rather designated alt route.
If you are telling somebody what route to take you are probably making sure that person moves on to some other game as they will hate game in which all they can do is mining or mission running.
Its mine understanding that in the past players were able to pick career option that gave them around 800k SP and they were able to move on from there.
CCP should have built on that system instead of creating current one where you get 60k SP and speed learning bonus.
Perhaps they should even remove learning skills from game as well as some of the most assinine skills like targeting and some others that don't serve real purpose but level 5 might be required for soemthing useful.
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.28 14:58:00 -
[18]
I only read the first paragraph and I stopped cause I can't hear myself anymore. I screamed, yelled, whining, *****ed too much here.
in other words. NO. YOU WILL SUFFER JUST LIKE ALLLLL OF US.
besides, just because you got 5m SP doesn't mean you know how to fly a ship effectively in combat. get in a corp that will learn you the ropes. if they don't do that and if thats what you need. change corp..seriously cause they suck
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:33:00 -
[19]
No, no, no.
Having a bunch of skill points to toss around still isn't going to do these people any good because they still don't have the player knowledge to effectively assign or use them.
Newb: "Woo! I spent my 10 million SP, now I can fly carriers!"
CorpMate: "Great, I'm in trouble, assign me some fighters!"
Newb: "What are fighters?"
CorpMate:  *boom* 
We all see the results when some cash loaded newb comes in, sells a bunch of plex, and buys a character with WTFOMGBBQPWN skills. And then promptly loses a Nyx or something similar 20 minutes into the game, and then comes to the forums to whine about it.
--Vel
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:29:00 -
[20]
Really, whether they are saying it nicely or not, the rest of the people in this thread are pretty much right.
Either you enjoy the game and skilling system, and work with it, doing what you can as you gain more SP.... or you don't.
If you don't and would rather have game time = "leveling up" SP-wise, WoW or the like is your game and CCP doesn't mind you leaving to play it. If CCP wanted the game to be the hotest, greatest, and top game out there they would have designed it WoW like as you described. Instead, they want a game they enjoy making and we enjoy playing. And in the process they have done a lot for new players to get into it easier along the way. But no, they won't hand everything to you on a silver platter.
By the way, they have new players that quit due to realistic new player limitations (the kind that show the player that this must not be the game they want to play), but they also have new players that keep playing because it is a fun game and they enjoy the skill system.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
We all see the results when some cash loaded newb comes in, sells a bunch of plex, and buys a character with WTFOMGBBQPWN skills. And then promptly loses a Nyx or something similar 20 minutes into the game, and then comes to the forums to whine about it.
Esp if they are coming from a game where you do not loose your stuff when you die.
I am constantly confused at people who use 'and then they went back to WoW' as a justification for changes to EVE. If they went back to WoW, it is because WoW works better for the... EVE is not WoW and is different because it is designed for people who are NOT interested in WoW (in general at least)
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En Passant
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Posted - 2009.09.28 23:20:00 -
[22]
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.09.28 23:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: En Passant
keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves!
Wrong. Eve is a niche game for those of us who know how to (and get the most enjoyment and entertainment from) finding our own path to fun. The numbers of people who "get it" continue to increase year over year. It's not a problem, that the majority of gamers don't get it, it's evidence that the vision has not been lost.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Smegnet Incorporated
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.29 06:16:00 -
[24]
Can this thread plz be locked? There is a lot of whining going on in here....
--Isaac
P.S. Yup, just wasted my 5min CD...
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 10:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Malcanis on 29/09/2009 10:06:09
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train...
:facepalm:
I started out with 50-60k SP, had never heard of EvEMon or EvE un iversity, there was no such thing as salvage, there was no LP store, and you had to get basic learning skills to level 5 before you could train the advanced. +3 implants were something like 18-20 mill each in mission hubs. "double training rate" and stat respecs weren't even an idea. I had no idea at all what I was doing when I made my character. Pretty much the only things I got right were having a decent PERC stat and choosing a character name with a letter from the middle of the alphabet.
By the time I had been playing for 6 months I had already been through a major war in 0.0, made friend in EvE with people I still count as friends today, created my own corp, and led it into first the Drone regions, then to Curse.
Stop making excuses, undock, and get started. You succeed in EvE by playing it, not by having n millions of SP.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 10:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: En Passant
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
Mate, I have some bad news for you.
You know those SP requirements those corps have? They don't really care all that much about the SP. What they actually care about is combat experience. The SP requirement is just a first pass filter; if you want players with 1 years PvP experience, then filtering out people with less than 1 year's SP is logical.
And I will bet you everything I own that virtually all of those "compelling" corps have members with considerably less than the "minimum" number of SP. The reason that those corps are "compelling" is because they composed of people who got out there and started playing as hard as they could from day 1. If you want to join them, dont cry for more meaningless free SP, do that. Get out there and get started. 3 months PvP experience beats the hell out of an extra 5M SP.(Bonus: you get the SP anyway)
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Neriel Odershank
Your group is a fail.
I enjoyed the game so much when i started that you cannot even imagine.
It was wonderful exploring the game, discovering things, meeting people and growing and dreaming.
This, and then you actually LEARN about everything in the game. That fitting long and short range on your ship is not a good idea. That all of low sec isnt in complete anarchy. Mission are utterly boring, and that infact 10 million isk is not at all alot.
Battleships are not solopwnmobiles and are very large slow moving targets, like fat deer in a field of Lions when in low security.
Smartbombs are not High Sec friendly 
Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Efrim Black
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
I ssupport this because the vodka in my belly told me to do so. Youre all a bunch of screw-heads and hooligans for putting this one down. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
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professor ordinarius
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:14:00 -
[29]
at least double amount for fast learning
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Odins Blood
Nagrom Security Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:07:00 -
[30]
i would like to say shut up. 8 days and i havent hit 500 thousand sp yet. and im doing fine. i mine i go pvp with my clan (and im no help at all. pewpew) and i have fun. with 1 million sp i would not even need a frigate to start with and id be trolling around low sec with the rest of the 1 million sp noobs. i like the idea of raising the speed noobs train and tapering it off. maybe just raise it a bit more and taper it off slowly. not up to 6x though. jeez. then my skills would be worthless. hell why not make it so everybody trains a little faster. and provide a timeline thing so you can figure out how to get to your goal better. im trying to do alot of things and the ingame help and hints and menus are confusing and sometimes not helpful at all. but thats a different story. you play too much wow if you think noobs getting 1mil sp is at all reasonable. and thats from a noob.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Odins Blood
i would like to say shut up. 8 days and i havent hit 500 thousand sp yet. and im doing fine. i mine i go pvp with my clan (and im no help at all. pewpew) and i have fun. with 1 million sp i would not even need a frigate to start with and id be trolling around low sec with the rest of the 1 million sp noobs. i like the idea of raising the speed noobs train and tapering it off. maybe just raise it a bit more and taper it off slowly. not up to 6x though. jeez. then my skills would be worthless. hell why not make it so everybody trains a little faster. and provide a timeline thing so you can figure out how to get to your goal better. im trying to do alot of things and the ingame help and hints and menus are confusing and sometimes not helpful at all. but thats a different story. you play too much wow if you think noobs getting 1mil sp is at all reasonable. and thats from a noob.
Download Evemon; it is awesome for planning out your skill training.
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Odins Blood
Nagrom Security Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:56:00 -
[32]
wow really? i didnt bother to check and see if there were actualy a program for it. id like one in the game sorta but that will work. thank you.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:04:00 -
[33]
Let's give new players a jump start with SP!
First, we can put out a new skill set: Learning skills. These could raise your attributes for each level. We could have two skills for each attribute, even! This could double the speed you learn at! Training the basic skill to level 5 in order to train the advanced skill would be too much, though, so make level 4 the prereq.
Hmm.... That's not enough. How about we give every new player a vast amount of skill points to start out with, something like 800,000 SP. No, wait, we should let them assign it any way they want. How about instead for the first month or so we give them double the training speed. Yes, double!
My creative wheels are spinning now. That's not enough. These new players might have attributes that aren't suited for what they find out they want to do in the game. Let's let them choose the attributes, too! New players should at least get a couple chance to do this. We could call it neural remapping!
TL;DR: Trading RL money for skill points is fail, but the devs have already done quite a bit to allow new players to train faster and get skills faster.
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Irongut
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.01 01:43:00 -
[34]
Like other older players I started with less sp than a current new player gets. Did I sit in station just training for 6 months? No, not even 6 minutes. The new player content is doable and a good player learning experience, get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
--
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:19:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Irongut
get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
I think this cuts to the heart of the problem. The people who are asking for SP boosts do not want a challenge, they want to be powerful. It is the same as the people who will not mission run till they can cake-walk through it.... training up all their skills and making sure they have an overpowered ship so they feel godly against all those piddling NPC ships. There are not the people who take a frigate into L2 missions or a cruiser into L3 missions.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:51:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/10/2009 19:52:51
My new alt has all basic learning skills to V (minus charisma), and all advanced learning skills to 4 (again minus charisma). She is a little over 2 weeks old. I admit it might have taken longer if I were truly a new player, without access to +3s, but still using Evemon to plan and your free respec getting great learning skills really fast is very easy. I assume you could do the same thing to get into a mission BC quickly.
These "New Player's Are At a Disadvantage" threads stem from a basic misunderstanding of EvE. You are assuming that Skillpoints = Power, as in WoW or WAR where Level = Power.
I started Eve back when all characters started with about 35k (give or take) SP and NO training bonus or respec. I've had fun since day one. Your problem is not the new player experience, it's your desire to equate EvE with other MMOs. It's is not, and never will be. The sooner you can deal with that the sooner you'll be enjoying yourself.
|
Mr Laden
|
Posted - 2009.10.02 09:22:00 -
[37]
-YOU already have the bonus to training to 1.6 mil sp
-YOU now have the skill queue which I never had!
Stop complaining and be patient!
EVE is a harsh game to new players..its a godforsaken place where you have to build your own character from scratch.
In school they also didn't gave you a straight A to begin with....
prove yourself to be worthy...
-welcome to eve-
|
sue AGPlant
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.10.02 12:25:00 -
[38]
OP mentions WOW this makes the idea auto fail
seriously
not suported
1 your wow friends dont like eve BECAUSE they are wow people the mind sets are totaly diferent STOP!!!!! trying to make it the same i tried WoW once it made me want to scoop out my eyes within 5 mins of mind numbing bordem did i run to the forums and ask them to change it? NO so please stop.
I came in at RMR 800k points and i got to 2 mil before someone told me about the learning skills  and my 1st thought was awsome i can learn stuff while im away without grind allowing me to sample the diff aspects of the game not just [stand in spot x kick npc y in the shins from now till dooms day]
with the remaps time accelerator etc you can get in a af (new boost ftw) or a ceptor faily quickly in the order of a few weeks i beleve from what i have been told) and quite honestly even though im up to 50+ mill sps these are the ships im currently having the most fun in. rememver kids its only a couple mill sps reasonably speced in a t2 frig which means 40+ million skill points im not using in that ship.
the only advantage i have over a noob is that i can fly more stuff. If you go toe to to with a nub in a frig it can be a close match if the nub practices and is just plane better than you he may even win. You dont get that ever just by sitting in a station for 6 months farming sp.
/RANT
P.S. well that was a longer rant than i pictured in my head (also i suffered so should you )
CCP: destroying the game we love 1 nerf at a time.
|
Sybilla Prior
|
Posted - 2009.10.02 14:20:00 -
[39]
I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months.
Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
|
Uncle Smokey
|
Posted - 2009.10.02 14:37:00 -
[40]
It took me less than two weeks to be out fighting, back the day I started and what did we get 200k SP or something? Back then I didn't know anyone else who played the game, but there are who have 50-100mil SP and all they do is train their skills.
Yeah, I made some 100 dps on my t1 lolfit rifters and stabbers, but guess what? Sometimes I did even better than on full t2 gear ****. Blindly attacking **** can be surprisingly productive.
You either play the game or you sit in the station and your SP got very little to do with it. |
Tsasam
|
Posted - 2009.10.02 14:39:00 -
[41]
Not supported!
|
Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
|
Posted - 2009.10.03 02:16:00 -
[42]
Magic 8-ball says: "Outlook not so good."
|
BooTmahPooT
|
Posted - 2009.10.03 22:23:00 -
[43]
Originally by: En Passant
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
No. There are plenty of empire corps to run missions in. There is the "red" and "blue" empire wars corps to pvp with. Someone already said if a corp told you your worthless they are ******ed and you need to find another. Make your own corp if you want to. The is EVE. Do wtf ever you want to.
The 100% multiplier is perfect. gaining 8mill sp in 3 months imo is way to much. For a normal noob that 8mill sp will take closer to 6-8 months. If you stop staring at the character sheet skills train faster too.
If you guys want to keep whining go play WoW and grind it out.
|
hired goon
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 01:07:00 -
[44]
I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit.
-omg-
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 04:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: hired goon
I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit.
you dont have to be an elitist veteran to fly rifters for tackling.
maybe ask your friends in goonswarm about rifters and introduce your friends to them.
|
Altus Morningstar
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 09:29:00 -
[46]
Christ these kids today. They all want new cars given to them by mommy and daddy. Sigh ...
Oh OP needs to settle down and just play.
The end is extremely f'ing nigh. |
hired goon
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 10:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: hired goon
I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit.
you dont have to be an elitist veteran to fly rifters for tackling.
maybe ask your friends in goonswarm about rifters and introduce your friends to them.
Yeah, great. After I've got them all hyped up for the awesome Eve experience, I can give them a rifter & scrambler and say "Do this for a few months. You can't actually do any of the stuff I was talking about, lol."
-omg-
|
Deldrac
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 10:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Seriously, don't do this.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 11:20:00 -
[49]
As most of the people here I think that giving away a large bunch of SP to people that don't even know how the game work is a sure path for failure.
The next step would be "We need to be capable of respeccing our skills, as we did them wrong"
A suggestion that I have often seen and that, a this point in the game evolution, I would support, is to remove the first tier of the stat enhancing skills and give directly a +5 increase in all skills.
People that have trained all the learning skills to 5 like me will feel a bit shortchanged, but most of us would not stay irritated for more than a few minutes, especially if CCP gave some of the Sp we spent back in some form.
Naturally it would not have the same effect on new players that saying "you have 1.280.00 SP (the 5 tier one skills at level 5) to spend as you want as a free gift" but it would do much more to help them that giving free SP that most of them would spend to learn to fly cruisers without even knowing the basic of the game.
|
Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 19:47:00 -
[50]
They should just get rid of the training skills, give everyone the extra stat points like we all had max learning, and then give everyone who has skill-points in learning double-speed training for twice the number of SP they had in learning.
|
Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 19:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
Not supported, more than half of the Dominion patch is a massive boost to new players ... you can't have more.
---
I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 20:10:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Irongut
Like other older players I started with less sp than a current new player gets. Did I sit in station just training for 6 months? No, not even 6 minutes. The new player content is doable and a good player learning experience, get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
eve is a complex game, you use those few months to understand the way it works, for beefing up your wallet, trading, making friends, finding the right corp, choosing part of game you like, learning how to pvp, fit your ships, e.t.c.
I am a relatively new player, and there is plenty of stuf newplayers can do. You are not suppose to be able to get as good and someone who played this game for few years withing couple of days, at least not in anything except flying t1 frigs.
Fix Destroyers |
Scerolikk Teromni
|
Posted - 2009.10.04 21:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sybilla Prior
I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months.
Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
I'll bet they know. And you know what else I'll bet? I'll bet they don't care. I don't know how many people have active subscriptions to EVE, but I do know that there are probably an average of 30,000 people online at any given time. Just counting that number (30,000), and assuming the average amount they pay per month is $13 (factoring in the lower-rate extended subscriptions, and the higher cost per month of timecards), CCP is making $390,000/mo gross income. Though I remember reading that there are several hundred thousand active subscriptions, so that number could easily be multiplied by ten. EVE doesn't need more subscribers. Of course, more subscribers does mean more money and that's always a good thing, but they don't need to sacrifice very important game mechanics in order to keep the newbies playing. CCP should be plenty content with the number of subscribers they have now.
|
Sybilla Prior
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 00:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Scerolikk Teromni
Originally by: Sybilla Prior
I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months.
Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
I'll bet they know. And you know what else I'll bet? I'll bet they don't care. I don't know how many people have active subscriptions to EVE, but I do know that there are probably an average of 30,000 people online at any given time. Just counting that number (30,000), and assuming the average amount they pay per month is $13 (factoring in the lower-rate extended subscriptions, and the higher cost per month of timecards), CCP is making $390,000/mo gross income. Though I remember reading that there are several hundred thousand active subscriptions, so that number could easily be multiplied by ten. EVE doesn't need more subscribers. Of course, more subscribers does mean more money and that's always a good thing, but they don't need to sacrifice very important game mechanics in order to keep the newbies playing. CCP should be plenty content with the number of subscribers they have now.
Well, if what a lot of people here are saying is true and it is indeed possible to be effective within weeks rather than months, then no game mechanics have to be changed. They just need to show new players that it can be done, and how.
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Dirty Wizard
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 16:29:00 -
[55]
What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
|
Flying ZombieJesus
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 16:51:00 -
[56]
Get rid of learning skills so new players can put that 1.6m sp bonus to things that are useful to them now instead of training things that will help them train other things a month from now.
|
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 17:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard
What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
I'm against this proposal, but I welcome new players. We've taken completely new pilots into our corp and taught them how to survive and then thrive in Eve.
What new pilots need isn't an "easy mode" to get started. What they need is to stop hearing things like "YOU MUST TRAIN ALL LEARNING FIRST!!!" and "YOU WILL BE USELESSS FOR MONTHS."
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 18:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard
What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
No. New players are very welcome. I've run with many since back when I was a new player until now.
The flaming in this and other threads is when new players think Eve should = WoW and want to purchase SP or whine because they can't PWN in the largest ships in the game. Some new players wonder what's the deal, get it explained, and go on happily in their Eve life. Recently I chatted with a new player in my alliance that had some of the same concerns as in this thread. He left, too, but he left because he realized Eve wasn't the type of game he really wanted to play, and he did so with a head on his shoulders.
New players that just want to complain that they can't jump into a Battleship just by grinding NPCs and can't get over the non-WoW aspect is the people that generally aren't welcomed.
|
Laruant Wiggins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 18:52:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Laruant Wiggins on 05/10/2009 18:56:19
no
add two options at character creation
1.Standard Starter Character
2.Custom Character
maybe
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 06:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Not supported, more than half of the Dominion patch is a massive boost to new players ... you can't have more.
Care to point at what part of Dominion is a "massive boost" to new players?
Reducing a few prerequisites? 
|
Esker Sheep
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 06:59:00 -
[61]
/not-signed
Originally by: Haakelen
They need people who don't tell them they're useless until they have <x> Million SP.
Agree with this ^^
|
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 14:38:00 -
[62]
Not supported. New players today have many advantages over new players in the past
-Neural remapping
-Cheap and accessible implants
-Double skill speed training at first
We only really have to problems
1) Other players telling new players they are worthless until they have 20m sp
2) Other players telling new players to do nothing but train learning skills when they start out
Take the lower rank learning skills to 2 or 3, then get halfway decent at flying a ship you like. Then you can go back and fill in the learning skills.
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
REIGN Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 14:43:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 07/10/2009 14:42:52
9 times out of 10 these stupid posts are always due to lazyness and people who don't want to wait for SP's.
Learning skills honestly teach you to be paitent... you invest in skills to gain an advantage that will take months off of that nasty very long skill down the road.
Boosting noobs who join the game are self defeating and insulting to players who have managed to get capital ships (as I'm not at that stage yet and its daunting in itself)
They already have a major advantage.... the biggest issue is they keep getting told to do stupid things and you have these corps who demand a higher SP qualification (not in every case mind you... some corps don't have a choice in the matter).
But that's not the problem... the problem is this is EVE Online.
Not World of frakking warcraft.
Not supported.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Intangible Mirage
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 15:51:00 -
[64]
A friend I know in another corp who I helped recruit for got two newbies in. They never had a problem fitting in and yes they did train learning skills but it was between other skills for pvp. They were effective tacklers at about 1.5 mill SP and they both still play and like the game.
/not supported.
|
Vornan
|
Posted - 2009.10.15 20:12:00 -
[65]
I agree that new players can be totally viable in any part of Eve, but its easy for newbies to think that isn't the case. I've been leading a corp of week-old players into wormholes for the past week -- and occasionally even killing Sleepers!
However, capitals and tech-2 ships just say "screw you, newbie". You can get along fine without them, but the game holds them over your head, taunting you. You can't get at the coolest stuff without playing for months, no matter how ingenious or profitable your character is.
In the same way, I think all the little "+5% to ____" that advanced players get merely for having subscribed for months or years is an unearned advantage that punishes new players just for being new.
I fully agree that new players need to know what they are doing and be creative to be successful, but the tech 2 skill grind cannot be defeated by any amount of competence or cleverness.
I don't support massive SP bonuses to newbies, I support fewer hard time-based limitations.
|
Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.10.15 20:34:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Vornan
In the same way, I think all the little "+5% to ____" that advanced players get merely for having subscribed for months or years is an unearned advantage that punishes new players just for being new.
I think I earned that just for subscribing, in my case, years. In about three weeks I am going to start training some skills up to level 5. About 7 different skills. It's going to take me 112 days (about 4 months) to complete all 7 of those skills. Are you telling me I don't deserve the benefits those skills are going to give me?
*************************************************
I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.10.15 21:01:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dretzle Omega on 15/10/2009 21:02:04
Originally by: Vornan
I agree that new players can be totally viable in any part of Eve, but its easy for newbies to think that isn't the case. I've been leading a corp of week-old players into wormholes for the past week -- and occasionally even killing Sleepers!
However, capitals and tech-2 ships just say "screw you, newbie". You can get along fine without them, but the game holds them over your head, taunting you. You can't get at the coolest stuff without playing for months, no matter how ingenious or profitable your character is.
A new player can fit and fly T2 stuff in the first few days/week. But why shouldn't you have to wait for the cool stuff. I had to wait 18 years before I could move out of my house. 15 of those years I had to wait before I could even fly a '99 Grand Am. Another 3 years before I got my own apartment. Another 3 years before I got a house.
Eve != RL and should not be compared to it. My point is that Eve is modeled in some ways after that real life grind. Some players keep playing so they can get their characters into new ships, others to be able to do more stuff, etc.
Quote:
In the same way, I think all the little "+5% to ____" that advanced players get merely for having subscribed for months or years is an unearned advantage that punishes new players just for being new.
Um, it's an earned advantage. They've been subscribers for months or years to earn it.
Quote:
I fully agree that new players need to know what they are doing and be creative to be successful, but the tech 2 skill grind cannot be defeated by any amount of competence or cleverness.
I don't support massive SP bonuses to newbies, I support fewer hard time-based limitations.
What you really mean is you want to be able to grind like in WoW to gain your levels quickly. This is not WoW as was deliberately crafted to not be similar. In fact, the real time skilling system is a main reason why some like to play this.
But yeah, I don't see any reason why new players should have to wait for end game stuff.
EDIT: I fail at quoting.
|
Intangible Mirage
|
Posted - 2009.10.15 21:44:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Intangible Mirage on 15/10/2009 21:44:50
What 'end game' stuff? Titans? Expensive deadspace modules? Why should a noob be able to have them right away or even get them quickly?
Imo the skill training is just fine and when you actually achieve something you feel alot better than if you could have gotten it after a few days.
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Tarn Reis
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 03:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: coeathal vega
Originally by: Discrodia
I survived with 800k SP to start, no speed bonus, I lasted a year, I got 10m SP, and no friggin noob is getting a years worth of SP because he's new. Plus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
PS: Join a corp, then you won't sit in a station.
/not signed.
800k!! you lucky git.. I started with 65k sp and before anyone told me about learning skills I was at 1m sp ;>
I was in the same boat as you. I made it 4 months before realizing how damaging my attributes would be long term and rerolled. Wish someone had told me about Achura back then :P
NOT signed.
|
Dapto
Minmatar
Dissolution Of Eternity
MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 04:34:00 -
[70]
To the OP there's a game starting for you real soon "DUST514". no skills points no training but I do hope you like the grind to get anywhere. But i guess you'll complain cause you're not getting any experience points when your not doing anything and want it all for NO PAIN also.
Dapto |
Cyzlak
Karkand Kampa
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 06:39:00 -
[71]
ISK is more important than SP. Give new players more ISK :P
|
Al'kanree
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 10:38:00 -
[72]
It's clear for me than 65k tu begin it's really to low for the begining. and give 5 m sp it's clearly not the solution.
But Why not give to the new player 400k sp (Give by basic profession like before).
And you increase the boost until 2 m sp.
With 400k you can play a little and you keep the booster.
|
Xenopheer
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:44:00 -
[73]
ya, I definitely do not support this unless the "new player" is going to be paying a premium for it, else, everyone that wants to make throw away characters for griefing will be getting a big assist from CCP.
|
Limdood
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:53:00 -
[74]
Well, so far this thread has had complaints of:
-People saying that getting past Cruisers takes 35-70 days to be remotely effective.
-People saying you can't play this game without over 5m SP
-People saying that learning skills are a waste of time
-People saying that new players can't do anything in the game without tremendous ISK buying or another character financially supporting them.
well crap! I must have been doing it wrong all this time! I mean, i'm a 3 1/2 month old character with half of my basic learning skills at 5, and most of my advanced learning skills at 4 (and very happy that i can use those skills to control the speed at which i "level"). I started on my own, haven't used RL money to buy in-game money, haven't been funded by another character, and withing 2.5-3 months, i was flying Battleships in level 4 missions with no problems.
to all of those people who were complaining, I apologize most sincerely for playing incorrectly, and will proceed to think that i can't do anything cuz i don't yet have 20m SP yet....i might as well sit in a station and train instead of playing the game, earning loads of ISK in my self funded battleship with mostly T2/faction fittings.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 16:10:00 -
[75]
Malcanis' Law: When a change is proposed on the forums to "help the new players, it is always to the greater benefit of the older, rich players.
|
Syaran
Gallente
Pure Annihilation
Atropos.
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 17:15:00 -
[76]
As has been said before, any benefit for new players will benefit long time players more. They will make a second account/character and take advantage of it way better then a new player.
In EVE, the fun in the game lies in the journey, not what you reach in the end. A hypothetical player with all skills maxed (which is impossible) will have nothing more to look forward to, and even though that player can do anything, it will likely get boring. In any case, you can be effective at any level of SP and there are plenty of corps willing to teach you properly, helping you have fun from the get-go.
Try referring your friends to corps like the EVE university, they take on any newbie and can teach you all the valuable lessons. Also, with Dominion, supposedly the whole tutorial system will get yet another revamp, helping new players experience the true nature of eve better and from the moment they first undock.
[TL;DR]No changes brought up here will have the intended effect, and the entire concept is flawed, not supported.
|
Tsc92
Caldari
Dark Republic
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 18:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith
New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
I have been playing this game for a lil over 2 months i have about 3.3 million sp and a hulk, now we all know what u can do with a hulk so saying u need 5 m sp to start out with would be unrealistic and would cause a new player to miss out on his/her development period.The key to Eve is patience, if u do not have any do not play.
|
no pants
|
Posted - 2009.10.16 21:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: En Passant
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
Mate, I have some bad news for you.
You know those SP requirements those corps have? They don't really care all that much about the SP. What they actually care about is combat experience. The SP requirement is just a first pass filter; if you want players with 1 years PvP experience, then filtering out people with less than 1 year's SP is logical.
And I will bet you everything I own that virtually all of those "compelling" corps have members with considerably less than the "minimum" number of SP. The reason that those corps are "compelling" is because they composed of people who got out there and started playing as hard as they could from day 1. If you want to join them, dont cry for more meaningless free SP, do that. Get out there and get started. 3 months PvP experience beats the hell out of an extra 5M SP.(Bonus: you get the SP anyway)
well, good for you that you are so hardcore :P
I for one agree that the game needs to be more accessible for new players. In lots of ways. One of em would be raising the double SP/h thing to 3mil or sth. And also making sure that they know they are able to do lots of stuff before they have 15mil SP.
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Comodore John
Gallente
Xennon Industria
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
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Posted - 2009.10.17 00:24:00 -
[79]
Let this thread die already.
Originally by: no pants
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: En Passant
Most corps that advertise that sound anywhere close to compelling have SP requirements that are sometimes 6+ months to attain.
It's pretty easy to get into a cruiser, but it seems that cruisers are a giant wall. Getting into anything bigger is suicide because you won't be able to fit it with anything remotely usable without spending 35-70 days of training.
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
Yeah there's ways you can get creative to use a newbie, but then again.. How creative are people? Everyone agrees the learning curve in eve is extremely high. This is due to a lack of general creativity and problem-solving skills of the player. However, keep in mind it is up to the game to entertain the people.. Not the people to find a way to entertain themselves! Not all people are willing to hunt and peck for a reason to play a game.
I love space, I love space ships, and planets and in general anything that resembles sci-fi. EVE was the best game that is being offered, but despite my sincere desire to play the game, it took me 3 cancellations before I finally "got it".
I love the idea that skill points are earned at a dramatically increased rate for new players. I think it should be more so and possibly even accelerated further, descending with time.. Instead of just dropping you off the edge. First week 4x, second..6th 2.5x, 6th week...10th week 2x, 10..12th 1.5x landing the player around what? 8M SP in 3 months of play?
Meaning after playing eve for 3 months, you can join a guild of your choosing and have had time to make mistakes with your skill tree and had the opportunity to fix them without being stuck in the tar pit.
Mate, I have some bad news for you.
You know those SP requirements those corps have? They don't really care all that much about the SP. What they actually care about is combat experience. The SP requirement is just a first pass filter; if you want players with 1 years PvP experience, then filtering out people with less than 1 year's SP is logical.
And I will bet you everything I own that virtually all of those "compelling" corps have members with considerably less than the "minimum" number of SP. The reason that those corps are "compelling" is because they composed of people who got out there and started playing as hard as they could from day 1. If you want to join them, dont cry for more meaningless free SP, do that. Get out there and get started. 3 months PvP experience beats the hell out of an extra 5M SP.(Bonus: you get the SP anyway)
well, good for you that you are so hardcore :P
I for one agree that the game needs to be more accessible for new players. In lots of ways. One of em would be raising the double SP/h thing to 3mil or sth. And also making sure that they know they are able to do lots of stuff before they have 15mil SP.
3m SP until the bonus wears off is far overpowered, IMO, it should still be like in Empyrean Age (since this is when I joined I'm going to assume this is when it first happened) where you choose a career and specialization and get roughly 900k from the beginning.
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Daffyd Bowie
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Posted - 2009.10.17 02:49:00 -
[80]
Don't sit in station for 6 months, quit for a year or so. CCP is slowly moving towards what you're hoping for. If you come back in a year you'll be able to join up on what is becoming the fps version of what this game used to be.
CCP can't just jump to the level you want as they'll lose a large number of vets. They have to gradually phase in the changes that are homogenizing and dumbing down this game in order to keep those of us who have been playing for a few years.
They do want people like you because you're where the money is but at the same time they want to keep us around long enough to make leaving too painful for us. It's the natural way all the good games eventually go.
Don't worry, despite all the negative feedback your post is exactly what CCP wants to see. The more people like you suggesting the "ridiculous", the easier it is for them to pass their more gradual changes toward blandness, the longer they suck the cash out of us vets.
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Intangible Mirage
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:08:00 -
[81]
They need to go back to how it was before Apocrypha and have players choose professions and be given skills in that area but at the same time they need to be told they are not 'locked' into a certain path. I also would like to see the return of spending attribute points on player creation so you can make your char unique. I think everyone starts with the same basic setup now? regardless of bloodline or race.
Instead of making it easier they need to give the new player more information so they can make informed decisions on what to train.
On the point of it taking too long to get started: Part of that is the absurd cost of some of the skillbooks like all the advanced learning books which are 4.5 mill apiece. What new player will have that starting out unless they are given it? However I do not support the changes in Dominion on making the exploration related skills easier to get.
Training skills should always really mean something.
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Clearshot6245
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Posted - 2009.10.18 16:51:00 -
[82]
When i had been training for arround a week, i was waiting at a gate with my fleet and i got my first abaddon kill as a team, even a new player can be usefull in a fleet, now 6 months on, i still like the role i played that night, tackler, now a tackler needs arround 3 hours of training from the start and ur there, and in my opinion its the most fun role to play in the fleet
Of course if u playing eve by ur self and trying to teach ur self how to play, u got no chance, so find ur self a corp and not a cearbear mining one, if u havent got the balls for pvp and wardecks then get a pve corp, but u have no idea what ur missing
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Aion Amarra
Minmatar
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.19 08:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Limdood
Well, so far this thread has had complaints of:
-People saying that getting past Cruisers takes 35-70 days to be remotely effective.
-People saying you can't play this game without over 5m SP
-People saying that learning skills are a waste of time
-People saying that new players can't do anything in the game without tremendous ISK buying or another character financially supporting them.
well crap! I must have been doing it wrong all this time! I mean, i'm a 3 1/2 month old character with half of my basic learning skills at 5, and most of my advanced learning skills at 4 (and very happy that i can use those skills to control the speed at which i "level"). I started on my own, haven't used RL money to buy in-game money, haven't been funded by another character, and withing 2.5-3 months, i was flying Battleships in level 4 missions with no problems.
to all of those people who were complaining, I apologize most sincerely for playing incorrectly, and will proceed to think that i can't do anything cuz i don't yet have 20m SP yet....i might as well sit in a station and train instead of playing the game, earning loads of ISK in my self funded battleship with mostly T2/faction fittings.
You, good sir, are exactly the sort of person that Eve is aimed towards. (Despite all the added mechanical help newbies have been getting more recently.) The OP, however, is not. Eve is admittedly a game that kinda requires an older player to take a newbie by the hand and walk him through the early bits (for most newbies, that is, there are exceptions (*coughINNOMINATENIGHTMAREcough*)), but they've been trying to work on the new player experience with every expansion. I figure you gotta give CCP points for at least trying. Dominion will add another two tutorial lines. Let's hope Eris does good work on those. :D
Also, in case this isn't obvious, OP not supported.
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EveFleet Advisor
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Posted - 2009.10.19 10:24:00 -
[84]
errr no..sorry but alot of us had to start from scratch too, if they did that then they would have to give everyone those extra skill points too..
However i do agree CCP need to do something for new players, active people hasnt gone up for a long time, even with the massive advertising. But really that would mean changing the whole mechanics of the game.
Personally they need to reward more, instead of this feeble bounties etc. They want people to play for longer, but not much good if they cant even get them to stay in the first place.
With all the advertising I dont think CCP want this to be just a niche for the few game anymore so YOU HAVE CHANGE CCP..adapt or just stay where you are..
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.10.20 06:43:00 -
[85]
I'd suggest increasing the accelerated learning cap by about 200k SP every month.
This isn't enough to make new characters overpowered, and you won't be able to keep three characters on an account in permanently accelerated learning.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Wight Boley
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Posted - 2009.10.22 00:37:00 -
[86]
I first tried EVE two or three years ago. Back when you started with the 800k SPs through a career path. No neural remaps yet, at the time, but it was after CCP introduced Bloodlines. So, you had a bunch of Achura Monk characters who min-maxed into the 5-charisma builds. I tried it with a friend of mine, who was into mining, so I did have a fellow player to keep me interested in the game. We both ended up quitting though.
I fired EVE up over the past summer, again with the same friend from two/three years ago. The first thing I made sure I would do this time around was to join a player corporation ASAP. My friend joined the same corporation. But the corporation I joined was primarily a small gang and pirate corp with industrial/mining as an afterthought. My friend has sort of 'quit' right now, while i'm still going strong in the game.
What is the lesson here? Get into a player corporation as soon as possible and participate with the corp. It's not enough just to be in a player corp (see my friend, who has gotten bored of the game once again). If anything, instead of giving new players free SPs, CCP should change the starter tutorials so that they are more clear and concise regarding the importance of player corporations.
In fact, perhaps the first tutorial pages should point players to player corporations.
People have raised the issue of corps requiring SP requirements that take months to fulfill. First of all, the majority of the corps I have found doing this are null sec corps. Which makes sense, because you need to be somewhat self-sufficient by the time you get to null because not all the amenities are available out there. For example, basic skillbooks.
Most corps do not require an explicit number of SPs i've found, though. At most, they just require a basic skillset that can be trained within hours. For example, pirate corps usually require at most that you have the skills to use a frigate with point for tackling. Mission corps sometimes require that you can salvage, so you can tag along as a salvager on L4s instead of running a bunch of L1s solo, etc.
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Caligon
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:43:00 -
[87]
We only really have to problems
1) Other players telling new players they are worthless until they have 20m sp
2) Other players telling new players to do nothing but train learning skills when they start out
^^^
This , the only anoying thing about low sp is when having
to solo pvp against a high sp T2 -pimp my ship -
Then you get ****d.
Playing this game now for 3 months or so, low sp on 3 accounts,
having a blast with it, learning new stuff every day.
Nothing like having every so odd days a new shiny toy to play with.
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:12:00 -
[88]
don't let the door hit you on the way out
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oolk
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Posted - 2009.10.23 16:56:00 -
[89]
Shame the new players are not going to enjoy waking up at night to switch a skill...it was the best part!
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.10.23 20:26:00 -
[90]
no they don't need 5-10mil sp :D you got to be kidding...
however learning "curve" is pretty horrible in eve. you fly kestrel for like what, a week or maybe few days then you got a cruiser, then battleship in a month?... then uhm... yeah you don't really need anything else. What I mean is that t1 frigs are pretty useless very fast... it's not about giving more sp at start it's kinda relative nuclear physics or something..
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.24 06:39:00 -
[91]
no, not really, not at all.
min maxing will just get you killed.
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Emma Royd
Caldari
Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2009.10.28 18:36:00 -
[92]
Failpost is fail
I've been playing this game for 3 years and have only fairly recently topped 50m skillpoints, to give a new player 5-10m skill points would be a kick in the teeth for older players who have invested time and money in the game.
I started nearly all my chars on the old 9,000 (I think) sp's and built up from there.
They've messed around with more skill points for noobies before, and stopped it, now they've got double training speed for a bit.
Life is rewarding for those with patience, for those who can't be 4r$ed to wait then WOW is waiting.
Eve has got a Steep learning curve which is good since it sorts the wheat from the chaff, those with the patience to stick with the game are better than the omygodzinturnetspaceships to fly type player who wants everything NOW!! (think of the L5 days on the test server where people just got giddy and shot at anything undocking from the station)
If your that way out and want to sit in station to train for 6 months, thank you for helping to fund the game I play and by not creating as much lag by flying your inturnetspaceships around inconveniencing the rest of the playerbase.
+_+
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity |
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