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xxxak
Caldari
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:05:00 -
[1]
Why don't we see more Gallente recons? With the speed nerf and the web uber nerf, it seems that a 20km scram is now the uber weapon. Why don't I see more flying around?
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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:14:00 -
[2]
Because the speed nerf is far from enough to make them useful. At 20km, they're in range of most close range weapon systems, and they aren't built to take the pounding that those types of weapons can dish out.
Remote Sensor Dampeners still suck, too. It takes 3 bonused RSDs to make an appreciable impact on a target, which is just too much. If it takes all 3 E-war modules to make a difference, that's not a force multiplier, that's just a waste.
A tech 1 frigate with an afterburner and a scram does almost as well as a Gallente recon, and at 1/100th the price.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:14:00 -
[3]
Because they're slow(ish), and have absolutely no defense against anything that gets within 15km.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:27:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: xxxak
Why don't we see more Gallente recons? With the speed nerf and the web uber nerf, it seems that a 20km scram is now the uber weapon. Why don't I see more flying around?
They are slow, have a tissue-paper tank, and cannot realistically use ewar for defense due to the sad state of damps currently. They also have severe cap issues.
Lach/Arazu damp bonus could use a boost (to make damps worth fitting again), and the ships could use some general love (a bit more speed/agility, more cap).
That said, I do like flying the Lachesis. Maybe I'm masochistic.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:30:00 -
[5]
My corp mate uses his Arazu with a lot of success. 40km disruption and friends in other ships makes for fun. Arazu also makes an ok podding ship.
But its lost some of its old glory, somewhat due to low dps from rails I think. Imo, non caldari sniper ships deal poor dps with rails.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Intigo
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:38:00 -
[6]
They aren't as bad as people make it out to be, people just need to play to their strengths a little more. Throw a faction scrambler (close range) on it and get an Interdiction bonus in your gang and you've got some scary MWD-disabling range on there.
Don't fit any damps at all and just go for a tackling beast with a shield tank and possibly a single SB.
Or utilize the damps to their full potential and fly with a Curse + something high DPS at range (Zealot?) and go gank some ratters.
They are just overshadowed by common tacklers (Interceptors) in most gangs. And good Arazu pilots are very rare.
___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:44:00 -
[7]
An excellent question. 20km point is awesome. And yet I still see people trying to fit loldamp arazus with no tank.
Might have something to do with scram and point being their only significant offense. They can't even pop frigates like a rapier. Also the split weapons on the lachesis is horrid.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
XFreedomX
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
They can't even pop frigates like a rapier. Also the split weapons on the lachesis is horrid.
Huggin has split weapon system also. Scram reduce speed more then web. 7 mid slot allow gallente recon to fit webs/scram and tank.
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Caius Severus
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Posted - 2009.09.28 09:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Intigo
They aren't as bad as people make it out to be, people just need to play to their strengths a little more. Throw a faction scrambler (close range) on it and get an Interdiction bonus in your gang and you've got some scary MWD-disabling range on there.
Don't fit any damps at all and just go for a tackling beast with a shield tank and possibly a single SB.
Or utilize the damps to their full potential and fly with a Curse + something high DPS at range (Zealot?) and go gank some ratters.
They are just overshadowed by common tacklers (Interceptors) in most gangs. And good Arazu pilots are very rare.
This.
I like flying my arazu, but you have to be careful and know what it can and cannot do.
I usually fit a disruptor and scram, with the scram mainly to keep people from mwding inside damp range, although with a faction scram you can get decent range. 100km max point range is also lol when people think they are safe but suddenly find they can't warp.
Damps really are underpowered on this ship, especially when you compare the bonuses the falcon gets (lol 30% per level on the most powerful ewar in the game  ).
I don't fly lachesis all that much because the arazu does pretty much the same thing but can warp cloaked.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.09.28 14:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: XFreedomX
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
They can't even pop frigates like a rapier. Also the split weapons on the lachesis is horrid.
Huggin has split weapon system also. Scram reduce speed more then web. 7 mid slot allow gallente recon to fit webs/scram and tank.
I'm pretty sure the thread title said gallente recons. Minnie ones need a bit of a buff too, but this is not the place for it.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.28 14:42:00 -
[11]
I fly both the Lach and Arazu pretty often. They aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be when discussing them here on the forums but they still have their issues. They have very narrow roles and I tend only to break them out when the specific situation calls for it (having to point from long range). Additionally, it is a bit insane how poorly they handle and how bad their cap is. My Arazu with a 1600mm plate flies like a 70's Buick with concrete blocks where the tires should be and is pretty much a sitting duck if I don't make sure I'm aligned to warp out when the fight starts. My Lachesis runs out of cap if I have to run the MWD for longer than 10 seconds (even with cap relays in the lows).
In other words, they have some serious issues but when used against specific targets or to nab mission runners who are far off the center of their mission, they do their job splendidly.
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The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
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Posted - 2009.09.28 14:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Intigo
They aren't as bad as people make it out to be, people just need to play to their strengths a little more. Throw a faction scrambler (close range) on it and get an Interdiction bonus in your gang and you've got some scary MWD-disabling range on there.
Don't fit any damps at all and just go for a tackling beast with a shield tank and possibly a single SB.
Or utilize the damps to their full potential and fly with a Curse + something high DPS at range (Zealot?) and go gank some ratters.
They are just overshadowed by common tacklers (Interceptors) in most gangs. And good Arazu pilots are very rare.
As someone who can fly a Claymore, with pretty good bonus's (but doesn't usually) how much better does it make the Arazu? What sort of range do you get with faction scram plus mindlinked inderdiction maneuvers? Does it make Arazu competitive with rapier or is rapier still preferred?
~~~
[ 2009.02.05 09:37:43 ] Louis Trenker > - Who's ship is this?- It's a Titan baby.- Who's Titan is this?- BoB's.- Who's BoB?- BoB's dead baby! BoB's dead!
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: xxxak
Why don't we see more Gallente recons? With the speed nerf and the web uber nerf, it seems that a 20km scram is now the uber weapon. Why don't I see more flying around?
Yes, those Gallente recons are ok, but all other races' recons are way better / more useful. The scram bonus only makes sense when there is no bubble around and if you have no other recon in range of 24km. So if you want to bring a good ship in a gang / fleet, do not bring a Gallentean.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Caius Severus
I don't fly lachesis all that much because the arazu does pretty much the same thing but can warp cloaked.
Well, depends. I actually prefer the Lach in many cases, because of
a) superior sensor res
b) one more midslot
Of course, everything depends on what you want to do and where you want to do it.
...and yes, the damp bonus is mostly a joke. Rook gets a 100% bonus to ECM strength (with ECM being by far the most powerful form of ewar in the game). And it gets an ECM range bonus. And it gets a cap use bonus.
Lach/Arazu get a +25% damp strength bonus, total (and damps are well below ECM in general power, to boot). No range bonus, no nothing.
It's sad.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:29:00 -
[15]
I used to be really upset with damp changes but I've done a little adapting. I find myself using my arazu mostly only for small gang roams (me n like 5 other guys) out in 0.0 looking for other small engagements or ratters. After I lost an arazu with a 1600mm plate I decided to try a shield buffered variant and have had much success with it as it gets around much better. Really what has happened to the arazu is that it makes a great gang support ship that can add a lot of tackle strength.
My fit is like this:
[Arazu, LSE]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Power Diagnostic System II
Signal Amplifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Large Shield Extender II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Valkyrie II x4
Agile enough to GTFO, disrupts at range, disables MWD's and if you're good with your scripts you can add help with inhibiting enemy ships. I'm quite pleased with it.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Borasatar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:57:00 -
[16]
I fly a setup similar to that one (post just above this) but without dampeners in a small gang... haven't had any complaints yet.
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Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
I used to be really upset with damp changes but I've done a little adapting. I find myself using my arazu mostly only for small gang roams (me n like 5 other guys) out in 0.0 looking for other small engagements or ratters. After I lost an arazu with a 1600mm plate I decided to try a shield buffered variant and have had much success with it as it gets around much better. Really what has happened to the arazu is that it makes a great gang support ship that can add a lot of tackle strength.
My fit is like this:
[Arazu, LSE]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Power Diagnostic System II
Signal Amplifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Large Shield Extender II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Valkyrie II x4
Agile enough to GTFO, disrupts at range, disables MWD's and if you're good with your scripts you can add help with inhibiting enemy ships. I'm quite pleased with it.
How do you not run out of cap in like 10 seconds in that thing? :) I find it almost mandatory to fit a cap booster in the mids just to keep the damps/mwd running long enough to actually be useful during a fight.
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The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:15:00 -
[18]
well that's assuming i HAVE to run everything all at once, in real combat i only need 1-3 MWD cycles to get to the range i want (it handles quite nicely). Frequently I'm just using the guns, damps, and disruptor which doesn't take much cap at all.
The scram is there to if there are multiple targets that need tackling. As long as you can micro manage your mods its not to bad. I was in a 6 minute engagement last night and I wasn't below 30% cap at any time. I had to warp out once, but warping it is better than getting dead ^^ Fight was 12 vs 6 I think, we had a few frigs and hacs, 6 were bs/bc/hacs so it was quite fun 
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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W0wbagger
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: xxxak
Why don't we see more Gallente recons? With the speed nerf and the web uber nerf, it seems that a 20km scram is now the uber weapon. Why don't I see more flying around?
because they (arazu) can cloak? :P
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:21:00 -
[20]
I'm still flying around in my first Arazu... when I fly it. It's named in honor of Dark Elf. I really don't look forward to the day I lose it.
Arazu
2 250mm Rail II (Iridium), Covops Cloak, Covert Cyno Gen (used to be a med unstable neut)
10mn MWD II, LSE II, 3 Phased Muon Damps, Domi Disruptor
3 Overdrive II, CPR II
2 Damp Rigs
4 Hammerhead II
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:23:00 -
[21]
wouldn't want to derail, but does that arazu see much use with the black ops? Or what is the use of the cov ops cyno gen?
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
wouldn't want to derail, but does that arazu see much use with the black ops? Or what is the use of the cov ops cyno gen?
NO NO USE AT ALL NOTHING TO SEE HERE!
Fakeedit: I have a pair of blackops pilots.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:35:00 -
[23]
Falcon wishes it was as useful as the Arazu for BO... 
Damps come with scripts you know, and if a BS takes more than 1 min to lock a frig, say a SB, it won't kill anything, cause it is dead.
BO rocks
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.09.28 18:02:00 -
[24]
for busting war targets missions i hardly ever use anything else unless we somehow know for a FACT the target is near the warp in. a fast frig is a good chance, but you overload and have a command ship pilot with interdiction plus implant running and youll get that guy even if he is kiting. and have him damped to under 30k, so you can move up and turn off overload. the arazu is great, but damps DO need to be better.
if it takes 3 bonused SDs to take a bs down to 30k targeting range thats a problem. it can hardly run 3 SDs and 2 points with med rails on. throw in speed mod (mwd for outside missions) as needed and youll need to micromanage that. its not a useless ship, but it could stand to be better.
the rapier as well could use a strength bonus. hell, i would be fine if they gave the combat recons the bonus to strength as a balance to no cov ops cloak. seems fair to me. i find very little incentive to use a combat recon except the fact that it has a spare mid for a much loved cap booster so i can run mwd more often. once in awhile, i do need to. curse/pilgrim are great, probobly the only recons id say are balanced to each other. do you want cloak or range? the rook and falcon have some differences, enough to be acceptable.
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Hola, esta forum es ingles solamente.
This forum is English only. Welcome to my lock. Now please, zip your pants. I don't need a show.
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El Mauru
Amarr
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.28 19:13:00 -
[25]
I don't really know what you guys are smoking- but Arazus are probably the most popular recons right now for blackopsing and roaming gangs. Seeing more of them than falcons these days actually.
Blarazu = win.
-
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Lexa Hellfury
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Arazu
2 250mm Rail II (Iridium), Covops Cloak, Covert Cyno Gen (used to be a med unstable neut)
10mn MWD II, LSE II, 3 Phased Muon Damps, Domi Disruptor
3 Overdrive II, CPR II
2 Damp Rigs
4 Hammerhead II
I would fix your lows to be less...stacking penalized. I would also fit a neut for frig defense.
Originally by: RedSplat
The Forum moderation Software known as Mitnal became self aware. CCP had no choice but to shut it down.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lexa Hellfury
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Arazu
2 250mm Rail II (Iridium), Covops Cloak, Covert Cyno Gen (used to be a med unstable neut)
10mn MWD II, LSE II, 3 Phased Muon Damps, Domi Disruptor
3 Overdrive II, CPR II
2 Damp Rigs
4 Hammerhead II
I would fix your lows to be less...stacking penalized. I would also fit a neut for frig defense.
Comments:
- This is a *very* old Arazu, and I haven't bothered to refit it extensively. ;-)
- Overdrives are better for cloaked speed than Nanos. Yes, this is important.
- Fitting frig defense (neut) means I'm down to 1 gun, and that's 100% unacceptable. The Covops cyno really kicks me in the nuts for this.
I've often considered switching the lows to 2 nanos, DC, CPR but I just haven't done it. I'm not real eager to lose the speed from 3 overdrives, nor the hp from the nanos. Someday, maybe.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.28 21:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: El Mauru
I don't really know what you guys are smoking- but Arazus are probably the most popular recons right now for blackopsing and roaming gangs. Seeing more of them than falcons these days actually.
Blarazu = win.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing to see here. Move a long.
/me puts up police tape.
--
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.28 22:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: xxxak
Why don't we see more Gallente recons? With the speed nerf and the web uber nerf, it seems that a 20km scram is now the uber weapon. Why don't I see more flying around?
Because people are tragically stupid, and I'm happy this is the situation.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.09.28 23:52:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mire Stoude on 28/09/2009 23:53:22
I shield tanked my Arazu for lowsec gate tanking/tackling... but I just feel dirty flying it. I liked my scram lach (it can do some pretty decent DPS). But as others have said, they are paper thin.
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